Why I’m excited to see what Benning can do for the Canucks going forward

[189lb enforcers?]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

This is kind of the point of the thread. JB has a long lasting track record of drafting outside of the first round.  It’s EDMs Achilles heel.    Also why long contending teams keep it going (TB since 2010, Boston too) ... good drafting means everything under the cap.   Don’t think we have too much to worry about given overall since JB took over we’ve drafted in the top third of the league after a level playing field is taken into account.    This is done by evaluating the best group of 21 and unders including prospect pools based on ADP (average draft position).   EDM is a minus 21.   TB wins it outright.  But Van is also top ten.   No need to worry about that end of things at all. 

Drafting at the top of each round for consecutive seasons will do that to any prospect pool.

We are short on picks going forward. Maybe he trades *foundational pieces for picks, I don’t know. 

[Tinky-Winky]

id trade markstrom, while hes worth alot, esp after his perfomance this year, and just let demko take over the reins and have one of our young kids as backup

[Pickly]

1 minute ago, x00x said:

id trade markstrom, while hes worth alot, esp after his perfomance this year, and just let demko take over the reins and have one of our young kids as backup

He’s a UFA. 

[Bure2Win]

I think we should try to hang onto Toffoi, we all found out how scoring can dry up in the playoffs when your going against a strong goalie and defense. Markstrom on the other wont be so crucial seeing as how Demko can play in big games baring any further concussion issues.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Drafting at the top of each round for consecutive seasons will do that to any prospect pool.

We are short on picks going forward. Maybe he trades *foundational pieces for picks, I don’t know. 

Depends - if your EDM it didn’t really matter as despite drafting before anyone else for an 8 year stretch they still never came close to having the best prospect pool.   Where as JB ADP around 8 overall yet he managed a top three best group of 21 and unders for a respectable plus 5-7 overall.   EDM on the other hand was a minus 21 last year based on the past four years of drafting.  

 

   Despite all the top three and first overall picks managed nothing yet.   That was my point.  Drafting high and also drafting well has changed our fortunes. And drafting high doesn’t necessarily mean your going anywhere.   Yakupov was a first overall bust and Puljajarvi a 4th overall, EDM hasn’t made a sure fire NHLer past the first round in I’m not sure how long.    Meanwhile Boston and TB have kept up to a lot of teams with a lot less to work with - TB leads the NHL drafting wise the past five years because their ADP (average draft position) is usually in the mid twenties, yet they rank around 9 each year for best 21 and unders, giving them a usually league best plus 14ish year to year.   (Boston was up there too but had slipped).  Most teams are plus or minus a couple, with the exception of EDM who’s really stunk it up.   It’s a method to level the playing field as far as evaluating clubs to each other - the only thing that makes it screwy is some clubs don’t always have all their pucks and that isn’t considered using this method.  
 

If Vancouver averages around 8 and ranks 2 for best 23 and unders it shows we’ve drafted above the league average as well as the second best we possibly could have during a five year period.  We couldn’t go up more then one more spot using this method in other words.  Another gauge is GMs expect ONE roster player per draft and hope for two.   JB has definitely exceeded that given you can’t properly evaluate drafts for three years.    EDM is by far the worst in the league although it looks they might be getting some secondary guys finally coming up.  Vancouver is firmly in the top third since JB arrived. 

[Nucker 67]

Markstrom was the MVP this season, I would consider him elite. I'm confident they'll re-sign him, even though I think Demko has a better future. Maybe Demko will be used as a trade chip to recoup the 1st they lost? Or in a trade for a Dman? Demko was outstanding in his 3 games and some teams could be very interested. However it plays out, the Canucks are going to have to select the goalie of the future. The one that will take them to the Cup. Hope they make the right decision.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Fred65 said:

We need to move on from Sutter, Beagle and Rousell to make way for youth and prepare the Cap for Pettersson and Hughes, both likely due around $10 mill each. Eriksson comes off the Cap in the end of 2022, Pettersson and Hughes get their new contract in 2021.

Sure but we have ZERO centers ready to take over.  Gaudette is not a center.  

