Our problem at Center beyond Pettersson and Horvat

[Canuck Surfer]

12 hours ago, CaptKirk888 said:

or maybe a duet?

I see?

 

Seems they tag teamed Lucy... 

[IBatch]

Horvats line was already taking a beating against the league best most of this season ... not sure how re-uniting them and playing them in exactly the same way is going to make much of a difference....and our first line without Miller and Roussel in his place is going to nose dive.   Miller can play second line or third line that’s probably the safest way to go but really don’t see things quite as bad.   One exhibition game where we outplayed them or at least on par most of the game ... 

 

Nothing wrong with three scoring lines if we can get to that point either ... hard to defend against that .. don’t see that happening for awhile though

 

As far as centre depth goes without Madden it’s thin ... or non-existent.   See draft picks going there and on D for the next long time .... wingers we should be sorted.  

Edited August 1, 2020 by IBatch

[Googlie]

And let's not forget that big Mac was being groomed as a center in Utica, and also Motte, who played center during his Hobey Baker finalist year

[mikeyman109]

I think too much is being read into the center depth. It isnt top of the league by any means but it is consistent enough when healthy. Depth on the wings is solid with Miller, Toffoli, Boeser, Pearson, in the top 4. The crunch comes with Eriksson needing to be gone. Virtanen , third line winger. Ferland if healthy can be a top 6 and would love to see him discover his game.

Really where this team is in big time need is on the back end. Its not getting better despite Benning making a good effort to bring in better players in Myers and Benn. Fantenberg has been my quietest surprise. Hes been a fairly serviceable bottom 5-6 and has played better than expectations. Myers has been inconsistent, Edler has stayed relatively healthy as has Tanev.  With Quinn taking over the number 1 spot we still need a very good serviceable number 2. None of the current D men are that guy. Edler is getting older and slower. His days are numbered despite playing better this season age catches up to all of us. Tanev, wow stayed healthy most of the year, who would've bet the mortgage on that

so if the top 4 d are, Hughes, Tanev, Edler, Myers, it just isn't enough at this time. OJ may fit in the top 4 but still isnt a top 2. We need one more top flight D man. Create that Keith-Seabrook type combo.

If we sign Marky, we will most likely need to move Demko for something before the ED

[-DLC-]

22 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Thank you for the feedback boys,

 

 

Ahem

[UKNuck96]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Horvats line was already taking a beating against the league best most of this season ... not sure how re-uniting them and playing them in exactly the same way is going to make much of a difference....and our first line without Miller and Roussel in his place is going to nose dive.   Miller can play second line or third line that’s probably the safest way to go but really don’t see things quite as bad.   One exhibition game where we outplayed them or at least on par most of the game ... 

 

Nothing wrong with three scoring lines if we can get to that point either ... hard to defend against that .. don’t see that happening for awhile though

 

As far as centre depth goes without Madden it’s thin ... or non-existent.   See draft picks going there and on D for the next long time .... wingers we should be sorted.  

While I agree, I would much rather get to a situation with two top scoring lines and a shut down line, and a general defensive line.

 

allows for a lot more rotation and better matchups, then trying to dilute what we have into three lines that can score a bit. (with the top two lines being rotational to a point)
 

In an ideal would I would prefer to see top line out and out scoring, second scoring with some size, third shutdown that can generate some offence (think Hanson,Kesler,Burrows from back in the day, or Niedermier and Phalson)  And a fourth line that is defensively sound and can do hard shifts in the Defensive zone, anchored by a face off specialist (aka someone like Malholtra) 
 

at the moment I agree while we have a number of players that can play centre, we have an imbalance of the right kind of centres on the team for the lines and purpose they are on

[IBatch]

34 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

While I agree, I would much rather get to a situation with two top scoring lines and a shut down line, and a general defensive line.

 

allows for a lot more rotation and better matchups, then trying to dilute what we have into three lines that can score a bit. (with the top two lines being rotational to a point)
 

In an ideal would I would prefer to see top line out and out scoring, second scoring with some size, third shutdown that can generate some offence (think Hanson,Kesler,Burrows from back in the day, or Niedermier and Phalson)  And a fourth line that is defensively sound and can do hard shifts in the Defensive zone, anchored by a face off specialist (aka someone like Malholtra) 
 

at the moment I agree while we have a number of players that can play centre, we have an imbalance of the right kind of centres on the team for the lines and purpose they are on

If we could get a third line like Niedermayer and Pahlsen I’d be over the moon.   Maholtra could do that too... 

 

Im still a bit of a traditionalist and think a 4th line full of intimidating bruisers works best.  But only if we also have a third line that can support the extra penalty minutes.  ANA could of had a mini-dynasty if that team was capable of sticking together longer.   A young Perry, Getzlaf and Penner as your third line is pretty darn sick.   Understand why Burke went ballistic when Lowe offer sheeted Penner at a ridiculous contract.   That team would have beat most Stanley Cup teams the past 30 years if their best players were a little younger and they were able to keep it together for 3-4 years.

