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Jim Benning Proved Me Wrong

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CallAfterLife

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11 hours ago, Duodenum said:

Drafting has been good. 

 

Defensive signings and trades have been awful (Gudbranson, Del Zotto as you mentioned). 

 

Bottom six is extremely pricey and, other than Motte, have not provided the depth scoring they should at their price tags. 

 

I'll reserve judgement for after this summer and how he deals with the impending cap crunch created by the bottom six overpayments

Those of us who are Canucks fans are much more likely to judge him based on the quality of the team he has assembled, whether or not the team makes the playoffs, and how well they do in the playoffs. So of course most of us are very happy with JB right now. But I guess from your posts that those things don't matter much to you.

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26 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

Those of us who are Canucks fans are much more likely to judge him based on the quality of the team he has assembled, whether or not the team makes the playoffs, and how well they do in the playoffs. So of course most of us are very happy with JB right now. But I guess from your posts that those things don't matter much to you.

This is a silly reply and you know it. Don't waste time slinging idiotic tripe.

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2 hours ago, Petey40 said:

Letting Markstrom walk would be a massive mistake by Benning. He had 1 great game, that doesn’t mean he’s capable of being a starter and playing 60+ games a season yet. Does no one remember how awful our record was after Marky got hurt this year? You need 2 great goalies to be a great team, Marky and Demko is an awesome tandem. With Marky playing 52 games and Demko 30 it would be great experience for Demko to push for the starter position and not overwhelm him. I mean the kid has only played 37 career NHL games. Not resigning Markstrom is an awful idea IMO and would cripple the team next season.

 

Throw a pick at Seattle to not take Demko, tons of teams did that with Vegas so they wouldn’t take certain players. Holtby isn’t very good anymore and is incredibly streaky, I don’t think he’d be a good fit on this team.

It's not one good game. It is an elimination game with the season on the line and he was an absolute rock. Markstrom has had 15 games? And not once did he look anywhere near as good as what Demko did for 60 minutes. We need cap space. Throwing excess money at Markstrom is a huge mistake when Demko looks to be ready to take the reins. We are not throwing away anymore picks. Take the money you save from Markstrom get a Dman or a forward and move on. 

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42 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

It's not one good game. It is an elimination game with the season on the line and he was an absolute rock. Markstrom has had 15 games? And not once did he look anywhere near as good as what Demko did for 60 minutes. We need cap space. Throwing excess money at Markstrom is a huge mistake when Demko looks to be ready to take the reins. We are not throwing away anymore picks. Take the money you save from Markstrom get a Dman or a forward and move on. 

But it was 1 good game, elimination game or not that’s not enough to prove him to be a starter capable of handling a full NHL season. Not to take anything away from Demko cause he was awesome but he didn’t have to make any crazy game saving stops last night, Marky has done that so many times this postseason and especially in the St. Louis series. 
 

Markstrom is the biggest reason the team is here right now, in terms of regular season play and the postseason. 
 

If Demko starts next game and let’s in 4+ goals everyone on here will immediately be singing a different tune and saying he’s not there yet, this fan base is incredibly reactionary and knee jerk.
 

Throwing an awesome goalie in the deep end could ruin his development and send him backwards, I say be patient and resign Markstrom. We have a lot of talent coming from within that can sure up certain positions like defence and the bottom 6. You need 2 great goalies to win, not 1 and a mediocre backup. You can’t take 1 game as proof and say he’s ready to take the reigns. These are his regular season stats and you need more from a starter, he’ll be the starter one day but I don’t think he’s 100% ready yet.
 

2019-2020 Regular Season
GP W L OT GAA SV%
27 13 10 2 3.06

.905

Edited by Petey40
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drafting has been good.  No team can draft perfect.  (Virtanen, Juolevi) none

 

trades have been not great, but the bad trades are

 

a high 2nd and McCann for gudbranson was bad.

throwing away a 2nd rounder for Vey was bad

trading Forsling for Clendenning bad.

trading a 2nd for Baertchi bad

 

 

Trading Vanek for Motte great

Gudbranson for Pearson great

31st pick and a 3rd for Miller great too. 

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1 hour ago, Petey40 said:

But it was 1 good game, elimination game or not that’s not enough to prove him to be a starter capable of handling a full NHL season. Not to take anything away from Demko cause he was awesome but he didn’t have to make any crazy game saving stops last night, Marky has done that so many times this postseason and especially in the St. Louis series. 
 

Markstrom is the biggest reason the team is here right now, in terms of regular season play and the postseason. 
 

If Demko starts next game and let’s in 4+ goals everyone on here will immediately be singing a different tune and saying he’s not there yet, this fan base is incredibly reactionary and knee jerk.
 

