[Official] NHL Return To Play Thread (24 team play off, 15 team draft lottery)

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Exactly.

 

Without a vote by the players it means nothing.

 

The players may decide they want both hubs to be in Canada based on what’s happening in the states.

A lot of NHLers stayed in the US near their teams.  And now a lot have already travelled home (it’s “essential I suppose ha ha”) and are practicing at whatever facilities are close to their teams.  Are we talking rioting or Covid or both?  Makes sense to me to get out ... but some European players spent their Covid time in places like Florida (and don’t play in Miami or Tampa).   Others stayed at their places in PIT, COL or wherever, most have come home or are soon on the way.     One thing is for sure they want a hub city in the East and they want a hub city in the West, 3 Canadian cities and 7 US ones are being considered.  The players themselves have already agreed to the format,  it’s understandable that Minnesota is probably out.  Think Columbus, PIT or TO are the likely targets of the 10 overall cities named as possible hubs in the East. 

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, Tracksuit said:

You’d think you’d need to have two time zones to accommodate the Prime TV times.For the fans. 

toronto is the self proclaimed Center if the universe so that’s no surprise  and Vegas is buttmans latest pet project so. 

the travel excuse will be non existent this summer but that’s if they actually resume play and I for one an doubtful. 

Yes they want one city in the west and one in the east. 

[alt kilgore]

On 6/13/2020 at 2:00 PM, DeNiro said:

My guess is it comes down to Vegas and L.A.

 

Its all about the families at this point. Where do they want to spend their summer “vacation”?

 

Vancouver is amazing in the summer, but in the bubble scenario there’s a lot more high end resorts for families to enjoy in those cities.

Last I heard, after Horgan went on air to say how hockey player's families could come and "enjoy BC" once they had done the 14 day quarantine,  Bonnie Henry came on the next day to contradict this and say they would all stay in the bubble. Unless things have softened now.

 

Someone explain why, if any foreign, or even BC arriving, family, including from the US of course, can come to visit BC, and isolate for 14 days, and then be able to "enjoy BC", how is it any different, or dangerous, for the families of hockey players to do the same? I don't get it.

 

Shouldn't it be up to the NHL, if they want to take that risk?....that a family member may bring back the virus into the bubble (which is a pretty remote chance based on stats, as long as they practised SD) They would have a lot to lose, so if they are okay with that then......?

 

Why from a strictly pubic health point of view, are the NHL families, following the same rules as every other visitor, MORE of a threat to BC residents than other visitors who clear isolation and go out into the public?

[mll]

30 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Last I heard, after Horgan went on air to say how hockey player's families could come and "enjoy BC" once they had done the 14 day quarantine,  Bonnie Henry came on the next day to contradict this and say they would all stay in the bubble. Unless things have softened now.

 

Someone explain why, if any foreign, or even BC arriving, family, including from the US of course, can come to visit BC, and isolate for 14 days, and then be able to "enjoy BC", how is it any different, or dangerous, for the families of hockey players to do the same? I don't get it.

 

Shouldn't it be up to the NHL, if they want to take that risk?....that a family member may bring back the virus into the bubble (which is a pretty remote chance based on stats, as long as they practised SD) They would have a lot to lose, so if they are okay with that then......?

 

Why from a strictly pubic health point of view, are the NHL families, following the same rules as every other visitor, MORE of a threat to BC residents than other visitors who clear isolation and go out into the public?

ESPN has a different version where families wouldn't even come over.   The NHL wants to keep players' quarantined inside an air tight bubble with no contact with the exterior to preserve the bubble.  If families go in and out of the bubble there's a risk they bring it inside the bubble.  

 

From ESPN:

Officials such as Dr. Bonnie Henry, the provincial health officer for British Columbia, have indicated that players would not have interactions with family members once inside the hub. Players' access to their families is a chief point of negotiation between the NHL and the NHLPA, as the players have yet to approve an actual return to the ice this summer.

 

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, mll said:

ESPN has a different version where families wouldn't even come over.   The NHL wants to keep players' quarantined inside an air tight bubble with no contact with the exterior to preserve the bubble.  If families go in and out of the bubble there's a risk they bring it inside the bubble.  

