Jim Benning Proved Me Wrong

[Kevin Biestra]

4 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

It was a Play-in series was it not? Win and get in

Much how it is at the end of every past regular season in a tight race

 

No, not very much at all like randomly distributed games against other teams when you're close to making the playoffs with a few games left.

 

Almost identical, however, to a best of five playoff series (e.g. the first round in decades past) where the winner of the series moves on and the loser does not.

[Ballisticsports.]

4 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

No, not very much at all like randomly distributed games against other teams when you're close to making the playoffs with a few games left.

 

Almost identical, however, to a best of five playoff series (e.g. the first round in decades past) where the winner of the series moves on and the loser does not.

My point is that other teams that were clearly in the playoffs, never had to play the play-ins

It felt like a playoff, because it was against the same team, and was only that way because of the pandemic and not feasible or practical to have many teams 

They took the bubble teams and had them decide, obviously because of covid, costs, motels etc, they couldn't have all the teams play, and we had the play-in series

You are giving the current team more accolades  for actually not making the playoffs, and having to qualify for them, than if they had clearly made the playoffs, and never had to play those games in the first place by counting play -ins are you not?

 

 

[Kevin Biestra]

6 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

My point is that other teams that were clearly in the playoffs, never had to play the play-ins

It felt like a playoff, because it was against the same team, and was only that way because of the pandemic and not feasible or practical to have many teams 

They took the bubble teams and had them decide, obviously because of covid, costs, motels etc, they couldn't have all the teams play, and we had the play-in series

You are giving the current team more accolades  for actually not making the playoffs, and having to qualify for them, than if they had clearly made the playoffs, and never had to play those games in the first place by counting play -ins are you not?

 

No, I'm not giving them more accolades.  They do have the benefit of more playoff stats, but the round robin teams had extra games that counted as well.

 

I am giving them credit for winning a round they wouldn't have had to win otherwise, yes.  It's a weird situation and one-off probably.  In my mind they won two playoff rounds but it's definitely not as good as winning two rounds in other years where you're thus in the Stanley Cup semifinal.

 

I agree that winning the play-in round isn't better than earning a bye and not having to play it.  But they still won a round and I can't really frame it otherwise.

[IBatch]

51 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

No, I'm not giving them more accolades.  They do have the benefit of more playoff stats, but the round robin teams had extra games that counted as well.

 

I am giving them credit for winning a round they wouldn't have had to win otherwise, yes.  It's a weird situation and one-off probably.  In my mind they won two playoff rounds but it's definitely not as good as winning two rounds in other years where you're thus in the Stanley Cup semifinal.

 

I agree that winning the play-in round isn't better than earning a bye and not having to play it.  But they still won a round and I can't really frame it otherwise.

Well said.   Yes they did.   Under unusual circumstances too.  Given the names on the cup that didn’t have to play 4 rounds of 7 to get their names on it, not to mention pre-expansion when there were less teams then one division today, the season was shorter and you could suck but still win the cup.... Vancouver truly did just play 17 playoff games and during it go on a five game winning streak.   It’s was quite the ride.   Tyler Minors finally making us not look like pansies as far as push-back goes - plus of course EP not backing down an inch - or even BB not avoiding a thing.  Then Horvat “what are you going to do about Horvat?”  Someone has to make a meme about that.   Couple of losses and our fickle fan base was heading off the cliff.  Then we beat the champs.    
 

The last phase was about as hard to watch as any hockey I can remember.   We had zero business making it to game seven ... but we did - and for sure it was the icing on the cake.   Demko played the best three games in a row I’ve ever witnessed a Canucks goalie do in the playoffs.   Every Canuck that had a game during that run deserves a stat.   From the 3-0 loss to the well 3-0 loss book ending it.    The core guys drove the bus despite no or very limited (Horvat) experience.   Highly doubt that’s the best we’ve seen from them.   Which is the kicker. 

