THN: More explosive and shocking allegations against junior hockey in newly filed lawsuit

[stawns]

21 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

BCHL? Path to college and free education? 

Best of both worlds? 

granted this was the early 90's, but on the bus on the way home frm a coast trip, back to Vernon, the vets, with full support of the coaches, had all the rookies (about 5-6) undress, pile into the tiny little washroom at the back of the bus.  They then called the rookies out and made them walk down the aisles of the bus, touching their toes as the rest of the players smacked their naked bodies with their shoes........to the front of the bus and back.  They then put them back into the washroom, tied their clothes together in a big knot and threw them into the packed washroom.

 

I was the only vet who refused to participate and I was released about a week later

Edited June 20, 2020 by stawns

[Ghostsof1915]

8 hours ago, stawns said:

granted this was the early 90's, but on the bus on the way home frm a coast trip, back to Vernon, the vets, with full support of the coaches, had all the rookies (about 5-6) undress, pile into the tiny little washroom at the back of the bus.  They then called the rookies out and made them walk down the aisles of the bus, touching their toes as the rest of the players smacked their naked bodies with their shoes........to the front of the bus and back.  They then put them back into the washroom, tied their clothes together in a big knot and threw them into the packed washroom.

 

I was the only vet who refused to participate and I was released about a week later

Yikes. Hazing is vile. Good on you for doing the right thing. 

[Fan since 82]

This makes me mad and sad. Why do people have to inflict abuse on others to make themselves feel better. If I was a parent of a player who went through that I'd go effin ballistic! To think that some of our current favorite Canucks players may have gone through this, and possibly contributed to it as well...it almost takes away the enjoyment of the game for me.

[Hairy Kneel]

3 hours ago, Fan since 82 said:

This makes me mad and sad. Why do people have to inflict abuse on others to make themselves feel better. If I was a parent of a player who went through that I'd go effin ballistic! To think that some of our current favorite Canucks players may have gone through this, and possibly contributed to it as well...it almost takes away the enjoyment of the game for me.

And to think that some nobody's that never made the pro's inflicted this on future players.

[Fan since 82]

2 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

And to think that some nobody's that never made the pro's inflicted this on future players.

Nobody's or somebodys it's all sad.

[grandmaster]

Change needs to be implemented from the top down. Zero tolerance for any form of abuse. People need to be fired and examples need to be made. They need to also promote an environment for the kids to safely come forward and not be worried about being cut loose by the team and or league as punishment. 

[HKSR]

On 6/18/2020 at 8:01 PM, 24K PureCool said:

Not surprised. We are talking about a bunch of immature hot-blooded teenage boys spending pretty much all of their waking moments together.

Yes, but what about the adults involved (coaches, etc)?  These are the guys that are in a LOT of trouble here.  We're talking adults with minors... this is basically child abuse at a significant level.

[Amebushi]

Don’t worry, “there are no systemic problems in Canada.”  This is disturbing and needs to be dealt with. Kids do some upsetting things to each other but it’s up to the adults involved to end it, not encourage it. If even some of these allegations prove true there better be some sweeping changes and jail time involved. 

[Toews]

56 minutes ago, Amebushi said:

Don’t worry, “there are no systemic problems in Canada.”  This is disturbing and needs to be dealt with. Kids do some upsetting things to each other but it’s up to the adults involved to end it, not encourage it. If even some of these allegations prove true there better be some sweeping changes and jail time involved. 

No ifs unfortunately.

Quote

CARCILLO’S FORMER TEAMMATES BACK UP HAZING AND SEXUAL ASSAULT ALLEGATIONS

Former Sarnia Sting goalie Ryan Munce corroborated everything Daniel Carcillo alleged in his hazing/sexual abuse class action lawsuit against the CHL because he said the same things happened to him. In fact, he said it left him so troubled that he became suicidal

...

https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/carcillos-former-teammates-back-up-hazing-and-sexual-assault-allegations

[GB5]

This is truly disgusting. Back in the day all guys did was shave their hair, top and bottom of course but now this??