 

From ESPN:

Officials such as Dr. Bonnie Henry, the provincial health officer for British Columbia, have indicated that players would not have interactions with family members once inside the hub. Players' access to their families is a chief point of negotiation between the NHL and the NHLPA, as the players have yet to approve an actual return to the ice this summer.

 

hopefully they listen to the people who have actually managed to flatten the curve, as opposed to those who have thrown gasoline on the already raging fire.

[alt kilgore]

55 minutes ago, mll said:

ESPN has a different version where families wouldn't even come over.   The NHL wants to keep players' quarantined inside an air tight bubble with no contact with the exterior to preserve the bubble.  If families go in and out of the bubble there's a risk they bring it inside the bubble.  

 

From ESPN:

Officials such as Dr. Bonnie Henry, the provincial health officer for British Columbia, have indicated that players would not have interactions with family members once inside the hub. Players' access to their families is a chief point of negotiation between the NHL and the NHLPA, as the players have yet to approve an actual return to the ice this summer.

 

Yes, it should be the NHLs decision.   I was under the impression it was Dr. Henry shutting it down.

 

If Joe Blow and his wife Jane, and their kids Judd and Josie can enter the country from somewhere else, quarantine for 2 weeks, and go out and "enjoy BC", coming into contact with other BC residents after that, and that is perfectly fine with health officials, what is it about NHL families that make them more dangerous than other families to BC residents or the "curve"?  And players will be tested, so its not like they will catch it from daddy and then go out. The risk is bringing it in and making daddy sick, but that risk is pretty low.   As far as a threat to BC residents, why would those families be treated so much more stringently than other visitors?

 

When its clear players, and families want a place to be able to have some recreation outside the bubble for their own mental health, and that is a "chief point of negotiation" the NHL is pretty strict I guess

Edited June 17, 2020 by kilgore

[mll]

54 minutes ago, stawns said:

hopefully they listen to the people who have actually managed to flatten the curve, as opposed to those who have thrown gasoline on the already raging fire.

It's probably the NHL's proposal.  When they asked cities to bid they most likely had to describe the framework of their protocol.  The cities have to know what they are bidding on, whether it's feasible and meets health standards.  

 

Phase 2 of the NHL's protocol is so restrictive that quite a few players have decided to continue to skate outside of it rather than enter the protocol.   Players who entered the protocol are talking of how the league is doing all their possible to keep players safe.   

They apparently want to do the play-ins in about 8 days.  Would think that families would not be allowed to join - it's pretty much a road trip.  

 

It's probably not going to be feasible to keep players completely isolated for up to 2.5 months though.   Jordie Benn has already declared that he will not respect the bubble.  His fiancée is due end of July and he has no intention of being separated from his family.  

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by mll

[stawns]

13 minutes ago, mll said:

It's probably the NHL's proposal.  When they asked cities to bid they most likely had to describe the framework of their protocol.  The cities have to know what they are bidding on, whether it's feasible and meets health standards.  

 

Phase 2 of the NHL's protocol is so restrictive that quite a few players have decided to continue to skate outside of it rather than enter the protocol.   Players who entered the protocol are talking of how the league is doing all their possible to keep players safe.   

They apparently want to do the play-ins in about 8 days.  Would think that families would not be allowed to join - it's pretty much a road trip.  

 

It's probably not going to be feasible to keep players completely isolated for up to 2.5 months though.   Jordie Benn has already declared that he will not respect the bubble.  His fiancée is due end of July and he has no intention of being separated from his family.  

 

I honestly don't see it happening anyway, so it's probably all much ado about nothing.

[mll]

22 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Yes, it should be the NHLs decision.   I was under the impression it was Dr. Henry shutting it down.

 

If Joe Blow and his wife Jane, and their kids Judd and Josie can enter the country from somewhere else, quarantine for 2 weeks, and go out and "enjoy BC", coming into contact with other BC residents after that, and that is perfectly fine with health officials, what is it about NHL families that make them more dangerous than other families to BC residents or the "curve"?  And players will be tested, so its not like they will catch it from daddy and then go out. The risk is bringing it in and making daddy sick, but that risk is pretty low.   As far as a threat to BC residents, why would those families be treated so much more stringently than other visitors?

