Was Virtanen mismanaged here?

[flat land fish]

Jake still thinks he should be RW1 but the reality even with his significant tools he doesn’t think the game well enough to play 1st line consistently.  If he played with the motor And urgency motte does he would be making 5 Mill a year and be a great 2nd liner.  Instead he’s happy to score 15-20 a year and make 1-2 mill and be an nhl player but certainly not reaching his potential.

[Pickly]

2 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

He wasn't mismanaged. His stock began to go down in his final season in the WHL on the Hitmen and further dropped at the World Juniors. 

He hasnt lived up to draft status but if he signs a cheap contract and grinds it out on bottom 6, he can still be a valuable piece to a championship team. 

I think at this point, best case scenario ia a Raffi Torres type player. 

He too never reached his high draft status potential but learned to stay in the league by playing bottom 6.

Jake is definitely an NHLer. Question is whether he can ever become top 6.

Torres played the game like a possessed psycho looking to run guys through the boards any chance he could get. Jake throws a solid hit once every 5 games usually because it’s somebody trying to hit him. Guy has the physical tools to be a wrecking ball but pint sized Tyler Motte plays a heavier game then him. 

[Maginator]

IMO if you can sign him for cheap, do it.

 

Posters have been suggesting that Bennings comments are to sway arbitrator's into a lower price tag... I think that's looking too far into it. Very conspiring if true though.

 

I still hope we can sign him for cheap though. 1 x 1.75-2.0M.

 

1 more year. 

 

I personally believe Jake has more to show, after his 18 goal season. 

 

How many times did he ride pine this year? How many times were posters screaming that Jake is getting shafted icetime?

 

Also, I think the abrupt cancellation & uncertainty of the 2020 playoffs affected his playoff performance.

[Whalespray]

I am sick and tired of making excuses for Virtanen. I have been in the guys corner since day 1 but at some point he has to take responsibility for how he conducts himself as a pro. He hasn't and franky this team deserves better. 

[Qwags]

I would say Virtanen has made his own bed. In hindsight, we probably should've sent him along with McCann back to their respective junior teams for another year. Since then, Jake hasn't really grown.

 

Much like Benning, I was hoping he'd do something these playoffs.

[knucklehead91]

37 minutes ago, Maginator said:

IMO if you can sign him for cheap, do it.

 

Posters have been suggesting that Bennings comments are to sway arbitrator's into a lower price tag... I think that's looking too far into it. Very conspiring if true though.

 

I still hope we can sign him for cheap though. 1 x 1.75-2.0M.

 

1 more year. 

 

I personally believe Jake has more to show, after his 18 goal season. 

 

How many times did he ride pine this year? How many times were posters screaming that Jake is getting shafted icetime?

 

Also, I think the abrupt cancellation & uncertainty of the 2020 playoffs affected his playoff performance.

In bold - I’ve been a Virtanen supporter, but every other player on the team came in to the playoffs ready to play and played well, so there is no excuse. Virtanen lacks consitency period. He looks like a player without passion, he coasts around and fails to get engaged in the game more often than not. When he DOES, he either takes a stupid penalty, or on the odd occassion he becomes a fast, physical force. But its never consistent long enough. To me it just seems like there is some sort of distraction interfering with his game. I will say that in the playoffs this year, he did make several smart defensive plays that prevented a great chance or a puck in the back of the net a few times. He never seems to like to carry the puck and he doesnt drive the net and use his body, strength and speed to his advantage. He instead tries to chip it and retrieve it, when he could use his skating to beat the dman. Hes a gifted skater, he’s so powerful and smooth when he skates, but he seems afraid to try and take the puck at the dman.
 

I really want to see that light go off in his head and for him to figure out how to stay engaged a game from puck drop. He looks like he just doesnt care to play half the time. Wether hes lost the passion for the sport, frustrated with how Green plays him, his ice time, the negative media that follows the hometown kid and always seeming to be in the dog house. But something is in the way of Jake staying mentally focused. I hope for his sake that he figures it out, unfortunately I believe for him, a change of scenery may be the much needed answer for him. 

[rawkdrummer]

Jake mismanaged Jake

[ktcy2]

Jake is what Jake is, a 20 goal scorer third line winger and no more. He will not be top 6 due to lack of hockey sense but he can be a bottom 6 player. Let’s forget about him being in the top 6. I hope he comes back. 

[Hairy Kneel]

I've always felt that Jake could be part of a terrific 4th line, and penalty killer.

He was trending up during the season but didn't produce when it mattered most, in the playoffs. I'd sign him for cheap and work on him as a role player. 

The market might see it better to trade him if JB finds a good deal, or use to help unload a contract. 

Kenins blew out his shoulder and stopped hitting, I wonder if Jake ever really recovered from his shoulder injury?I've got a bad shoulder from rugby that bothers me if I over extend it. Maybe he never did rehab it properly? ie a continuous and well maintained workout regimine.

Either way I trust JB to figure it out.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Hairy Kneel

[CanuckleHorse]

I’ve seen a lot of dump and chase hockey and the team getting hemmed in their zone these last two years to know that the system fails a lot of players.

Edited September 9, 2020 by CanuckleHorse

[cuporbust]

Virtanen was a mistake at where he was picked obviously.  I dont have any time for a player that cant stay in shape,  and kinda seems like just making the NHL was ultimately enough for him. Never been a fan of his at all after the world juniors. 

[cuporbust]

4 hours ago, flat land fish said:

Jake still thinks he should be RW1 but the reality even with his significant tools he doesn’t think the game well enough to play 1st line consistently.  If he played with the motor And urgency motte does he would be making 5 Mill a year and be a great 2nd liner.  Instead he’s happy to score 15-20 a year and make 1-2 mill and be an nhl player but certainly not reaching his potential.

