[Report] Canucks to part ways with Judd Bracket

[IBatch]

36 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

It's not that playoff experience gets you further every year, it's about allowing a young core get that experience and be shown that this team (and management) are working on that common goal to win. It may or may not be successful in the long term, but we would never get there if we are playing this game of trying to get prominent picks and then suddenly deciding now is the time to go for it. That didn't work for Buffalo and even with "the greatest player in the game" it hasn't worked well for Edmonton either so far. This talk of us not being ready yet, so there's no point of even trying and might as well go for a high pick is a losers mentality (anyone who's seen The Last Dance would confirm that a champion like MJ doesn't feel this way). I get this thinking at the start of a rebuild, but at some point you make that leap (especially when you have several picks panning out to start developing that young core). Someone like EP who had a great rookie season, still found weaknesses in his game that he wanted to work on in the off-season. The more experience he gets, the more he knows what he wants to improve on. He will face challenges in the playoffs that he likely wouldn't see in the regular season for the most part.

 

This experience is also important for management to assess where they need to tweak in the lineup and which players they need to expect a higher level or move on from. Continuing with EP, he's a clear example of a player that you see working hard to get better the next season because he wants to win and those are the players management will want to see to deem them worthy of being long term future Canucks that will hopefully bring a Cup home.

 

So yes anything can happen in the playoffs and there's no one route to winning a Cup, but you will never have that opportunity if you don't try. But there are clear examples of teams that have developed a losing culture and it is very hard to turn it around over night. So even if we aren't "ready" now, we are on the trajectory to start preparing for that next step.

As far as I can tell your both saying the same things / this is more of an in depth view on making the show for the first time with a new core after a down cycle.
 

After years of first overall and top five picks EDM finally changed their modus operandi and sent Hall and Eberle packing - and brought in some solid vets (Maroon) ... all of a sudden EDM made the playoffs, won a round and lost a hard fought series to then a modest contender ANA in the second round.   The media ate it up.  Lucic and Maroon and the old guard out and a budding superstar seemed to have turned the boat straight upstream and storming ahead.   Many writers and odds makers had them as one of or even THE favourite to win the cup the following year.   Of course that didn’t happen, McDavid and Drasaitl got their pay-day, Lucic became a huge anchor and they couldn’t afford the same support players...and now they are a cap heavy team trying to win much like the WCE era teams did.    Just not going to happen...at least until the cap goes up.
 

Except for the randomness each playoffs especially with parity and under the cap has shown us.   There are still “contenders “.    WSH, PIT, TB, ST Loius (again but they weren’t when they won last year) and recently WNP although their best chances on paper disappeared in a poof last off-season and we have part of those spoils on our defense now.   
 

Yes gaining experience is vital to a teams success - as is a good GM who can make the tough roster changes and sign the right guys to get closer to the ultimate goal.  And yes there are a dozen other things that play into it - injuries to key players (Pavelski last year), depth quality, goaltending (a huge one), reffing (unfortunately), luck of the draw (some great teams can have a bad winning percentage against weaker teams), experience level within a roster, heck even fan reactions probably make a difference (some home buildings are not like others). 
 

Every year there are hero’s and there are goats..and upsets..and different storylines.   Recently Toews and Kane were talking about what an opportunity this is for their team, one of the last cuts of the 24 teams going back to play...think they are playing at .500 on the season with their draw...and once they are in you just never do know.  This year more then any other a team that likely wouldn’t make the playoffs in a full season has a chance to win a cup.  
 

For the Canucks the script really couldn’t have been better.   JB trading for TT doubled down on his willingness and vision that playoffs are the goal.   And who doesn’t want that again.   With a fully healthy roster and without any cap restrictions we could possibly ice the deepest team in the West IMO.  Like EDM a few years ago - we have a HUGE opportunity to have more depth then we will have again ... because EP and QHs haven’t got paid, and our highest paid players are only at 6 million (LE and Myers).      Hope we take complete advantage of this - and am sure JB and TG knows this too.  I expect the round robin/5 game series won’t look much different then playoff games.  They will be intense.  Worst case scenario we lose to MIN and the guys get three playoff quality games under their belts.  Best case ... well don’t want to jinx that.   Like all 24 teams - we have a chance.