 

We have loads and loads of potential over the next 3-7 years.   I don’t think we will be in a position to truly compete better then what we have right now for two more seasons (and that’s without any Coivid ramifications).   The lineup isn’t ideal but our forward group is on par with the deepest in the league at the moment.   17 players fully capable of playing in the top 12.  (I’m adding Bear).

 

Wont have that again with this core ever again.   JB/TG have their work cut out for them - we should be loading up the top two lines and then rolling all four lines and going with the hot hand(s) game to game.    To me luck will play into this playoff and play-in round as much as anything ... we are definitely due for some more luck.

 

Edit:  On JV.  He will absolutely play.  They will not sit him (again) unless he plays a floating uninspired game in which case he will sit again.   He’s a wild card.  So is McEwen, so is Sutter, so is ... well a lot of guys really.   LE is too.  

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by IBatch

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said:

Ahem

Lol sorry.  :-p

[UKNuck96]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

If we could get a third line like Niedermayer and Pahlsen I’d be over the moon.   Maholtra could do that too... 

 

Im still a bit of a traditionalist and think a 4th line full of intimidating bruisers works best.  But only if we also have a third line that can support the extra penalty minutes.  ANA could of had a mini-dynasty if that team was capable of sticking together longer.   A young Perry, Getzlaf and Penner as your third line is pretty darn sick.   Understand why Burke went ballistic when Lowe offer sheeted Penner at a ridiculous contract.   That team would have beat most Stanley Cup teams the past 30 years if their best players were a little younger and they were able to keep it together for 3-4 years.

 

We have loads and loads of potential over the next 3-7 years.   I don’t think we will be in a position to truly compete better then what we have right now for two more seasons (and that’s without any Coivid ramifications).   The lineup isn’t ideal but our forward group is on par with the deepest in the league at the moment.   17 players fully capable of playing in the top 12.  (I’m adding Bear).

 

Wont have that again with this core ever again.   JB/TG have their work cut out for them - we should be loading up the top two lines and then rolling all four lines and going with the hot hand(s) game to game.    To me luck will play into this playoff and play-in round as much as anything ... we are definitely due for some more luck.

 

Edit:  On JV.  He will absolutely play.  They will not sit him (again) unless he plays a floating uninspired game in which case he will sit again.   He’s a wild card.  So is McEwen, so is Sutter, so is ... well a lot of guys really.   LE is too.  

 

I agree. I think the crux of the issue is that you need two waves to be successful or have your prospects hit at the same time with a team built for them to step into (or just get lucky) 

 

we have some excellent players on ELCs and some just coming through, however it’s all landed at one time and the team isn’t quite set up ready and while we have some good prospects on the way in, it’s not a second wave of Grade a prospects. I do worry that we will end up a Middling cusp team as we don’t have enough to push on unless some capwizardey happens and our current crop of ELCs will be up for a full contract when the next few come in

[IBatch]

49 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

I agree. I think the crux of the issue is that you need two waves to be successful or have your prospects hit at the same time with a team built for them to step into (or just get lucky) 

 

we have some excellent players on ELCs and some just coming through, however it’s all landed at one time and the team isn’t quite set up ready and while we have some good prospects on the way in, it’s not a second wave of Grade a prospects. I do worry that we will end up a Middling cusp team as we don’t have enough to push on unless some capwizardey happens and our current crop of ELCs will be up for a full contract when the next few come in

To me it comes down to two things really.   How bright our stars shine in their peak (and so far EP has the stuff to be a perennial Art Ross threat in his prime) and how well our “turbo” group of young players really are.  CHI was so good for those exact reasons - their best guys were always some of the very best at their position and Kane still is, and they kept getting a crop of new guys come in year after year (and still do - Debricant got what - 45 goals two years ago?  Good grief we’d think he was the second coming of Hull if he played for us). 
 

Drafting has absolutely become the very most important part of managing an NHL team.  We’ve drafted in the top third of the league - AND also averaged around 7th to worst for a five year period.   That for sure is going to get us competitive again - maybe even this year with Markstroms evolution.   Back to your post - I do agree the next wave is going to determine where we end up. Could be in the middle - could be we are contenders.   Think somewhere inbetween ... with parity that’s all we need to get to.   Look at TB.  They were top level when we went to the final and are still doing it but haven’t won yet. 

Edited August 1, 2020 by IBatch

[UKNuck96]

Agree with that, I do feel though that the current set up does seem to reward boom and bust teams far more than those who try to keep teams together. Albeit it’s not a given, especially when you look at how long the oilers were stinking the joint out. Chicago are probably a good example of riding the wave of the boom and bust and maximising on it. They have also been very good at trading players and scouting/drafting with a focus on sting young prospects coming in. But I do think they are now a team on the side down. Will be interesting if they blow it all up in the next couple of seasons ready for a new crop of youngsters 

[CaptKirk888]

16 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I see?

