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Timbermen

Journalist Gloats Over Jordan Peterson's Troubles

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2 hours ago, aGENT said:

IMO that's a sad, un-nuanced, oversimplified and rather black and white lens to view and judge other people. Also rather glass house.

 

Agree to disagree.

I actually believe strongly in Peterson's beliefs regarding personal responsibility, I am a product of my choices.  Peterson made the choices that resulted in addiction thus the blame falls squarely upon his shoulders based upon his own belief system. I am judging Peterson based upon the standard that he promoted to cultivate a following. Its ironic because a lot of the same following looks down upon "drug addicts" which Peterson now happens to be.  

 

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1 minute ago, Toews said:

I actually believe strongly in Peterson's beliefs regarding personal responsibility, I am a product of my choices.  Peterson made the choices that resulted in addiction thus the blame falls squarely upon his shoulders based upon his own belief system. I am judging Peterson based upon the standard that he promoted to cultivate a following. Its ironic because a lot of the same following looks down upon "drug addicts" which Peterson now happens to be.  

 

Good question for you and @aGENT

 

If you do all the right things and get all the wrong results, does blame fall strictly on your shoulders?

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10 minutes ago, Toews said:

I actually believe strongly in Peterson's beliefs regarding personal responsibility, I am a product of my choices.  Peterson made the choices that resulted in addiction thus the blame falls squarely upon his shoulders based upon his own belief system. I am judging Peterson based upon the standard that he promoted to cultivate a following. Its ironic because a lot of the same following looks down upon "drug addicts" which Peterson now happens to be.  

 

Did I say he wasn't responsible for his actions?

 

These are two different things.

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3 hours ago, Master Mind said:

Not only is that an ill-informed opinion on him, but I'll ask you the same question: 

 

Does your dislike for him make it right to celebrate his personal hardships?

he doesn't seem to have a lot of sympathy for a lot of groups of people.  Don't give it, don't get it

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3 hours ago, Timbermen said:

That sounds exactly like those indoctrinated SJW students at McGill University. Also, aren't you discribimg the marxist professor that jump out wielding bike locks at student rallies? It sounds like you're describing Antifa, a known terrorist organization. They aren't much better than the KKK, both of them are why Centrists exist. Both are examples of exteme ideology's on the left and right, Antifa((MarxismIfTheyWereHonoust)/Fascism

face palm GIF

 

He intentionally stokes the fires of discontent and division.  There are things he says that I actually don't disagree with, necessarily, I'm just a decent enough human being to know to keep my mouth shut about things that don't really affect my life.  He takes those things and uses them for self promotion and to enflame others.  He can claim he doesn't all he wants, but he's a smart guy, he knows exactly what he's doing.

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6 minutes ago, stawns said:

he doesn't seem to have a lot of sympathy for a lot of groups of people.  Don't give it, don't get it

You might get away with saying that, but don't ever say this:

 

"its not a nice thing to do, but you reap what you sow. "

 

Just ask @Jimmy McGill

 

:ph34r:

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Did I say he wasn't responsible for his actions?

 

These are two different things.

By my interpretation the post below seeks to minimize Peterson's personal responsibility for his addiction. I can tell you aren't one of Peterson's disciples otherwise you would have a better understanding of the irony of this situation. You would for example never cast blame towards the doctor prescribing the drugs because that would a gross violation of Petersonism, which states that your personal responsibility doesn't end based on a doctor's prescription.

6 hours ago, aGENT said:

I don't think he 'chose' to become addicted to prescribed medication for anxiety over his wife's terminal illness.

 

As I wrote above, the two need not be mutually exclusive.

 

Though I would question the wisdom/prudence of the doctor who prescribed them to someone with known history of alcohol addiction and depression. That's a whole other thread though :lol:

 

Edited by Toews

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Good question for you and @aGENT

 

If you do all the right things and get all the wrong results, does blame fall strictly on your shoulders?

The world is largely unfair so yes personal responsibility only goes so far. Peterson philosophy isn't original, history will show many figures who managed to become great influencers by championing that men take accountability for their own lives and choices rather than engage in victimhood by blaming others. I will admit that Peterson's message holds great appeal to me, but I realized a long time ago that there were limits to this. I only have a problem with some of Peterson's supporters who will use his teachings out of context to put down others. I don't think JP has made any efforts to rein in this element of his support and hence I don't take umbrage with those who seem unsympathetic to his plight. I believe Jimmy was a little harsh but he wasn't entirely wrong, "you reap what you sow" is after all Jordan Peterson's philosophy boiled down to its essence.

Edited by Toews

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2 hours ago, stawns said:

he doesn't seem to have a lot of sympathy for a lot of groups of people.  Don't give it, don't get it

Ok, but now you're not giving sympathy.

 

Does that give the green light for others to gloat should you endure a similar situation?