 

When its clear players, and families want a place to be able to have some recreation outside the bubble for their own mental health, and that is a "chief point of negotiation" the NHL is pretty strict I guess

My understanding is that it's the NHL that doesn't want families part of the bubble.  They want it as air tight as possible.  

 

Each team can bring 50 people max.  That's still 600 people for the play-ins + all the leagues' staff.  It's hard to imagine bringing families on top of that.  

 

They want the play-ins in 8 days about - pretty much a road trip.  They would then be down to 8 teams.  Still 400 people + league.  Once down to 4 teams (after the 1st round) they would be left with 200 people vs the initial 600.   It's hard to imagine that players would agree to be cut from their families past the play-ins maybe 1st round but not sure if they would accept much beyond.  

 

[IBatch]

20 hours ago, kilgore said:

Last I heard, after Horgan went on air to say how hockey player's families could come and "enjoy BC" once they had done the 14 day quarantine,  Bonnie Henry came on the next day to contradict this and say they would all stay in the bubble. Unless things have softened now.

 

Someone explain why, if any foreign, or even BC arriving, family, including from the US of course, can come to visit BC, and isolate for 14 days, and then be able to "enjoy BC", how is it any different, or dangerous, for the families of hockey players to do the same? I don't get it.

 

Shouldn't it be up to the NHL, if they want to take that risk?....that a family member may bring back the virus into the bubble (which is a pretty remote chance based on stats, as long as they practised SD) They would have a lot to lose, so if they are okay with that then......?

 

Why from a strictly pubic health point of view, are the NHL families, following the same rules as every other visitor, MORE of a threat to BC residents than other visitors who clear isolation and go out into the public?

If the families are in a “bubble” and getting tested daily - I can’t see why they shouldn’t be allowed to visit other friends and family or as was said “enjoy BC” after 14 days of isolation - once their team is out of course...   
 

Everything I’ve read about the safety protocols planned are extensive.   The NHL can’t afford any chance of a player getting Covid during the playoffs it would pretty much scuttle the tournament and the integrity of it as well (say EP got it, or Pastrnak or McDavid)...even one player and it’s a huge problem both for the integrity of the playoffs and for the chances of it continued.  
 

Given the success in Canada so far (in the US 10 states are now getting more cases then ever - including California, Texas and Nevada so that pretty much eliminates them as “hub states”....Dallas, Vegas etc...

 

Strange times for sure.   At this point the municipal, provincial and federal governments in Canada are on board (many players have already travelled back to their cities and are training now) so it appears a green light for the West at least.   Toronto or Columbus have decent odds at getting the green light too.    Whether the NHLPA agrees to it is still a question mark, but given how many players have already returned and spoken about it I’d be surprised if they voted against it.    Protesting likely has something to do with the recent rash of cases in some US states (others are dropping it’s a bit of a yo-yo done there)...

 

Things aren’t that different then Sweden now as far as economies go - and the number of cases in Canada now are much easier traced which is very positive especially given things are re-opening.   I’m pleasantly surprised and do think the odds of this now happening are pretty good.  

Edited June 18, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

18 hours ago, mll said:

My understanding is that it's the NHL that doesn't want families part of the bubble.  They want it as air tight as possible.  

 

Each team can bring 50 people max.  That's still 600 people for the play-ins + all the leagues' staff.  It's hard to imagine bringing families on top of that.  

 

They want the play-ins in 8 days about - pretty much a road trip.  They would then be down to 8 teams.  Still 400 people + league.  Once down to 4 teams (after the 1st round) they would be left with 200 people vs the initial 600.   It's hard to imagine that players would agree to be cut from their families past the play-ins maybe 1st round but not sure if they would accept much beyond.  