[theo5789]

4 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I see both sides of the debate, one that you have stated and one where we  waited a yr and could have got another EP, Hughes like player before bringing in expensive players who sit. I myself thought the rebuild was hastened once EP proved he was for real, and I would have had the patience with them waiting a year before spending on players 

You mentioned moving on from players, if they are the fairly expensive players (or not), it isn't easy moving on from them without adding prospects or picks, that is why who you sign to big dollars in a cap world and where you spend it, is very important

You also mentioned or we could be like Edmonton, they have there 2 stars locked up with no cap space, we have no cap space without our 2 stars signed, so in a way we are more like them than we think, but i like our team and can't say which is the better way to go, but i hope in the end it all works out for the best

The problem is we have players that don't want to wait another year, they want to win. We want that from our players. Did you watch The Last Dance? The Bulls wanted to tank another year, but MJ wanted none of that and willed his team to the playoffs.

 

When I was talking about moving on from players, I was more referring to potential young core players. The playoffs will showcase which players will take their games to another level and which are pieces they could use in a trade to bolster other parts of the lineup while having other young drafted players groomed for spots. Younger players would be much easier to move.

 

We are building more of a team than Edmonton and are developing that winning culture unlike Edmonton who were basement teams for years. EP and QH are unlikely to take up the same proportion of the cap as McDavid and Draisaitl.

[IBatch]

28 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I see both sides of the debate, one that you have stated and one where we  waited a yr and could have got another EP, Hughes like player before bringing in expensive players who sit. I myself thought the rebuild was hastened once EP proved he was for real, and I would have had the patience with them waiting a year before spending on players 

You mentioned moving on from players, if they are the fairly expensive players (or not), it isn't easy moving on from them without adding prospects or picks, that is why who you sign to big dollars in a cap world and where you spend it, is very important

You also mentioned or we could be like Edmonton, they have there 2 stars locked up with no cap space, we have no cap space without our 2 stars signed, so in a way we are more like them than we think, but i like our team and can't say which is the better way to go, but i hope in the end it all works out for the best

Ha ha you must have posted this while I was making my last one.  Yes we are definitely like the Oilers team that won a round and lost to ANA...as stated above.  It’s the best chance we will have for at least two, probably 3-4 to ice a team with this much depth and overall ability.   CHI also went through this with their first cup, as did PIT with their first Crosby cup...that team was insanely deep, as was the year before they won and went to the final with.  Once they all got paid it took a long time to have enough quality support to win again.   I have serious doubts the team we start the season with next year will be as deep - it’s aspirations will land solely on the core getting better.  
 

Going back to the Oilers, even they have had to wait a few years before getting to the show again...it seems like a natural cycle with most teams that end up with the proper star power.  Too much star power CAN be a bad thing.  TO is dealing with that ... TB only gets away with it because they have no state taxes, like Vegas they hold a 12-15% ladvantage over most of the rest of the league.   Would be like having an extra Tavares, or a couple of Horvats etc...

[lmm]

12 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

It does to an extent, it is mostly on the players, system and who is hot at the time that matters and wants it more

Take the last few years as recent examples

A 1st year Knights team makes it to the Stanley Cup Final, The next year they get knocked out in the 1st round, They weren't  better for the experience

They have always had a winning record,

Tampa Bay had previous playoff experience and then were the President Cup team and then were swept in the 1st round as well , but as i said, anything can happen in the playoffs

I think there is a strong feeling the the Gretzky/ Islander story in PROOF of how experience will ALWAYS work.

There is a group that cling to that example and expect it to work like that every time.

When the Oiler lost to NYI they were all very young, the top 5 scorers were 22 or 21 the next 5 were 23-24 with Pat hughes being 27, the goalies were 19 and 22

If you look at the drafting of the Oilers 1979- 3 players 4100 NHL games, 1980- 4 player 3800 games, 1981- 2 players 1600 games, that is 9 players not counting Gretzky drafted in 3 years, we can only dream of drafting that good.