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A little more sympathy for people with any kind of drug addiction, I think, is needed: https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/good-thinking/201402/the-myth-and-reality-free-will-the-case-addiction. How many here on CDC drink alcohol quite often, smoke cigarettes, eat more than they should? Because I think it's safe to say that we're all drug addicts who deserve a level of sympathy for what we give into. The only difference is what drug is your vice. 

 

A snippet: 

 

"Addiction is nothing more and nothing less than a high-jacking of this normal reward circuitry, a high-jacking that can eventually rob people of their free will to choose. Duke University professors of pharmacology Wilkie Wilson and Cynthia Kuhn eloquently summarize addiction this way it this way:

 

So addiction is far more than seeking pleasure by choice. Nor is it just the willingness to avoid withdrawal symptoms. It is a hijacking of the brain circuitry that controls behavior so that the addict’s behavior is fully directed to drug seeking and use. With repeated drug use, the reward system of the brain becomes subservient to the need for the drug.

 

This high-jacking occurs for three reasons. First, some substances put this reward system into overdrive, causing release of dopamine (and other neurotransmitters) at levels several times higher than the brain is designed to handle. Second, some people are particularly sensitive to the effects of these drugs, causing them to become enslaved to them in ways that others have difficulty understanding. Third, in attempting right itself, the brain becomes acutely tuned to environmental stimuli that end up feeding the addiction."

 

It also sounds like JP has followed his own advice and taken responsibility and sought out treatment, so there's that as well. 

 

I'm just going to do it... For a deep dive into free will and why it still matters, you can check this out below (it's long but well worth the watch in its entirety, as it's incredibly thought-provoking:

 

 

 

I hope I'm not high-jacking this thread too much, but I do feel like my insertion of philosophy into the discussion matters to what has been talked about. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with JP, he's a free thinker, and a smart one at that, so I hope adding a little Harris into this helps even more because he's probably the clearest thinking/communicating free thinker alive right now. 

 

I know no one asked what the second piece of writing I read that changed my life considerably was, but it was Harris's essay called 'Lying', which you can find a pdf of online no problem. It's a short and highly insightful read that can have a life-changing impact very quickly. 

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1 hour ago, Toews said:

By my interpretation the post below seeks to minimize Peterson's personal responsibility for his addiction. I can tell you aren't one of Peterson's disciples otherwise you would have a better understanding of the irony of this situation. You would for example never cast blame towards the doctor prescribing the drugs because that would a gross violation of Petersonism, which states that your personal responsibility doesn't end based on a doctor's prescription.

 

No, it's just a basic understanding of how addiction works. People don't tend to 'choose' it.

 

It also doesn't abdicate him for his own responsibility in it. You can recognize his failings there while still having empathy for him/his addiction issue. The world isn't that simple and people even less so.

 

And Peterson probably understands better than either of us the good and bad in all of us, himself included.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

No, it's just a basic understanding of how addiction works. People don't tend to 'choose' it.

 

It also doesn't abdicate him for his own responsibility in it. You can recognize his failings there while still having empathy for him/his addiction issue. The world isn't that simple and people even less so.

 

And Peterson probably understands better than either of us the good and bad in all of us, himself included.

 

 

And he explains when talking about what Carl Jung called the shadow.

Edited by Timbermen
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6 hours ago, Timbermen said:

Not good, i agree. One is fuelled by racism and the other is a communist revolution.

One is born of the ideological ideals of racial superiority and ethnic cleansing. The other is a blanket term given to sporadic groups that show up at major protests. Antifa isn’t a communist revolution. Not sure where you got that information. 

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Extreme fascism showed us what it was with the Nazi's, not good.

If you’re going to compare antifa to Nazi Germany, you’re woefully mistaken. 

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  Ben Shapiro is not trying to bring it back.

Why bring up Ben Shapiro?

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Antifa has incited violence, much like the fascist brownshirts when the Nazi's took power.

There is a world of difference between Nazi Germany and Antifa. One was an actual military force of a country that was bent on world domination by any means, who murdered millions of innocent civilians, the other is a faceless assortment of groups, who do incite violence in situations where there is already violence. 
 

One is inherently racist, the other is not. 

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Thats where they miss the point, they themselves are being fascists by silencing any kind of opposing voice like Ben Shapiro,,...

People who interrupt that twerp during his speeches are usually excessively rude and thoughtless university students who are ill informed and incapable of listening to a differing viewpoint. They too, are twerps, but standing up and trying to drown out a speaker is just dumb. It shows their inability and lack of maturity. 

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You have to be out of your mind to call him a Nazi....

Who calls Shapiro, who’s Jewish, a Nazi?

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They do and they brought weapons to his rally and incited violence, not a smart group of revolutionaries.

What was this incident? 

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29 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

One is born of the ideological ideals of racial superiority and ethnic cleansing. The other is a blanket term given to sporadic groups that show up at major protests. Antifa isn’t a communist revolution. Not sure where you got that information. 

If you’re going to compare antifa to Nazi Germany, you’re woefully mistaken. 

Why bring up Ben Shapiro?

