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DarkIndianRises

[proposal] Some Canucks trades and moves that I’d like but you’d probably hate

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Forgot about Roussel!

 

Looks like the hockey layoff has made me a bit rusty.   This would be my line-up with all of my suggested ideas:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Toffoli

Pearson-Horvat-Boeser 

Ferland-Sissons-Leivo

Roussel-Beagle-Motte

 

Edler-Dobson

Hughes-Myers

Tryamkin-Rafferty

 

Markstrom

NewBackUpFromOttawaOrDetroit

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Posted (edited)

Not an overall bad idea, for the right price and piece(s) any player is movable but in my opinion these moves weaken the team going forward.

 

1.  As a lot of ppl said I don't see either Ottawa or Detroit going for this deal.  Ottawa has a goalie or 2 that in their eyes are equal to Demko in potential.  With the cap stagnant at 81.5 neither team will take on 2 years of LE for just Demko, his value isn't there yet.  But I could see this deal happen next year before the E.D and with Seattle.  They will need to get to the cap floor and will need a couple high salary players. They will have plenty of options but if Demko has a great next year, I can see them taking on LE and the last year of his contract with the Canucks giving them Demko, ( aside from T. Myers) Demko may be the best legit option for Seattle if still on the team.  This would also kill multiple birds with one stone, moving LE at a "minimal" cost, (in the process freeing up cap space for EP and QH), while losing a player from a position of strength and a player that may have the least negative impact on the team.  Even more so if Dipietro or Silovs improve greatly next year. ( Provided Markstrom is re-signed this year of course).

 

2.  NYI are high on Dobson and their future top 2 RD, they will move Wilde before him, also Podz as good as a prospect he is, isn't at ND value at the moment.  With the RW that we have, including Toffoli, Podz in a few years in the league will be better than all of them, he is that good.  Also Pearson is off the the books next year and with him gone, Virt or Toff can play LW making room for Podz on RW. On top of that if the team wants to stay competitive and challenge for the cup consistently year after year, they will need impact players on ELC and Podz elc will align more with that window than NDs will.  I'd rather the team go after Cernak from TB, the Canucks have had a lot of luck with players they acquire from the Florida teams. Or Siegenthaler from the Caps, these RD players will cost the Canucks less and give the team a solid RD for years with lower cap hit in the future.

 

3.& 6.  I don't see either team doing this deal especially the Canucks.  Virtanen has been improving a lot year over year, offensively, defensively and as a PWF. These PWF type of players are hard to come by and when they do cost a lot to acquire, the 3rd most after a top C, or top 2 D.   Losing Virtanen then moving Gaudette, especially for pick(s) is a step backwards.  Even though Colton at the moment is better defensively than Gaudette, Adam is much better offensively and growing defensively.  To your point about trying to free up Bo, he relishes this role and excels at this role, nor do I think this hinders his offensive ability (eg: P. Bergeron).  Also more teams are preferring to match top lines against top lines and let the chips lay where they fall. In this regard I don't see Bo's role decreasing as he will still be heavily relied upon to go up against the other teams top line.  But these moves could have the opposite affect of what you want as with a diminished offensive 3rd line, there would be more pressure on Bo and Petey and their lines to produce more and thus may face more scrutiny from the other teams.

 

4. I like Troy as a player and person, but his place on the team could be lost depending on off season moves.  Even though he has arbitration rights as an RFA  if he is not given a QO those are gone and becomes a UFA. If a player isn't given a QO there is a small window before they hit UFA to try to negotiate a new contract, which could be lower than current.  This could give the Canucks a chance to try to sign him on  a lower 1 or 2 year contract as a 6 D or move his rights to a team on a conditional pick received if said team re-signs him before he hits UFA.  I could see Toronto interested in something like this, nothing lost if no player gained.

 

5. I like Nikita and think he will be a solid 4/5 Dman.  But without really knowing his long term desire to play in Vancouver and depending on his perceived value throughout the league I would try to move him to TB or Washington.  He may prefer to play in one of those cities (just my thought nothing factual) and sign a longer term lower cap hit salary than he would here.  I would try to use Nikita as a piece for either Cernak or Siegenthaler.