[Ballisticsports.]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Well said.   Yes they did.   Under unusual circumstances too.  Given the names on the cup that didn’t have to play 4 rounds of 7 to get their names on it, not to mention pre-expansion when there were less teams then one division today, the season was shorter and you could suck but still win the cup.... Vancouver truly did just play 17 playoff games and during it go on a five game winning streak.   It’s was quite the ride.   Tyler Minors finally making us not look like pansies as far as push-back goes - plus of course EP not backing down an inch - or even BB not avoiding a thing.  Then Horvat “what are you going to do about Horvat?”  Someone has to make a meme about that.   Couple of losses and our fickle fan base was heading off the cliff.  Then we beat the champs.    
 

The last phase was about as hard to watch as any hockey I can remember.   We had zero business making it to game seven ... but we did - and for sure it was the icing on the cake.   Demko played the best three games in a row I’ve ever witnessed a Canucks goalie do in the playoffs.   Every Canuck that had a game during that run deserves a stat.   From the 3-0 loss to the well 3-0 loss book ending it.    The core guys drove the bus despite no or very limited (Horvat) experience.   Highly doubt that’s the best we’ve seen from them.   Which is the kicker. 

It was very similar to watching the Canucks against the Islanders in 1982, the team was clearly out skilled, but hard work and mostly Brodeur got the Canucks to where he did

[IBatch]

50 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

It was very similar to watching the Canucks against the Islanders in 1982, the team was clearly out skilled, but hard work and mostly Brodeur got the Canucks to where he did

From what I remember the tides kind of separated and lesser clubs won which helped a little as well.   That said we did tie the first game 5-5 and go to OT, the second game was also close 6-4, then scoring dried up.   A little different then allowing 2 goals in 3 games right?    Get the outmatched thing and Broduer was definitely the King for us.   Back then I was just as stoked about players stats, moustaches and hair I was about who was winning cups.   Plus was already in full Wayne Gretzky love mode.    It was nutty.   He’d just scored 92 goals, second up against all-time great Bossy with 64...oh and 120 assists.   More assists then all but 4 others had points.     He was also a plus 80.    Take away Mike Bossy and Stastny  (or include them for that matter) - it was embarrassing.    Like putting EP on a Junior B team now.   That’s how much better he was then everyone else.   Appreciate Ovi and all he’s done, but he’s already shot more pucks them WG did his entire career - what he did made hyperbole seem understated.    Bossy, Stastny and Hawerchuk were all world Crosby like talents in their own rights - imagine a league now with McDavid like Stastny or Hawerchuk and then some freak scoring 80-90 more points and you get Gretzky.  
 

On the NYI.  Potvin might just be the most complete defenseman ever, him or Borque but I’d give the edge to Potvin.  That team was incredible the fact we scored 10 goals against them to their 18 isn’t too shabby.    And the games weren’t blow outs either.   And cool uniforms to boot. 

[Ballisticsports.]

37 minutes ago, IBatch said:

From what I remember the tides kind of separated and lesser clubs won which helped a little as well.   That said we did tie the first game 5-5 and go to OT, the second game was also close 6-4, then scoring dried up.   A little different then allowing 2 goals in 3 games right?    Get the outmatched thing and Broduer was definitely the King for us.   Back then I was just as stoked about players stats, moustaches and hair I was about who was winning cups.   Plus was already in full Wayne Gretzky love mode.    It was nutty.   He’d just scored 92 goals, second up against all-time great Bossy with 64...oh and 120 assists.   More assists then all but 4 others had points.     He was also a plus 80.    Take away Mike Bossy and Stastny  (or include them for that matter) - it was embarrassing.    Like putting EP on a Junior B team now.   That’s how much better he was then everyone else.   Appreciate Ovi and all he’s done, but he’s already shot more pucks them WG did his entire career - what he did made hyperbole seem understated.    Bossy, Stastny and Hawerchuk were all world Crosby like talents in their own rights - imagine a league now with McDavid like Stastny or Hawerchuk and then some freak scoring 80-90 more points and you get Gretzky.  
 