 

 

[Amebushi]

14 minutes ago, Toews said:

No ifs unfortunately.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/carcillos-former-teammates-back-up-hazing-and-sexual-assault-allegations

I honestly never really doubted it, but I do believe in innocent until proven guilty...this is sickening. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

On 6/22/2020 at 1:00 PM, Toews said:

No ifs unfortunately.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/carcillos-former-teammates-back-up-hazing-and-sexual-assault-allegations

And even more players coming out with supporting statements regarding abuse. 
 

So far, we have

 

(1) Dan Carcillo and Garrett Taylor

https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/more-explosive-and-shocking-allegations-against-junior-hockey-in-newly-filed-lawsuit

 

(2) Ryan Munce

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4924124 (2018)

 

(3) Charles Amodeo

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/11/28/more-sarnia-sting-alum-open-up-about-alleged-hazing-in-early-2000s/

 

(4) Eric Guest

https://london.ctvnews.ca/mobile/ohl-to-investigate-after-london-area-hockey-player-details-alleged-hazing-in-online-video-1.4986071

 

(5) David Pszenyczny

https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/im-just-lying-on-the-table-taped-and-im-thinking-did-that-just-really-happen-carcillo-teammate

 

(6) an unnamed former WHL player (this one is a tough read)

https://www.tsn.ca/whl-investigating-abuse-claims-by-former-player-1.1489379?tsn-amp&__twitter_impression=true

 

(7) Dan Fritsche 

https://theathletic.com/1889350/2020/06/25/dan-fritsche-says-he-was-also-abused-in-junior-hockey-will-join-daniel-carcillo-lawsuit/?amp#click=https://t.co/XdIgYOreDj

 

(8) Rich Clune

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/rich-clune-hockey-nhl

 

(9) an anonymous player who was a perpetrator of abuse

(10) Additional players mentioned by agent Allan Walsh:

So far, we have the Sarnia Sting, Kitchener Rangers, Lethbridge Hurricanes, the unnamed WHL team, and other unnamed CHL teams.

 

And also the Akim Aliu story re: player abuse and racism with the Windsor Spitfires. 
 

Plus the allegations out of Red Deer, and the resulting “circling of the wagons” to shut down the story and protect the Sutters.
 

I’ve also heard similar stories out of Erie and London, although nothing on the record yet (that I’ve seen anyway).
 

I’m sure there are others I’m missing, and more that will come out in the coming weeks.

[stawns]

On 6/22/2020 at 1:03 PM, GarthButcher5 said:

This is truly disgusting. Back in the day all guys did was shave their hair, top and bottom of course but now this??

 

 

read my post above, that's not all that was done

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

On 6/22/2020 at 1:03 PM, GarthButcher5 said:

This is truly disgusting. Back in the day all guys did was shave their hair, top and bottom of course but now this??

 

 

That would be sexual assault. The forced shaving of someone else’s private area more than qualifies, under Canadian law.

That level of hazing might not seem like a big deal to many of us, but for some, such instances of abuse can be extremely traumatizing and have lasting impacts on their mental health.
 

 

1 hour ago, stawns said:

read my post above, that's not all that was done

 

On 6/19/2020 at 7:03 PM, stawns said:

granted this was the early 90's, but on the bus on the way home frm a coast trip, back to Vernon, the vets, with full support of the coaches, had all the rookies (about 5-6) undress, pile into the tiny little washroom at the back of the bus.  They then called the rookies out and made them walk down the aisles of the bus, touching their toes as the rest of the players smacked their naked bodies with their shoes........to the front of the bus and back.  They then put them back into the washroom, tied their clothes together in a big knot and threw them into the packed washroom.

 

I was the only vet who refused to participate and I was released about a week later

I’m of a similar vintage to you, and while I never played hockey at that level, I did play other sports, as did most of my friends, and the same kind abuse was pretty widespread in my day, and with pretty much all of the team sports (basketball, rugby, volleyball, etc). I also had friends who played junior hockey, and they all have similar stories (especially when it comes to bus trips and “hotboxing”).