 

So I don't see how we can move on from Sutter/Beagle without bringing some other veteran in.  What if that veteran is a s*itty character and ruins the chemistry?  Don't underestimate the value of Beagle and Sutter in the room, they're the leaders on our team besides Edler, Horvat and Tanev. 

[Guest]

I'm so glad that a lot of you aren't our GM.  

 

We'd be trading away any established player who showed a bit of success for picks.  

 

We would be the Buffalo Sabres of the last decade.  No thanks. 

[Devron]

4 hours ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

That's fair.

 

I will say that when the pieces start to come together you need to eventually change into the "win now" mindset. 

We are slowly watching these guys like Hughes, Bo, Petey, Boeser, even Miller as our core coming together and being able to hold their own for the most part.

I do agree that we shouldn't trade our prospects and picks but I think the key to this team is an upgraded and solidified bottom 6. Podkolzin, Lind, Hoglander..etc. could very well fill those roles.

 

However, you can't wait forever to be in the win now mode.

Once you've established your core and have key prospects in the system coming to bring new life into the supporting roles then its time to go for it.

 

Look at Chicago, in 2010, they had vets to play the supporting cast roles behind the Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook core and eventually got younger players to replace those depth roles in 2013 and 2015. I think it's a good template to try and emulate.

 

Exactly. Nothing wrong with Win now. But when I hear that I envision trades and signings. We are in a position to make the playoffs here on out. I just want to compete for a cup for a long time like Pittsburgh. Washington etc. I wouldn’t want to mortgage that to go all in in the next couple years

[Devron]

54 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Sure but we have ZERO centers ready to take over.  Gaudette is not a center.  

 

So I don't see how we can move on from Sutter/Beagle without bringing some other veteran in.  What if that veteran is a s*itty character and ruins the chemistry?  Don't underestimate the value of Beagle and Sutter in the room, they're the leaders on our team besides Edler, Horvat and Tanev. 

Not to mention Sutter has one year left on his contract. Makes no sense to try and “dump” him. And like you said we Need another year from him at the very least.. 
 

I wouldn’t count Gaudette out as a center yet. I think another year will do wonders for him 

[messier's_elbow]

8 hours ago, Yung1 said:

The cap situation still isn't nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. We have the assets to afford to ship out Eriksson or some other dead money. I also don't think it will take as much as people think to move Eriksson or other dead money. We might lose a prospect doing it, but as long as their name isn't Podkolzin, Juolevi, Woo or Hoglander, I think the price is worth paying (Juolevi and woo mostly because were thin on d prospects, not necessarily because elite)

 

I've proposed before Eriksson + Virtanen and a 2nd probably gets it done if you deal em to a rebuilding squad. That's actually a really nice package for a rebuilding team that isn't concerned about cap for the next couple years. And we save $8m right there.

 

No one is taking Erickson. Unless we attach Hall of famer Quinn Hughes it isn’t going to happen. 

[messier's_elbow]

2 hours ago, Bure2Win said:

I think we should try to hang onto Toffoi, we all found out how scoring can dry up in the playoffs when your going against a strong goalie and defense. Markstrom on the other wont be so crucial seeing as how Demko can play in big games baring any further concussion issues.

I disagree, Toffoli is a luxury we cannot afford. Our money/assets need to be concentrated on Defense. Signing Tanev to a decent term should be a priority.

[189lb enforcers?]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Depends - if your EDM it didn’t really matter as despite drafting before anyone else for an 8 year stretch they still never came close to having the best prospect pool.   Where as JB ADP around 8 overall yet he managed a top three best group of 21 and unders for a respectable plus 5-7 overall.   EDM on the other hand was a minus 21 last year based on the past four years of drafting.  

 

   Despite all the top three and first overall picks managed nothing yet.   That was my point.  Drafting high and also drafting well has changed our fortunes. And drafting high doesn’t necessarily mean your going anywhere.   Yakupov was a first overall bust and Puljajarvi a 4th overall, EDM hasn’t made a sure fire NHLer past the first round in I’m not sure how long.    Meanwhile Boston and TB have kept up to a lot of teams with a lot less to work with - TB leads the NHL drafting wise the past five years because their ADP (average draft position) is usually in the mid twenties, yet they rank around 9 each year for best 21 and unders, giving them a usually league best plus 14ish year to year.   (Boston was up there too but had slipped).  Most teams are plus or minus a couple, with the exception of EDM who’s really stunk it up.   It’s a method to level the playing field as far as evaluating clubs to each other - the only thing that makes it screwy is some clubs don’t always have all their pucks and that isn’t considered using this method.  
 