On the NYI.  Potvin might just be the most complete defenseman ever, him or Borque but I’d give the edge to Potvin.  That team was incredible the fact we scored 10 goals against them to their 18 isn’t too shabby.    And the games weren’t blow outs either.   And cool uniforms to boot. 

Yes I remember having no chance against winning a Cup with Edmonton, and a lesser degree Flames in our division

Like you it was fun hockey to enjoy watching them play, who wouldn't have enjoyed paying to see that be your home team?

I remember enjoying rivalries of Oilers/Flames, Islanders/Rangers, Montreal/Quebec, now i only watch Canucks

[iceman64]

On 9/28/2020 at 12:42 PM, IBatch said:

Well said.   Yes they did.   Under unusual circumstances too.  Given the names on the cup that didn’t have to play 4 rounds of 7 to get their names on it, not to mention pre-expansion when there were less teams then one division today, the season was shorter and you could suck but still win the cup.... Vancouver truly did just play 17 playoff games and during it go on a five game winning streak.   It’s was quite the ride.   Tyler Minors finally making us not look like pansies as far as push-back goes - plus of course EP not backing down an inch - or even BB not avoiding a thing.  Then Horvat “what are you going to do about Horvat?”  Someone has to make a meme about that.   Couple of losses and our fickle fan base was heading off the cliff.  Then we beat the champs.    
 

The last phase was about as hard to watch as any hockey I can remember.   We had zero business making it to game seven ... but we did - and for sure it was the icing on the cake.   Demko played the best three games in a row I’ve ever witnessed a Canucks goalie do in the playoffs.   Every Canuck that had a game during that run deserves a stat.   From the 3-0 loss to the well 3-0 loss book ending it.    The core guys drove the bus despite no or very limited (Horvat) experience.   Highly doubt that’s the best we’ve seen from them.   Which is the kicker. 

Lmao! Fickle fan base? I'd use a bit stronger language than that but great point, most fans are clueless actually and just believe the media as if somehow they know better than anyone else but the media doesn't and those same fans end up looking like idiots.. 

Now watch as the media is saying we need a pick in this year's draft or we're screwed, which of course is b.s. because we would have had to draft a top 6 pick that hopefully looked something like JT Miller but no gaurantees that would work out anywhere near JT's calibre and personality. So we needed a top 6 upgrade and got it, that would have been this year's draft target but we don't need a top 6 forward anymore. 

 So we got what we needed.

 Now we need a top 4 D and we can trade for that, then have all our picks for next year to continue our D upgrade as we go forward but it will improve still as our farm kids get a shot.. BUT watch the panic if we don't have a draft pick, the sky will be falling for sure.. yeah it wouldn't hurt to have a high pick, however it won't slow us down if we don't, JB can still do a trade for D and sweeten it up to gain cap space but we're not in a position to absolutely have to have a pick or we're screwed, like some would like to think..

[iceman64]

On 9/2/2020 at 6:29 AM, Duodenum said:

Drafting has been good. 

 

Defensive signings and trades have been awful (Gudbranson, Del Zotto as you mentioned). 

 

Bottom six is extremely pricey and, other than Motte, have not provided the depth scoring they should at their price tags. 

 

I'll reserve judgement for after this summer and how he deals with the impending cap crunch created by the bottom six overpayments. 

Well thankfully the bottom six over payments will be here for a long time to come, as in, the mentorship they provided while they were here will be something our young guys will be using for years and years...

[IBatch]

3 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Lmao! Fickle fan base? I'd use a bit stronger language than that but great point, most fans are clueless actually and just believe the media as if somehow they know better than anyone else but the media doesn't and those same fans end up looking like idiots.. 

Now watch as the media is saying we need a pick in this year's draft or we're screwed, which of course is b.s. because we would have had to draft a top 6 pick that hopefully looked something like JT Miller but no gaurantees that would work out anywhere near JT's calibre and personality. So we needed a top 6 upgrade and got it, that would have been this year's draft target but we don't need a top 6 forward anymore. 

 So we got what we needed.