 

Players have had some pretty big asks of themselves and their families in the past ... I think given they’ve been paid for services not rendered and that they seem to want to play as well will get them onboard.   A lot of military families have much harder asks of them, heck even thousands of regular folks in Canada who travel in 5-8 week blocks to work up north etc.   Players having kids is definitely a challenge for sure.    Can’t expect them to want to miss that one bit.   They plan kids for the summer on purpose...the ones that don’t would for sure trade a chance at a cup and being back on the ice ... they’ve already agreed to the format right? 

[Dumb Nuck]

10 hours ago, IBatch said:

Players have had some pretty big asks of themselves and their families in the past ... I think given they’ve been paid for services not rendered and that they seem to want to play as well will get them onboard.   A lot of military families have much harder asks of them, heck even thousands of regular folks in Canada who travel in 5-8 week blocks to work up north etc.   Players having kids is definitely a challenge for sure.    Can’t expect them to want to miss that one bit.   They plan kids for the summer on purpose...the ones that don’t would for sure trade a chance at a cup and being back on the ice ... they’ve already agreed to the format right? 

Only 2 teams will go the max away from their families and I’m sure  SCF appearance would be worth it. After 3 weeks 14 teams will be home, for what they get paid they can suck it up, as IBatch says, many families have it far worse, I’d be pretty put off by the players if they stopped the return from happening.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Dumb Nuck

[IBatch]

57 minutes ago, Dumb Nuck said:

Only 2 teams will go the max away from their families and I’m sure  SCF appearance would be worth it. After 3 weeks 14 teams will be home, for what they get paid they can suck it up, as IBatch says, many families have it far worse, I’d be pretty put off by the players if they stopped the return from happening.

Yep.   The league minimum is 700k...which is fine - just that it is still more money then most fans can hope to make without many years of hard work - and with the year everyone has had so far the entertainment value from this tournament would be a welcome distraction.   I really think most players want to play to ... and realize with the times they should step up.  The NHL protocols are extensive and they worked hard to make it as safe as possible.   Kind of puts things into perspective when the average joe in essential services went out every day....and the ones that couldn’t have lost a lot financially.    I appreciate those players that were in on day one putting their time in to get this all rolling. 

[mll]

21 hours ago, IBatch said:

Players have had some pretty big asks of themselves and their families in the past ... I think given they’ve been paid for services not rendered and that they seem to want to play as well will get them onboard.   A lot of military families have much harder asks of them, heck even thousands of regular folks in Canada who travel in 5-8 week blocks to work up north etc.   Players having kids is definitely a challenge for sure.    Can’t expect them to want to miss that one bit.   They plan kids for the summer on purpose...the ones that don’t would for sure trade a chance at a cup and being back on the ice ... they’ve already agreed to the format right? 

 

Players only get paid during the regular season.  The regular season is officially over.  Players are sharing the losses through the 50% split of hockey related revenue (HRR).  They have to return part of their salaries.  The escrow that has been retained over the season is insufficient to cover their share of the losses.

Playoff revenue is part of HRR.  If they don't agree to the extended-season they have to give more money back.

 

Jordie Benn's child is due in the 2nd half of July.  He has already said that he won't miss the birth and won't accept to be kept away from his child and fiancée.  He either has to be allowed out of the bubble to visit them or they have to be part of it.

 

Some players or their families have medical conditions which puts them more at risk of complications and/or lasting effects, others have young kids at home, some have their partners expecting.  Players worked to become NHLers.  The pandemic changed the framework of their job and it's not what they signed up for.  We already had that discussion in the other thread on why some players could be reluctant to return.

 

Players are probably going to be offered the option to opt out.  Friedman in his 31 thoughts:

"The NHL and NHLPA are working on opt-out language for anyone who may feel uncomfortable about playing. But part of their pitch might be that the bubble will be safer than parts of North America. In some places, it looks like social distancing no longer exists."

 

It doesn't seem fair to force players to do something they don't feel comfortable with, and/or having players risking the health of others by breaking the bubble because it's too restrictive.  It's probably also more of a detriment to teams to have players who don't want to be there and/or aren't focused.

 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, mll said:

 

Players only get paid during the regular season.  The regular season is officially over.  Players are sharing the losses through the 50% split of hockey related revenue (HRR).  They have to return part of their salaries.  The escrow that has been retained over the season is insufficient to cover their share of the losses.