If Vancouver averages around 8 and ranks 2 for best 23 and unders it shows we’ve drafted above the league average as well as the second best we possibly could have during a five year period.  We couldn’t go up more then one more spot using this method in other words.  Another gauge is GMs expect ONE roster player per draft and hope for two.   JB has definitely exceeded that given you can’t properly evaluate drafts for three years.    EDM is by far the worst in the league although it looks they might be getting some secondary guys finally coming up.  Vancouver is firmly in the top third since JB arrived. 

I get you are representing the flip side of the argument, so I’ll enjoy some banter with one of my favourite posters. 
 

It was again apparent in the playoffs that having a bunch of high first rounders really helps a team win.

I thought that was pretty much a maxim, minus the occasional outlier, of course. 
 

Please, sir, citing Edmonton and their pony show “management” in any hockey argument is pretty much a non-starter to prove what might happen *if* by contrasting Edmonton having done it wrong.

 

Worst case scenario stuff like Edmonton shouldn’t be used  , neither should Milbury trade success to prove - Trade Man Bad, stuff. 

 

Collecting a bunch of top tier prospects with lottery ticket-high draft picks after having spent to the cap to be a competitive team is an inverse of Edmonton management, IMO, but it certainly improves your prospect pool. This being a serious point and reference to why the team has a bunch of high picks on it today - they certainly weren’t targeted by the GM. 
 

If we are going to talk about how wonderful it is to have a superstar U21 group, let’s not leave out how they got here, especially while praising the GM for them.
 

Placing the start line of measuring JB’s managerial success just immediately after the silly re-thingy phase ended and where the U21 group is now thriving with that great group of expensive vets requires some serious massaging of context, let alone execution of a plan... or wait, ahhh, see this is a revelation for me... I get it now, JB actually intended, like he crystal balled the future when he bought those expensive cap teams, knowing he’d get a couple superstar players out of the draft in the 5-7 range who’d literally carry this team once they were drafted... well maybe their next year or so. 

I can’t get behind that fantasy level of mastery by JB.
 

No matter how feelz-good it might be to think the U21 talent is well-insulated by a veteran group of Beagles, etc. will you see me link the past to the future as if it was all part of some grand plan. Had the draft picks come before the first bunch of UFA madness, I could have understood the move/switch, much like I agreed with the Miller, Ferland, Giraffe moves last year. 
 

Put it this way, which other teams are up there, say top 7, for under 21 talent have spent to the cap, hired top flight goalies (Miller), announced they’ve fixed the PP (Game + Delzaster), found a third twin  (LE), have foundational players (Mr. Balls), etc., to end up with the same under 21? 

 

We are all happy to have what we have for talent these days. It took some to select EP and QH at the draft, agreed, luck too, but it’s my lasting and lonely position on here that JB had absolutely no intention of selecting high in those consecutive drafts , where playoff teams are apparently built, and these unintended consequences should be remembered as such.
 

He gets credit for the selection, but not for the path to that draft position. 
 

Am I exited to “see what JB can bring”?

Meh.
 

Quite a bit has to go right at this point to see any improvement on this aging roster of support players. 

Health being the premier concern and unexpected success these past months might cloud that fact on here. 

 

Hog and Pod are exciting pieces. Their arrival dates are less important than their impact playing days, not just cap-wise, but scoring relief as Miller and co wear down. 
 

The D is where I am least confident that the team will replenish its quality. You can only have so many sub 6’0 and 200lb Dmen, let alone a middling bunch of ho-hum, and not all that young either, prospects. I know some guys are 6’2, but they don’t play like it. There are a few bright spots who have to make that jump from prospect to NHLer and we both know the odds of that happening, and happening a few times as is the expectation consensus in here today. 

 

In net the team has plenty of breathing room even if they part out one goalie. Personally, I’d consider trading Demko. You can always buy a great NHL goalie in UFA. Why trade for one, let alone draft and groom them, but I digress with that aside. The Canucks are deep in the net position. Doesn’t that seem like a trick or a dream... so not Canucks luck, outside of that one year with Lou and CS, I guess. 

