Timbermen Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, tas said: improvement statistically isn't an indicator of improved work habits. if he's still a lazy, crappy teammate, which we don't know because we're not at practice or in the room, putting up 40 pts a year instead of 25 doesn't redeem that. The problem with what you're saying is some of us watched every single game on tv or live this season, including preseason. i was at the Ottawa preseason game where the Canucks were coming of a split squad, The games before Green had the Canucks at home and N Brown coached the squad in Calgary. In the game in Calgary, Virtanen had 2 goals including the overtime winner and was first star of the game. This was a depleted mostly AHL Canucks squad against a stacked Calgary team at home. Virtanen was given first line and PP unit time. The next game was the Ottawa game in Jakes hometown, Abby, Green played him 5 minuets on the fourth line. Also watched both Boeser and Fantenberg get obliterated with dirty hits without any type of response other than their PP was incredible that game. Thats when began to suspect there was something up with Green and his benching of Virtenan. It was like the performance in Calgary didn't matter because he wasn't there. Thats good coaching? You call him a lazy, crappy team mate but there is no evidence of that in the games we watched. He looked lost early on and started to find his game when they finally started to play him more than 8 minutes. He was always one of the first to stand up for his team mates going back to that Stecher hit that sparked a brawl TB. That is not evidence of a crappy team mate. There is an argument that he comes into camp out of shape but i can't help but call Green for BS on this after seeing that Ottawa game, i think both the Ottawa and Calgary pre-season game were radio only so i see how this is lost on most people. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Green has given him accountability but also rewards him when playing well. He is the one who gets bumped up on wing usually, he got second PP time and did well on it when he was in shape and playing better. To say he only gets the stick is not true. Half the players on this team JB has signed saying they need veteran leadership and a good part of the reason he keeps bringing players that are better professional athletes than hockey players. It isn't because Bo hasn't embraced professionalism and what it means to be a professional athlete nor Elias nor Brock nor Quinn. It isn't hard to draw a line that intersects with Jake. That being said, not all athletes are built the same and some need more periods of recovery and can't periodize as long as some. One of the things that worries me about Green's mantra of young guys progress in the offseason is that they won't get the rest periods they need to be able to peak at different times. Jake clearly has a lot of fast twitch muscle and may need periods of recovery more than some of the other players. The NHL essentially requires peak fitness and the ability to handle extensive travel for 8+ months with injuries being the only real chance for rest. I would generally like to see young players have periods of rest built into the schedule. That being said I suspect Jake's primary fitness related issue is that he just hasn't put in the work to build the aerobic base he needs to keep him in peak fitness. That sort of work is boring and time intensive, something that wouldn't really seem to sit well with Jake's personality. That is just a guess though. What I want is a healthy fit Jake in the lineup. When he is going he has a game built for the playoffs, especially if he gets engaged more. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, Timbermen said: The problem with what you're saying is some of us watched every single game on tv or live this season, including preseason. i was at the Ottawa preseason game where the Canucks were coming of a split squad, The games before Green had the Canucks at home and N Brown coached the squad in Calgary. In the game in Calgary, Virtanen had 2 goals including the overtime winner and was first star of the game. This was a depleted mostly AHL Canucks squad against a stacked Calgary team at home. Virtanen was given first line and PP unit time. The next game was the Ottawa game in Jakes hometown, Abby, Green played him 5 minuets on the fourth line. Also watched both Boeser and Fantenberg get obliterated with dirty hits without any type of response other than their PP was incredible that game. Thats when began to suspect there was something up with Green and his benching of Virtenan. It was like the performance in Calgary didn't matter because he wasn't there. Thats good coaching? You call him a lazy, crappy team mate but there is no evidence of that in the games we watched. He looked lost early on and started to find his game when they finally started to play him more than 8 minutes. He was always one of the first to stand up for his team mates going back to that Stecher hit that sparked a brawl TB. That is not evidence of a crappy team mate. There is an argument that he comes into camp out of shape but i can't help but call Green for BS on this after seeing that Ottawa game, i think both the Ottawa and Calgary pre-season game were radio only so i see how this is lost on most people. the performance in Calgary didn't matter because it was a meaningless split squad preseason game. again, practice and gym habits determine roster positions, at least for this team, and that's how it should be. basing it on putting up a few points is a great way to assemble a terrible loser team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax- Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Green has given him accountability but also rewards him when playing well. He is the one who gets bumped up on wing usually, he got second PP time and did well on it when he was in shape and playing better. To say he only gets the stick is not true. Half the players on this team JB has signed saying they need veteran leadership and a good part of the reason he keeps bringing players that are better