If the Canucks Can't move Eriksson look for them to buy out these 2 players......And some other thoughts

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Tyndall2 said:

No way the Canucks should sign Tavev for 4-5 more years.  We already have Edler on defense as a traffic cone.  Go with the youth, speed and grit.  

How many players can a team buyout in a season?  One?

Still have to be able to play defense on the blueline.  Myers is passable defensively and Hughes, who already is decent (and will only get better) can only play so many minutes.  That leaves who? 

[Arrow 1983]

31 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Cred to the OP for opening the buyout conversation.

 

I agree with @oldnews that the buyout is down the list for options.  

 

Remember that burying a player in the minors saves $1.025 off the cap so unless you're saving that, it's a non-starter.  Who then is a candidate?

 

                  Present      Buyout cap hit..........................................

                  Cap            Yr 1        2         3          4          5          6

Baertschi  (1) 3.36       1.76     800

Beagle      (2) 3.0         1.36     2.36     566      566

Benn         (1) 2.0         933      533

Eriksson    (2) 6.0        5.66     3.66      666     666

Ferland      (3) 3.5        1.55     805      1.8      1.05      1.05     1.05

Pearson    (1) 3.75       1.18     1.28

Roussel     (2) 3.0        1.23     1.83     733      733

Sutter        (1) 4.375     2.04     1.16

 

I think that Pearson  is the best candidate at a savings of 2.595 in year 1 but he is marketable and they would like to keep him

The next best and most likely would be Sutter at a savings of 2.335

 

Pearson, Bear, Sutter, and Benn are all gone after this coming season it make no sense to carry cap hits on them for next season when the Canucks have to re-sign both Hughes and Pettersson. There is no savings for Eriksson you save more with burying him due to his garenented bonuses. That leaves Roussel Ferland and Beagle and Beagle still brings something to the team pk time and faceoff wins

[JM_]

36 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Cred to the OP for opening the buyout conversation.

 

I agree with @oldnews that the buyout is down the list for options.  

 

Remember that burying a player in the minors saves $1.025 off the cap so unless you're saving that, it's a non-starter.  Who then is a candidate?

 

                  Present      Buyout cap hit..........................................

                  Cap            Yr 1        2         3          4          5          6

Baertschi  (1) 3.36       1.76     800

Beagle      (2) 3.0         1.36     2.36     566      566

Benn         (1) 2.0         933      533

Eriksson    (2) 6.0        5.66     3.66      666     666

Ferland      (3) 3.5        1.55     805      1.8      1.05      1.05     1.05

Pearson    (1) 3.75       1.18     1.28

Roussel     (2) 3.0        1.23     1.83     733      733

Sutter        (1) 4.375     2.04     1.16

 

I think that Pearson  is the best candidate at a savings of 2.595 in year 1 but he is marketable and they would like to keep him

The next best and most likely would be Sutter at a savings of 2.335

 

Sutter, Bear and bury Loui. Its the threesome that nets us 4.7 mil in space. Its an extreme option but its also one fully within Jims control. 

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

Pearson, Bear, Sutter, and Benn are all gone after this coming season it make no sense to carry cap hits on them for next season when the Canucks have to re-sign both Hughes and Pettersson. There is no savings for Eriksson you save more with burying him due to his garenented bonuses. That leaves Roussel Ferland and Beagle and Beagle still brings something to the team pk time and faceoff wins

it does from a cash flow perspective if you need the space to bring in someone elite this season. 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Robert Long

[Arrow 1983]

Just now, Robert Long said:

Sutter, Bear and bury Loui. Its the threesome that nets us 4.7 mil in space. Its an extreme option but its also one fully within Jims control. 

You carry cap hits for next season for tw guys Sutter and Bear that are gone next season makes no sense to me when the have both Hughes and Pettersson to re-sign 

[Arrow 1983]

Just now, Robert Long said:

it does from a cash flow perspective if you need the space to bring in someone elite this season. 

It shouldn't be about this season it should be about the ability to re-sign your top players

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

It shouldn't be about this season it should be about the ability to re-sign your top players

it can be both - we have enough cap space to bring in a top d this year and sign the kids next year, even with the two buyouts 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Robert Long

[Crabcakes]

1 hour ago, Robert Long said:

Sutter, Bear and bury Loui. Its the threesome that nets us 4.7 mil in space. Its an extreme option but its also one fully within Jims control. 

I could see Baer traded to a place like Detroit or Ottawa maybe with some salary retained.  Burying Loui is the best option failing a trade which is a long shot.  A buyout for Sutter I think is possible.  

 

1 hour ago, Arrow 1983 said:

It shouldn't be about this season it should be about the ability to re-sign your top players

You're right.  It's about Pettersson and Hughes.  This is why I don't see signing the likes of Petrangelo or buying out more than 1 player.  Sutter would have a hit of only 1.16 in year 2 so the impact in year 2 is little more than an entry level player.