 

This team can not win without EP and QH. 
This team can’t gain offensive zone possession without Horvat. 
 

Those 3 players keep this team alive. Take one or two out and it’s just a bunch of a Tanner Pearsons and Meyers toiling away. The skill and the ability to pass the puck and create offence just isn’t there, regardless of systems, which I’m not touching much here. The typical response to that is that all teams suffer when their stars go down, but in our case, I think it’s much more dire a scenario and will bet analytics would prove it, but I’m too simple or lazy to do the comparables math myself. 
 

It might seem bizarre at this time, but absolutely I’d change out the coaching staff. That’d be my first step before I identified roster improvement trade opportunities.
 

If I were Aquaman, I’d be finding out what JB thinks will change. If the answer is that QH and EP will be bigger, stronger, more experienced a play more minutes, I’d fire him on the spot and select The Guardian for GM and Dumbnuck as coach. I’ll do the Pratt bit. 
 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by 189lb enforcers?

[Devron]

51 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

If I were Aquaman, I’d be finding out what JB thinks will change. If the answer is that QH and EP will be bigger, stronger, more experienced a play more minutes, I’d fire him on the spot and select The Guardian for GM and Dumbnuck as coach. I’ll do the Pratt bit.

Had to laugh at this one. Petey and Hughes were top players throughout the playoffs. Anyone in the right mind would have to fire someone if they thought a bigger and better Hughes and Petey is the answer. They are part of the solution but not the solution, takes a whole team to win.
 

I get the feeling some people just think a GM or Coach just straight up lacks any kind of intelligence by some of these types of posts.

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

32 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Had to laugh at this one. Petey and Hughes were top players throughout the playoffs. Anyone in the right mind would have to fire someone if they thought a bigger and better Hughes and Petey is the answer. They are part of the solution but not the solution, takes a whole team to win.
 

I get the feeling some people just think a GM or Coach just straight up lacks any kind of intelligence by some of these types of posts.

 

 

Posts like these?  
That’s just your read and I have mine. 
 

At least I have something to say that isn’t a repost, a tweet or a clappy regurgitated opinion about a bright future or how pretty Brock is. 

See much original thought in here? 
 

Re-thingy 

7th man and Captain goalie

Milbury

 

Ya, lots of dumb things done by GMs and posts to remind us of them. 

 

I’d not be banking on the old and oft-injured health of Edler, Tanev, Sutter etc next year, for playoff hockey. 
 

Some have argued that COVID played a minor role in the Canucks getting a crack at the playoffs, given the slide the team was on when it hit, their injury status and also their capacity to surrender big leads or just disappear for periods and games at a time. 
 

They can definitely use some management across the board. I’ll be surprised if JB doesn’t make a few big moves for the future and stay the course for now. Like I said above, I hope he starts with revamping the coaching. 


 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by 189lb enforcers?

[Devron]

7 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Posts like these?  
That’s just your read and I have mine. 
 

At least I have something to say that isn’t a repost, a tweet or a clappy regurgitated opinion about a bright future or how pretty Brock is. 

See much original thought in here? 
 

Re-thingy 

7th man and Captain goalie

Milbury

 

Ya, lots of dumb things done by GMs and posts to remind us of them. 

 

I’d not be banking on the old and oft-injured health of Edler, Tanev, Sutter etc next year, for playoff hockey. 
 

Some have argued that COVID played a minor role in the Canucks getting a crack at the playoffs, given the slide the team was on when it hit, their injury status and also their capacity to surrender big leads or just disappear for periods and games at a time. 
 

They can definitely use some management across the board. I’ll be surprised if JB doesn’t make a few big moves for the future and stay the course for now. Like I said above, I hope he starts with revamping the coaching. 


 

 

I’m not banking on a cup next year. I think the point of the entire OP was not to go out and get more vets like we’ve been doing. It got us to a point but thats as far as it can take us. We need to develop more young players to take over these rolls and the guys like Petey, Hughes will be the vets. Still very young but experienced. And that’s the way it has to happen to manage the cap. Sure add a guy here and there but let’s not spend assets for a while. I understand we may have to to move a contract but I wouldn’t go crazy. This has to be long term. We cannot afford not to win a cup with this core. It’s been too long.
 

