[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Minnesota Wild | Aug. 06, 2020 | Canucks lead series 2-1

[Gawdzukes]

17 hours ago, luckylager said:

Whatever, we killed those penalties and Myers is sending a message.

 

It's nice having a giant with a mean streak patrolling the crease. There's not a player on the wild that can stand up to him. I can see Foligno or Greenway trying, but Myers would tune either one. 

Myers has more neck muscle than I have in my entire body.

[theo5789]

2 hours ago, EdgarM said:

I think you re missing the big picture and the idea of playing as a "Team". We aren't getting pushed around and we are carrying the play. Why? because of players such as Jake, Meyers, Motte, Bo etc. 

Without them, we get knocked off the puck and the play gets dictated to us. 

The regular season is a little more forgiving and the playoffs, not so much. Smaller, skilled players have less time and space and the bigger players who can score those garbage goals are more valuable. 

We all seen what happens when these players are not present in 2011. I don't want to see a repeat of that. 

Jake has shown he can produce more when given the opportunity. This coach believes otherwise and so he is relegated to sitting on the bench or playing on the 3rd or 4th lines.

I'm not missing that big picture, but I want to know what Jake has done in his two playoff games thus far to suggest that his presence is supposedly a turning point for our team. He hasn't been an imposing figure and we didn't dress a small lineup in game 1.

 

I understand that that he adds value to the roster, he just hasn't provided it yet in the playoffs specifically beyond actually listening to the coach and being defensively responsible. Like I said before, I know what Jake has done in the regular season and have actually projected him into a bigger role next year (to the chagrin of some others), but he hasn't been warranted of the praise that's he's been getting that his insertion into the lineup is what has caused us to be a better team.

[luckylager]

28 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Myers has more neck muscle than I have in my entire body.

Imagine the damage if he were to headbutt someone!

[aGENT]

22 minutes ago, luckylager said:

Imagine the damage if he were to headbutt someone!

 

[EdgarM]

27 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I'm not missing that big picture, but I want to know what Jake has done in his two playoff games thus far to suggest that his presence is supposedly a turning point for our team. He hasn't been an imposing figure and we didn't dress a small lineup in game 1.

 

I understand that that he adds value to the roster, he just hasn't provided it yet in the playoffs specifically beyond actually listening to the coach and being defensively responsible. Like I said before, I know what Jake has done in the regular season and have actually projected him into a bigger role next year (to the chagrin of some others), but he hasn't been warranted of the praise that's he's been getting that his insertion into the lineup is what has caused us to be a better team.

"Puck Possession". When you look at a player like Jake and a player like Gaud, the big difference is the ability to control the puck instead of chasing it. Put Gaud in the corner with a Wild player with the puck and who do you think comes out of that corner with the puck? Now do the same with Jake. 

Now picture those two players going to the net(power forward style). Now stand them both in front of the net. See where I am going? Sutter is the right choice going forward, as the 3rd line center and should have been the choice in game 1. 

The Sedins effectiveness was seriously diminished when they were roughed up and tighter checking was upon them. Now picture that with an inexperienced player such as Gaud. Gaud is going to be good, no doubt, that will come as he develops.

As I have mentioned many of times, Jake has the potential to do way more but he is being reeled in by his "Daddy" Green. Like many posters keep saying.....FREE JAKE!!!! 

[Brovat]

17 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Yes I'm aware of what Jake has done during the season, but there must be a reason why he was not chosen for game 1. Speculation was he didn't come to camp in shape (which could perhaps be true still considering he's getting minimal minutes in his two games). Or another reason could be that he was caught in a couple of questionable incidences during the covid break and maybe missing game 1 was the team imposed punishment. Personally I think Jake/Ferland/MacEwen were all fighting for one spot and Ferland simply won out.

 

Whatever the reason, game 1 was rough and there may have been some nerves and bad luck that even having Jake in the lineup wouldn't have made a difference anyway (especially his usage over these last couple of games) and thus no sweep talk. I don't know if Jake is playing a bit tentative, but MacEwen made his 5 minutes of ice time count. I think Virtanen will still be significantly impactful at some point in these playoffs, but he hasn't quite been yet. I certainly do not consider his addition as being a major reason for our team turning things around from game 1.

