MP Chandra Arya wants to tax Canadians abroad!

[JM_]

2 hours ago, BPA said:

So what is a solution for an example like this...

 

I have an Uncle who passed away in February.   My Aunt has been living in Canada for over 30 years.  Worked and paid taxes.  However, she doesn't want to/can't live by herself nor live in an old folks home.  So she is going to live with her son who works abroad. 

 

So for 30 years she paid into the system.  She will no longer get any old age pensions, etc when she moves out of the country.   So what happens now???

this is where the actuarial calculations can come into it. We can figure out the numbers, some minimum amount of time worked where you're covered. Clearly she's paid her dues and should be considered a resident if she needs to come back for health care at some point. 

 

This doesn't seem like a great solution tho, because if she needs some kind of major care issue abroad thats going to be incredibly expensive. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Jimmy McGill

[BPA]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

this is where the actuarial calculations can come into it. We can figure out the numbers, some minimum amount of time worked where you're covered. Clearly she's paid her dues and should be considered a resident if she needs to come back for health care at some point. 

 

This doesn't seem like a great solution tho, because if she needs some kind of major care issue abroad thats going to be incredibly expensive. 

So for the minuscule amount of people that this affects (incoming and outgoing) is it worth it to increase legislation/tracking/Government oversight/management/etc to govern this?

 

What would be the cost/benefit ratio compared to bloating the Government even more?

 

If it can substantially bring in more money than it costs to run a program/office, etc; then I'm for the laws to be changed.  If not and/or costs more, then why bother??  Oh right, cuz it's fair.

[JM_]

Just now, BPA said:

So for the minuscule amount of people that this affects (incoming and outgoing) is it worth it to increase legislation/tracking/Government oversight/management/etc to govern this?

 

What would be the cost/benefit ratio compared to bloating the Government even more?

 

If it can substantially bring in more money than it costs to run a program/office, etc; then I'm for the laws to be changed.  If not and/or costs more, then why bother??  Oh right, cuz it's fair.

sometimes people like to close loop holes on principle, and also to prevent problems. 

 

Birth tourism e.g., might really come back to bite Canada hard. And as a 'plan b' for the families of the kids its actually pretty insulting to people that actually make a home in Canada. 

 

I don't know the cost/benefit specifically, but I really doubt it would be hard to manage. Figure out a fair number, probably something in the $500 to 1,000 per year range and pay it via your CRA account. If you check a box that you want to opt out, then thats that. This doesn't need to be difficult. 

 

 

[Fan since 82]

On 5/10/2020 at 11:00 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

yeah its not an unusual concept. If you retain Canadian residency you have to pay it. 

 

Its an interesting question, if you're an ex-pat should you have to pay something to maintain your citizenship? 

No. As an expat you don't get any benefits of being a citizen. Can't vote, aren't covered by Canadian healthcare...

[JM_]

Just now, Fan since 82 said:

No. As an expat you don't get any benefits of being a citizen. Can't vote, aren't covered by Canadian healthcare...

but you do, you do get to come back, and depending on the province hook back into the system after a year. Thats a nice benefit. 

 

 

[Fan since 82]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

but you do, you do get to come back, and depending on the province hook back into the system after a year. Thats a nice benefit. 

 

 

Yes but when I come back for a holiday I'm not covered even though I am a citizen (I'm not complaining about this). As a citizen yes I can come back and once I take up residency then I get the benefits, but while I'm away I don't have any of the benefits. 

[JM_]

Just now, Fan since 82 said:

Yes but when I come back for a holiday I'm not covered even though I am a citizen (I'm not complaining about this). As a citizen yes I can come back and once I take up residency then I get the benefits, but while I'm away I don't have any of the benefits. 

I guess thats the question - should that right cost you something? Its clearly very valuable depending on your situation. 

[Fan since 82]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess thats the question - should that right cost you something? Its clearly very valuable depending on your situation. 

Personally I don't think so, but I've paid my share of taxes when I was a resident. Your right of citizenship comes as a result of where you were born or naturalized. For me this is personal, but even if it wasn't I think I would have the same opinion. 

[BPA]

29 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

sometimes people like to close loop holes on principle, and also to prevent problems. 

 

Birth tourism e.g., might really come back to bite Canada hard. And as a 'plan b' for the families of the kids its actually pretty insulting to people that actually make a home in Canada. 

 

I don't know the cost/benefit specifically, but I really doubt it would be hard to manage. Figure out a fair number, probably something in the $500 to 1,000 per year range and pay it via your CRA account. If you check a box that you want to opt out, then thats that. This doesn't need to be difficult. 

 

 

Somehow I doubt it will be that simple.  It will more than likely add a few more bodies to the Government payroll.  Possibly a new department within CRA.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Fan since 82 said:

Personally I don't think so, but I've paid my share of taxes when I was a resident. Your right of citizenship comes as a result of where you were born or naturalized. For me this is personal, but even if it wasn't I think I would have the same opinion. 