There is a world of difference between Nazi Germany and Antifa. One was an actual military force of a country that was bent on world domination by any means, who murdered millions of innocent civilians, the other is a faceless assortment of groups, who do incite violence in situations where there is already violence. 
 

One is inherently racist, the other is not. 

People who interrupt that twerp during his speeches are usually excessively rude and thoughtless university students who are ill informed and incapable of listening to a differing viewpoint. They too, are twerps, but standing up and trying to drown out a speaker is just dumb. It shows their inability and lack of maturity. 

Who calls Shapiro, who’s Jewish, a Nazi?

What was this incident? 

it's explained in the Crowder/Rogan videos no one has enough time to watch, in the page over. Here's Shapiro, wiping the floor with them.

 

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30 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Who calls Shapiro, who’s Jewish, a Nazi?

My guess would be you already answered your own question Phil :lol:

 

31 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

People who interrupt that twerp during his speeches are usually excessively rude and thoughtless university students who are ill informed and incapable of listening to a differing viewpoint. They too, are twerps, but standing up and trying to drown out a speaker is just dumb. It shows their inability and lack of maturity. 

 

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I haven't looked much at the guy, so I haven't seen anything about him personally that bothers me to the extent that he deserves all of this toxicity. But I sure run into a lot of his followers online that end up being pretty reprehensible. I'm aware they don't represent all his fans. But I see enough of them that the Jordan Peterson brand is kinda tainted for me, even if I am neutralish on the guy.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/7/2020 at 7:11 PM, bishopshodan said:

My best friend likes him. I don't know much about him. I heard a bit about the pronoun stuff. My friend says the same thing I have read already in this thread a few times " I don't agree with everything that he has to say..." 

 

As someone that doesn't follow him, can anyone that likes him tell me... what are some of the things he has to say that some of you disagree with? 

Bill C-16 enshrines the rights of transgender or gender-diverse Canadians by including them under human rights and hate-crime laws, which basically means they just get the same treatment as anyone else. For example you can no longer fire someone for being transgendered which seems reasonable enough if you ask me.

 

Jordan Peterson made it out to be like he was going to go prison for misgendering people, when to this day not a single person has served a day in prison for misgendering anyone.  

 

Here is a quote that essentially sums up how he felt about C-16: "at the vanguard of a post-modern, radical leftist ideology that I detest, and which is, in my professional opinion, frighteningly similar to the Marxist doctrines that killed at least 100 million people in the 20th century." I'm sorry but this... this is lunacy. The man speaks as if Stalin sent people to the gulags for misgendering people or something.

 

This is hugely misleading and antagonistic. Think about it. if you're a staunch JBP fan is this going to improve your opinion of transgendered people or worsen it? These people already get plenty of flak, just leave them alone please. 

 

He misconstrues philosophers like Derida, Foucault and Marx; he rolls feminism, marxism and some other nonsense into what he calls cultural marxism, or Post-modern neo-marxism, or whatever, a phrase that doesn't even make sense since Marxism is incompatible with postmodern views, as Marxism itself is a narrative that sees the world structured in a certain way.

 

More disturbingly, cultural marxism is a direct descendant of what the Nazis called cultural bolshevism.

 

He has done a butt load of damage to the way people think about Marx based on his outrageous, often incoherent and fallaciously contrived statements and attacks. There is nothing good to say about this kind of behavior.

 

If listening to the advice he has is a positive then that's great. I'm not going to hold it against anyone in particular and at the very least I hope very much that the man doesn't inspire anyone to hold and then follow through on such extremist rhetoric, the details and context of which JBP fans may not have even been aware of. Its actually been a couple years since I've kept track of the guy so I suppose its possible that he has amended some of these views which would be fantastic.

 

Quote

As someone that doesn't follow him, can anyone that likes him tell me...

 

Edit: Sorry I dont actually like the guy I missed that part :bigblush:

 

 

Edited by Red Light Racicot
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2 hours ago, butters said:

I haven't looked much at the guy, so I haven't seen anything about him personally that bothers me to the extent that he deserves all of this toxicity. But I sure run into a lot of his followers online that end up being pretty reprehensible. I'm aware they don't represent all his fans. But I see enough of them that the Jordan Peterson brand is kinda tainted for me, even if I am neutralish on the guy.

Its very strange that you say that don't look much at the guy yet the word reprehensible is your dictionary :wacko:

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The left has become a cancerous insane asylum. Jordan Peterson, like Ben Shapiro and Candace Owens and Charlie Kirk and others are a refreshing light in a world turning dark. People need to have thicker skin and a stronger spine rather than trying to make the entire world around them a safe space. News flash, your feelings aren’t that important. 

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6 hours ago, Red Light Racicot said:

He has done a butt load of damage to the way people think about Marx based on his outrageous, often incoherent and fallaciously contrived statements and attacks. There is nothing good to say about this kind of behavior.

The comments he makes about Marx that I've heard are far from outrageous, and incoherent.  I'm really not sure where this came from.  He actually makes a lot of good points when it comes to Marxism.

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