 

Further to the OP, Benn could be easily moved.  I like Fanta better and he could be re-signed for half the price.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see Virtanen walk.  At 24 he is what he is.  Inconsistent, occasionally great, mostly middling.  Zack Kassian 2.0.  

 

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Crabcakes

[iceman64]

6 hours ago, Robert Long said:

it does from a cash flow perspective if you need the space to bring in someone elite this season. 

Well we hardly need elite though, we just need a lot better than we have now on D and that wouldn't take elite by any means, we just need consistently really good.. as long as we don't get peppered in shots against  and hemmed in most nights and hope our offense/goalie to bail us out.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, iceman64 said:

Well we hardly need elite though, we just need a lot better than we have now on D and that wouldn't take elite by any means, we just need consistently really good.. as long as we don't get peppered in shots against  and hemmed in most nights and hope our offense/goalie to bail us out.

thats true, but with what Tanev would get + and extra 2 mil or so you should be able to land something very good. 

[iceman64]

23 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

thats true, but with what Tanev would get + and extra 2 mil or so you should be able to land something very good. 

Hope so but I doubt JB will do that since we need it for Markstrom/Toffoli/Hughes/Alien so saving but still upgrading is still possible but we can't hope to win anything without good D and a 200ft game out of the forwards, forwards have bought into it but D can't be ignored.. 

[Arrow 1983]

29 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Hope so but I doubt JB will do that since we need it for Markstrom/Toffoli/Hughes/Alien so saving but still upgrading is still possible but we can't hope to win anything without good D and a 200ft game out of the forwards, forwards have bought into it but D can't be ignored.. 

You need to give up on the re-signing of Marky it's not going to happen 

[Angry Goose]

In my dreams I imagine the Canucks make a few great moves, and life is good.  

[iceman64]

14 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

You need to give up on the re-signing of Marky it's not going to happen 

I wouldn't be so sure, we can't sign and trade him? That completely impossible?  At least that way he'd have a choice to go somewhere he could land in a trade where he might not land in free agency, the team(s) that he may WANT to play for a live might not have cap either but rather trade instead, much like our team right now. So never say never.. or he may stay for a discount we can afford, no one knows but him.

[VegasCanuck]

On 9/20/2020 at 12:17 AM, wai_lai416 said:

lol so who's replacing him? virtanen is most likely traded.. toffoli who knows.. ferland may or may not play again.. sutter and rousell are injury prone.. the bottom 6 have more holes than swiss cheese going into next season. Hoglander is not a bottom 6 player plugging him in there for the sake of filling a hole is just gonna ruin the kids development. kole Lind couldn't beat out Eriksson in the play in training camp i don't see him beating him out next season either. like it or not he's going to be the 13th foward and he's far more effective in a defensive role than any of the AHL options.

I think you might be confused regarding Eriksson's ability to stay with this team. Buying him out isn't really an option as we wouldn't save enough by doing it, we'd save more sending him to Utica.

 

As far as Lind goes, we don't know if he can out play Eriksson, that will be answered in training camp. What we do know is, we have a LOT of guys who can.

[189lb enforcers?]

Option 3 - Get younger. 

[Arrow 1983]

8 hours ago, iceman64 said:

I wouldn't be so sure, we can't sign and trade him? That completely impossible?  At least that way he'd have a choice to go somewhere he could land in a trade where he might not land in free agency, the team(s) that he may WANT to play for a live might not have cap either but rather trade instead, much like our team right now. So never say never.. or he may stay for a discount we can afford, no one knows but him.

I think a big problem for Benning with a Markstrom contract is that he is probably asking for a NMC if so it would force Bennings hand and he would have to trade Demko before the expansion draft. I just don't see Markstrom wanting to go to Seattle there is no guarantee that they will be another Vegas 

[EddieVedder]

On 9/20/2020 at 11:16 AM, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Still have to be able to play defense on the blueline.  Myers is passable defensively and Hughes, who already is decent (and will only get better) can only play so many minutes.  That leaves who? 

Hughes is a long way from decent defensively.  Until he can play regulary on the pk or be put in situations where hes counted on to defend the wat all top dmen should be, you cant call him decent defensively. Hes simply not.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

18 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

Hughes is a long way from decent defensively.  Until he can play regulary on the pk or be put in situations where hes counted on to defend the wat all top dmen should be, you cant call him decent defensively. Hes simply not.

Point taken.  Maybe I just cut him alot of rope because he was a rookie (and his age).

[Pete M]

On 9/19/2020 at 7:53 PM, Arrow 1983 said:

I have search and I have not been able to find out if there is a new buyout period for this season. As the league was suspended during the original buyout period I would assume that there will be a new one prior to the NHL draft. If I'm right I believe they could or should buy out Ferland and Roussel and I am positive that this sounds crazy at first glance so let me explain.