 

    Baertschi trade with 50% retained on his last year is possible.  A team may be willing to give a 5th or possible a 4th for a 35 point NHL player making under 2 million for one year.  Depending what happens with contracts in Ufa this year I can see this happening, even with him clearing 2 or 3 times last year, it's now a different situation.

   Sutter is probable with 50% retained but highly unlikely and I think with the Canucks competing for POs they may prefer to keep him since it's his last year anyways.

   J. Benn again with 50% retained could probably be moved but highly unlikely.  

   Tanev I could see coming back on a one year deal with similar value as current

   Rafferty, Brisebois, Juolevi will be given chances to play on the team with one or even two being up full time.

Depending on what is happening with Ferland, I think there may be only one spot left for either Motte or Leivo

 

 

Edited by KariyaSakicAnderson
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On 6/6/2020 at 8:56 PM, coastal.view said:

no to giving away demko for nothing

 

nucks have 20 million in cap space this off season

42 million the next off season
we have enough cap room to deal with contracts particularly in light of contracts increases being very unlikely in this time of covid

better to buy ericksson out then to give away talent to move his contract

 

don't understand the urgency to move ericksson expressed by so many

he is forcing team to hold cap room so we have it when ep40 and hughes need to be resigned

(he is like a forced savings plan)

if you move ericksson now and spend his cap space now

there will be problems when our 2 elite youngsters need contracts

Buying out LE makes no sense at this point.  All it will do is prolong the pain another 4 years (it all counts against the cap in the end).   Next season if LE is still here,  JB won’t have much choice other then to trade him the same way TO was forced to trade Marleau.  It cost them a first rounder for one season.   
 

I do agree IF we moved him that that money can’t be used past this season only - as we will need it for Hughes and EP for sure.     Tanev looks to be getting a one year deal (which is perfect for us and Q Hughes), JV needs another contract, and with the rest (Stetcher or his replacement etc) the money will be more then gone by the time next season starts.   Factually we can’t afford to ice the same team we did this season next year without some movement.   Maybe Roussel gets moved ... Leivo is gone for sure.   I see the bench getting a little slimmer and losing some depth.  Ferland say he’s back - so his cap space counts soon too.  Something has to shake out if the team plans to sign TT (he might have zero interest who knows).  
 

I don’t think JB is in too much cap troubles next season - but it will be tighter then the current one - the one after that is going to be tough even with LE gone.  6 million won’t be enough to cover both QH and EP.   Same with Luongos money available the year after that.   12-15 million is a conservative estimate to cover those twos next deals. 

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12 hours ago, KariyaSakicAnderson said:

Not an overall bad idea, for the right price and piece(s) any player is movable but in my opinion these moves weaken the team going forward.

 

1.  As a lot of ppl said I don't see either Ottawa or Detroit going for this deal.  Ottawa has a goalie or 2 that in their eyes are equal to Demko in potential.  With the cap stagnant at 81.5 neither team will take on 2 years of LE for just Demko, his value isn't there yet.  But I could see this deal happen next year before the E.D and with Seattle.  They will need to get to the cap floor and will need a couple high salary players. They will have plenty of options but if Demko has a great next year, I can see them taking on LE and the last year of his contract with the Canucks giving them Demko, ( aside from T. Myers) Demko may be the best legit option for Seattle if still on the team.  This would also kill multiple birds with one stone, moving LE at a "minimal" cost, (in the process freeing up cap space for EP and QH), while losing a player from a position of strength and a player that may have the least negative impact on the team.  Even more so if Dipietro or Silovs improve greatly next year. ( Provided Markstrom is re-signed this year of course).

 

2.  NYI are high on Dobson and their future top 2 RD, they will move Wilde before him, also Podz as good as a prospect he is, isn't at ND value at the moment.  With the RW that we have, including Toffoli, Podz in a few years in the league will be better than all of them, he is that good.  Also Pearson is off the the books next year and with him gone, Virt or Toff can play LW making room for Podz on RW. On top of that if the team wants to stay competitive and challenge for the cup consistently year after year, they will need impact players on ELC and Podz elc will align more with that window than NDs will.  I'd rather the team go after Cernak from TB, the Canucks have had a lot of luck with players they acquire from the Florida teams. Or Siegenthaler from the Caps, these RD players will cost the Canucks less and give the team a solid RD for years with lower cap hit in the future.