Throwing an awesome goalie in the deep end could ruin his development and send him backwards, I say be patient and resign Markstrom. We have a lot of talent coming from within that can sure up certain positions like defence and the bottom 6. You need 2 great goalies to win, not 1 and a mediocre backup. You can’t take 1 game as proof and say he’s ready to take the reigns. These are his regular season stats and you need more from a starter, he’ll be the starter one day but I don’t think he’s 100% ready yet.
 

2019-2020 Regular Season
GP W L OT GAA SV%
27 13 10 2 3.06

.905

I don't know what game you want by Demko tracked the puck through screens and made everything look easy even though they were incredibly difficult saves. Just because Markstrom gets out of position and makes some "big" save doesn't mean he has played better. Markstrom has looked been all over the map these playoffs. He has been very inconsistent. You do not need two goalies to win that is ridiculous to say you need 2 goalies. When has 2 goalies worked in the playoffs? One always gets all the games.

 

Shea Theodore was the cost for The Ducks to keep their players. I am not giving up Shea Theodore quality talent to keep Demko when you can just let Markstrom walk and save a ton of cap as well. 

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21 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

I don't know what game you want by Demko tracked the puck through screens and made everything look easy even though they were incredibly difficult saves. Just because Markstrom gets out of position and makes some "big" save doesn't mean he has played better. Markstrom has looked been all over the map these playoffs. He has been very inconsistent. You do not need two goalies to win that is ridiculous to say you need 2 goalies. When has 2 goalies worked in the playoffs? One always gets all the games.

 

Shea Theodore was the cost for The Ducks to keep their players. I am not giving up Shea Theodore quality talent to keep Demko when you can just let Markstrom walk and save a ton of cap as well. 

You have to take into account the regular season, the first step is getting into the playoffs so yes you need 2 good goalies to win. You can ride 1 great goaltender in the playoffs but not for an 82 game season, it has to be a 70/30 split or a 60/40 to keep your starter in good shape and ready to go for the playoffs. I don’t want 1 single great game by Demko is what I’m saying, I want 1 or 2 great seasons before the starting position is given to him. It’s the grind of the regular season and whether or not they can handle it that defines good players, we have yet to see if Demko can handle that. Yes he may be ready to be the starter but we have no proof of that and 1 great game doesn’t change that fact, and I don’t think it’s a gamble worth taking with the direction the team is moving in. 
 

It’s insane to me that you’re discounting just how good Markstrom was this season and in the postseason, he’s fantastic positionally and doesn’t give up very many big rebounds with the addition of making huge game saving stops. 

Edited by Petey40
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27 minutes ago, Petey40 said:

You have to take into account the regular season, the first step is getting into the playoffs so yes you need 2 good goalies to win. You can ride 1 great goaltender in the playoffs but not for an 82 game season, it has to be a 70/30 split or a 60/40 to keep your starter in good shape and ready to go for the playoffs. I don’t want 1 single great game by Demko is what I’m saying, I want 1 or 2 great seasons before the starting position is given to him. It’s the grind of the regular season and whether or not they can handle it that defines good players, we have yet to see if Demko can handle that. Yes he may be ready to be the starter but we have no proof of that and 1 great game doesn’t change that fact, and I don’t think it’s a gamble worth taking with the direction the team is moving in. 
 

It’s insane to me that you’re discounting just how good Markstrom was this season and in the postseason, he’s fantastic positionally and doesn’t give up very many big rebounds with the addition of making huge game saving stops. 

This isn't one game. Stop saying one game like he played one regular season game and played well. This is an elimination game with the season on the line and he didn't get phased at all and had an incredibly game. There are plenty of veteran goalies that can be signed or traded for that will be a lot cheaper than Markstrom. How good Markstrom was this postseason? In all he has been average or slightly above. Even in games he played well in at the start of them he was very shaky, missing very easy saves.. There were games he was flat out bad in multiple times and the only reason we won was because Binnington was god awful. Against Vegas he has let in multiple weak goals. It has been an up and down playoffs for Markstrom. 

 

We aren't going to sign Markstrom to 6m+ then trade Juolevi + to keep Demko that is crazy stupid. If you think that Seattle is going to take like a 3rd/4th round pick to not take Demko you are dreaming. It will be very expensive to keep Demko and Markstrom and at the same time have Markstrom signed to a NTC which he will clearly want and leave Demko as backing him up for the next 3-4 years or being traded regardless like Anaheim did with their D. It is a stupid way to go about the expansion draft. 

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48 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

This isn't one game. Stop saying one game like he played one regular season game and played well. This is an elimination game with the season on the line and he didn't get phased at all and had an incredibly game. There are plenty of veteran goalies that can be signed or traded for that will be a lot cheaper than Markstrom. How good Markstrom was this postseason? In all he has been average or slightly above. Even in games he played well in at the start of them he was very shaky, missing very easy saves.. There were games he was flat out bad in multiple times and the only reason we won was because Binnington was god awful. Against Vegas he has let in multiple weak goals. It has been an up and down playoffs for Markstrom. 