You can hope for a coaching revamping but it’s not going to happen. I wouldn’t mind a couple assistants switched. That I could understand but Green earned every dime after we beat STL. 

 

I know I’m being mr positive here and being all bright future like you said but it factual we just made the playoffs the first time in 5 year and your post literally gives no credit to anything or anyone. Just a banter about the job JB hasn’t done. And a new coach of course. Wipe her clean cause we didn’t have a playoff caliber team to make it deep into the playoffs. But we made it more then half way. Or at least half by traditional standards. 
 

And we can argue about what JB has done or hasn’t done. But facts remain the same. He had practically nothing to work with in the beginning. He had to sign players while we waited for drafts picks and development. And now we had 2 of the best players in the entire league and made it to game 7 of the second round

[coolboarder]

It becomes easier to move out the priced veterans than before the playoffs started.  Other teams will see their worth of helping their young stars and Benning can then cash in with some of picks back and allow for other rebuilding teams with lots of cap room to use Benning's method of rebuilding team by sheltering their youth and create an internal competitions to create the cap room and other teams absorbing the cap hits just to shelter their young players.  The trades for other team is perfect as well because their contract will be off the book with just one or two seasons worth of sheltering.  Why I think it might happens, every rebuilding GM is a copycat and will look at Vancouver's method of rebuilding from 3-4 years and will use some of Benning's veterans for youth when his prospects are ready to make the team.   They will compare and look that Edmonton and Toronto history of rebuilding and took so long for them to make the playoffs by rushing their top picks to play for them asap and it backfired.  IT also create a winning culture when you do not tank at end of season despite missing opportunity to get higher picks. 

[IBatch]

On 9/7/2020 at 11:51 PM, 189lb enforcers? said:

I get you are representing the flip side of the argument, so I’ll enjoy some banter with one of my favourite posters. 
 

It was again apparent in the playoffs that having a bunch of high first rounders really helps a team win.

I thought that was pretty much a maxim, minus the occasional outlier, of course. 
 

Please, sir, citing Edmonton and their pony show “management” in any hockey argument is pretty much a non-starter to prove what might happen *if* by contrasting Edmonton having done it wrong.

 

Worst case scenario stuff like Edmonton shouldn’t be used  , neither should Milbury trade success to prove - Trade Man Bad, stuff. 

 

Collecting a bunch of top tier prospects with lottery ticket-high draft picks after having spent to the cap to be a competitive team is an inverse of Edmonton management, IMO, but it certainly improves your prospect pool. This being a serious point and reference to why the team has a bunch of high picks on it today - they certainly weren’t targeted by the GM. 
 

If we are going to talk about how wonderful it is to have a superstar U21 group, let’s not leave out how they got here, especially while praising the GM for them.
 

Placing the start line of measuring JB’s managerial success just immediately after the silly re-thingy phase ended and where the U21 group is now thriving with that great group of expensive vets requires some serious massaging of context, let alone execution of a plan... or wait, ahhh, see this is a revelation for me... I get it now, JB actually intended, like he crystal balled the future when he bought those expensive cap teams, knowing he’d get a couple superstar players out of the draft in the 5-7 range who’d literally carry this team once they were drafted... well maybe their next year or so. 

I can’t get behind that fantasy level of mastery by JB.
 

No matter how feelz-good it might be to think the U21 talent is well-insulated by a veteran group of Beagles, etc. will you see me link the past to the future as if it was all part of some grand plan. Had the draft picks come before the first bunch of UFA madness, I could have understood the move/switch, much like I agreed with the Miller, Ferland, Giraffe moves last year. 
 

Put it this way, which other teams are up there, say top 7, for under 21 talent have spent to the cap, hired top flight goalies (Miller), announced they’ve fixed the PP (Game + Delzaster), found a third twin  (LE), have foundational players (Mr. Balls), etc., to end up with the same under 21? 

 

We are all happy to have what we have for talent these days. It took some to select EP and QH at the draft, agreed, luck too, but it’s my lasting and lonely position on here that JB had absolutely no intention of selecting high in those consecutive drafts , where playoff teams are apparently built, and these unintended consequences should be remembered as such.
 

