[Report] Canucks to part ways with Judd Bracket

[DeNiro]

It’s like people forget that Benning has almost 30 years of experience as a scout. When he compares a player to Datsyuk it’s because he actually scouted him as a prospect. He’s followed players since they were 15/16.

His knowledge on players and scouting is invaluable. To see people suggesting we should have kept Brackett over him is laughable.

 

Do we really believe he can’t identify and mentor another director of amateur scouting?

[theo5789]

45 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

It’s like people forget that Benning has almost 30 years of experience as a scout. When he compares a player to Datsyuk it’s because he actually scouted him as a prospect. He’s followed players since they were 15/16.

His knowledge on players and scouting is invaluable. To see people suggesting we should have kept Brackett over him is laughable.

 

Do we really believe he can’t identify and mentor another director of amateur scouting?

No because Brackett was the chosen one by the hockey gods to be the only true prophet of prospects.

[hammertime]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

It’s like people forget that Benning has almost 30 years of experience as a scout. When he compares a player to Datsyuk it’s because he actually scouted him as a prospect. He’s followed players since they were 15/16.

His knowledge on players and scouting is invaluable. To see people suggesting we should have kept Brackett over him is laughable.

 

Do we really believe he can’t identify and mentor another director of amateur scouting?

Canucks fans have always had an obsession with the guy behind the guy. Auld over Clouts, Schneider over Luongo, Eddie lack over Luongo, and no matter how well Marksrom plays Demko is the chosen one. 

[Canucks Curse]

JBen said Brackett wanted full autonomy for picks 1 and 2 in each draft and wanted full autonomy of opersonnel for scouting.

JBen is GM, scouted x 20 years, JBracket was a part time scout until JBen and TL hired him full time in 2014 and then 2 drafts later made him chief scout. so thats like roughly 5 years of scouting full time... why we want someone with 20 yrs scouting experience and closer to 10 yrs of managerial experience relinquishing 100% control to some one with less than a quarter of his experience- that does not happen in the real world

 

media has the narrative all wrong, after hearing JBen's interview I think Bracket is asking for way too much and stuff he does not deserve, JB implied that he may be taking credit for really more than he has accomplished- listen to sportsnet 650 where he talks about how he has seen "this behaviour" after teams have won a stanley cup and someone wants "a pat on the back,"

 

anyway, i am doubtful our scouting and drafting falls off much. JBen said he thinks the scouting group is stronger than ever.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Canucks Curse

[The Lock]

2 hours ago, DeNiro said:

It’s like people forget that Benning has almost 30 years of experience as a scout. When he compares a player to Datsyuk it’s because he actually scouted him as a prospect. He’s followed players since they were 15/16.

His knowledge on players and scouting is invaluable. To see people suggesting we should have kept Brackett over him is laughable.

 

Do we really believe he can’t identify and mentor another director of amateur scouting?

There's so much that we don't know about who chose who in terms of drafting as well. We have ideas on how good Brackett has been and perhaps some evidence in terms of certain media coverage of some situations, but do we really have anything concrete? Back in the 2000's Buffalo was doing a really good job at the draft and guess what? Benning was in Brackett's position at the time. People seems to forget that. Again, we have the same ideas from those times but nothing concrete.

 

So I think no matter what, we're never going to know the full story in all of this, which make any arguing of this based on "gut feelings" and "assumptions" rather than hard evidence.

[Cup2022]

On 5/29/2020 at 5:38 PM, Darkstar said:

I think we'll see the results of this over the next 2-3 drafts. If the Canucks' picks don't pan out, then we know the impact that Brackett brought upon the team.

 

Benning and Weisbrod's incompetence has led to this team being in cap hell for the next few seasons. The fact that a team that just finished a rebuild is going to struggle to re-sign key players (Toffoli, Tanev, Markstrom) because of the albatross contracts on the team (Sutter, Roussel, Myers, Eriksson, Beagle) is absolutely ridiculous. I really hope they continue to do well in the only positive aspect of the organization (drafting and development). 

Lol you want hell check out leafs next year compared to us

[RecklessReilly]

I’m so sick of this being the hot topic on CDC. Let’s all move on. Bigger fish to fry.

 

 

 

[Ballisticsports.]

