[Discussion] ditching Eriksson plus others

[RomanP]

On 9/8/2020 at 10:21 AM, Provost said:

I am now at the point where the situation merits moving a (lottery protected) 1st round pick to get rid of Eriksson.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a good thing that you being now at this point is completely irrelevant to the team...

[VegasCanuck]

Here's my offer to Ottawa for moving Eriksson:

 

Offer to Ottawa:

Eriksson

Virtanen

2021 3rd round pick

 

To Vancouver:

2020 2nd round pick

 

Why Ottawa does this? They are in negative cap space right now, sitting 18 million below the cap with an owner who likes to save money. They get a player who eats up 6 million in cap space and is defensively responsible, for just 5 million (2.5 million per season average) real dollars spent. They also pickup a fast player in Virtanen who has untapped upside.

 

Vancouver does this as they avoid any possible arbitration award to Virtanen if he decides to file for it, clear cap space and regain a 2nd round pick. This provides this with the space necessary to resign all other prospects and we have guys in the AHL who are pushing to take over Virtanen's spot already.

 

Personally, I think this is a fair offer for both teams.

[BigTramFan]

We're trying to flatten the cap hit to Vancouver, and for this reason LE's contract is almost buy out proof for VAN.

 

If NJD are considering buying out Cory Schneider, why not propose the following trade?

 

To VAN: Schneider

To NJD: Eriksson

 

We buy out Cory, they buy out LE.

 

It costs NJD a total of $3.66m in actual $ paid over four years to buy out Loui. The cap hit per year is $5.7m, $3.7m, $0.7m and $0.7m. They have plenty of cap space in the next 2 years.

 

Buying out Cory costs $8m over 4 years. With cap hit of $2m per year.

 

So NJD saves about $4.3m in actual dollars, and VAN saves cap space in the next 2 years to help resign Petey & Hughes.

Edited September 24, 2020 by BigTramFan

[Provost]

11 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

We're trying to flatten the cap hit to Vancouver, and for this reason LE's contract is almost buy out proof for VAN.

 

If NJD are considering buying out Cory Schneider, why not propose the following trade?

 

To VAN: Schneider

To NJD: Eriksson

 

We buy out Cory, they buy out LE.

 

It costs NJD a total of $3.66m in actual $ paid over four years to buy out Loui. The cap hit per year is $5.7m, $3.7m, $0.7m and $0.7m. They have plenty of cap space in the next 2 years.

 

Buying out Cory costs $8m over 4 years. With cap hit of $2m per year.

 

So NJD saves about $4.3m in actual dollars, and VAN saves cap space in the next 2 years to help resign Petey & Hughes.

I think a 50% salary retention on Eriksson is a better deal for us than this one honestly.

 

It would cost the receiving team $500k in actual salary next year and $2 million the year after.  That is reasonable for most non cap teams to easily absorb... with only a small sweetener at worst.

 

For is it saves $3 million per year in cap and doesn’t push cap penalties into 2 extra years where we are also paying Petterson and Hughes as well as trying to re-up Boeser, Horvat, and Miller in that extra 2 year window.

[JM_]

It looks more and more to me like we're in a "no ditch" situation with the Canucks. It wouldn't surprise me one iota if we don't shed any of our higher salary veterans this season.

 

A little bit of forced UFA austerity this year might actually be the best option in the long run. 

[aGENT]

@Provost, I like our previously discussed Eriksson to FLA for Stralman deal. Yes Stralman as our 3RD is expensive but so long as we can shift Eriksson's cap to a position of need, it effectively saves us the cap of replacing that player. Stralman's cap is already $500k less and we'd also be saving the cost (+/- $2m?) of whoever we were signing for that spot. 

 

It helps FLA by saving them $5m actual dollars over the next two years, $3.5m this year alone. Send them the rights to Stecher to replace Stralman and their cash savings effectively pays for Stecher (basically a free player) and gets them younger.