BUt there were people on this forum that thought the 2011 trip to the finals would have the same effect on the Canucks.

by comparison the 2011 Canucks had 9 players 29 or older, that team is not going to gain the same experience as the Gretzky Oilers from the playoffs.

 

Now the current Canuck roster is kind of a hybrid of the two, 9 players 29 + , and 9 players 24 and under, and 8 players 25-28 years old.

But that is 26 players, so who will be gaining experience and who will be sitting in the press box?

[Ballisticsports.]

Yes, I agree on the depth , will probably be our strongest especially with experience, hopefully our Prospects pan out and allow us to grow.

As some other posters stated rushing the playoffs one year early could have us stuck at no more elite picks for years, one more top pick would have been nice, but it is what it is now, luckily we have 2 exciting players and have to hope for the best

 

On your tax comment, If the NHL was concerned about a fair playing field, they could implement a cap based system on net payout instead of gross perhaps?

If it was in strong Canadian hockey markets benefitting i am sure they would, but in non traditional hockey markets like Florida and Vegas I don't think you will see anything change

Canadian teams are already at a disadvantage paying US funds while collecting Canadian funds, but i think the league helped out some? and I think Canadians pay more for games , but certainly not in the millions

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

As far as I can tell your both saying the same things / this is more of an in depth view on making the show for the first time with a new core after a down cycle.
 

After years of first overall and top five picks EDM finally changed their modus operandi and sent Hall and Eberle packing - and brought in some solid vets (Maroon) ... all of a sudden EDM made the playoffs, won a round and lost a hard fought series to then a modest contender ANA in the second round.   The media ate it up.  Lucic and Maroon and the old guard out and a budding superstar seemed to have turned the boat straight upstream and storming ahead.   Many writers and odds makers had them as one of or even THE favourite to win the cup the following year.   Of course that didn’t happen, McDavid and Drasaitl got their pay-day, Lucic became a huge anchor and they couldn’t afford the same support players...and now they are a cap heavy team trying to win much like the WCE era teams did.    Just not going to happen...at least until the cap goes up.
 

Except for the randomness each playoffs especially with parity and under the cap has shown us.   There are still “contenders “.    WSH, PIT, TB, ST Loius (again but they weren’t when they won last year) and recently WNP although their best chances on paper disappeared in a poof last off-season and we have part of those spoils on our defense now.   
 

Yes gaining experience is vital to a teams success - as is a good GM who can make the tough roster changes and sign the right guys to get closer to the ultimate goal.  And yes there are a dozen other things that play into it - injuries to key players (Pavelski last year), depth quality, goaltending (a huge one), reffing (unfortunately), luck of the draw (some great teams can have a bad winning percentage against weaker teams), experience level within a roster, heck even fan reactions probably make a difference (some home buildings are not like others). 
 

Every year there are hero’s and there are goats..and upsets..and different storylines.   Recently Toews and Kane were talking about what an opportunity this is for their team, one of the last cuts of the 24 teams going back to play...think they are playing at .500 on the season with their draw...and once they are in you just never do know.  This year more then any other a team that likely wouldn’t make the playoffs in a full season has a chance to win a cup.  
 

For the Canucks the script really couldn’t have been better.   JB trading for TT doubled down on his willingness and vision that playoffs are the goal.   And who doesn’t want that again.   With a fully healthy roster and without any cap restrictions we could possibly ice the deepest team in the West IMO.  Like EDM a few years ago - we have a HUGE opportunity to have more depth then we will have again ... because EP and QHs haven’t got paid, and our highest paid players are only at 6 million (LE and Myers).      Hope we take complete advantage of this - and am sure JB and TG knows this too.  I expect the round robin/5 game series won’t look much different then playoff games.  They will be intense.  Worst case scenario we lose to MIN and the guys get three playoff quality games under their belts.  Best case ... well don’t want to jinx that.   Like all 24 teams - we have a chance.