 Now we need a top 4 D and we can trade for that, then have all our picks for next year to continue our D upgrade as we go forward but it will improve still as our farm kids get a shot.. BUT watch the panic if we don't have a draft pick, the sky will be falling for sure.. yeah it wouldn't hurt to have a high pick, however it won't slow us down if we don't, JB can still do a trade for D and sweeten it up to gain cap space but we're not in a position to absolutely have to have a pick or we're screwed, like some would like to think..

No doubt.   Miller for four years in his prime minimum, plus a possibility to flip him later for - most likely - a first!  JB best move outside a few great picks.  If it was that easy 90% or the GMs would do it every single year with their first rounders.   Funny thing coincidentally I was re-reading the Hockey Writers recent top 100 prospect list..:and both OJ and Woo were in them - and they feel after Woos dominant WHL defense he’s a lock for a top 4 RHD.   It’s tough as a fan if you don’t spend the time to look into things that the media is spouting - which is their job - but maybe, just maybe, JB is right when he says we have 7 NHLers in our pool still.   4 in the top hundred...I had to stop and check myself a bit given how spoiled we’ve become with top prospects have to think it’s going to end sometime ... well apparently it’s not yet.     Whatever JB does this offseason and the next will determine both his legacy and what happens to this core.   We have a long way yet.   Ovi had two great cores took 13 years ... Hedman two great cores took 11 years.   Expecting this team to win a cup in the next 2-3 years .... well history says otherwise.   Unless we are CHI 2.0...maybe we are but too many holes.    This current core will learn the lessons they need to succeed later on. Might as well enjoy the ride.  I know I’m sure going too. Hope.   Damn JB and your hope. 

[iceman64]

8 minutes ago, IBatch said:

No doubt.   Miller for four years in his prime minimum, plus a possibility to flip him later for - most likely - a first!  JB best move outside a few great picks.  If it was that easy 90% or the GMs would do it every single year with their first rounders.   Funny thing coincidentally I was re-reading the Hockey Writers recent top 100 prospect list..:and both OJ and Woo were in them - and they feel after Woos dominant WHL defense he’s a lock for a top 4 RHD.   It’s tough as a fan if you don’t spend the time to look into things that the media is spouting - which is their job - but maybe, just maybe, JB is right when he says we have 7 NHLers in our pool still.   4 in the top hundred...I had to stop and check myself a bit given how spoiled we’ve become with top prospects have to think it’s going to end sometime ... well apparently it’s not yet.     Whatever JB does this offseason and the next will determine both his legacy and what happens to this core.   We have a long way yet.   Ovi had two great cores took 13 years ... Hedman two great cores took 11 years.   Expecting this team to win a cup in the next 2-3 years .... well history says otherwise.   Unless we are CHI 2.0...maybe we are but too many holes.    This current core will learn the lessons they need to succeed later on. Might as well enjoy the ride.  I know I’m sure going too. Hope.   Damn JB and your hope. 

Yeah I know hey? However in 2-3 years from now, I bet this team will be legit elite as JB chips away at our roster problems and some will be gone on their own and the extra money we spent to get mentors will be paying off for years ahead will have indeed paid off. 

 However just having a farm that is starting to produce is an eye opener, we've always tried to buy cups by selling out the farm which got us a good seasonal team but with next to no depth that always got exposed in the end.. 

 This is actually pretty cool for a change, I was getting down as year after year that happened but thankfully someone came along with a plan for the future, for a change. So after watching for 40 years and it never changing I'd almost given up being a fan of this team and the hope of a cup here along with it...

[CanadianRugby]

On 9/25/2020 at 7:57 AM, IBatch said:

It seems that those “foundational” placeholders finally got their time to shine this playoffs and really they didn’t disappoint.  

Delusional.

[CanadianRugby]

On 9/25/2020 at 12:43 PM, oldnews said:

from the originator of the 'Leafs are the next Blackhawks'....lol.

 

after your inevitable next dynasty just completed it's 4th consecutive 1st round exit.