Playoff revenue is part of HRR.  If they don't agree to the extended-season they have to give more money back.

 

Jordie Benn's child is due in the 2nd half of July.  He has already said that he won't miss the birth and won't accept to be kept away from his child and fiancée.  He either has to be allowed out of the bubble to visit them or they have to be part of it.

 

Some players or their families have medical conditions which puts them more at risk of complications and/or lasting effects, others have young kids at home, some have their partners expecting.  Players worked to become NHLers.  The pandemic changed the framework of their job and it's not what they signed up for.  We already had that discussion in the other thread on why some players could be reluctant to return.

 

Players are probably going to be offered the option to opt out.  Friedman in his 31 thoughts:

"The NHL and NHLPA are working on opt-out language for anyone who may feel uncomfortable about playing. But part of their pitch might be that the bubble will be safer than parts of North America. In some places, it looks like social distancing no longer exists."

 

It doesn't seem fair to force players to do something they don't feel comfortable with, and/or having players risking the health of others by breaking the bubble because it's too restrictive.  It's probably also more of a detriment to teams to have players who don't want to be there and/or aren't focused.

 

This has nothing to do with what I was taking about but thanks for spending the time to clear up nothing I’m not already aware of.   They are elite athletes that enjoy all the privileges of that lifestyle.   They haven’t made anything close to the sacrifices regular folks have made (they’ve been paid for a full season in advance and haven’t had to deliver on that ... must be nice). 

 

Also your wrong about only been paid during the regular season.  The league has always put some money aside which split evenly by players that actually play in the playoffs and divided up each round.   Recently it’s been around a 4 million dollar pool.  I doubt they need to pay them this year - because again about 200 games less in revenue that they’ve been paid for ...  but wouldn’t be surprised if they do anyways.   Whatever salary issues come up the league is obviously more then willing to get this rolling and it can be dealt with when the time is right.   Like next season.   At least some revenue will come out of it right?  I’m sure the players are very aware of that too.   Better to make some money then constant negative.  A grade two student could figure that out learning arithmetic. 

 

Im glad you feel so much about these guys...I do too but let’s be realistic.   Given the protocols in place and constant testing these guys have a way smaller chance of getting it then the average essential worker (grocery store staff, meat packers etc not even talking about front line staff)...why be so anal about their relatively tiny small sacrifices?  They’ve been home - a lot of them have pretty swank pads / with all the toys and pools and whatever while a lot of regular folks have been stuffed into one or two bedroom apartments.   I can empathize too, and personally feel that the players owe it to us fans to play.  Millionaires ... all of them. 
 

Not sure what the point is your trying to make.  My point was that a lot of them showed up right away, and a lot more are trickling in.  Not hard to see that if it came down to a vote the NHLPA is already in.    In Canada at least ALL government regulations have been cleared, the municipal (hub cities) mentioned all want them there, BC and Alberta have agreed to it - and our Prime Minister announced on Tuesday the federal government approves and its a green light.   Travel is a non-issue (which was one of the big hurdles).   Same with no mandatory isolation (another big hurdle).  Sure a few - not a lot - but a few players might abstain because of family issues.   Big deal.  If that’s the hill you want to die on then go ahead.   I’m sure most essential and non-essential workers would be over the moon to get 10% of the treatment these guys are going to get.  Difference is if they said no thanks then 100 people would be lining up to take their job.   Sure Brisbois or even OJ would be stoked to get some games in instead of Benn (again NOT a big deal).     The league has worked hard on making this work - and it should too.    
 

