I Believe We Would Have Won, If...

[Nuxfanabroad]

Yeah, I believe we would have beat the Lost Vegans if we'd started using our depth(esp fwds) from game 3 onwards; as well as putting TD in net for gm 4.

I bet Thatcher would have won that game #4. His 3 game brilliance makes this a reasonable statement. The team played very well that tilt, offering more run support than he seemed to need.

 

numbered pts:

 

1- We could have been probably tied at two games, maybe even UP 3-1(after the wknd). & most likely had BOTH star goalies rarin' to go.

 

2- We should have asked for 1 game off from a list of guys(Sutter, Beagle, Rous, Pearson, Toff, Gaud) inserting Mac, LouiE, Graovac & Bailey, between games #3- #6.

This would have ensured all our 4 lines were fresh as daisies.

 

3- I tried to start discussion on these ideas in that late Aug thread, running into that good ol' wall of disagreement.

 

4- I like Green as a coach, agree with 85-90% of his work, thus far. But this was a mistake. I really HOPE the franchise learns here. But who knows when we'd ever have to go 5-in-7 again?! For a physically mammoth-taxing sport like PO-puck, in these conditions, it wasn't even a Fr*cking choice. You have to use some depth here.

 

They keep saying, "Well we want to be honest with our players, & see they're honest with themselves..yada, yada."

 

I say to the coaching staff. Take this approach too. Be honest. This was a mistake. Stop stroking the shoulder of marginal vets. Use your whole team.

[stanleysteamersmyl]

I was thinking that too.  Fresh legs would have given them more energy.  They were so burnt out in game 7.  No pushback.

[aliboy]

After defeating the Blues in six games should have had more than one day off, lost our momentum in the unscheduled break, should never have had to play a game seven back to back. Regardless, huge developmental experience for our guys. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 minute ago, aliboy said:

After defeating the Blues in six games should have had more than one day off, lost our momentum in the unscheduled break, should never have had to play a game seven back to back. Regardless, huge developmental experience for our guys. 

We're not dealing the cards, nor choosing the sched. THAT is the hand you're dealt. Our responsibility(that is, coaches), is to choose how to play out that hand.

 

With all their decades of experience, this was a monumental oversight. We should be in rd 3; instead we're talking about vague and/or intangible matters such as gained experience for youth. Could have gained even more!

[NewbieCanuckFan]

If Harold Snepsts hadn't passed to Mike Bossy in game 1 of the 1982 Stanley Cup finals near the end of regulation (game then tied), I believe we would have won.

 

[Kevin Biestra]

6 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

If Harold Snepsts hadn't passed to Mike Bossy in game 1 of the 1982 Stanley Cup finals near the end of regulation (game then tied), I believe we would have won.

 

 

Wasn't it overtime?

 

Anyway, Canucks would have won that game if McCarthy and Lanz weren't injured.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Nuxfanabroad]

10 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

If Harold Snepsts hadn't passed to Mike Bossy in game 1 of the 1982 Stanley Cup finals near the end of regulation (game then tied), I believe we would have won.

 

Big difference. That's on-ice execution. Every human is prone to brain-f*rts. T'was mighty painful, no doubt. Loved Schneptsy too.

 

This is planning roster for freeken 5-in-7. This series was possibly lost off the ice.

 

I'm just your avg poster, glorified armchair-coach. But go back 10 days to that thread I referenced(5-in-7 what should we do). In b & w on page 1 I stated they NEEED to make some depth-calls & go with TD for game 4. Aug 29th..go take a gander.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Nuxfanabroad

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Big difference. That's on-ice execution. Every human is prone to brain-f*rts. T'was mighty painful, no doubt. Loved Schneptsy too.

Of all the guys on the ice though....and right 'in the slot'.  Even Brendan Gaunce would've scored.   Mike Bossy was THE most lethal sniper at the time. 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

7 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Wasn't it overtime?

 

Anyway, Canucks would have won that game if McCarthy and Lanz weren't injured.

Yeah, I'm getting old.  It was overtime.  

[Nuxfanabroad]

Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Of all the guys on the ice though....and right 'in the slot'.  Even Brendan Gaunce would've scored.   Mike Bossy was THE most lethal sniper at the time. 