I’m certainly not suggesting we won only because Jake got in the line up. 

[IBatch]

On 8/6/2020 at 6:03 PM, Robert Long said:

every coach has their annoying quirks. But the way this  team plays hard for each other is all culture and thats a big credit to Green for sure. 

Yep.   I don’t think TG is the perfect coach for this team - but he’s the devil we know and you don’t fire a coach for overachieving.   If we missed the play-ins entirely then yeah I’d be disappointed and wondering why we should keep him ... but also know that players can muster a lot more IF the coach has the room.    TG hasn’t lost the room .... and he’s the type of coach that works in today game - Torts is only still around because he modified his style - the same way Hitchcock did to keep his job (and he’s talked quite a bit about that - having to learn how to be a counselor as part of his toolbox)...  Gen x and baby boomers did respond to disciplinary styles  ....  

 

not a great tactic these days and a very quick way to lose the room (Torts has done this twice not including Vancouver).   TG just needs to learn the tactical part of the game better...that often comes with experience.  Somehow the second line with LE works despite a lot of armchair coaches saying slot JV in.   I don’t think many of us including me know squat compared to these guys - they are the best coaches in the world (and they are privy to a lot more information then we have too).   Doesn’t mean I like everything he does because I don’t - but as long as the team is improving (which it is) and we are exceeding expectations from the supposed experts (which we are) then TG is the right coach for our team right now.   I highly doubt if we had the very best coaching available that we’d move up in the standings that much either ... 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

Myers has more neck muscle than I have in my entire body.

Myers has a condition called permanent boner neck.  Might as well use it. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by IBatch

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, EdgarM said:

"Puck Possession". When you look at a player like Jake and a player like Gaud, the big difference is the ability to control the puck instead of chasing it. Put Gaud in the corner with a Wild player with the puck and who do you think comes out of that corner with the puck? Now do the same with Jake. 

Now picture those two players going to the net(power forward style). Now stand them both in front of the net. See where I am going? Sutter is the right choice going forward, as the 3rd line center and should have been the choice in game 1. 

The Sedins effectiveness was seriously diminished when they were roughed up and tighter checking was upon them. Now picture that with an inexperienced player such as Gaud. Gaud is going to be good, no doubt, that will come as he develops.

As I have mentioned many of times, Jake has the potential to do way more but he is being reeled in by his "Daddy" Green. Like many posters keep saying.....FREE JAKE!!!! 

I think you're really selling Gaudette short here. So he's not as thick as Jake, that doesn't mean he's soft in the corners. Gaudette has that puck hound motor and doesn't shy away from board play. He certainly needs the playoff experience still, but I suspect his next game in will be much better than his first.

 

With that said, the effectiveness of the current lineup has more to do with the addition of LE (on top of the team overall stepping up). Say Gaudette was pushed out for Sutter in game 1. Our PK was atrocious and Jake wouldn't have changed that. So had LE been in the lineup in game 1, perhaps that could've been the difference in at least preventing some of the PP goals against. It's no surprise that having more vets in the lineups helps with the playoff experience. If we are talking "puck possession" and winning board battles, then actually LE is one of the best if not the best on the team (there was an article somewhere stating this).

 

So while Jake has his attributes that I agree with you, he hasn't shown it fully in these two games (I have nothing against him being in the lineup for these games just don't think he's been as impactful as some are making it out to be). Jake hasn't done much to garner more ice time. I don't believe that the addition of Jake into game 1 would've been the difference maker. And if we still lose anyway, then the conversation is moot.

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, Brovat said:

I’m certainly not suggesting we won only because Jake got in the line up. 

There certainly are posters that believe so and also believe we lost game 1 because Green chose to not go with Virtanen in the lineup.

 

I don't think Jake has done much in particularly special in these past two games beyond being responsible defensively and that could be due to Green sitting him in that first game to refocus him and make sure he's buying into the game he wants the team to play. I am glad that Jake is back in the lineup, but there is much more that he can do to actually be impactful to the outcome of the game.

[EdgarM]

38 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I think you're really selling Gaudette short here. So he's not as thick as Jake, that doesn't mean he's soft in the corners. Gaudette has that puck hound motor and doesn't shy away from board play. He certainly needs the playoff experience still, but I suspect his next game in will be much better than his first.