 

We aren't going to sign Markstrom to 6m+ then trade Juolevi + to keep Demko that is crazy stupid. If you think that Seattle is going to take like a 3rd/4th round pick to not take Demko you are dreaming. It will be very expensive to keep Demko and Markstrom and at the same time have Markstrom signed to a NTC which he will clearly want and leave Demko as backing him up for the next 3-4 years or being traded regardless like Anaheim did with their D. It is a stupid way to go about the expansion draft. 

Lol I can say whatever I want, it was literally one game. He hasn’t proven he is ready to be the starter in the regular season yet, if you don’t recall let me remind you that when Markstrom went down and Demko was starter he was letting in weak goals and looked incredibly shaky almost every start. I mean come on there was only 1 game during that stretch that he let less than 3 goals in..  Those were his previous games played just before last night so why aren’t you taking that into account? It’s short sighted to not look at those and weigh the decision based on that as well. 

 

Hutchinson for Colorado just played lights out in an elimination game against Dallas as well, do you think the Avalanche should get rid of Grubaur? No, obviously not because 1 game doesn’t define a goaltender or prove they’re capable of handling the starting position in the regular season. 
 

Maybe it’s a stupid way to go about the expansion draft but maybe not, you’re also assuming it’s a guarantee that Seattle takes Demko. I believe you can expose a player with a NTC just not a NMC, so you could sign Markstrom to a 5-5.5m a year deal for 3-4 years with a No Trade Clause and then protect Demko in the draft and expose Markstrom. Which would give Demko another year of experience as a backup and if Seattle takes Markstrom then Demko has another year under his belt and is better prepared to be the starting goalie. 

Edited by Petey40
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14 hours ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Good post OP. Obviously Miller was not a UFA signing but came in a trade that many on CDC criticized. JB doing his stuff and proving the arm chair managers wrong again.

Agree, although probably Ryan Miller OP refers to...

 

Can now see its already mentioned, sorry. 
Yes JB is proving the armchair managers wrong. 

Edited by spook007
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4 hours ago, Petey40 said:

But it was 1 good game, elimination game or not that’s not enough to prove him to be a starter capable of handling a full NHL season. Not to take anything away from Demko cause he was awesome but he didn’t have to make any crazy game saving stops last night, Marky has done that so many times this postseason and especially in the St. Louis series. 
 

Markstrom is the biggest reason the team is here right now, in terms of regular season play and the postseason. 
 

If Demko starts next game and let’s in 4+ goals everyone on here will immediately be singing a different tune and saying he’s not there yet, this fan base is incredibly reactionary and knee jerk.
 

Throwing an awesome goalie in the deep end could ruin his development and send him backwards, I say be patient and resign Markstrom. We have a lot of talent coming from within that can sure up certain positions like defence and the bottom 6. You need 2 great goalies to win, not 1 and a mediocre backup. You can’t take 1 game as proof and say he’s ready to take the reigns. These are his regular season stats and you need more from a starter, he’ll be the starter one day but I don’t think he’s 100% ready yet.
 

2019-2020 Regular Season
GP W L OT GAA SV%
27 13 10 2 3.06

.905

Agree. 
Lets just imagine, we let Marky go, and Demko started to wobble? How much time are we going to waste of our new core players time line, waiting for a new goalie to emerge?

Or go out and trade for another keeper, who will likely cost the same, as Marky will (Miller cost us 6mill), without knowing if he will fit in? 
Lets see Demko mature some more before taking over the team. See if he can handle the bigger workload over a prolonged period. 
 

Binnington is a another example... was lights out last years play offs... this year not so much so.... that alone ought to give food for thoughts...

Edited by spook007
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3 hours ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

drafting has been good.  No team can draft perfect.  (Virtanen, Juolevi) none

 

trades have been not great, but the bad trades are

 

a high 2nd and McCann for gudbranson was bad.

throwing away a 2nd rounder for Vey was bad

trading Forsling for Clendenning bad.

trading a 2nd for Baertchi bad

 

 

Trading Vanek for Motte great

Gudbranson for Pearson great

31st pick and a 3rd for Miller great too. 

Would I have loved for Benning to have drafted Christian Dvorak or Brandon Montour instead of picking up Vey? Yes.

Would I have loved for Benning to have drafted Carter Hart or Sam Girard instead of throwing an extra pick in for Gudbranson? Yes.

Does Benning have a questionable trade record? Yes. 

Sutter, Gudbranson and Miller all came from teams struggling with cap space and Benning should have thrown them 3rd or 4th or 5th round picks in return. 

 

But I'm still tipping my hat to Benning for putting together a team with a culture that battles despite being considered underdogs. As I've watched the series with Vegas, the Canucks have largely been dominated but they've come out and played with a lot of pride. They haven't played safe and timid. They've played every game determined to win it. 