He gets credit for the selection, but not for the path to that draft position. 
 

Am I exited to “see what JB can bring”?

Meh.
 

Quite a bit has to go right at this point to see any improvement on this aging roster of support players. 

Health being the premier concern and unexpected success these past months might cloud that fact on here. 

 

Hog and Pod are exciting pieces. Their arrival dates are less important than their impact playing days, not just cap-wise, but scoring relief as Miller and co wear down. 
 

The D is where I am least confident that the team will replenish its quality. You can only have so many sub 6’0 and 200lb Dmen, let alone a middling bunch of ho-hum, and not all that young either, prospects. I know some guys are 6’2, but they don’t play like it. There are a few bright spots who have to make that jump from prospect to NHLer and we both know the odds of that happening, and happening a few times as is the expectation consensus in here today. 

 

In net the team has plenty of breathing room even if they part out one goalie. Personally, I’d consider trading Demko. You can always buy a great NHL goalie in UFA. Why trade for one, let alone draft and groom them, but I digress with that aside. The Canucks are deep in the net position. Doesn’t that seem like a trick or a dream... so not Canucks luck, outside of that one year with Lou and CS, I guess. 

 

This team can not win without EP and QH. 
This team can’t gain offensive zone possession without Horvat. 
 

Those 3 players keep this team alive. Take one or two out and it’s just a bunch of a Tanner Pearsons and Meyers toiling away. The skill and the ability to pass the puck and create offence just isn’t there, regardless of systems, which I’m not touching much here. The typical response to that is that all teams suffer when their stars go down, but in our case, I think it’s much more dire a scenario and will bet analytics would prove it, but I’m too simple or lazy to do the comparables math myself. 
 

It might seem bizarre at this time, but absolutely I’d change out the coaching staff. That’d be my first step before I identified roster improvement trade opportunities.
 

If I were Aquaman, I’d be finding out what JB thinks will change. If the answer is that QH and EP will be bigger, stronger, more experienced a play more minutes, I’d fire him on the spot and select The Guardian for GM and Dumbnuck as coach. I’ll do the Pratt bit. 
 

 

Hey 189lbs, hope you enjoyed the playoff like i did, wow what a ride - with exclamation points the last three games.

 

On the first rounders.   That’s usually the GMs pick every time, sometimes it’s a no brainer sometimes he’s often heavily involved with that selection at least. JB miked up shows he’s pretty familiar with the first two or three rounds at least and active in the selections past the first couple as well.    

Used EDM to Boston/TB range to show both extremes.   No surprise that one of the worst teams to one of the best teams also worst to best drafting.   Many of those years both Boston and TB were without a first too.   Also wanted CDCers that think JB is the best drafting GM to understand this isn’t true,  based on a level playing field he’s one of the better ones but not the best.    That said he couldn’t have drafted much better from EP on either could he?    Interesting selection by Yzerman going with Seider so early a lot of ahhhs!!  That took some big balls (ranked 20ish), turned out pretty great for them so far but will take time yet to see how great hence the three year comment before really knowing.   Which is why Dobson and Bouchard and even OJ shouldn’t be discounted yet.   All three probably will have long NHL careers.

 

The re-thingy - thank god its over.   Would have preferred we bottomed out, wish we didn’t have that 7th overall finish after the team started to dismantle but it is what it is - MG claused up or not we had Horvat, Sutter and Miller to work with ... ugh.   CLB had a better start with Heatley, Kovi, Hossa etc.  Been around for a couple decades now with just now getting to the playoffs back-back on their fourth core or so and one other four game sweep to speak of.   ARI and CAR a decade almost between playoff appearances... TO with their master burn  and all their riches can’t get out of the first round.

 

JB compared to his peer group.   This is tougher.   Maybe EP and QHs saved his bacon.   Probably did.   And no I don’t think we are going to win a cup without some more draft luck/good picking - plus some excellent signings and a trade or two.   Glad he’s picking and not me or we’d have MT, Glass/Valardi Bouchard and Podz.    Also glad we didn’t win the lottery EPs draft year as im not sure even JB would have gone that far off board and still picked EP with Hirshier and Patrick the confirmed top dogs.   We would have picked 3rd...maybe we’d have Makar instead.    QHs?  Hated the pick, felt him and Boqvist were a tier down.    And have to say he’s never going to be a number one in the true sense of the word and he’s never going to have the size for that.    Defense matters - Housley 2.0 is his ceiling.    Can win with that for sure though.