 

3.& 6.  I don't see either team doing this deal especially the Canucks.  Virtanen has been improving a lot year over year, offensively, defensively and as a PWF. These PWF type of players are hard to come by and when they do cost a lot to acquire, the 3rd most after a top C, or top 2 D.   Losing Virtanen then moving Gaudette, especially for pick(s) is a step backwards.  Even though Colton at the moment is better defensively than Gaudette, Adam is much better offensively and growing defensively.  To your point about trying to free up Bo, he relishes this role and excels at this role, nor do I think this hinders his offensive ability (eg: P. Bergeron).  Also more teams are preferring to match top lines against top lines and let the chips lay where they fall. In this regard I don't see Bo's role decreasing as he will still be heavily relied upon to go up against the other teams top line.  But these moves could have the opposite affect of what you want as with a diminished offensive 3rd line, there would be more pressure on Bo and Petey and their lines to produce more and thus may face more scrutiny from the other teams.

 

4. I like Troy as a player and person, but his place on the team could be lost depending on off season moves.  Even though he has arbitration rights as an RFA  if he is not given a QO those are gone and becomes a UFA. If a player isn't given a QO there is a small window before they hit UFA to try to negotiate a new contract, which could be lower than current.  This could give the Canucks a chance to try to sign him on  a lower 1 or 2 year contract as a 6 D or move his rights to a team on a conditional pick received if said team re-signs him before he hits UFA.  I could see Toronto interested in something like this, nothing lost if no player gained.

 

5. I like Nikita and think he will be a solid 4/5 Dman.  But without really knowing his long term desire to play in Vancouver and depending on his perceived value throughout the league I would try to move him to TB or Washington.  He may prefer to play in one of those cities (just my thought nothing factual) and sign a longer term lower cap hit salary than he would here.  I would try to use Nikita as a piece for either Cernak or Siegenthaler.

 

    Baertschi trade with 50% retained on his last year is possible.  A team may be willing to give a 5th or possible a 4th for a 35 point NHL player making under 2 million for one year.  Depending what happens with contracts in Ufa this year I can see this happening, even with him clearing 2 or 3 times last year, it's now a different situation.

   Sutter is probable with 50% retained but highly unlikely and I think with the Canucks competing for POs they may prefer to keep him since it's his last year anyways.

   J. Benn again with 50% retained could probably be moved but highly unlikely.  

   Tanev I could see coming back on a one year deal with similar value as current

   Rafferty, Brisebois, Juolevi will be given chances to play on the team with one or even two being up full time.

Depending on what is happening with Ferland, I think there may be only one spot left for either Motte or Leivo

 

 

Vancouver has zero leverage over Seattle to get them to take LE just by selecting Demko.   It’s almost a certainty we would be protecting Markstrom and exposing Demko.    They simply take whomever they want that is left unprotected.   Every team in the league last ED hoped Vegas would pick an expensive player ... it wasn’t hard for them to make the floor.  Additionally much has been said about how GMs have wised up and won’t be giving away extras like they did with Vegas just so a certain player is picked instead.   Back-ups are one of the easiest positions to fill.   Demko would have to be lights out to get protected instead - and we’d be in a better state if that happened and he took over from Markstrom- let them pick Markstrom in that case and save money.  
 

The reason Demko keeps coming up in trade threads is most fans know there is a decent chance we will lose him for nothing - hard pill to swallow but that’s how this works - and if not him then another player for nothing.   We will also be exposing a glut of middle six players so who knows who they pick.   On defense we are sorted as we won’t need to protect Edler and with a one year deal getting hashed out with Tanev right now likely him too.   This means we’d be able to protect 5 of our top six D’s.   AHL guys could get nabbed though...maybe OJ if we don’t protect him?  
 