 

With that said, the effectiveness of the current lineup has more to do with the addition of LE (on top of the team overall stepping up). Say Gaudette was pushed out for Sutter in game 1. Our PK was atrocious and Jake wouldn't have changed that. So had LE been in the lineup in game 1, perhaps that could've been the difference in at least preventing some of the PP goals against. It's no surprise that having more vets in the lineups helps with the playoff experience. If we are talking "puck possession" and winning board battles, then actually LE is one of the best if not the best on the team (there was an article somewhere stating this).

 

So while Jake has his attributes that I agree with you, he hasn't shown it fully in these two games (I have nothing against him being in the lineup for these games just don't think he's been as impactful as some are making it out to be). Jake hasn't done much to garner more ice time. I don't believe that the addition of Jake into game 1 would've been the difference maker. And if we still lose anyway, then the conversation is moot.

Yeah we are talking about these guys and you are still try to change the subject to other players. LE now? 

I get it, you are not a big Jake fan, fine , but I see him as a key part of this core and we are a far better team with him in the line up then not. He should be in the top 6 but that's not going to happen with Green as the coach. 

Lets just agree to disagree, this is just going in circles, thanks.

[Conscience]

Wrong thread sorry 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Conscience

[theo5789]

49 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Yeah we are talking about these guys and you are still try to change the subject to other players. LE now? 

I get it, you are not a big Jake fan, fine , but I see him as a key part of this core and we are a far better team with him in the line up then not. He should be in the top 6 but that's not going to happen with Green as the coach. 

Lets just agree to disagree, this is just going in circles, thanks.

I'm discussing the play-ins, not his career so far. I've already stated several times that I believe Jake should get a bigger role next year and thus being a bigger part of the core, so I'm not sure what you're going on about me not being a big Jake fan. If we are looking objectively at just these play-ins, then Jake hasn't been mid-season form Jake. At this point in the play-ins, Jake hasn't done a whole lot more than Gaudette did in his one game so far. I expect Gaudette to be far better in his next appearance.

 

It was not simply a choice between Gaudette or Virtanen considering they're in different positions. If it was between these two, then other players are factored in when determining the lineup. I am trying to point out that LE has made a bigger impact to the lineup and would've been more of a key figure in game 1 than Jake would've been especially considering what he's done in the last couple of games which hasn't been much yet. I expect more for him as we have seen in the regular season, but there simply hasn't been much going for him to suggest he's been impactful. You're talking about puck possession and LE is the better player here. They could've swapped Gaudette for LE and they may have been even better off than having Virtanen in also. If you don't want to include him because it doesn't help your side of things, then that's up to you.

[EdgarM]

15 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I'm discussing the play-ins, not his career so far. I've already stated several times that I believe Jake should get a bigger role next year and thus being a bigger part of the core, so I'm not sure what you're going on about me not being a big Jake fan. If we are looking objectively at just these play-ins, then Jake hasn't been mid-season form Jake. What does this even mean? Explain this At this point in the play-ins, Jake hasn't done a whole lot more than Gaudette did in his one game so far. I expect Gaudette to be far better in his next appearance. Can you predict the future or something?

 

It was not simply a choice between Gaudette or Virtanen considering they're in different positions. If it was between these two, then other players are factored in when determining the lineup. I am trying to point out that LE has made a bigger impact to the lineup and would've been more of a key figure in game 1 than Jake would've been especially considering what he's done in the last couple of games which hasn't been much yet. I expect more for him as we have seen in the regular season, but there simply hasn't been much going for him to suggest he's been impactful. You're talking about puck possession and LE is the better player here. Are you sure about this? Jake is bigger, stronger and faster and actually hits They could've swapped Gaudette for LE and they may have been even better off than having Virtanen in also. Gauds a center and LE is a winger I already told you that Sutter was the better choice for 3rd line center for game 1. If you don't want to include him because it doesn't help your side of things, then that's up to you.

Your basing your arguments for the past 3 games then? Like you said, Green has kept Jake to 8 or 9 minutes and has basically put a leash on him for some reason. He will probably never be able to prove his REAL worth as he is being punished for some reason. Its all good though because TG has basically made it to his expiry date and a more experienced coach will be brought in to take the guys to the next level. Good times are ahead. 