 

For me, there was a group of players (most of them multi-sport, star players, and on several teams) who made it their goal to subject every player on their team to getting “pantsed.” For most of us, this was just a one time thing, kinda embarrassing, and then you moved on. But for some, it was pure terror. I had one friend who was a very small guy and clearly hadn’t “developed” yet, and he was absolutely terrified. He took to wearing multiple pairs of underwear and tying up his shorts so tight that he had cuts and bruises around his belt line. I told the coach about the issue and he laughed it off, suggested my friend should lighten up, and that I was being a bad teammate by calling out the perpetrators by name (which was no secret as the coach and several other adults had already witnessed repeated instances). Nothing was done. I shut up and kept my head down from that point on. Another guy tried to fight them off (and he succeeded the first time). Next time, he got jumped by a group, sucker punched, and then they ripped his shorts and underwear off, in full view of the girls’ team (they had practice at the same time) and several adults (coaches and teachers). Nothing was done. Another guy happened to be quite hairy (which I guess they discovered through the first pantsing—and this also led to vicious taunting). He wasn’t a popular player, so he got it really bad. One time he was attacked in the dressing room, stripped naked, and duct tape was applied to his entire private area, front and back. He told the coach. Nothing happened. Other than the abuse just increasing. He spent the rest of high school getting jumped by his teammates on pretty much a weekly basis. 
 

Two of the guys who got some of the worst abuse ended up committing suicide before they turned 20. They may have had other issues, but I think the abuse they suffered at the hands of teammates was definitely a contributing factor in their deaths. Who know how many others are still traumatized and have mental health impacts to this day. Or how many more suicides are still coming (it seems like I hear about a new one every time I catch up with my friends from back then).

 

This **** has got to stop.

[stawns]

18 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

That would be sexual assault. The forced shaving of someone else’s private area more than qualifies, under Canadian law.

That level of hazing might not seem like a big deal to many of us, but for some, such instances of abuse can be extremely traumatizing and have lasting impacts on their mental health.
 

 

 

I’m of a similar vintage to you, and while I never played hockey at that level, I did play other sports, as did most of my friends, and the same kind abuse was pretty widespread in my day, and with pretty much all of the team sports (basketball, rugby, volleyball, etc). I also had friends who played junior hockey, and they all have similar stories (especially when it comes to bus trips and “hotboxing”).

 

For me, there was a group of players (most of them multi-sport, star players, and on several teams) who made it their goal to subject every player on their team to getting “pantsed.” For most of us, this was just a one time thing, kinda embarrassing, and then you moved on. But for some, it was pure terror. I had one friend who was a very small guy and clearly hadn’t “developed” yet, and he was absolutely terrified. He took to wearing multiple pairs of underwear and tying up his shorts so tight that he had cuts and bruises around his belt line. I told the coach about the issue and he laughed it off, suggested my friend should lighten up, and that I was being a bad teammate by calling out the perpetrators by name (which was no secret as the coach and several other adults had already witnessed repeated instances). Nothing was done. I shut up and kept my head down from that point on. Another guy tried to fight them off (and he succeeded the first time). Next time, he got jumped by a group, sucker punched, and then they ripped his shorts and underwear off, in full view of the girls’ team (they had practice at the same time) and several adults (coaches and teachers). Nothing was done. Another guy happened to be quite hairy (which I guess they discovered through the first pantsing—and this also led to vicious taunting). He wasn’t a popular player, so he got it really bad. One time he was attacked in the dressing room, stripped naked, and duct tape was applied to his entire private area, front and back. He told the coach. Nothing happened. Other than the abuse just increasing. He spent the rest of high school getting jumped by his teammates on pretty much a weekly basis. 
 

Two of the guys who got some of the worst abuse ended up committing suicide before they turned 20. They may have had other issues, but I think the abuse they suffered at the hands of teammates was definitely a contributing factor in their deaths. Who know how many others are still traumatized and have mental health impacts to this day. Or how many more suicides are still coming (it seems like I hear about a new one every time I catch up with my friends from back then).