 

Ironically that's who we hoped Boeser becomes! No regrets for '82. The Miracle on Manchester(Kings) made Van's Finals possible in the 1st place. They were lucky to get that far.

 

THIS roster had some '94 magic. This team could've gone farther than any of us imagined. They need some 'outside the box' thinking, with this incredibly taxing scenario.

[Tre Mac]

Well maybe if that GM you like to defend didn't have $6mil wasted in the press box this team might've had enough in the tank to win. I certainly believe that over the coach not using the bottom six(hint: They couldn't score enough and had zero possession.) enough or calling on Mac or Bailey to come in and play hero.  The vets held this team back and your boy Benning is going to have to work his ass off just from preventing this team from taking a step backwards.  Eriksson, Ferland and Sutter have no value yet will all be on the books next season.

 

Green earned his pay check after game 6 vs. St. Louis, if Willie or AV was still coaching the Nucks don't get by.  You posted in the game six thread that the Nucks were done, no mention of tapping the black aces to come in, they won that game btw.  Now you think that was a mistake by Green?  Couldn't disagree more.  We all saw the quality of hockey that was been played as a result of back to back and it wasn't good but notice Vegas had no issues starting Lehmer for game seven so I also don't buy that not starting Demko sooner would've changed the outcome - That's just 20/20 bs.  

 

Nucks sans Eriksson and Ferland lost to a better team that had $10million more in their line up.

[fanfor42]

10 Canucks had no playoff experience.  Plus Green. No playoff experience going in. That is very important to remember.

 

So he made some mistakes and they may have been big in the eventual outcome.  

 

I will say that game 1 he did not have the team ready to go.  When asked after the St. Louis series if he got everyone back to work right away he said no - we took a day off to enjoy it.  (Players and coaches). What happens - we get pasted. Rookie mistake that cost us the first game and gave Vegas their swagger.

 

Game 4 the obvious call was to start Demko but Green starts markstrom who loses and gets hurt. That's on Green. Demko would not have a groin pull as he would not have been tired. 

Same lineup game 7 following 20 hours after game 6 ended.  Again, that's on the coach. Again that cost us by having no fresh legs.  He knows his players and he made the call - that's on Green.

 

As it was we came within 6 minutes in game 7 of going to OT. So any of these decisions could have turned the tide and created a series win for Vancouver if Green had been better.

 

Gotta say, Green needs to be accountable for each of these points.  Its not sour grapes or picking on him it is simply that as a rookie playoff coach he didn't do his job as well as he could have and in many ways his shortcomings cost us.  Truth.

 

That's why there are people who aren't huge Green supporters.  He is still learning and he doesn't always do the right thing and in this case it is arguable that he contributed to the Canucks losing where a more experienced coach might have  taken the poker hand he was dealt and played his cards to a series win. (Deboer played Fleury in game 4 - he was good. They won.)

 

Just sayin. And Green lovers don't knee jerk here. I am not saying he sucks or is a lousy coach.  I am simply saying the truth.  He had no playoff experience and made some questionable decisions that he could have made better and possibly helped the team win not lose. I'm not saying we were ready to win the Cup this year.  I am simply saying that Green could have been better and as the margin of losing was slim he could have made the difference in us winning this series if he did a better job.

 

If the Canucks are going to win a cup then their young coach has to be as good as his best young players. He needs have the impact of a Petey or Quinn and not just a Virtanen.

 

To his credit - I think he would agree with this conclusion.

Edited September 7, 2020 by fanfor42

[Trebreh]

I would've put Bailey in for at least one game for Sutter against Vegas.

 

Speedy, big guy with hands...

 

Dallas dressed a guy we've never heard of for Cogliano in game 7 and he scored a hatty :(  

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

12 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

THIS roster had some '94 magic. This team could've gone farther than any of us imagined. They need some 'outside the box' thinking, with this incredibly taxing scenario.

That 1994 team had some real tough hombres.  Reaves wouldn't have tried to pull any stunts against them.

 

Of course, Gino Odjick

Momesso (underrated fighter, do NOT poke this bear)

Diduck

Dirk

Antoski

 

heh, and Pat Quinn probably still could 'throw em' then.

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by NewbieCanuckFan

[IBatch]

9 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

That 1994 team had some real tough hombres.  Reaves wouldn't have tried to pull any stunts against them.