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Also to note, this is Benning's first tenure as a GM. Just like any of us at a new job, seems like there were mistakes and a learning curve at the beginning. He's improved at many aspects of the job and that gives me more confidence moving forward than starting from scratch with a different GM.

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18 hours ago, Duodenum said:

I was against some of the trades and signings from day 1 lol (especially trading for Gudbranson and signing Beagle at $3 mill per). If you want me to take a side now, it would basically be Miller trade and drafting good, everything else meh to bad. 

 

Nothin wrong with reserving judgement at this point for next season. This offseason has some big decisions to make. 

 

Term is a big problem as a lot of contracts aren't expiring until the year after our star player ELC contracts are up. 

 

When I hear people complaining about the bottom six nobody ever bothers to include who Benning should have put in there instead and for how much. When Sutter was brought in he was an upgrade over Bonino and was capable of playing higher-up in the lineup. We had zero internal options or expendable assets to aquire a true 2c without setting back the rebuild.

Beagle at 3 million is fine and again we had nonody in the system and what would we have saved by signing a worse player? A million? Rouselle was signed like the other 2 as a placeholder and at the time he was better than what we had in the system and let's face it, nobody expected the team to be winning 3 rounds and 2 wins away from the conference finals this soon just like nobody was prepared for the cap to stay flat when it was expected to go up as much as 7 million.  Without any moves other than Ferland going on LTIR, Benning still has 23 million in cap, if he signs all 3 ufas and no contracts are moved it might cost us Stech and possibly Jake but with them expected to get 3 mill each in arbitration, is that such a bad thing? I don't see Either as part of the future with guys like Podz, Hogs, Woo Rathbone Joulevi etc most likely on the roster the next 2 seasons.  

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3 hours ago, CallAfterLife said:

Would I have loved for Benning to have drafted Christian Dvorak or Brandon Montour instead of picking up Vey? Yes.

Would I have loved for Benning to have drafted Carter Hart or Sam Girard instead of throwing an extra pick in for Gudbranson? Yes.

Does Benning have a questionable trade record? Yes. 

Sutter, Gudbranson and Miller all came from teams struggling with cap space and Benning should have thrown them 3rd or 4th or 5th round picks in return. 

 

But I'm still tipping my hat to Benning for putting together a team with a culture that battles despite being considered underdogs. As I've watched the series with Vegas, the Canucks have largely been dominated but they've come out and played with a lot of pride. They haven't played safe and timid. They've played every game determined to win it. 

And they tell him to get lost... then what?... Do we know for sure there wasn't other clubs showing interest in the players  mentioned, Miller in particular?

If you want a player, you have to pay, what the club wants, unless you are prepared to lose out on the player.

 

Regardless glad to hear you've changed your opinion... 

 

Edited by spook007
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21 hours ago, Darius said:

Benning is not perfect, but hes far from the incompetent guy some try to portray him as (see HF Boards Canucks for thousands of posts regarding this matter)

 

The arguments can go back and forth all day.  At the end of the day I think that for the first time in 50 years this org has excellent young players in all of the critical positions 1c, 1d, goal and 2c.   This is mostly due to how this org has drafted in the last 6-7 years. Its like having the rubic's cube all lined up in the critical positions and now all you need is a few complimentary moves to finish the puzzle.  In my mind there are 2-3 holes left to fill and this team will be a force for years to come.

 

 

 

 

Good take.   And for anyone complaining about our “expensive vet” give your head a shake - there is a two year window IF you manage to draft a couple stars back-back that you can load up with playoff type warriors that are often  huge upgrades on the cheap replacements that come later.   Just ask TO or half the teams that didn’t make it.   Quality depth matters too.  Nobody should be complaining about Sutter, Roussel or Beagle.   First in face offs ... wonder why?  Stupid.   We wouldn’t have made it last MIN without them.   Because of the team JB built we actually have a rare opportunity to get a little wider window early on - something three teams have managed since the cap started.  CAR, CHI, PIT once each.   The ELC window is usually closed for most teams.   Not us. 
 

EDM had one crack at it with McDavid - and then had to wait until now - that’s more the norm then not the norm.

 

Plus because we’ve made it three rounds with this team these “expensive “ vets won’t be nearly as hard to move as people think.   In other words we have an exaggerated level of cap issues.   Think things are hairy now wait until we lose half the depth - better hope the drafting still matches up or things could get ugly the same way it went for EDM.     Think it will be fine.   Do believe that JB staggered his contracts with one more year of waiting in mind (or down year), the arrival of EP and having QHs in the wings changed that.   Still rather have the minor inconvenience created by it for 16 plus games of postseason.   Like losing Leivo, maybe Roussel...that’s it whoopie do. 

Edited by IBatch
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