Back to Demko.  The timing isn’t right for an actual deal at this point.   Whomever traded for him has to be in the position where they are also willing to protect him...how many teams would even consider this?  OTT and DET are the right answers at least.   Both don’t have a guy as good as Demko in their system as of right now.   They’d have to be very high on him - and unfortunately his stock isn’t that high.   I doubt we’d get much more then we did for Lack if we traded him (and his sp was around .920 at the time) now even if the ED wasn’t an issue.   Too many great back-ups and solid proven vets floating around.   The time to trade Demko is after the ED and if his play is pushing his pay up too much and the right deal comes around (and only if Markstrom is aging like fine wine).  Goalies don’t get much really...Schneider was one of the better hauls ever pick wise and he was a top five league wide goalie at the time.   What did MTL get for the great Patrick Roy again?  A plethora of mediocrity.   

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10 hours ago, IBatch said:

Vancouver has zero leverage over Seattle to get them to take LE just by selecting Demko.   It’s almost a certainty we would be protecting Markstrom and exposing Demko.    They simply take whomever they want that is left unprotected.   Every team in the league last ED hoped Vegas would pick an expensive player ... it wasn’t hard for them to make the floor.  Additionally much has been said about how GMs have wised up and won’t be giving away extras like they did with Vegas just so a certain player is picked instead.   Back-ups are one of the easiest positions to fill.   Demko would have to be lights out to get protected instead - and we’d be in a better state if that happened and he took over from Markstrom- let them pick Markstrom in that case and save money.  
 

The reason Demko keeps coming up in trade threads is most fans know there is a decent chance we will lose him for nothing - hard pill to swallow but that’s how this works - and if not him then another player for nothing.   We will also be exposing a glut of middle six players so who knows who they pick.   On defense we are sorted as we won’t need to protect Edler and with a one year deal getting hashed out with Tanev right now likely him too.   This means we’d be able to protect 5 of our top six D’s.   AHL guys could get nabbed though...maybe OJ if we don’t protect him?  
 

Back to Demko.  The timing isn’t right for an actual deal at this point.   Whomever traded for him has to be in the position where they are also willing to protect him...how many teams would even consider this?  OTT and DET are the right answers at least.   Both don’t have a guy as good as Demko in their system as of right now.   They’d have to be very high on him - and unfortunately his stock isn’t that high.   I doubt we’d get much more then we did for Lack if we traded him (and his sp was around .920 at the time) now even if the ED wasn’t an issue.   Too many great back-ups and solid proven vets floating around.   The time to trade Demko is after the ED and if his play is pushing his pay up too much and the right deal comes around (and only if Markstrom is aging like fine wine).  Goalies don’t get much really...Schneider was one of the better hauls ever pick wise and he was a top five league wide goalie at the time.   What did MTL get for the great Patrick Roy again?  A plethora of mediocrity.   

I understand why a lot of people have Demko in trade threads, especially trading him to Ottawa (which I think is the wrong team to target). I also agree that his value at this point in time isn't as high as some may think nor would he be enough for a team to take on LE last 2 years.  I also agree that this year isn't the right time to move him for a few reasons, one of which is first Markstrom needs to be re-signed and the type of contract he will have, years, conditions etc, be known. That's why I thought next year would be a better time to move him, depending on a lot of things that transpire this year and next year of course.  The next expansion draft will be different than what Vegas experienced.  It has been mentioned a lot of how GMs wouldn't be doing similar deals to what they did with Vegas, that most GMs would just allow Seattle to take one player and not try to make a side deal to keep another specific player.  

 

That's why I mentioned that depending on how Demko plays next, if he has a great year, playing 25 to 32 games, Seattle may have interest in him.  Why would they? if he has a great year and depending on which other goalies are available they may see him as the best option as the/a future starting goalie.  If they see that, then most likely a few teams would as well and if they don't have a goalie they are willing to protect, one of those teams may be willing to take LEs last year to get Demko and may not need a lot of an extra add.  I see Detroit as one of those possible teams next year as they will probably have the most cap space, but I don't see Ottawa as a trade partner.  This is all conjecture of course. 

 

Values for goalies has dropped drastically since the Schneider trade.  At that time the game was played in a way that suited goalies better than the way it is played now, then add on top, rule changes to goalie equipment size, enforcing that, skill level of players, speed etc. goalies are not the hot commodity that they once where unfortunately.   

