SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, The Lock said: Honestly, thinking about it, I don't see the whole "he wasn't given a fair shot" argument. 1) How much time is a "fair shot"? 15 minutes per game? 18 minutes per game? 20 minutes per game? How much? 2) When, in most projects history (and yes, Goldy's been a project) has it worked out past the time Goldy's been on the team for? 3) If we gave Goldy more time, who on the time will be given less time and, subsequently, not be given a "fair shot"? It has to be someone. There's only 12 forward spots available any given night. If you want to talk about Goldy not being given a fair shot, then please also mention who shouldn't have been put in that position instead because that's just as relevant. I think he got a decent enough shot. He just wasn’t quite good enough. The question is whether or not “yet” should be added to the last sentence. When you isolate the numbers for Goldy playing with Pettersson, the stats were encouraging. The “with/without” numbers suggested both players saw a boost in their performance when playing together versus apart. And Goldy profiled (at least underlying) as a top-six winger. He just didn’t quite yield enough raw points. Maybe if he hadn’t shot high and wide on a bunch of chances, maybe if he hadn’t run a bit hot and cold, maybe if the shooting percentages for his linemates were a little kinder to him, etc. He came close, but he didn’t quite show enough raw production as a fairly one dimensional, skilled, offensive producer. Had he scored at ~50 points per season pace, I doubt Green cares much about missed backchecks or perimeter play. He leaves Goldy in the lineup because he scores. But there just wasn’t quite enough production, especially on a consistent, night to night, basis to justify keeping Goldobin a staple on Petey’s wing. Plus the addition of Miller was about as resounding a death knell as you can get, when it comes to Goldy’s chances to lay claim to a winger spot on the Canucks top line. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacious Crumb Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 37 minutes ago, drummer4now said: Meh another Shirokov type player bytes the dust.. Fedor Federov and Steve Kariya come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 hour ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: Canucks gave up a 5th for the rights to Philip Larsen. Basically the Dman version of Goldobin, in terms of a player who couldn’t quite catch on in the NHL by age 24, went over and put up numbers in the KHL for two seasons, and then earned NHL interest (and a pick for the Oilers, who had qualified him and still held rights). If Goldobin can manage to be a top scorer in the KHL, I think teams will have interest, and be willing to pay at least a mid-round pick for his services. Goldy might very well have a similar trajectory to a guy like Dadanov, who got a fairly good look in NA during his early twenties, but didn’t really catch fire as a professional until his mid twenties in the KHL, and now has returned to the NHL and scored 182 points over the past three seasons. EDIT: Basically, with Goldobin, I think the player and the team were in a tough spot. Goldy has elite skill, but hasn’t been able to prove consistency at the NHL level. Based on what we saw from him, both when deployed as a top-6 in Vancouver, and from his Utica play, he’s currently around a half point per game NHL forward, when played in a scoring role. That’s not quite enough for him to hold onto a spot in the Canucks’ top-six. Given his deficiencies, he probably needed to show around 50 points/82 games scoring to guarantee himself a top-six NHL spot by age 24. He just wasn’t quite there yet. I think he does have the potential, as his game matures, and hopefully he gains consistency, to become maybe a 50-60 points per season, playmaking winger, which is a player most teams have room for in their top-six (even if they “don’t play physical” and “don’t play defense”). Top scorer is a tall task and if he can accomplish that, good on him. Larsen, I would suggest, what a shot in the dark for a player that is more sought after as a puck moving dman as opposed to a moderate scoring winger with not a lot of other attributes. If he can find another level to his offense, then that will garner more interest indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 2 hours ago, The Lock said: Maybe. However, what coach is actually "perfect"? I feel like some people search for the "perfect coach" but if that coach ends up being a unicorn bathing in a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, is that a realistic pursuit at that point? willie was a horrible coach green has done a lil better but still hasnt made playoffs we will see green should be giving virtanen more ice time over plugs like sutter eriksson but thats just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, canuktravella said: willie was a horrible coach green has done a lil better but still hasnt made playoffs we will see green should be giving virtanen more ice time over plugs like sutter eriksson but thats just my opinion As long as you're not blaming Green for not making the playoffs, because if it was up to the coach on whether a team makes the playoffs or not no matter who is in front of them, we might as well have a shootout with just the coaches minus the players. lol In my opinion, if players are playing well, you play them more. It shouldn't matter whether it's Virtanen or Eriksson or the water boy. Remember when Goldobin scored in (I think it was) his first game for us and WD stopped playing him? Yeah. Opposite of that. And if it was Eriksson who played like that I'd still say the exact same thing getting after WD for not playing Eriksson more. Play who's playing well at that time. Edited April 14, 2020 by The Lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 2 hours ago, The Lock said: As long as you're not blaming Green for not making the playoffs, because if it was up to the coach on whether a team makes the playoffs or not no matter who is in front of them, we might as well have a shootout with just the coaches minus the players. lol In my opinion, if players are playing well, you play them more. It shouldn't matter whether it's Virtanen or Eriksson or the water boy. Remember when Goldobin scored in (I think it was) his first game for us and WD stopped playing him? Yeah. Opposite of that. And if it was Eriksson who played like that I'd still say the exact same thing getting after WD for not playing Eriksson more. Play who's playing well at that time. ya greens overtime deployment is as bad as willies regular game deployment its bush league and thats how we lose games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthycanuck Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 On 4/13/2020 at 8:30 PM, canuktravella said: ya greens overtime deployment is as bad as willies regular game deployment its bush league and thats how we lose games Seriously go watch some sesame street or stop typing your responses with your feet. Gees, show that at least you have a grade 2 equivalent education. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the grinder Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 On 4/13/2020 at 3:50 PM, drummer4now said: Meh another Shirokov type player bytes the dust.. yep the 2 nd coming of fedor federov , goldy plays too pretty , hangs on to the puck way too long at the blue line and then coughs it up 85% of the time , won't or can't battle to get the puck back ., hoglander or podi can take his place on the depth chart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 18 hours ago, filthycanuck said: Seriously go watch some sesame street or stop typing your responses with your feet. Gees, show that at least you have a grade 2 equivalent education. so your saying green doesnt lose us games in overtime and shoot out because he plays sutter and eriksson and roussel over petey virtanen and gaudette. I guess you dont watch the games then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 On 4/13/2020 at 2:24 PM, canuktravella said: ya in 2 yrs sorry you missed my sarcasm you post as if you are the canucks always in 1st tense i find it bizarre so suggested you (yourself personally) can sign him not sure why you identify so closely with the hockey organization in vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlemonger Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Not surprised. It was over for Goldy when we got Lievo and Pearson. Good luck in Russia, bud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassbs Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 On 4/13/2020 at 8:55 PM, canuktravella said: willie was a horrible coach green has done a lil better but still hasnt made playoffs we will see green should be giving virtanen more ice time over plugs like sutter eriksson but thats just my opinion Wait til everyone is healthy. Eriksson will be first in by press box! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 2 hours ago, sassbs said: Wait til everyone is healthy. Eriksson will be first in by press box! i think most of our players other than leivo are healthy now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassbs Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, canuktravella said: i think most of our players other than leivo are healthy now And ferland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 13 hours ago, sassbs said: And ferland ferlands probably one hit away from retiring hes done for yr dont see him coming back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, canuktravella said: ferlands probably one hit away from retiring hes done for yr dont see him coming back be nice if he could be a warrior for playoffs but its mot fair to him and his future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) Might have already been mentioned but isn’t he technically still under contract with us? If the season resumes wouldn’t he technically still be under contract with us? Would be funny to see him called up if they were in the playoffs to sit in the press box one more time. Or better yet somehow a get into game and light it up. Edited April 23, 2020 by DeNiro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 In my opinion, the arrival of Miller sealed Goldobin's fate with the organization. I think he could still land somewhere in the NHL with another organization or team, but as for the Canucks - Miller was on pace for over 30 goals this season before the pandemic hit and the league had to cut the season short. Miller's also relatively good defensively as well. Goldobin I had a hard time ever hitting 30 goals, let alone being good defensively. He did improve his defensive game but not enough to the point where Green trusted him. Miller played a lot on the ice before the pandemic. It's obvious that Green trusts Miller to be on the ice at all times. Goldobin? It's pretty obvious Green didn't trust him, and only played him because at a point in the organization's state, they didn't have offensive weapons. With Miller's arrival, and now and hopefully long term - Toffoli - as well, he's as good as done. Too much depth, and Goldy just doesn't bring enough either offensively or defensively. He's, unfortunately, the odd man out. I like him. I wish him well, and wish he could've worked out here. Unfortunately, it wasn't meant to be. I hope he crushes it in the KHL, and maybe gets an opportunity back one day with an NHL team. He has NHL aspirations and dreams, just like any young man who desires to play in the greatest league in the world. I wish him well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 On 4/22/2020 at 8:15 PM, DeNiro said: Might have already been mentioned but isn’t he technically still under contract with us? If the season resumes wouldn’t he technically still be under contract with us? Would be funny to see him called up if they were in the playoffs to sit in the press box one more time. Or better yet somehow a get into game and light it up. Yeah, I'm not sure if Goldobin's still under contract. Maybe until the end of this season. But we all know that this season could be a write off, with all this COVID-19 stuff. Either way, I don't see him donning Canucks colors ever again, either this season (if it ever resumes) or next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 On 4/17/2020 at 1:32 PM, canuktravella said: ferlands probably one hit away from retiring hes done for yr dont see him coming back Yeah, same here. I'm of the mind that Ferland's probably not going to be medically cleared for physical contact, especially with the way he plays the game. If he doesn't change the way he plays, then I'm not sure he ever comes back. Even if he does change the way he plays, hockey is by nature a very physical sport - so even if he does return, and changes the way he's played. He's one hit away from retirement. I think the Canucks will save some money on Ferland assuming he isn't able to play and retires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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