I would say the difference is that the Oilers were atrocious for a decade. That losing culture had been engrained. It was only willed out by a McDavid. And I'd argue that Draisaitl has taken his game to another level since that playoff experience and if not for McDavid and that playoff experience that he would likely have fallen into that same funk as many of their players in the past. We are trying to break that cycle before the culture has settled in.

 

I'd also argue that we have drafted better than Edmonton in the later rounds to add further depth to the roster, so we can fill in younger cheaper depth role players to balance out our cap better. And I'd argue that it's these unsung heroes that will make the difference in our pursuit for the Cup. 

 

I understand what you're getting at, but I think we are better positioned to sustain our success. EP isn't touted as the best player in the game and won't get paid as such, but yet he could be just as valuable as a McDavid for us as he continues to up the level of his game.

[Ballisticsports.]

Poor Judd 

No mention of him in these discussions

[lmm]

3 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Poor Judd 

No mention of him in these discussions

this thread has taken a turn, to the 'value of playoff experience'

maybe we should make a new thread, but the Judd topic is pretty much played out

Its all wait and see as far as Judd goes now

 

I am sure there will be someone come on and say, "Look at all the great picks we got without Judd" the day after draft day

and others to respond, "They were all Judd picks, it was his last gift to the Canucks"

Edited June 13, 2020 by lmm

[IBatch]

34 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

The problem is we have players that don't want to wait another year, they want to win. We want that from our players. Did you watch The Last Dance? The Bulls wanted to tank another year, but MJ wanted none of that and willed his team to the playoffs.

 

When I was talking about moving on from players, I was more referring to potential young core players. The playoffs will showcase which players will take their games to another level and which are pieces they could use in a trade to bolster other parts of the lineup while having other young drafted players groomed for spots. Younger players would be much easier to move.

 

We are building more of a team than Edmonton and are developing that winning culture unlike Edmonton who were basement teams for years. EP and QH are unlikely to take up the same proportion of the cap as McDavid and Draisaitl.

EDM is on their second core now...it’s very different then the Hall, Eberle, RNH one.   McDavid and Draisatl are very much like the Crosby, Malkin of ten years ago.    Absolutely they USED too have a losing culture.   Not so sure they do anymore.   Back in the show, last time they were actually very, very good.  Of course the cap came crashing down on them.  But they have some very good players coming in soon as well.  Bouchard RHD has the potential to rack up points like Makar did this year once he gets the best spot in the league on the PP.    Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see him get games this playoffs if someone goes down - and next year he will start his career.   Interestingly they are on the same path as PIT was but a tier down.     Percentage wise Crosby and Malkins deals were almost exactly the same as McDavids and Draisatls...factually EDM is a little lower.

 

The point is the “losing” culture isn’t there anymore.   They are a playoff team now and should remain one for many years given the power change currently in our division.   EDM, VAN and ARI (another “losing culture team”) are on the rise - ANA, LA and SJ have been done or are soon to be done ... CAL is harder to gauge but think they should stays in the running for at least a few years. 

[theo5789]

43 minutes ago, IBatch said:

EDM is on their second core now...it’s very different then the Hall, Eberle, RNH one.   McDavid and Draisatl are very much like the Crosby, Malkin of ten years ago.    Absolutely they USED too have a losing culture.   Not so sure they do anymore.   Back in the show, last time they were actually very, very good.  Of course the cap came crashing down on them.  But they have some very good players coming in soon as well.  Bouchard RHD has the potential to rack up points like Makar did this year once he gets the best spot in the league on the PP.    Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see him get games this playoffs if someone goes down - and next year he will start his career.   Interestingly they are on the same path as PIT was but a tier down.     Percentage wise Crosby and Malkins deals were almost exactly the same as McDavids and Draisatls...factually EDM is a little lower.

 

The point is the “losing” culture isn’t there anymore.   They are a playoff team now and should remain one for many years given the power change currently in our division.   EDM, VAN and ARI (another “losing culture team”) are on the rise - ANA, LA and SJ have been done or are soon to be done ... CAL is harder to gauge but think they should stays in the running for at least a few years. 