 

Seems they tag teamed Lucy... 

oh..... just 'let it be'

[kloubek]

Gaudette isn't strong defensively. BUT...

 

There is nothing that says your 3rd line has to be a defensive line anymore. That is largely a model of the last era. Today, teams can have 3 scoring lines and as long as they outscore the opponents it's all good. I can see Gaudette centering a 2b style line.

 

Also, the kid is young. It is clear he has much to learn, but I feel he is the kind of guy who will give it his all to soak up all the advice he gets. He could very well be trained in the coming years to improve both his faceoffs as well as defensive acumen to be a good 2-way player in the end.

[Drakrami]

By the way, why does no one talk about the Bonino trade. Everyone just sings praises to Benning's other trades. 

 

Bonino, Clendening, a 2nd for Sutter and a 3rd

 

Bonino goes on to score 161 regular season points, 66 playoff games and a ring to boot. He is the prefect 3rd line centerman for many teams. 

We have Sutter to show for, who plays 10 minutes during our most important game of the year. 

[Junkyard Dog]

20 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

By the way, why does no one talk about the Bonino trade. Everyone just sings praises to Benning's other trades. 

 

Bonino, Clendening, a 2nd for Sutter and a 3rd

 

Bonino goes on to score 161 regular season points, 66 playoff games and a ring to boot. He is the prefect 3rd line centerman for many teams. 

We have Sutter to show for, who plays 10 minutes during our most important game of the year. 

Probably because nobody likes to dwell on the past since it gets us nowhere.

[WeneedLumme]

15 hours ago, Drakrami said:

By the way, why does no one talk about the Bonino trade. Everyone just sings praises to Benning's other trades. 

 

Bonino, Clendening, a 2nd for Sutter and a 3rd

 

Bonino goes on to score 161 regular season points, 66 playoff games and a ring to boot. He is the prefect 3rd line centerman for many teams. 

We have Sutter to show for, who plays 10 minutes during our most important game of the year. 

Probably because your fellow haters whined about it ad nauseam years ago and nobody but you hates Benning enough to have any interest in reviving that particular piece of ancient history.

[Gurn]

17 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Bonino, Clendening, a 2nd for Sutter and a 3rd

 

That third was used to draft Will Lockwood.

[Patel Bure]

21 hours ago, Drakrami said:

By the way, why does no one talk about the Bonino trade. Everyone just sings praises to Benning's other trades. 

 

Bonino, Clendening, a 2nd for Sutter and a 3rd

 

Bonino goes on to score 161 regular season points, 66 playoff games and a ring to boot. He is the prefect 3rd line centerman for many teams. 

We have Sutter to show for, who plays 10 minutes during our most important game of the year. 

As a Benning fan, I will admit that the Sutter-Bonino trade was likely ill advised.   While I think the motivation behind it was correct (ie the Canucks getting a RH center to take the defensive pressure off Henrik and Bo, while also having the ability to play 2 line C In case of injuries, Sutter was simply the wrong choice.   Granted, Sutter had become available and calculated risks are often necessary if/when certain players become available, but I think Benning May have jumped the gun here.

 

Having said that, I definitely understand as to why they moved Bonino.  While Bonino is an excellent 3rd line center, he proved that he could not really do well playing any higher in the line-up.   Given that the Canucks wanted to insulate Horvat a little more (ie Not putting Horvat into a position where he’d have to take on tougher match ups and more defensive reponsibilites), they made the move.   At the point in Horvat’s career, he needed to be put into more offensive situations while receiving 3rd line minutes (behind Henrik and whoever the new guy was going to be), and Bonino had simply proven that he wasn’t 2nd line calibre.

 

unfortunately for Benning, Sutter didn’t end up being that guy either and so that falls directly on Benning and our Pro Scouting Management. 

[cuporbust]

On 7/31/2020 at 12:41 AM, Canuck Surfer said:

Gawd had 33 points in 59 games. His productivity is on the upswing.

 

Gets to be sheltered behind Bo who is approaching Selke nominations, just 24 years old.

 

Beagle has 2 more years to go, can kill penalties & take secondary defensive draws.

 

Why worry? 

I think the point was that third line centers should be defensively talented.  Gaudette s points dont matter if that's the topic of discussion.  Scoring on the third line is great, but not exactly what a third lines first priority is supposed to be. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by cuporbust

[cuporbust]

On 8/4/2020 at 3:12 PM, Drakrami said:

By the way, why does no one talk about the Bonino trade. Everyone just sings praises to Benning's other trades. 

 

Bonino, Clendening, a 2nd for Sutter and a 3rd

 

Bonino goes on to score 161 regular season points, 66 playoff games and a ring to boot. He is the prefect 3rd line centerman for many teams. 

We have Sutter to show for, who plays 10 minutes during our most important game of the year. 

Ya, and bonino sucked here. I hated him in a Canucks uninform. For whatever reason , he did not fit in here.