Pretty much what I was saying. I don't think the kid really wants to put in the effort or even cares about being a top player. Some guys just dont have that drive. Can't win them all at the draft I guess. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by cuporbust

[Ghostsof1915]

9 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

First player I have ever heard of that came into two training camps out of shape in one season. 
For years I have defended Jake and said just wait until he is in the playoffs. Beautiful skater, physical and strong, good shot. When simplifies game is fantastic. 
After seeing his lack of acceleration (power to weight ratio kind of important) and disinterested play in the playoffs, I think it is time to see if he can be used as a sweetener to clear some cap or fill some of the holes. Unfortunately what we could really use is more players like Jake should be. Oh well, Podz is coming. 
He may flourish when he gets away from playing in home town but still think would be best choice. 

Tram came into camp out of shape. And refused to be demoted to Utica to get into game shape. 

Back to Jake, yes his lack of consistency is frustrating. Yet, he is one of our fastest skaters, and has decent size. Just it's a pity he doesn't use it. 

I think a change of scenery might finally wake him up. It just sucks it has to come to that. 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Ghostsof1915

[Timråfan]

He might be one of the few young players left that need a coach like Babcock. 

[IBatch]

Where is that Church of V guy when we need him?   Maybe time he closed shop and instead put an M outside... Church of Motte.   After his playoffs don’t mind holding the line for sinners who balked at the Vanek deal.   Definitely the guy who showed up in our bottom six.  

[Maginator]

7 hours ago, knucklehead91 said:

In bold - I’ve been a Virtanen supporter, but every other player on the team came in to the playoffs ready to play and played well, so there is no excuse. Virtanen lacks consitency period. He looks like a player without passion, he coasts around and fails to get engaged in the game more often than not. When he DOES, he either takes a stupid penalty, or on the odd occassion he becomes a fast, physical force. But its never consistent long enough. To me it just seems like there is some sort of distraction interfering with his game. I will say that in the playoffs this year, he did make several smart defensive plays that prevented a great chance or a puck in the back of the net a few times. He never seems to like to carry the puck and he doesnt drive the net and use his body, strength and speed to his advantage. He instead tries to chip it and retrieve it, when he could use his skating to beat the dman. Hes a gifted skater, he’s so powerful and smooth when he skates, but he seems afraid to try and take the puck at the dman.
 

I really want to see that light go off in his head and for him to figure out how to stay engaged a game from puck drop. He looks like he just doesnt care to play half the time. Wether hes lost the passion for the sport, frustrated with how Green plays him, his ice time, the negative media that follows the hometown kid and always seeming to be in the dog house. But something is in the way of Jake staying mentally focused. I hope for his sake that he figures it out, unfortunately I believe for him, a change of scenery may be the much needed answer for him. 

Good points.

 

I hope he succeeds here. A consistent 25 goal scorer would be awesome. 

 

However, and unfortunately, there's likely a low probability of that. If he does get to that point it probably wont be in a Canucks uniform.

[vannuck59]

15 hours ago, Odd. said:

It may have been a pipe dream, but I was expecting Virtanen to play like his 2015-2016 physical self in these playoffs, back when he would hit anything that moved every chance he got and always took the puck to the net. All he does now is that dump and chase and go off for a quick shift, running around not accomplishing much. 

 

I always get this feeling that Virtanen was mismanaged throughout his time here. Whether it be him starting a year earlier before he was really ready, those 2 years in Utica, and/or being used as a 4th line depth player. I feel like his development has stifled. I get this feeling he's being held back, whether it be the result of Green and his coaching system, or just not being a fit entirely with the makeup of this team.

 

I've always wonder and will continue to wonder with what seems to be Virtanen's final days in Van, what if Virtanen played in a system like the  Vegas Knights, perhaps Boston, the Caps or the Blues. Physical, north-south style teams that play a heavy game and seem to play without any limits. I feel like Virtanen would strive in those types of environments, or maybe it's just a load of BS. 

 

It's hard not to root for the guy, he's got a very rare blend of speed and size. Again has the toolbox, just needs someone to help him use it correctly. Unfortunately, he won't learn it here.

Jake Was put in a roll he could not achieve, power forward he is not big enough or has the skills to achieve that skill set, not mean enough look at Tuck and the look at Jake .Tom Wilson is a power forward . Jake is not. He doesn't have the IQ for a top 6 forward. At 7 overall he is a bust.

Edited September 9, 2020 by vannuck59

[You Mad Bro?]

He’s 25 in a few days. Time to move on. 

[timberz21]

Jake's biggest problem is between the ears.  He has no hockey sense or IQ.  He was blessed with a heavy shot and blazing speed in junior, and with his size made looks like he could dominate immature players.  Eventually, that caught up with him.  He rode that wave of his draft year after scoring 45 goals, but went downhill from there.  His draft +1 year was suppose to be a dominant one and it was disappointing, same with his 2 WHJC stint.  You could see the regression in those 2 years and was never able to figure things out at the professional level either.  After this, my expectation for him were lowered, but I still thought he could become that physical presence as a middle 6 players, with an eye for the net, but I think that ship as sailed also.  He'll be a tweener at best, bouncing from teams to teams as a bottom 6 players for a few more years, IMO.

 

His career path reminds me a lot of Benoit Pouliot.

[swizzey]

All this talk over the years of mismanaging Virtanen. A player needs to be adaptable and to bloom wherever they are planted at the time.
 

You are planted in the AHL; then go crush it and put up numbers.

 

You are planted in the bottom 6; then use every minute on the ice like it’s the last hockey you will play. 
 

You are planted in the top 6; then thrive on your potential and make the most of the talent you are playing with. 
 

Jake needs to either mature and put up points if he wants to get paid, settle for being a bottom 6 player at $2m or get planted with another team and try again.