 

Back to EDM.   Said in your post using them is kind of Milbury (good chuckle) but also that you need those first rounders to move then bus.   EDM has had the most of any team I can ever re-call (high first rounders) since the draft started and still haven’t got their out of the garage.   Takes more then that.   Second or late rounders to hit especially under the cap.   Takes a village and all.   Beagle was awesome for us this playoff and Balls wasn’t too bad either - starting with the puck on our stick gave us a chance every shift.   Would sure be nice to get our Beagle through the draft though as what a difference it would make cap wise.   JV ... lots of talk about him.  Nobody brings up his 1.5 salary often ... going to change now that he’s produced better the Hansen ever did.   
 

Hopefully some of our college pick-ups and later pucks start filling out the roster and replacing the expensive guys.   Motte was a revelation.   Best at takeaways in the entire league - best stick - speed, intensity and offensive instincts.   Better then Pearson and TT IMO.   See ya both soon enough.  
 

Agree our goaltending is good - but have to pick one and go with it.   Both options have pros and cons.    Fine with either one but would prefer to let Markstrom walk after what I watched - high risk high reward.  Plus I don’t think it’s much of a risk.   Markstrom knees, playing goalie at that price until he’s 35-36... getting rid hard too as wont have as much for a good back-up etc.    I’d be fine either way but have my preference.

 

D.   It’s average even with QHs and Myers.   This is where the money needs to go.   Just like MG took us over the top with Hamhuis and Erhoff - we need another Myers to get there.   Edler and Tanev are fine as our veteran leaders, but need to move down the depth chart.  If they are our third pairing in two years JB has done his job.  OJ is still a black ace.   Think he’s going to show that next season.   
 

Rathbone could be Stetcher 2.0.  I agree we can only have one sub-six defenseman.   Funny how Stetcher was exposed against St Louis and Edler against Vegas though.  Stetcher doesn’t play like a 5’11” d, just like Bieksa didn’t a 6’ even D.   Not a fighter but plays just as hard.  Would be ok if we kept him given we don’t have anyone else yet - but we do need to work on our D group the most.

 

BB was fine.   Miller was great.  Horvat too.  LE ha ha ha.

 

TG out coached Berube, and was out coached by DeBoar.   Well we certainly couldn’t stack up either.   No surprise that 3 of the remaining 4 teams are the 3 teams that get the most tax breaks that made the playoffs.  Florida is the other but they wasted it on Bobrovsky.   Vegas, TB and Dallas are stacked teams.   Vegas has a top three league wide first line,  a 1b line and two decent second lines or great third lines.   How?  Well they get an extra 10-15% to work with compared to the rest of the league (same with TB).  Kucherov at 9.5 is the same almost take home as AM at 11.5.   It’s like getting an extra star forward or two TT or Miller’s or Horvats to work with.    So far they haven’t won a cup - but it looks like they will this year.   It’s why Dallas can afford Pavelski and Vegas Stone plus the rest.    
 

And since I’m a little off topic going to bring up OTT.   These guys are building the way I would have liked us too if we could.   They parlayed what they could from their old group into a gigantic pile of picks even with the failed Duchene experiment.   And are one of the best drafting teams going back a long time.  Stone, Zinbanejad, they have a good list of gems they found in the later rounds going back to their last core.  Not Hansen types either  - Stars.   Have also collected an enviable amount of prospects that look to have the chops to fill different spots of the roster.   Look forward to seeing what they do this year and expect them to be a force coming out of the East in a couple of years.   NYR not so sure.   TO proved that strategy doesn’t work so well even with some luck and good early picks.  Think they cheated too much and needed some more bottoming out.  

 

Edit:  would look into firing both Brown and Bomber but would definitely keep Green.  We really had no business playing 17 games and having a winning record in the playoffs.   That’s conference final stuff.   Some good/great teams left before ours did. 