 

Ferland (cap hit 3.50mill) has 3 years remaining and is due no bonuses in those 3 years and has been paid 4.5mill in the first season. He is owed 9.5 million of 14million contract. If he where to be bought out this year it would be spread out over 6 years for a total of 6.333 million. This year would cost the Canucks 1.5555 million instead of 3.5mill on the cap and next year would only cost them .805mill on the cap the year they have to re-sign Hughes and Pettersson. After those two seasons they get Eriksson Luongo cap hits 9mil+ off the books and owe Ferlend 1.055mill on the cap over the next 4 seasons.

 

Roussel (cap hit 3.0mill) has 2 years remaining and is due no signing. He is owed 4.4mill. If bought out this year 2.9333mill would be spread out over 4 seasons. This season cap hit would be 1.233mill the next season after 1.833mill and the next 2 season would be .733mill.

 

So what does it all add up to, this seasons total for the 2 players would be 2.788 million instead of 6.5mill a savings of 3.712mill. Next season saving (Hughes and Pettersson re-sighing year) 2.638mill a savings of 3.862 mill. Then 2 years of 1.788mill a cap cost of 1.788 and 2 years at 1.055mill a cap cost of 1.055mill. Taking into account that Spooner's cap hit of 1.033mill comes off at the end of this coming next season and Eriksson and Luongo's come off the season after this scenario doesn't look as crazy as it did at the start of the post IMO.

 

What I think the team Should look like next season and Why

 

Forwards

 

Miller 5.25  Pettersson 0.925 Toffoli 5.25 (4-6 years)

Pearson 3.75  Horvat 5.50 Boeser 5.875

 

Bottom six in any possible order

Hoglander 0.891 (Eriksson AHL if Hoglander wins a spot (Eriksson NHL salary 4.925)) Gaudette 1.250 (2 years ?) Virtanen 2.75 (2 years ?)

Motte .975 (2-3 years)   Beagle 3.00  Sutter 4.375

MacEwen .925 (1-2 years)

 

Defence

 

Hughes 0.916  Tanev 5.00 (4-5 years)

Edler 6.0  Myers 6.00

Benn 2.00 and 2 of (Juolevi 0.863 Rafferty 0.700 Rathbone 0.925)

 

Goalies

 

Demko 1.050

Crawford 2.250 (2 years) Meets expansion draft requirement 

 

Other Cap hits

 

Baertschi  NHL cap hit 2.291

 

Luongo cap recovery 3.035

 

Buy outs 

Spooner 1.033

Ferland  1.555

Roussel  1.233

 

Cap overages from bonuses 1.700

 

Total Cap Hit  81,270,767

Cap Space 229,233

 

Not much of a change from last season other then the losses of Marky and Stecher and in coming of Hoglander if he can make the team and 2 rookie dmen. Some might ask why is this ok. My response is simple first, flat cap most of the competitive teams are in Cap trouble and will not be as good as they where this year due to it and if you disagree with this at least I can not see them getting better. Second, I would consider Toffoli an addition this coming season and one that I would consider a better addition then some other UFA as we already can see he has chemistry with the rest of the team.

 

Third, a lot will disagree with me about the loss of Marky but the truth is he was going to be hard to re-sign prior to covid and I would say almost impossible to re-sign now without dismantle more of the current team. Furthermore, this decision is going to have to be made now or next season with the expansion draft coming. Demkos next contract is most likely to be a better cap hit then Markys this just makes it easier to decide now with the flat cap. Plus why dismantle more of the team If down the road Marky is the one they are going to get rid of anyways. It really comes down to this if they are going to sign Marky Benning really has to trade Demko now well his stock is high because as Markys back-up his stock will just start to decrease. 

 

Forth and most important, to re-sign Hughes and Pettersson the Canucks are going to have to have cheap options on defense and forward we need to keep introducing young players into the lineup and having 2 of Juolevi, Rafferty, or Rathbone make the team as 6th and 7th defensemen gives them a spot to play and the experience in the NHL they need and the 3rd one out is the first call up. Hughes is the clear predecessor to Edler but this team needs a 2nd pairing left hand Defenseman after next season. On forward we can slot Holglander in on the left side, the Canucks need to do this so when Pearson is lost after next season we have someone to fill that left wing spot.

 

The importance to all this is to insure the rebuild stays on track Benning has drafted well. Now is the time to slot guys in get them experience and let older and more expensive vets go. This year it is Marky next year it will be Edler, Sutter and Pearson. This year coming in will be Juolevi, Rafferty, Rathbone hopefully (1-2 of these guys can stick) on forward Hoglander next year Podkolzin, year after Dipietro. They sign Tanev and Toffoli because they fill roles now that no one else can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

good work with the breakdown...however, Tanev doesn't need to be signed...Tryamkin can take his place for the playoff run, if he can be signed and play...give the young guys like OJ, Rafferty and Brisebois a chance....let Rathbone play a year in a development league to prove himself, if Rafferty, Brisebois and OJ are better options. Brisebois in the meantime can take Tanev spot to see what he has because he is ready for a similar role that Tanev plays.