Patrick Roy was an unfortunate trade,  with Roy demanding a trade and refusing to play for them anymore, its hard to maximize any players true value.  As it was with the Kesler trade.  

 

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On 6/6/2020 at 3:23 PM, DarkIndianRises said:

[proposal] Some Canucks trades and moves that I’d like but you’d probably hate

 

1) Eriksson and Demko to Ottawa or Detroit for a cheap back-up.

-The Canucks risk losing Demko to the Expansion Draft anyways.   Even if they don’t, they’ll need to find a way to get Eriksson’s contract off the books so that they can have enough money to re-up guys like Pettersson, Hughes, etc.   The Sens or Wings get a solid young goalie that can help them by taking on a bad contract.

 

2) Podkolzin for Noah Dobson:

-The Islanders get a better prospect, while we get a prospect that plays a more important position.   The Isles already have Bode Wilde as a right side D prospect and so they might be interested in becoming more well rounded.  Podkzolin playing Barzal could be a real nightmare for them.  Dobson gives the Canucks a future top pairing all situations dman that can over from Edler one day.  We don’t have anyone in our system that can effectively replace what Edler brings to the table.

 

3) Virtanen for Colton Sissons:   The Canucks get a young legitimate shut down center at a very good cap hit.   The presence of Sissons would allow for the Canucks to free up Horvat a little more and let Horvat play in more offensive roles instead of being our defacto shut down guy (something that Sutter was supposed to do by the way).  Virtanen is a better play than Sissons but Sissons is cheaper and would play a much more important role for us when you consider the fact that we’d have Boeser and Toffoli already.

 

4) Stecher either gets moved for a pick or is unqualified.

5) Tryamkin comes back

6) Gaudette moved for a draft pick.

7) Baertschi traded with 50% retention for a pick.

8) Sutter traded at 50% retention for a pick.

9) Chris Tanev walks to clear cap space

10) Trade Jordie Benn for a draft pick.

11) Rafferty makes the team.

12) Re-sign Toffoli

13) Re-sign Leivo

14) Re-sign Motte

 

New line-up:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Toffoli

Pearson-Horvat-Boeser

Ferland-Sissons-Leivo

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

Edler-Myers

Hughes-Dobson

Tryamkin-Rafferty

 

Markstrom

NewBackUp

 

You guys do not have to thank me all at once for saving the Canucks and building us a winner beyond this season.  :-p

 

Terrible, terrible, and your not a Canuck fan.

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1 hour ago, captaincowbasher said:

Terrible, terrible, and your not a Canuck fan.

I’m a Canucks fan.

 

I’m happy to discuss any specific issues that you have with my proposals, but if you’re just going to resort to mindless name calling like a 6 year old, then I’ll pass.  

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On 6/10/2020 at 12:46 PM, DarkIndianRises said:

I’m a Canucks fan.

 

I’m happy to discuss any specific issues that you have with my proposals, but if you’re just going to resort to mindless name calling like a 6 year old, then I’ll pass.  

Fair enough, sorry for the visceral reaction, but 1. Pods is special, he's a cross between TJ Oshie and Dustin Brown, and you don't throw that sort of player away. Ipod will be a foundational part of our future for years to come. Guys like Pods, Hogs, and Bonner will be vital pieces to our cup puzzle. You might consider selling them off when the team has made a number of deep runs. 2. Virtanen is just beginning to become the player we all hoped for, so we do not want to move him. 3. A hard pass on Tryamkin, as he was ok in the 3rd best league in the world.4. Gaudette is not going anywhere. By moving him your going backwards with the rebuild and detracting from building. 5. Leivo no longer fits, as he looks poor in a bottom six role, and not good enough to be a top six.

 

Your right about Toffoli, as they need to resign him. Sutter as well your correct on, as they need to try and recover a 2nd rounder, but not retaining salary. Maybe package him up with a defender like Benn to try and land that coveted pick.

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On 6/6/2020 at 7:06 PM, Where's Wellwood said:

Why would we trade Gaudette?

Because his porous defensive play is not enough to compensate for what equates to being “half decent offensively?”   Because he play some of the softest minutes in the NHL due to his limitations?

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