 

This **** has got to stop.

That wasn't fun, but the truly messed up situation was in Portland.  When I got there the first thing the vets told me was do not, ever ever ever, go into the GM/Owners office without a teammate with you, under any circumstances.  I quickly realized why.......Brian Shaw was a predator and the players all knew it and looked out for one another.  It wasn't just Shaw either, it was systemic within their scouting organization..........we didn't have a draft back then, we were recruited and the guy who recruited me was a creeper of the highest degree and used that power to take advantage of kids 13-14-15 years old.  He tried several times to get me to come to hotel rooms etc and I never, ever even gave him the time of day outside of the hockey rink or without my parents..........he set off alarm bells immediately.

 

https://archive.macleans.ca/article/1997/1/20/darkening-the-hockey-dream

 

"Meanwhile, several former WHL players charged that longtime Portland Winter Hawks owner Brian Shaw, who died of AIDS-related cancer in 1993, repeatedly propositioned players during his long career coaching and managing junior teams. Shaw, who also coached the Edmonton Oilers of the now-defunct World Hockey Association, allegedly lured the boys with gifts, trips to Las Vegas and promises to help their careers. Two league executives said they had concerns about Shaw at the time and told then-commissioner Ed Chynoweth, but that nothing was done. Chynoweth, now general manager of the WHL’s Edmonton Ice, denied hearing anything more than rumors. “If I had proof [Shaw] molested a player,” Chynoweth said, “I certainly like to think I would have stepped in and gotten more information."

Edited June 26, 2020 by stawns

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

“If I had proof [Shaw] molested a player,” Chynoweth said, “I certainly like to think I would have stepped in and gotten more information."

The whole thing is ****ed up, but this statement, wow. 

 

If he had PROOF of molestation, he’d “like to think” he’d step in and get “more information?”

 

I’d like to think these guys would do lot more than that, with proof or abuse, but sadly, it seems more common for them to do nothing.

[stawns]

Just now, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

The whole thing is ****ed up, but this statement, wow. 

 

If he had PROOF of molestation, he’d “like to think” he’d step in and get “more information?”

 

I’d like to think these guys would do lot more than that, with proof or abuse, but sadly, it seems more common for them to do nothing.

I know a few ex Winterhawks who never recovered from the trauma of playing for him.  It was always the players with unstable families who didn't have a good support system, he targeted and preyed on them.  It was an ugly, scary situation there and I got out as soon as I could.

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

The whole thing is ****ed up, but this statement, wow. 

 

If he had PROOF of molestation, he’d “like to think” he’d step in and get “more information?”

 

I’d like to think these guys would do lot more than that, with proof or abuse, but sadly, it seems more common for them to do nothing.

I knew a guy who played about 6-7 years ahead of me, but always came back to Vernon to play in the pro-Am league and I was on his team.  He was drafted 8th overall and was on the path to being a star.............he was an alcoholic by the time he left junior and never recovered.  I can't say for sure that's why, but that was the story around him and once I got there I had no doubt it was true.  Another one of my good friends, and an absolute superstar in Jr when they were winning all their Mem Cups has never recovered from it from what I know was a long history of abuse at the hands of Shaw and at least one of the scouts.

 

The whole thing ruined Jr hockey for me and who knows how many others

[Fanuck]

6 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

 

I’d like to think these guys would do lot more than that, with proof or abuse, but sadly, it seems more common for them to do nothing.

Exactly sid.  Shows you the true nature of these pigs.  Their only concern is to protect their 'old boys club' at all costs - and I hope it all comes crashing down and costs them a lot.

[stawns]

Just now, Fanuck said:

Exactly sid.  Shows you the true nature of these pigs.  Their only concern is to protect their 'old boys club' at all costs - and I hope it all comes crashing down and costs them a lot.

how do you prove it though.  he was smart about it.........when there was more than one of us, there was nothing nefarious, it's when he got you alone.  He knew it would be your word against his and who would believe a teenager over a respected hockey guy?  Most kids just hid it because he was the key to their hockey dreams.........he could make or break you.