Their losing culture may have potentially disappeared when McDavid joined their team. I don't think Draisaitl gets to the next level without him IMO and would've fallen into the fate of Eberle, Hall and Yakupov. Will never know now. I have my doubts about McDavid taking them to the promised land (at least in Edmonton), but that's for another conversation. Aside from that one playoff drive, they've been back to top 10 pick in the draft level again. They were better this year, but not convincing enough to say their losing culture is done.

 

Crosby and Malkin made two lines dominant. McDavid and Draisaitl require each other to form a dominant line. McDavid isn't strong on faceoffs and is kept away from the PK whereas both Malkin and Crosby are at the very least trusted there to take some shifts. So while proportionally of the cap, they are a smidge less, they aren't IMO as dominant of a top 2 center duo.

 

Goaltending for the Oilers continues to be a weakness, whereas we have a steady Marky with Demko and DiPietro with potential to take over. I don't see a whole lot of promise there for the Oilers.

 

They may have a couple good pieces coming up (Bouchard and Benson), but if Benning is correct, we may have 7 or 8 ready to go in the next couple of years alone. And as I mentioned, it's the drafting in the later rounds that will add the cheaper depth for us to build a deeper team. If they expect to compete, they won't be able to rely on Bouchard level players to fill their roster anymore.

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Their losing culture may have potentially disappeared when McDavid joined their team. I don't think Draisaitl gets to the next level without him IMO and would've fallen into the fate of Eberle, Hall and Yakupov. Will never know now. I have my doubts about McDavid taking them to the promised land (at least in Edmonton), but that's for another conversation. Aside from that one playoff drive, they've been back to top 10 pick in the draft level again. They were better this year, but not convincing enough to say their losing culture is done.

 

Crosby and Malkin made two lines dominant. McDavid and Draisaitl require each other to form a dominant line. McDavid isn't strong on faceoffs and is kept away from the PK whereas both Malkin and Crosby are at the very least trusted there to take some shifts. So while proportionally of the cap, they are a smidge less, they aren't IMO as dominant of a top 2 center duo.

 

Goaltending for the Oilers continues to be a weakness, whereas we have a steady Marky with Demko and DiPietro with potential to take over. I don't see a whole lot of promise there for the Oilers.

 

They may have a couple good pieces coming up (Bouchard and Benson), but if Benning is correct, we may have 7 or 8 ready to go in the next couple of years alone. And as I mentioned, it's the drafting in the later rounds that will add the cheaper depth for us to build a deeper team. If they expect to compete, they won't be able to rely on Bouchard level players to fill their roster anymore.

Don’t disagree with this - again they are a tier down from what PIT did, but they do have some similarities.   Yeah their later drafting hasn’t been up to snuff - for a very long time and it was a big part of their failures with the Hall/Eberle group.   Do think they have some opportunity in the division with the Cali teams floundering...time will tell. 

[lmm]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

EDM is on their second core now...it’s very different then the Hall, Eberle, RNH one.   McDavid and Draisatl are very much like the Crosby, Malkin of ten years ago.    Absolutely they USED too have a losing culture.   Not so sure they do anymore.   Back in the show, last time they were actually very, very good.  Of course the cap came crashing down on them.  But they have some very good players coming in soon as well.  Bouchard RHD has the potential to rack up points like Makar did this year once he gets the best spot in the league on the PP.    Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see him get games this playoffs if someone goes down - and next year he will start his career.   Interestingly they are on the same path as PIT was but a tier down.     Percentage wise Crosby and Malkins deals were almost exactly the same as McDavids and Draisatls...factually EDM is a little lower.

 

The point is the “losing” culture isn’t there anymore.   They are a playoff team now and should remain one for many years given the power change currently in our division.   EDM, VAN and ARI (another “losing culture team”) are on the rise - ANA, LA and SJ have been done or are soon to be done ... CAL is harder to gauge but think they should stays in the running for at least a few years. 

the funny thing about Edmonton is how people talk about it as though it is one continuous regime.