professional athletes than hockey players. It isn't because Bo hasn't embraced professionalism and what it means to be a professional athlete nor Elias nor Brock nor Quinn. It isn't hard to draw a line that intersects with Jake. That being said, not all athletes are built the same and some need more periods of recovery and can't periodize as long as some. One of the things that worries me about Green's mantra of young guys progress in the offseason is that they won't get the rest periods they need to be able to peak at different times. Jake clearly has a lot of fast twitch muscle and may need periods of recovery more than some of the other players. The NHL essentially requires peak fitness and the ability to handle extensive travel for 8+ months with injuries being the only real chance for rest. I would generally like to see young players have periods of rest built into the schedule. That being said I suspect Jake's primary fitness related issue is that he just hasn't put in the work to build the aerobic base he needs to keep him in peak fitness. That sort of work is boring and time intensive, something that wouldn't really seem to sit well with Jake's personality. That is just a guess though. What I want is a healthy fit Jake in the lineup. When he is going he has a game built for the playoffs, especially if he gets engaged more. Fast twitch muscle?? Huh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergioMomesso Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 If Green ain't gonna play Virt this weekend, might as well be done with him and send him packing in the off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbermen Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said: Fast twitch muscle?? Huh I think it means jock itch. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbermen Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, SergioMomesso said: If Green ain't gonna play Virt this weekend, might as well be done with him and send him packing in the off season. Agreed, i wonder who the next coachwill be? Edited July 31, 2020 by Timbermen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax- Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Timbermen said: He should find other ways at doing it rather than creating a media clown show, he never has a good word to say about him and JB always has to do the damage control in the media. Green uses the media to shame Virtanen and lets them run with speculation while doing nothing to elevate it. Lousey coach, can't wait till he gets demoted back to Utica. Fire Green! Demote Green, Lousey coach! Media clown show? Wow, all this before our first meaningful game in years Go canucks go 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said: Fire Green! Demote Green, Lousey coach! Media clown show? Wow, all this before our first meaningful game in years Go canucks go That's nothing, you should see what people are saying about Jake V. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwags Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Virtanen has no one but himslef to blame if he can't get into this lineup. This is. what, his 6th camp? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 40 minutes ago, Timbermen said: The problem with what you're saying is some of us watched every single game on tv or live this season, including preseason. i was at the Ottawa preseason game where the Canucks were coming of a split squad, The games before Green had the Canucks at home and N Brown coached the squad in Calgary. In the game in Calgary, Virtanen had 2 goals including the overtime winner and was first star of the game. This was a depleted mostly AHL Canucks squad against a stacked Calgary team at home. Virtanen was given first line and PP unit time. The next game was the Ottawa game in Jakes hometown, Abby, Green played him 5 minuets on the fourth line. Also watched both Boeser and Fantenberg get obliterated with dirty hits without any type of response other than their PP was incredible that game. Thats when began to suspect there was something up with Green and his benching of Virtenan. It was like the performance in Calgary didn't matter because he wasn't there. Thats good coaching? You call him a lazy, crappy team mate but there is no evidence of that in the games we watched. He looked lost early on and started to find his game when they finally started to play him more than 8 minutes. He was always one of the first to stand up for his team mates going back to that Stecher hit that sparked a brawl TB. That is not evidence of a crappy team mate. There is an argument that he comes into camp out of shape but i can't help but call Green for BS on this after seeing that Ottawa game, i think both the Ottawa and Calgary pre-season game were radio only so i see how this is lost on most people. I'm not sure how to feel about you and I agreeing on something! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Qwags said: Virtanen has no one but himslef to blame if he can't get into this lineup. This is. what, his 6th camp? can you provide evidence as to why he shouldn't be? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bree2 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, hlinkas wrister said: For the record, I think a lot of this is on Jake too. But to be fair to the people arguing for him, Jake did play well when he was given top 6 opportunities and yet Green can't push him back into the bottom 6 soon enough. The one thing that drove me nuts though was Jake looks like he's much more engaged when he gets the top 6 minutes and then he goes back to looking disinterested when he isn't. On the flip side, when Boeser was demoted to the third line he may of not had success but it was obvious that he was playing hard as hell to get out of it. I know if I was the coach which one of those 2 responses I would reward. actually your right Jake started out doing very well when he played top six, but then he regressed back ,not because of Green, but because of himself, he has got to take responsibility for himself, and not blame others. he just has to keep going and play like he really wants