[theo5789]

 

38 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Your basing your arguments for the past 3 games then? Like you said, Green has kept Jake to 8 or 9 minutes and has basically put a leash on him for some reason. He will probably never be able to prove his REAL worth as he is being punished for some reason. Its all good though because TG has basically made it to his expiry date and a more experienced coach will be brought in to take the guys to the next level. Good times are ahead. 

If Green has playoff success, his time won't be up as soon as you would like. MacEwen proved more of his real worth in 5 minutes of ice time than Jake has in his IMO. All I've been commenting is his game play in the play-ins so far. He simply hasn't shown what he's capable of yet. This isn't a knock on him overall, but simply pointing out that he hasn't been as impactful as some are making him out to be in the play-ins.

 

By mid-season form, I mean what he has shown he's capable of during this past season. If he wants more minutes, then he has to make the minutes he's given count and earn it.

 

Most players that are watching are raring to go when they get back in the lineup because they're itching to go. Gaudette is a gamer and he's time and time again have forced his way into the lineup through his effort.

 

Someone posted an article about players who are most likely to come out of a board battle with the puck. It was a competition amongst players in the league and LE was the only representative for us as he had the best stats in that area.

 

Yes if we are talking solely 3rd line center spot, then Sutter is likely the better option. So if that's the case, then who's was the better wing option? It would've been Eriksson in this case because the PK was the weakness in game 1 and LE helped that area much more than Jake did. So in the end, the vets that have been trashed on all year were the better playoff options because of their experience, but the young guys need the experience eventually. Gaudette got game 1 and Jake has had the next two with similar sheltered minutes. Gaudette wasn't the reason we lost game 1 just like Jake isn't the reason we won games 2 and 3.

[EdgarM]

32 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

 

If Green has playoff success, his time won't be up as soon as you would like. MacEwen proved more of his real worth in 5 minutes of ice time than Jake has in his IMO. All I've been commenting is his game play in the play-ins so far. He simply hasn't shown what he's capable of yet. This isn't a knock on him overall, but simply pointing out that he hasn't been as impactful as some are making him out to be in the play-ins.

 

By mid-season form, I mean what he has shown he's capable of during this past season. If he wants more minutes, then he has to make the minutes he's given count and earn it.

 

Most players that are watching are raring to go when they get back in the lineup because they're itching to go. Gaudette is a gamer and he's time and time again have forced his way into the lineup through his effort.

 

Someone posted an article about players who are most likely to come out of a board battle with the puck. It was a competition amongst players in the league and LE was the only representative for us as he had the best stats in that area.

 

Yes if we are talking solely 3rd line center spot, then Sutter is likely the better option. So if that's the case, then who's was the better wing option? It would've been Eriksson in this case because the PK was the weakness in game 1 and LE helped that area much more than Jake did. So in the end, the vets that have been trashed on all year were the better playoff options because of their experience, but the young guys need the experience eventually. Gaudette got game 1 and Jake has had the next two with similar sheltered minutes. Gaudette wasn't the reason we lost game 1 just like Jake isn't the reason we won games 2 and 3.

As you take this round and round again, I am thinking you really don't like to lose an argument. 

The whole argument surrounds Green not coming out with his strongest team with the players available for game 1.

Jake is one of our stronger players who is part of our young core ready to compete in the playoffs. Although Gaud has made good improvements, still not a better option for a center ahead of Sutter. You said so yourself.

Now, no matter what other player you feel should be discussed other then these two, Jake should have started game 1 and Gaud should have sat, period. 

The object is to give your team the best option to win. Green thought that it was more important to punish one of his players by sitting him because he misbehaved off the ice, regardless if he could have helped the team win or not. In the regular season?....Ok......In the playoffs?.........Maybe not. 

 

[theo5789]

36 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

As you take this round and round again, I am thinking you really don't like to lose an argument. 

The whole argument surrounds Green not coming out with his strongest team with the players available for game 1.

Jake is one of our stronger players who is part of our young core ready to compete in the playoffs. Although Gaud has made good improvements, still not a better option for a center ahead of Sutter. You said so yourself.