 

Of course, Gino Odjick

Momesso (underrated fighter, do NOT poke this bear)

Diduck

Dirk

Antoski

 

The 94 team would have made Vegas look like pussycats.   Don’t forget Linden, Murzyn, Courtnall, Adams had size/grit, Hunter, Mac etc..Babych the leagues strongest man.   Not many guys under 6’2” on that roster.   Odjick was passed on for Antoski because of skating ability.   Reaves wouldn’t have liked fighting the players that were game and been a non-factor.   That roster was big.   

Edited September 7, 2020 by IBatch

[Nuxfanabroad]

Not trying to re-write the past wk, or jump into DeLorean & go back in time. We lost..oh well.

 

But there's definitely lessons to learn here. Torts was pretty good at using bodies, but of course he'd ground up the whole roster into mincemeat first. So he's a different animal from a diff planet.

 

But AV, WD-realbad & TG all have this tendency. Call up some schmoe for a Nov-Jan appearance, & you'll prob see the poor bloke in the stands. Should he dress, the guy plays 3:42 & gets benched for sneezing funny. It's predictable & tediously traumatic to watch transpire!

 

Turn over a new leaf for the love of the puck-Gawds. We no longer have to worry about our pawned-off 1st. Coach & play brave, bold, fast & furious. Roll with youth & depth in the yrs to come. Maintained this before, during & after the fact.

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Yeah, I believe we would have beat the Lost Vegans if we'd started using our depth(esp fwds) from game 3 onwards; as well as putting TD in net for gm 4.

I bet Thatcher would have won that game #4. His 3 game brilliance makes this a reasonable statement. The team played very well that tilt, offering more run support than he seemed to need.

 

numbered pts:

 

1- We could have been probably tied at two games, maybe even UP 3-1(after the wknd). & most likely had BOTH star goalies rarin' to go.

 

2- We should have asked for 1 game off from a list of guys(Sutter, Beagle, Rous, Pearson, Toff, Gaud) inserting Mac, LouiE, Graovac & Bailey, between games #3- #6.

This would have ensured all our 4 lines were fresh as daisies.

 

3- I tried to start discussion on these ideas in that late Aug thread, running into that good ol' wall of disagreement.

 

4- I like Green as a coach, agree with 85-90% of his work, thus far. But this was a mistake. I really HOPE the franchise learns here. But who knows when we'd ever have to go 5-in-7 again?! For a physically mammoth-taxing sport like PO-puck, in these conditions, it wasn't even a Fr*cking choice. You have to use some depth here.

 

They keep saying, "Well we want to be honest with our players, & see they're honest with themselves..yada, yada."

 

I say to the coaching staff. Take this approach too. Be honest. This was a mistake. Stop stroking the shoulder of marginal vets. Use your whole team.

The thing is, no one could have predicted that Demko would have played like that.  Although Demko started to play well in March after a shaky first few games when Markstrom got injured, he was still very much a question mark.  He looked like a guy that would need some more detailed experience, perhaps doing a 50-50 split somewhere else as a 1A goalie.  
 

As far as what if’s go, I don’t think there are any what if’s for this year.   Much like the 2006-2007 Canucks, we simply lost to a better team that is further along the curve than we are.   This was a good overall learning experience for us.

[JeremyCuddles]

If Ferdaddy's melon wasn't so broken and bruised. Rooster I'd argue borderline cost us two games himself. As well as being a non factor in the other 5. AND you could argue his antics game one injected life into Reeves and Lehner. Having Ferland in instead of Rooster very likely would have won us one of those 4 games we lost. I'd even argue Vegas isn't as into the series as they were just by virtue of not having Roussel out there.

[PunjabiCanucks]

If we scored 2 goals in game 7 if not more.

 

Demko playing that well was an unknown, but when we needed it our offense didnt show up as much this series. Our shots for were terrible

 

[King Heffy]

22 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

If Ferdaddy's melon wasn't so broken and bruised. Rooster I'd argue borderline cost us two games himself. As well as being a non factor in the other 5. AND you could argue his antics game one injected life into Reeves and Lehner. Having Ferland in instead of Rooster very likely would have won us one of those 4 games we lost. I'd even argue Vegas isn't as into the series as they were just by virtue of not having Roussel out there.

Reaves mostly was taking runs at Rooster instead of the rest of the team though.  That has value.