25 minutes ago, RecklessReilly said:

I’m so sick of this being the hot topic on CDC. Let’s all move on. Bigger fish to fry.

 

 

 

You could ignore it , rather than adding to it, or deciding for others what to discuss. Best of all, how about starting a new hot topic, Have you noticed not much in the way of sports these days  

[kingofsurrey]

4 hours ago, DeNiro said:

It’s like people forget that Benning has almost 30 years of experience as a scout.

I wish Benning was head scout of the Canucks and not our GM........

[theo5789]

27 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

I wish Benning was head scout of the Canucks and not our GM........

But if there was a different GM, perhaps the new guy would want to implement a new system that isn't as effective as it is now and Benning would have to work under his rules. Having a GM that has put an emphasis on the draft seems to have worked out in terms of boosting our prospect pool. He has hired guys to support him in areas that weren't strengths when he started as a rookie GM and is progressing in those areas (eg trading for half of the top 6 in addition to the drafted prospects at very respectable value, solid RFA signings, debatable UFA work that he won't need to rely on as much when the drafted prospects start to fill in, etc). The team has generally trended up during his time here and they're on the brink of the playoffs this season with one of the youngest rosters in the NHL (and Benning expects 6-7 more young players to crack the roster over the next couple of seasons too).

 

IMO, I'm glad of the work that Benning has put in that should set us up for the next decade or so (hopefully he gets to see it through).

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

8 hours ago, shiznak said:

It was being reported Judd want to take full control of the scouting department (eg: overseeing the draft, combines, evaluation of prospects, etc). Much like what Murray and Timmins are currently doing. They are the ones who run the draft, not the GM. This is what Judd wants. With Benning’s scouting background, he wasn’t willing to let Judd have that kind of power. No one is reporting Judd having power of personnel decisions with the club.

 

Like I said, it isn’t unprecedented for GMs to let their director of scouting run the entire scouting department. Not all GMs have a scouting background.

We must be reading different reports then.

 

From Drance (The Athletic):

 

Quote

As Brackett has now confirmed, the specific items that Brackett wanted in negotiations pertained to autonomy of personnel and process.

 

The club let go of four scouts in the summer of 2019, including Doug Gasper, Dan Palango, Chris McDonald and Paul Gallagher and hired three additional scouts. Brackett is believed to have had input on the incoming hires that replaced those scouts, but the decision the club made to let go of four members of the amateur scouting staff looms large in the wake of Brackett’s pointed comments on Friday about having input on amateur scouting personnel.

 

https://theathletic.com/1845528/2020/05/29/autonomy-and-a-breakdown-in-trust-why-judd-brackett-is-leaving-the-canucks/

 

EDIT: Even in Judd’s own words:

 

”Unfortunately an agreement on the level of input going forward with regard to staff personnel and process could not be reached”

 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

[Drakrami]

15 hours ago, peaches5 said:

Benning worked his ass off to get himself in a position to be GM of a hockey team and Bracket wanted to skip all the work in the trenches and be the man making the decisions. At least the draft decisions. No matter how good that person is you can't allow insubordination. There has to be a chain of command. Like Benning said I don't think there is going to be an NHL team that is going to give Bracket what he wants.. unless he isn't a scout but assistant GM or GM.

 

I am not huge Benning fan either but you can't allow what Bracket tried to do. It's not good leadership to hand over autonomy to someone in a department that you yourself came from. It shows weakness and will be your undoing especially if Bracket in a few years went to Aquilini and said make me GM or I am leaving look at the drafting I did. This was all me.

You are not reading the whole story. What I have been reading is that Benning/Weisbrod has been eating away at Brackett's authority since last summer by firing and hiring lower level scouts. Brackett just wants to build on the excellent results he has already achieved, and claw back the authority he had been stolen from. 

 

Don't know what the true story is, but from media reports, this is what I am understanding. 

[spook007]

4 hours ago, The Lock said:

There's so much that we don't know about who chose who in terms of drafting as well. We have ideas on how good Brackett has been and perhaps some evidence in terms of certain media coverage of some situations, but do we really have anything concrete? Back in the 2000's Buffalo was doing a really good job at the draft and guess what? Benning was in Brackett's position at the time. People seems to forget that. Again, we have the same ideas from those times but nothing concrete.