it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbermen Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said: Fire Green! Demote Green, Lousey coach! Media clown show? Wow, all this before our first meaningful game in years Go canucks go I hope they win and Green proves himself to be a good coach. He will be sealing Virtanen's fate with the Canucks if he benches him but will also look bad if they lose. Did the same thing to Goldobin who clearly was a different player in his one game with the Canucks this year. For what, Schaller? Get the hell out of here Green. There is an argument to be made about MacEwen taking his spot and Ferland is a lock, i agree with that. If Sutter gets the spot, that doesn't seem right after the lazy offensive zone penalty and poor showing against Winnipeg. This is a double standard and how a coach loses the room. Torts was the only van coach that had the balls to play him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Green has given him accountability but also rewards him when playing well. He is the one who gets bumped up on wing usually, he got second PP time and did well on it when he was in shape and playing better. To say he only gets the stick is not true. Half the players on this team JB has signed saying they need veteran leadership and a good part of the reason he keeps bringing players that are better professional athletes than hockey players. It isn't because Bo hasn't embraced professionalism and what it means to be a professional athlete nor Elias nor Brock nor Quinn. It isn't hard to draw a line that intersects with Jake. That being said, not all athletes are built the same and some need more periods of recovery and can't periodize as long as some. One of the things that worries me about Green's mantra of young guys progress in the offseason is that they won't get the rest periods they need to be able to peak at different times. Jake clearly has a lot of fast twitch muscle and may need periods of recovery more than some of the other players. The NHL essentially requires peak fitness and the ability to handle extensive travel for 8+ months with injuries being the only real chance for rest. I would generally like to see young players have periods of rest built into the schedule. That being said I suspect Jake's primary fitness related issue is that he just hasn't put in the work to build the aerobic base he needs to keep him in peak fitness. That sort of work is boring and time intensive, something that wouldn't really seem to sit well with Jake's personality. That is just a guess though. What I want is a healthy fit Jake in the lineup. When he is going he has a game built for the playoffs, especially if he gets engaged more. I disagree. Many times he has a dominant game only to find himself relegated to 4th line duty and less than 10 mins of ice time. Im a big fan of Green, my second favourite Canucks coach, and I liked his early approach to Jake's development. However as a coach and an educator I can attest to the fact that you can only use the stick without the carrot for so long before you lose the ability to motivate that person. Jake has done nothing but improve with every season, becoming one of the most statistically consistent layers on the roster and probably the best value for the buck player on the team. Edited July 31, 2020 by stawns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwags Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, stawns said: can you provide evidence as to why he shouldn't be? Sure, he wasn't in the lineup, coach has final say. None of this matters if Jake slots in during Game 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 21 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said: Fire Green! Demote Green, Lousey coach! Media clown show? Wow, all this before our first meaningful game in years Go canucks go At least CDC is in mid-season form. Hopefully the team is there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Qwags said: Sure, he wasn't in the lineup, coach has final say. None of this matters if Jake slots in during Game 1. if he's not in the lineup for this series, one of them will be gone before the next season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedinyoureyesontheprize Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Jake Virtanen: the draft pick that keeps on giving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken. Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 37 minutes ago, tas said: the performance in Calgary didn't matter because it was a meaningless split squad preseason game. again, practice and gym habits determine roster positions, at least for this team, and that's how it should be. basing it on putting up a few points is a great way to assemble a terrible loser team. I imagine Jake would respond something like this... I mean, listen, we're talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, we talking about practice. Not a game. Not, not … Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last. Not the game, but we're talking about practice, man. I mean, how silly is that? … And we talking about practice. I know I supposed to be there. I know I'm supposed to lead by example... I know that... And I'm not.. I'm not shoving it aside, you know, like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I do. I honestly do... But we're talking about practice man. What are we talking about? Practice? We're talking about practice, man. [laughter from the media crowd] We're talking about practice. We're talking about practice. We ain't talking about the game. [more laughter] We're talking about practice, man. When you come to the arena, and you see me play, you see me play don't you? You've seen me give everything I've got, right? But we're talking about practice right now Man look, I hear you... it's funny to me too, I mean it's strange... it's strange to me too, but we're talking about practiceman, we're not even talking about the game... the actual game, when it matters... We're talking about practice … 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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