 

I've also been kicking around how to get Tierney out of OTT. He's likely going to cost +/- $4m to re-up...I'm wondering if we could do something like Gaudette + Roussel or Gaudette + Baer + a 'B' prospect (Gadjovich?). They get two (possibly three) players for  largely the same price and Gaudette is younger and closer to their age group while being cheaper than Tierney. Either Rous/Baer are short term vets to shelter kids/fill holes while not being long term impediments.

 

Re-sign (+/-) Tanev @ $4.25, Toffoli @ $5, Tierney @ $4, Greiss or similar @ $2.5, Leivo @ $1.2, Motte @ $1.2... Leaves us about negative $600K +/-... so still work to do around moving one or two of whichever is left of Roussel/Baer, Sutter and Benn and replacing them with cheaper guys like MacEwan ($1m), Sautner ($1m) or Fanta ($1.5m) etc.

 

Even moving just Sutter or Roussel + Benn clears us a few mil to get us out of the red and cover at least some of the upcoming signing bonuses in that scenario.

 

Miller $5.25, Pettersson $.925, Boeser $5.875

Pearson $3.75, Horvat $5.5, Toffoli, $5

Roussel $3, Tierney $4, Leivo $1.2

Motte $1.2, Beagle $3, MacEwan $1

 

Ferland $3.5

 

Hughes, $.916, Tanev $4.25

Edler $6, Stralman $5.5

Juolevi $.863, Myers $6

 

Sautner $.8, Rafferty $.7

 

Demko $1.05, Greiss $2.5

 

[Provost]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

@Provost, I like our previously discussed Eriksson to FLA for Stralman deal. Yes Stralman as our 3RD is expensive but so long as we can shift Eriksson's cap to a position of need, it effectively saves us the cap of replacing that player. Stralman's cap is already $500k less and we'd also be saving the cost (+/- $2m?) of whoever we were signing for that spot. 

 

It helps FLA by saving them $5m actual dollars over the next two years, $3.5m this year alone. Send them the rights to Stecher to replace Stralman and their cash savings effectively pays for Stecher (basically a free player) and gets them younger.

 

I've also been kicking around how to get Tierney out of OTT. He's likely going to cost +/- $4m to re-up...I'm wondering if we could do something like Gaudette + Roussel or Gaudette + Baer + a 'B' prospect (Gadjovich?). They get two (possibly three) players for  largely the same price and Gaudette is younger and closer to their age group while being cheaper than Tierney. Either Rous/Baer are short term vets to shelter kids/fill holes while not being long term impediments.

 

Re-sign (+/-) Tanev @ $4.25, Toffoli @ $5, Tierney @ $4, Greiss or similar @ $2.5, Leivo @ $1.2, Motte @ $1.2... Leaves us about negative $600K +/-... so still work to do around moving one or two of whichever is left of Roussel/Baer, Sutter and Benn and replacing them with cheaper guys like MacEwan ($1m), Sautner ($1m) or Fanta ($1.5m) etc.

 

Even moving just Sutter or Roussel + Benn clears us a few mil to get us out of the red and cover at least some of the upcoming signing bonuses in that scenario.

 

Miller $5.25, Pettersson $.925, Boeser $5.875

Pearson $3.75, Horvat $5.5, Toffoli, $5

Roussel $3, Tierney $4, Leivo $1.2

Motte $1.2, Beagle $3, MacEwan $1

 

Ferland $3.5

 

Hughes, $.916, Tanev $4.25

Edler $6, Stralman $5.5

Juolevi $.863, Myers $6

 

Sautner $.8, Rafferty $.7

 

Demko $1.05, Greiss $2.5

 

I like the lineup, certainly the forward group is pretty set... I think it is doable, it will just take some futures and some creativity to get it done.

Stralman is also a short term solution so doesn't block any of our younger guys who we need to see in some games in the coming couple of years.  Tryamkin, Rafferty, maybe Woo in a couple years... If any of them push for a spot, it doesn't hurt you at all to have a veteran like Stralman sitting in the press box occasionally.  Honestly same with Tanev.  You could easily do a little load management and keep those older legs fresh by resting them (but still having a couple of solid veterans in the lineup), especially with a compressed schedule.