Ken Holland took over 13 months ago

He has been responsible for 1 draft so far.

Like Benning, I think Ken Holland deserves his own run, not lumped with all the previous regimes.

If Edmonton starts getting 2-3 good picks beginning last year or even this year, things will change fast.

 

[theo5789]

2 hours ago, lmm said:

the funny thing about Edmonton is how people talk about it as though it is one continuous regime.

Ken Holland took over 13 months ago

He has been responsible for 1 draft so far.

Like Benning, I think Ken Holland deserves his own run, not lumped with all the previous regimes.

If Edmonton starts getting 2-3 good picks beginning last year or even this year, things will change fast.

 

Fair enough that they have a fresh start with Holland. With that said, a team like Buffalo has gone through a couple of regimes now and it's much of the same. For some teams, it's hard to wash off that stink, but I guess we will see if Holland can turn it around. Getting rid of Lucic was a great first step for them. Development of their prospects will be an important next step.

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Fair enough that they have a fresh start with Holland. With that said, a team like Buffalo has gone through a couple of regimes now and it's much of the same. For some teams, it's hard to wash off that stink, but I guess we will see if Holland can turn it around. Getting rid of Lucic was a great first step for them. Development of their prospects will be an important next step.

ARI is also been toiling for quite some now (Faulk is a recent player to be gone from what could be conceived as a core before say Keller),  and CAR floundered for almost a decade until their young studs finally turned things around - to the point where gimmicks were added to get fans back...so EDM definitely isn’t the only example of a losing culture seeping in over the years.   All of these teams appear to be on the up and up now ... funny thing is ARI will be moved to the East so we won’t have to deal with them (although Seattle has a chance to come in close to the same I suppose, just without much of a pool to start with).  
 

Overall I’m not sure where to put Vancouver yet - but do think we have pretty good odds at becoming a dominant force in our own division during the early-mid 2020’s if most of the cards are played right.   The Miller trade and signing Myers bumped things up two years ... JB did a great job of acquiring the talent - hope he’s just as good at managing an up and coming team and can finish the puzzle.  

[lmm]

14 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Fair enough that they have a fresh start with Holland. With that said, a team like Buffalo has gone through a couple of regimes now and it's much of the same. For some teams, it's hard to wash off that stink, but I guess we will see if Holland can turn it around. Getting rid of Lucic was a great first step for them. Development of their prospects will be an important next step.

I think the Canucks are more like the Sabres and Oilers than fans want to admit. Buffalo was good under Darcy Regier but stumbled during rookie manager Tim Murray's reign. The Oilers have stumbled during the Kevin Lowe + friends era, but yes Cherelli did not wash the stink off. Vancouver had some success under rookie Gillis, followed by failure and cap troubles that started with GIllis and Gilman, then rookies Trevor and Jim had trouble righting the ship. Things are starting to look up now, but it has not been smooth sailing so far. The fact Judd Bracket is even an issue shows the Canucks having trouble that a more experienced management team may have avoided. 

The hearty fans see nothing but blue sky, while the synical among us see the possiblity of disaster lurking.

Hopefully Brackett goes away and all is right in Canuckland, but what if this happens again next year with someone else? Then a pattern emerges that does not look good on this team. 

[Fred65]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

ARI is also been toiling for quite some now (Faulk is a recent player to be gone from what could be conceived as a core before say Keller),  and CAR floundered for almost a decade until their young studs finally turned things around - to the point where gimmicks were added to get fans back...so EDM definitely isn’t the only example of a losing culture seeping in over the years.   All of these teams appear to be on the up and up now ... funny thing is ARI will be moved to the East so we won’t have to deal with them (although Seattle has a chance to come in close to the same I suppose, just without much of a pool to start with).  
 

Overall I’m not sure where to put Vancouver yet - but do think we have pretty good odds at becoming a dominant force in our own division during the early-mid 2020’s if most of the cards are played right.   The Miller trade and signing Myers bumped things up two years ... JB did a great job of acquiring the talent - hope he’s just as good at managing an up and coming team and can finish the puzzle.  