Edit:  As far as the “opt-out” pitch.  Ha ha.  Read some more articles of what some marquee and average players have been doing during this epidemic.  I hope Laine opts out.  Then he can get shamed and trashed because he’s spent most of his time golfing in Finland.  A lot of players have  left their homes and delivered food or made hospital visits too (good on them too!)  It would make the majority of them complete hypocrites... I can tell you with complete conviction that if this happened 20 years ago not one person would opt out.   Even if they were having a baby.   Times have changed and the generation of players in now (well not Chara ha ha)  needs to grow up and grab a pair, not be scared and maybe do the math.  ONE person gets Covid and it throws a wrench into everything.   You can bet the NHL will do absolutely everything they can to avoid that.    It’s not like they are being asked to go fight a war. Just play some hockey - do their jobs like everyone else is. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by IBatch

[mll]

 

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

This has nothing to do with what I was taking about but thanks for spending the time to clear up nothing I’m not already aware of.   They are elite athletes that enjoy all the privileges of that lifestyle.   They haven’t made anything close to the sacrifices regular folks have made (they’ve been paid for a full season in advance and haven’t had to deliver on that ... must be nice). 

 

Also your wrong about only been paid during the regular season.  The league has always put some money aside which split evenly by players that actually play in the playoffs and divided up each round.   Recently it’s been around a 4 million dollar pool.  I doubt they need to pay them this year - because again about 200 games less in revenue that they’ve been paid for ...  but wouldn’t be surprised if they do anyways.   Whatever salary issues come up the league is obviously more then willing to get this rolling and it can be dealt with when the time is right.   Like next season.   At least some revenue will come out of it right?  I’m sure the players are very aware of that too.   Better to make some money then constant negative.  A grade two student could figure that out learning arithmetic. 

 

Im glad you feel so much about these guys...I do too but let’s be realistic.   Given the protocols in place and constant testing these guys have a way smaller chance of getting it then the average essential worker (grocery store staff, meat packers etc not even talking about front line staff)...why be so anal about their relatively tiny small sacrifices?  They’ve been home - a lot of them have pretty swank pads / with all the toys and pools and whatever while a lot of regular folks have been stuffed into one or two bedroom apartments.   I can empathize too, and personally feel that the players owe it to us fans to play.  Millionaires ... all of them. 
 

Not sure what the point is your trying to make.  My point was that a lot of them showed up right away, and a lot more are trickling in.  Not hard to see that if it came down to a vote the NHLPA is already in.    In Canada at least ALL government regulations have been cleared, the municipal (hub cities) mentioned all want them there, BC and Alberta have agreed to it - and our Prime Minister announced on Tuesday the federal government approves and its a green light.   Travel is a non-issue (which was one of the big hurdles).   Same with no mandatory isolation (another big hurdle).  Sure a few - not a lot - but a few players might abstain because of family issues.   Big deal.  If that’s the hill you want to die on then go ahead.   I’m sure most essential and non-essential workers would be over the moon to get 10% of the treatment these guys are going to get.  Difference is if they said no thanks then 100 people would be lining up to take their job.   Sure Brisbois or even OJ would be stoked to get some games in instead of Benn (again NOT a big deal).     The league has worked hard on making this work - and it should too.    

 

The pool is 16M this year per the CBA.  The NHLPA decides on the distribution key among all participating teams with league approval.

 

Wasn't sharing my thoughts but more taking a neutral view to try and have a complete overview of the situation and why some players might be reluctant to return and decide to opt out.  Opting out wording is being prepared which suggests that some players are considering it.

 

Fwiw given all initial indications I believe that it's probably going to be safer in the NHL bubble than outside and have argued in that direction.  I can accept though that some players won't feel that way.  Some might not want to enter the bubble for personal reasons.  It's apparently going to be very restrictive.

 

Btw Horvat's wife is also due in the 2nd half of July.  He hasn't commented on his plans as far as I know.

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by mll

[mll]

Tampa Bay temporarily closed their training facilities after several players and staff tested positive.

 

[mll]

 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

16 minutes ago, mll said:

 

So how many of the three players testing positive were in this video? 

 

 

[Tre Mac]

So a golfer just tested positive - Supposed to be the one sport recreational activity that you can play while social distancing. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

So how many of the three players testing positive were in this video? 

 

 

PDA Never swim in an marina!  There's moment where a lightning player get's 'pushed' into the water - tsk tsk.

 

https://www.canadianyachting.ca/news-and-events/current/2350-never-swim-in-a-marina-lake-fatalities-highlight-need-for-electrical-safety