In the forwards, eventually pushing Pearson and Leivo down or out of the lineup with Podkolzin and Hoglander (if they both pan out) seems like a perfect succession plan.

 

[Patel Bure]

I think the Marleau deal (the one that saw Marleau get traded to Carolina from Toronto) *might* get rid of Eriksson.

 

Eriksson + 7th round pick + 2021 1st for a 6th round pick.   
 

In my opinion, that would be the best option for getting rid of Eriksson.  
 

Podkzolin or Demko could also be used as sweeteners to move Eriksson without retention, but I would strongly advise against this idea.   I am of the opinion that Demko is the next Carey Price, and also believe that Podkolzin will be a solid top 6 player.  A Russian JT Miller type guy.  
 

Unfortunately, I don’t think Virtanen would be a strong enough sweetener to move Eriksson. 

[Lazurus]

Eriksson with some retention and Ferland to Ottawa for a 1rst round pick

 

Ferland's contract costs them nothing as it is insured but gives them the cap hit if they choose and Eriksson at half cost and the cap hit gets them well beyond the cap floor IF Eriksson agrees, he has that NTC CLAUSE Benning gave him.

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

IF Eriksson agrees, he has that NTC CLAUSE Benning gave him.

Benning didn't give him anything.

The agent, player and organization negotiated the deal. No gimmes.

[Lazurus]

18 minutes ago, gurn said:

Benning didn't give him anything.

The agent, player and organization negotiated the deal. No gimmes.

What does Benning do then?

[Gurn]

23 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

What does Benning do then?

If you had a hammer and I bought it for $10 you are not "giving" me the hammer.

If you had a hammer and I agreed to pay you to build a shed I'm not "giving" you money, you earned it through negotiations.

[Lazurus]

6 minutes ago, gurn said:

If you had a hammer and I bought it for $10 you are not "giving" me the hammer.

If you had a hammer and I agreed to pay you to build a shed I'm not "giving" you money, you earned it through negotiations.

But nobody twisted your arm to buy that hammer though, could have been a different one.

[Agoork]

Ok, so here's an idea that I have not seen anyone talk about:

What about doing a trade with Columbus.   Loui Eriksson for Alex Wennburg

Columbus is rumoured to be considering buying him out, as he just hasn't been playing well.  They don't really need the cap relief as far as I can see.

Loui is useful as a pk and defensive specialist, so maybe Columbus considers it, and nobody else is going to want Wennburg at that cap hit with how he has been playing. 

 

Wennburg has a $4.9m  cap hit x 3 years.   Doesn't sound too helpful for the Canucks right?

The key here is that his buyout cap hits are REALLY LOW.  So, we simply buy him out once we make the trade.

The buyout cap hit is only $441,167 per year for the 1st 3 years, and then $891,167 for the last 3 years. (as per CapFriendly).

It spreads out the cost over 6 years, which is a very long time to have a buyout on the books, but the amounts are low, so with some planning, it should be something the  Canucks.can simply plan around.  This frees up over $5m in cap space for each of the next 2 years (which is when we really need it), and then adds less than a million for each of the following 4 years. 

 

Eriksson has $5m owing in real cash over the 2 years.  

Wennburg's buyout cost is $5.35m over 6 years, so dollar wise, they are similar, with Columbus actually saving a little bit. .

 

Canucks could even retain $1.1m to make the cap hits even. 

Overall, this trade reduces Columbus's commitment to 2 years, instead of the current 3.... and the Canucks get the cap relief needed this year and next.

Win/Win for both teams. 

What do you think?

Edited September 29, 2020 by Agoork

[BigTramFan]

1 hour ago, Agoork said:

Ok, so here's an idea that I have not seen anyone talk about:

What about doing a trade with Columbus.   Loui Eriksson for Alex Wennburg

Columbus is rumoured to be considering buying him out, as he just hasn't been playing well.  They don't really need the cap relief as far as I can see.