In summary is it fair to say that having good prospects does not automatically = the SC. We got so close in 2011and yet our depth needed to sustain a marathon was not good enough that plus of course Kelly Sutherland  Publicity wise the Canucks depend on we have a bright future and good prospects but is it a sales gimmick or does it actually carry weight.

[mll]

13 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

In summary is it fair to say that having good prospects does not automatically = the SC. We got so close in 2011and yet our depth needed to sustain a marathon was not good enough that plus of course Kelly Sutherland  Publicity wise the Canucks depend on we have a bright future and good prospects but is it a sales gimmick or does it actually carry weight.

Pronman, Wheeler and Button each had  Madden as the Canucks 3rd best prospect on their respective lists that came out in January.  Guess it depends how valuable you believe Madden was.  

[Gurn]

those believing that the Benning is doing better without Linden should remember that JB was a rookie to start out, and his gaining of experience may have more to do with the teams perceived success than the departure of TL.

[FairPM]

47 minutes ago, lmm said:

I think the Canucks are more like the Sabres and Oilers than fans want to admit. Buffalo was good under Darcy Regier but stumbled during rookie manager Tim Murray's reign. The Oilers have stumbled during the Kevin Lowe + friends era, but yes Cherelli did not wash the stink off. Vancouver had some success under rookie Gillis, followed by failure and cap troubles that started with GIllis and Gilman, then rookies Trevor and Jim had trouble righting the ship. Things are starting to look up now, but it has not been smooth sailing so far. The fact Judd Bracket is even an issue shows the Canucks having trouble that a more experienced management team may have avoided. 

The hearty fans see nothing but blue sky, while the synical among us see the possiblity of disaster lurking.

Hopefully Brackett goes away and all is right in Canuckland, but what if this happens again next year with someone else? Then a pattern emerges that does not look good on this team. 

Realistic Rebuilds should take 6+ years. It takes about 3 years before a drafted player is nhl ready. Then another 3 years to establish themselves as NHLers. To build a solid core, this would mean 6-8 yrs. I'd say we're on track. Vancouver has been spoiled with the quality of draft picks that have graduated and this probably distorts the assessment by many fans. 

[theo5789]

26 minutes ago, lmm said:

I think the Canucks are more like the Sabres and Oilers than fans want to admit. Buffalo was good under Darcy Regier but stumbled during rookie manager Tim Murray's reign. The Oilers have stumbled during the Kevin Lowe + friends era, but yes Cherelli did not wash the stink off. Vancouver had some success under rookie Gillis, followed by failure and cap troubles that started with GIllis and Gilman, then rookies Trevor and Jim had trouble righting the ship. Things are starting to look up now, but it has not been smooth sailing so far. The fact Judd Bracket is even an issue shows the Canucks having trouble that a more experienced management team may have avoided. 

The hearty fans see nothing but blue sky, while the synical among us see the possiblity of disaster lurking.

Hopefully Brackett goes away and all is right in Canuckland, but what if this happens again next year with someone else? Then a pattern emerges that does not look good on this team. 

All the more reason why Benning is trying to push us out of this funk rather than be concerned about adding more "prominent pieces" through the draft and waiting until we are "ready". Management is not gifting prospects spots even on poor teams and forcing them to earn it by beating out even mediocre UFA vet signings.

 

I disagree that we are that similar to the Oilers and Buffalo though. Many disagree with our expensive veteran signings to shelter our, something that those teams had not done. We have not won a single 1st overall pick to expedite any rebuild and yet those teams have have been bottom of the barrel for nearly a decade. The Oilers are starting to bounce back now while the Canucks aren't far behind despite not being at the bottom for as long.

 

I'm not going to be concerned about a pattern that may or may not exist yet. The evidence is in front of us where our team's drafting has been a stark contrast to pre-Benning times and the struggles to right the ship comes from rebuilding. IMO, we have turned this around relatively quickly especially when we are comparing to teams like Edmonton and Buffalo.