Our PP cost us game 7.   Three minors and a 5 minute major and zero goals.  Heck barely a shot really.   Not that we deserved to go further because we really didn’t. 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by IBatch

[CallAfterLife]

13 hours ago, yes we can nucks said:

I agree pretty much with all you said except I don't see the Canucks regressing in the next few years. If anything we'll be better as our young core of exceptional players... Pettersson, Hughes, Horvat, Boeser... get stronger and gain more experience. Add to that the development of our other young players like Gaudette, MacEwen, Demko. That would more than offset the inexperience of the incoming prospects like Podkolzin, Hoglander, Juolevi, etc. who will take the place of some of the vets who will be gone. That's an impressive group of prospects coming up so who knows, they might surprise us and play at a high level right away much like Boeser, Pettersson, and Hughes did in their first years... especially with the positive influence of our young core. Plus I have faith in Benning to make the right moves via trades and free agency to fix our deficiencies on defence. I believe we'll be looking at a better and better team in the next few years, one that will be contending for the Cup again!

I don't want to see the Canucks regress either but for whatever reason a lot of young teams tend to regress or only make it past the first round after one initial strong push. 

 

Maybe I'm getting antsy for the draft, especially one with Brackett to see how Benning does, but I don't think it would be terrible for the Canucks to draft well around the 15-20. 

 

I'll be interested to see how Juolevi, Rafferty and Rathbone fair in the next few years. Benn and Fantenberg are just not mobile enough to be effective against teams with aggressive forechecks like Vegas. Plus with Edler likely retiring soon. There's a lot of opportunity to upgrade the blue line from within. 

[IBatch]

19 hours ago, Rush17 said:

I agree I think he will do well. People need to realize though we needed the vets to get out of the play-in vs Minny and they have been immensely helpful to our youth and culture. Now that we have experienced youth and culture we can start to move "some" of the veterans out but it may cost assets. We as a fanbase need to accept we are going to lose some prospects or picks likely to do it. Think of those assets being spent as part of the investment into our core. With that said..

 

We may need to keep a couple veterans around to help maintain the culture. Eddie and Tanev would be ideal candidates but if Tanev goes we may need to keep a Sutter or Roussel. I didn't realize how important Sutter was to our kids until we saw him comforting Quinn on the bench vs Vegas when he was getting down on himself. He is a piece we can probably hang on to and re-sign on the cheap - he'd be worth keeping imo. Maybe they can agree to an extension this summer or perhaps we wait so he isn't expansion eligible as a UFA. 

 

Either way folks. We have come a hell of a long way. That feeling of beating Minny gave us all chills and hope for the future. We can thank Jim for his drafting and the veterans he brought in to be a stabilizing force to support the kids. Now we need to focus on turning gears from being a good team to become a great one. That is going to cost assets to acquire pieces and its going to cost assets to  move players out. Podkolzin,  Lind,  and Hoglander  all look to have top 9 potential. 

 

Now we just need to fill out our bottom six and add a good transitional D or 2. We have Juolevi and Rathbone who might be able to help. But we could use a RHD who has been transitioning skills then Tanev for Quinn. Edler is que the same summer as Quinn and Petey. Maybe he will take a supreme discount to finish his career here on a high note!

 

Out of all the posts I’ve read this one is probably the one that mirrors my sentiments the most and pretty much how I see it.   I’ve also thought about what Sutter might cost with his next contract - sure enjoyed winning all those face off this year and he was a big part of that.    AG would ideally fill that hole a lot depends on his play next season. 
 

Also think Edler and Tanev would be great vets to keep until retirement.   Ideally they would accept team discounts and gradually move down the depth chart.  If they could be our third pairing in two years JB will have outdone himself somehow.   OJ definitely looks to have the chops to win a spot next year and that’s a good start.   Yet to be seen if Rafferty or Rathbone can do the same.   Rafferty preferably given his size and the side he plays ... personally feel this is where we will have to spend to plug a whole - either with a trade but hopefully by managing the cap in a way we can afford a guy like Hamilton or Petry next off season (if they come to market).  
 

Lots of work left to do...team has a Luongo just arrived vibe or early 90’s vibe.   Lots to look forward too.