Loui is useful as a pk and defensive specialist, so maybe Columbus considers it, and nobody else is going to want Wennburg at that cap hit with how he has been playing. 

 

Wennburg has a $4.9m  cap hit x 3 years.   Doesn't sound too helpful for the Canucks right?

The key here is that his buyout cap hits are REALLY LOW.  So, we simply buy him out once we make the trade.

The buyout cap hit is only $441,167 per year for the 1st 3 years, and then $891,167 for the last 3 years. (as per CapFriendly).

It spreads out the cost over 6 years, which is a very long time to have a buyout on the books, but the amounts are low, so with some planning, it should be something the  Canucks.can simply plan around.  This frees up over $5m in cap space for each of the next 2 years (which is when we really need it), and then adds less than a million for each of the following 4 years. 

 

Eriksson has $5m owing in real cash over the 2 years.  

Wennburg's buyout cost is $5.35m over 6 years, so dollar wise, they are similar, with Columbus actually saving a little bit. .

 

Canucks could even retain $1.1m to make the cap hits even. 

Overall, this trade reduces Columbus's commitment to 2 years, instead of the current 3.... and the Canucks get the cap relief needed this year and next.

Win/Win for both teams. 

What do you think?

I love the idea, very creative.

 

But I think that CBJ have only $7m in cap space for this coming season and they will likely want to create more space by buying out Wennberg themselves, and thereby only taking on his low cap hits.

 

This would increase their cap space to $11.5m and allow them to resign PLD, some of their other RFAs, and perhaps take on a decent free agent from the market that will be full of talent that cannot be resigned by other teams.

 

 

[Agoork]

16 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

I love the idea, very creative.

 

But I think that CBJ have only $7m in cap space for this coming season and they will likely want to create more space by buying out Wennberg themselves, and thereby only taking on his low cap hits.

 

This would increase their cap space to $11.5m and allow them to resign PLD, some of their other RFAs, and perhaps take on a decent free agent from the market that will be full of talent that cannot be resigned by other teams.

 

 

I think Dubinsky is done and will be on LTIR, so they should be able to use his $5.85m cap space as well (if need be).  There was an article on The Hockey Writers where they thought Columbus might be interested in Jake Virtanen.  Add him to the deal in a swap for a prospect or draft pick and maybe they bite.... and if we don't take an nhl player back, then it results in even more cap savings.

 

Or, maybe get another team involved and do a 3 way trade.  Maybe Ottawa would take Eriksson, Vancouver takes Wennburg (and buys him out), and both CBJ and VAN throw in something that  would make it worth while for Ottawa.

 

I find it really interesting that Wennburg's buy out costs are so low for his $4.9m cap hit.  It's worth exploring.

[BigTramFan]

I suggest the following trades/moves. The incentive for VAN is to clear cap space...

 

Trade 1

To OTT: Eriksson 50% retained + Virtanen (rights) + 2021 3rd round pick

To VAN: Future considerations

 

OTT does this for the assets only. It is a really cheap way to get a decent RW (Virtanen) and a 3rd round pick. Loui plays in OTT for one season on their 3rd or 4th line for $500k of salary, then OTT likely buys him out. The buy out costs for OTT would be $1m in 2021 and $500k in 2022. They would be silly to turn down the assets at that cost.

 

Trade 2

To EDM: Sutter 50% retained

To VAN: 2021 6th round pick

 

EDM need a decent third line center and Sutter at $2.2m is worth the meagre price of a 6th round pick. Alternative landing spot for Sutter = NYR, his home town (so probably not on his 15 team no trade list) and they also could use a decent bottom 6 center on the cheap.

 

Trade 3

To NJD: Roussel + Stecher (rights)

To VAN: Future considerations

 

NJD are a young rebuilding team. They are short on defensemen and Stecher brings character and heart to support their young core. Roussel joins their bottom 6 and provides some starch to their lineup for 2 seasons.