Now, no matter what other player you feel should be discussed other then these two, Jake should have started game 1 and Gaud should have sat, period. 

The object is to give your team the best option to win. Green thought that it was more important to punish one of his players by sitting him because he misbehaved off the ice, regardless if he could have helped the team win or not. In the regular season?....Ok......In the playoffs?.........Maybe not. 

 

If we were to have our strongest team, Jake and Gaudette would've both sat in favour of Sutter and Eriksson. Jake had a good regular season, so did Gaudette plain and simple. Either one had their pros and cons being in their lineup or not, but one had a disruptive break, the other didn't. Jake has been in games 2 and 3 and while we won, he hasn't been impactful to suggest he has made a difference in the series. Really the only difference between Gaudette and Virtanen is that we won those games the Jake has been in, but it's not as a result of Jake just like Gaudette isn't the reason why we lost either despite him not having a strong game (most of the team didn't). I disagree that Gaudette should've sat as he's had a good year as well just like Virtanen and coming in with a full healthy roster will lead to difficult decisions.

 

Green had to make a decision and any player he left out would've had its negatives towards a discussion of not icing the best lineup. One could also argue that MacEwen had a great camp and still didn't make it on opening night. We don't know everything that happens behind the scenes, but there's a reason why Green made the decisions that he has. Despite the loss in game 1, Green got the team to not dwell on it and focus on the next game.

 

We could nitpick every decision made and if we were to do that, then the addition of Eriksson and playing him in the top 6 has actually been the bolder and more impactful decision made by Green that seems to be overlooked which is why I bring him up. He continues to be underappreciated because many simply dwell on the negatives (which is being done here with Green as well).

 

Just because I don't think Jake has made much of an impact yet doesn't mean I'm not a fan of his not do I not want him to succeed. I certainly have higher expectations for him than what he's shown in the past couple of games. I hope he takes the minutes that he does get and proves that he deserves more. I want him to have a top 6 spot next year and it's on him to earn that spot before someone else takes it from him. That requires a disciplined off season and a focus on the task at hand. This is what Green wants from Jake as well and sometimes tough lessons need to be taught for certain players.

[EdgarM]

10 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

If we were to have our strongest team, Jake and Gaudette would've both sat in favour of Sutter and Eriksson. Jake had a good regular season, so did Gaudette plain and simple. Either one had their pros and cons being in their lineup or not, but one had a disruptive break, the other didn't. Jake has been in games 2 and 3 and while we won, he hasn't been impactful to suggest he has made a difference in the series. Really the only difference between Gaudette and Virtanen is that we won those games the Jake has been in, but it's not as a result of Jake just like Gaudette isn't the reason why we lost either despite him not having a strong game (most of the team didn't). I disagree that Gaudette should've sat as he's had a good year as well just like Virtanen and coming in with a full healthy roster will lead to difficult decisions.

 

Green had to make a decision and any player he left out would've had its negatives towards a discussion of not icing the best lineup. One could also argue that MacEwen had a great camp and still didn't make it on opening night. We don't know everything that happens behind the scenes, but there's a reason why Green made the decisions that he has. Despite the loss in game 1, Green got the team to not dwell on it and focus on the next game.

 

We could nitpick every decision made and if we were to do that, then the addition of Eriksson and playing him in the top 6 has actually been the bolder and more impactful decision made by Green that seems to be overlooked which is why I bring him up. He continues to be underappreciated because many simply dwell on the negatives (which is being done here with Green as well).

 

Just because I don't think Jake has made much of an impact yet doesn't mean I'm not a fan of his not do I not want him to succeed. I certainly have higher expectations for him than what he's shown in the past couple of games. I hope he takes the minutes that he does get and proves that he deserves more. I want him to have a top 6 spot next year and it's on him to earn that spot before someone else takes it from him. That requires a disciplined off season and a focus on the task at hand. This is what Green wants from Jake as well and sometimes tough lessons need to be taught for certain players.

All your "personal opinion", thanks for the discussion.

[theo5789]

Just now, EdgarM said:

All your "personal opinion", thanks for the discussion.

No different than your suggestions. Cheers.

[canuck2288]

Should be 4 minutes 

 

almost took out any eye