 

So I think no matter what, we're never going to know the full story in all of this, which make any arguing of this based on "gut feelings" and "assumptions" rather than hard evidence.

Exactly.... 

Edited May 31, 2020 by spook007

[UFCanuck]

I imagine Benning farting in Brackets face and impersonating Donald Trump’s “You’re fired” when Judd asks for Autonomy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually I think that’s exactly what happened.

[Pete M]

The head of amateur scouting is a spokesperson for his department when it's draft time. 

The spokesperson (Bracket) is leaving, but our scouting staff is still there with JB being the man in charge....they are shuffling deck chairs, somewhat.

 

The later rounds and the late first round is where the scout department shows its worth...looking at later rounds from past drafts, it seems that the European and Quebec leagues were where some gems were found. 

 

What's just as important as scouting is "Player Development" and opportunity for young players to have their chance when they're ready.

Player Development is where the process makes the scouting staff look good, if player development does their job well. It's all connected.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Pete M

[JM_]

27 minutes ago, Pete M said:

The head of amateur scouting is a spokesperson for his department when it's draft time. 

The spokesperson (Bracket) is leaving, but our scouting staff is still there with JB being the man in charge....they are shuffling deck chairs, somewhat.

 

The later rounds and the late first round is where the scout department shows its worth...looking at later rounds from past drafts, it seems that the European and Quebec leagues were where some gems were found. 

 

What's just as important as scouting is "Player Development" and opportunity for young players to have their chance when they're ready.

Player Development is where the process makes the scouting staff look good, if player development does their job well. It's all connected.

I can't wait for the JD Burke article about how we missed the franchise changing player in the 7th round due to this. 

[JM_]

One of the more interesting things I heard this week out of Benning is that teams who haven't won't he cup shouldn't have people trying to take too much credit for where a team is at. Its a point worth thinking about. He didn't come right out and directly say thats what Brackett was doing but its hard not think that may have been part of this and also really fuelled by the media and some fan views on him as the Uber-Scout. 

[Crabcakes]

34 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

One of the more interesting things I heard this week out of Benning is that teams who haven't won't he cup shouldn't have people trying to take too much credit for where a team is at. Its a point worth thinking about. He didn't come right out and directly say thats what Brackett was doing but its hard not think that may have been part of this and also really fuelled by the media and some fan views on him as the Uber-Scout. 

Stating the obvious here but Benning has a ring with Boston.  So does Weisbrod.

[JM_]

21 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Stating the obvious here but Benning has a ring with Boston.  So does Weisbrod.

if there's less drama going on within the organization then thats already a good outcome of this imo. The fluff on twitter means nothing. 

[Crabcakes]

This narrative of Benning gutting the scouting department in the summer of 2019 is way overblown.  I think the Drance quote above by @SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME is misleading.  Benning also did a restructure of the scouting department in 2017.  I would say that this is part of an ongoing evaluation that is a normal part of team building.

 

According to the Province, MacDonald left the club to pursue a position with another club and wasn't let go.  Gasper, Palagno and Gallagher were let go as Benning decided to restructure the department.  According to Canucks Army, MacDonald, Palagno and Gallagher were scouting the OHL.

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/canucks-lose-three-from-amateur-scouting-staff

 

https://canucksarmy.com/2019/07/06/canucks-make-changes-to-amateur-scouting-staff/

 

Further, from a Sept 11, 2019 press release, the Canucks outlined the changes that were made to the scouting department  

 

Todd Harvey and Derek Richard originally joined Vancouver's staff in 2017 and take on new roles and additional responsibilities as Amateur Scouts.

Troy Ward, Phil Golding and Martin Bakula join the club as Amateur Scouts. Ward recently held Head Coaching roles with the WHL Vancouver Giants and Abbotsford Heat. Golding served the past two seasons as Assistant General Manager of the Guelph Storm (OHL). Bakula joins from the Arizona Coyotes, where he spent the past two seasons as a European Scout.

Patrik Jonsson, Vincent Montalbano and Brandon Benning take on new assignments among the Amateur Scouting staff. Pat Conacher moves to the Amateur staff after five seasons as Director, Hockey Operations with Utica.

Ryan Biech joins as Video Analyst, Hockey Analytics and will report to Senior Director, Hockey Operations and Analytics, Jonathan Wall.