 

Move 4

As soon as Ferland is declared healthy again - waive him to Utica. This will save $1.075m in cap hit. If he can prove he's healthy by playing a season, then he may return to the NHL roster, but until that time we need to minimise his impact on the cap.

 

 

TOTAL CAP SPACE CREATED = $9.26m

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by BigTramFan

[VegasCanuck]

20 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

I suggest the following trades/moves. The incentive for VAN is to clear cap space...

 

Trade 1

To OTT: Eriksson 50% retained + Virtanen (rights) + 2021 3rd round pick

To VAN: Future considerations

 

OTT does this for the assets only. It is a really cheap way to get a decent RW (Virtanen) and a 3rd round pick. Loui plays in OTT for one season on their 3rd or 4th line for $500k of salary, then OTT likely buys him out. The buy out costs for OTT would be $1m in 2021 and $500k in 2022. They would be silly to turn down the assets at that cost.

 

Trade 2

To EDM: Sutter 50% retained

To VAN: 2021 6th round pick

 

EDM need a decent third line center and Sutter at $2.2m is worth the meagre price of a 6th round pick. Alternative landing spot for Sutter = NYR, his home town (so probably not on his 15 team no trade list) and they also could use a decent bottom 6 center on the cheap.

 

Trade 3

To NJD: Roussel + Stecher (rights)

To VAN: Future considerations

 

NJD are a young rebuilding team. They are short on defensemen and Stecher brings character and heart to support their young core. Roussel joins their bottom 6 and provides some starch to their lineup for 2 seasons.

 

Move 4

As soon as Ferland is declared healthy again - waive him to Utica. This will save $1.075m in cap hit. If he can prove he's healthy by playing a season, then he may return to the NHL roster, but until that time we need to minimise his impact on the cap.

 

 

TOTAL CAP SPACE CREATED = $9.26m

 

#4 won’t work, Ferland has a full NMC, but, I doubt he will play again, so he just sits on LTIR for the duration of his contract.

[BigTramFan]

3 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

#4 won’t work, Ferland has a full NMC, but, I doubt he will play again, so he just sits on LTIR for the duration of his contract.

Hmmm, yeah you're right. However, putting him on LTIR is not really of any use to us, because we will likely have to stay about $4-5m under the cap limit (including Ferland's cap hit) if we want to avoid carrying over performance bonuses from 2020/21 into the next season. Very disappointing!

 

Do you reckon #1 - 3 trades are do-able?

Edited September 30, 2020 by BigTramFan

[Patel Bure]

On 9/16/2020 at 11:38 AM, VegasCanuck said:

Here's my offer to Ottawa for moving Eriksson:

 

Offer to Ottawa:

Eriksson

Virtanen

2021 3rd round pick

 

To Vancouver:

2020 2nd round pick

 

Why Ottawa does this? They are in negative cap space right now, sitting 18 million below the cap with an owner who likes to save money. They get a player who eats up 6 million in cap space and is defensively responsible, for just 5 million (2.5 million per season average) real dollars spent. They also pickup a fast player in Virtanen who has untapped upside.

 

Vancouver does this as they avoid any possible arbitration award to Virtanen if he decides to file for it, clear cap space and regain a 2nd round pick. This provides this with the space necessary to resign all other prospects and we have guys in the AHL who are pushing to take over Virtanen's spot already.

 

Personally, I think this is a fair offer for both teams.

Ottawa will hit the cap floor easily.   They know the position that many other teams are in and will have lots of suitors as far as cap dumps go.   They wouldn’t have bought out Bobby Ryan had they not been worried about reaching the cap floor.

 

I can’t see Eriksson getting us a 2nd rounder, especially with Virtanen as the sweetener.   Only way Eriksson gets moved is if the 2021 1st is in play (Marleau to Carolina as a comparable).

 

I suspect that the Canucks will try and move Virtanen for a 2020 1st (Kasperi Kapanen to Pits as a comparable), so that they can “afford” to use the 2021 1st as a sweetener.   Contingent on Tyler Toffoli re-signing with us however. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by DarkIndianRises