But you did at least contribute. I have a brother who moved his family to Australia, when his son was 3. I don't think my nephew should be able to move back here at say 65 having never paid into the system and get potentially 100s of thousands in care costs if he's never put anything in. Seems like a loophole to me. 

 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, BPA said:

Somehow I doubt it will be that simple.  It will more than likely add a few more bodies to the Government payroll.  Possibly a new department within CRA.

no you'd catch everyone that way, unless they were here illegally. 

 

No one likes it when loopholes are abused. I get that people say, we'll its the systems fault not mine, but ethically? nah, that doesn't cut it. You know if you're scamming or not. 

[Fan since 82]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

But you did at least contribute. I have a brother who moved his family to Australia, when his son was 3. I don't think my nephew should be able to move back here at say 65 having never paid into the system and get potentially 100s of thousands in care costs if he's never put anything in. Seems like a loophole to me. 

 

Yes I would agree that sort of scenario should be looked at closely. But saying that, that's my kids too. When we left Canada my kids were 4 and 2, and we've had another after we moved. My oldest is in Canada now going to BCIT as a resident ie not an international student. My other one who was born in Canada wants to move back too at some point, but my youngest wants to live here in the UK.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Fan since 82 said:

Yes I would agree that sort of scenario should be looked at closely. But saying that, that's my kids too. When we left Canada my kids were 4 and 2, and we've had another after we moved. My oldest is in Canada now going to BCIT as a resident ie not an international student. My other one who was born in Canada wants to move back too at some point, but my youngest wants to live here in the UK.

its a tough question. I don't really have an answer other than some nominal payment of some sort. 

 

I do think the idea of some sort of Commonwealth passport is a neat idea though, that way with all the additional movement and freedom it might not have to be an issue, we'd all be able to move between commonwealth countries and not worry about it.

 

https://www.canzukinternational.com/frequently-asked-questions

 

[24K PureCool]

54 minutes ago, Fan since 82 said:

No. As an expat you don't get any benefits of being a citizen. Can't vote, aren't covered by Canadian healthcare...

Well technically you can vote in the federal election. Heck I did it while as a student in the US.

[The Lock]

23 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its a tough question. I don't really have an answer other than some nominal payment of some sort. 

 

I do think the idea of some sort of Commonwealth passport is a neat idea though, that way with all the additional movement and freedom it might not have to be an issue, we'd all be able to move between commonwealth countries and not worry about it.

 

https://www.canzukinternational.com/frequently-asked-questions

 

Have to agree with this, especially with how the world is getting more and more connected. I had an online girlfriend from the UK about 4 years ago and that would have certainly made things nice.

[24K PureCool]

19 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Have to agree with this, especially with how the world is getting more and more connected. I had an online girlfriend from the UK about 4 years ago and that would have certainly made things nice.

Might actually get some traction with Brexit. No more EU factor to consider there in Britain. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, BPA said:

There are a lot of loopholes and things not fair.

 

What about longshoremen can claim EI when they make lots of $$ during the fishing season?

 

What about able bodied people collecting welfare checks?

 

What about criminals getting reduced sentences?

 

What about....

 

Life is unfair.  If Life was fair, then it'll be always sunshine and rainbows. 

 

Don't like the law, then get it changed.

That's what this conversation's about, getting the law changed. 

[CBH1926]

5 hours ago, BPA said:

So what is a solution for an example like this...

 

I have an Uncle who passed away in February.   My Aunt has been living in Canada for over 30 years.  Worked and paid taxes.  However, she doesn't want to/can't live by herself nor live in an old folks home.  So she is going to live with her son who works abroad. 

 

So for 30 years she paid into the system.  She will no longer get any old age pensions, etc when she moves out of the country.   So what happens now???

How does she not qualify?
 

If you are living outside Canada, you must:

• be 65 years old or older
• have been a Canadian citizen or a legal resident of Canada on the day before you left Canada, and
• have resided in Canada for at least 20 years since the age of 18

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/old-age-security/eligibility.html

[Ballisticsports.]

3 hours ago, Fan since 82 said:

Yes but when I come back for a holiday I'm not covered even though I am a citizen (I'm not complaining about this). As a citizen yes I can come back and once I take up residency then I get the benefits, but while I'm away I don't have any of the benefits. 

When I travel abroad on a holiday

I have to get life insurance

 

You get to come back to this country and take up residence anytime

 

If i buy in the USA, I can only stay 6 months, and need life insurance and know and accept that

I bought a place in Osoyoos to visit instead

[BPA]

2 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

How does she not qualify?
 

If you are living outside Canada, you must:

• be 65 years old or older
• have been a Canadian citizen or a legal resident of Canada on the day before you left Canada, and
• have resided in Canada for at least 20 years since the age of 18

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/old-age-security/eligibility.html

Thx.

 

Good to know.  I'll pass the info to my cousin.