 

one of the principal fluffers of the #proper-rebuild - back, in literally tone-deaf fashion, to double-down on your genius.

 

after this GM and team - the one you've mocked for the duration of their rething - just went to the 3rd round.

 

thanks for coming out, resurfacing, with your priceless one-liners about #proper-rebuilds

 

carry on mocking words like foundation or 'competiiveness' while having no concept or intent to represent what was intended by them, nor are you honestly taking any of it in context.

 

The worst team in hockey - that never drafted higher than 5th...

That had three consecutive Calder finalists.

That never got your magic bean lottery championship....and yet...

The last Canadian team standing.

er, um, it was allz azzidentalz!

 

Carry on.

If anyone should be mocking the team's achievements, you're perfectly qualified.

 

 

 

I said you need to tank and get high picks.  Which we got.  I was just losing my mind for a few seasons when I thought Benning could actually succeed at his plan of icing a competitive team.  Benning proved me wrong as we ended up the worst team in the league thank god, and we got our prospects.

 

Lol.  You were the guy that said you don't need high picks to compete.  Where's this team without Petterson or Hughes?

 

You also said losing ruins young players and we'd end up like Edmonton if we lost a lot.  Yeah, are our youngsters ruined?  Doesn't look like it eh bud.  Dummy.

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

I said you need to tank and get high picks.  Which we got.  I was just losing my mind for a few seasons when I thought Benning could actually succeed at his plan of icing a competitive team.  Benning proved me wrong as we ended up the worst team in the league thank god, and we got our prospects.

 

 

 

You also said losing ruins young players and we'd end up like Edmonton if we lost a lot.  Yeah, are our youngsters ruined?  Doesn't look like it eh bud.  Dummy.

"you said", "you said"....  your need to fabricate fantasy/straw conversations is....your m.o.

You'll never find a post of mine saying "losing ruins young players". 

Try engaging with what people actually say - just quote something.

 

we can agree on something.  the bolded parts. 

 

Your highlight reel, star gazing lottery champion perspective - remains as blind as it was through all those nights you whined about every victory as if dropping a few spots in the draft order would condemn the team to mediocrity. 

 

Not on the Leaf fluff wagon any longer?  Don't see you in here much, fluffing  Dubas' "next Blackhawks", and the Shanaplan.  Go figure.

 

The guy that mocked this team's prospect pool - when EP was in it, tearing up the SWeL- claiming endlessly that it was hopelessly behind the Leafs and doomed to fail - flip, flop, is here to fluff EP now.  The ironing is delicious. 

 

 

 

[oldnews]

Quote

Red Wings general manager Steve Yzerman said. "But also we have to ice a team. We're trying to be competitive. We're trying to improve at the same time."

Ermagerd.  Bennig  Yzerman said "competitive".  /smh.

[canuck73_3]

On 9/25/2020 at 9:52 PM, kanucks25 said:

lol @ 3rd round

 

very definition of spin

How many play off rounds did the Canucks play? 

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, CanadianRugby said:

Delusional.

Yes you are, and your Leafs are awful. 

[kanucks25]

12 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

How many play off rounds did the Canucks play? 

The 3rd round always has and will be considered the semi-final AKA conference final.

 

A play-in round composed of average-to-bad teams (half of them wouldn't have even made the playoffs) in an outlier year doesn't change that. We weren't a top-4 team in the league which is what "3rd round" suggests to anyone 99.9999% of the time.

[kanucks25]

Since it's considered a fact that Benning was hamstrung by Kesler's 2-team list, I think it's only fitting that Benning acquires OEL for pennies on the dollar given his 2-team list.

 

Let's see.

[canuck73_3]

6 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

The 3rd round always has and will be considered the semi-final AKA conference final.

 

A play-in round composed of average-to-bad teams (half of them wouldn't have even made the playoffs) in an outlier year doesn't change that. We weren't a top-4 team in the league which is what "3rd round" suggests to anyone 99.9999% of the time.

No one said Conference final, they said 3rd round which this season was the truth.