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Everything posted by EdgarM
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[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Oh, good come back. Oh and I am not too particular about one player I just realize that the top lines NEED a player like Jake and not a player like LE. If Ferlund was fit to play I would say that it would make Jake less important, unfortunately that is not the case. The 2011 playoffs put a bad taste in my mouth in that our offense was nullified due to aggressive play in which no one in our top 6 had an answer. You go ahead and keep telling yourself that a guy like LE is good enough when we get outskated , out muscled and out checked right out of the playoffs again. I really don't want to see Petey get "speed bagged" or checked so heavily that he gets put off his game. Somebody's got to go into the corners and retrieve the puck for guys like Petey and Boes and I am not going to rely on a guy like LE come playoff time. Sorry. -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
One of these guys are stronger, younger, faster and as you can see below: has more offense. So , not looking at their names, which one would you say "outplayed" the other in securing a spot in the top 6? Speaking of winning, who scored more winning goals in these stats? One of them had 0 and one had 6. Just saying. 2019-20 Vancouver Canucks NHL 69 18 18 36 -4 41 | PLAYOFFS 16 2 1 2019-20 Vancouver Canucks NHL 49 6 7 13 -2 12 | PLAYOFFS 10 0 0 -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Your argument is pointless as we are talking about a small sample size anyway and Jake's time with that line wasn't anywhere the time LE spent on that line. Just because LE got in the oppositions way in a few games does make him my first choice in playing with our top offensive players. He did not contribute in any other way , believe me, I watched all of his games he played on that line. I also remember seeing times when he had empty netters and missed on those as well. You are not fooling anybody, he was useless. My whole argument is that Jake didn't get quality time to see what he can do. He made a mistake or didn't do what TG wanted and was immediately moved off that line. This is during the game, not after the game or even after the period was over, he was moved immediately. Almost all of our prospects have been given the opportunity to play through their deficiencies. This goes for Bo, Petey,Hughes and for the most part, Boes. Boes was relegated to the third line for a brief time last year but basically stays on the #1 PP and top lines even if he is struggling. I haven't seen Jake given any time on the #1 PP, PK duties or any quality time 3 on 3 and he is been on this team for 5 seasons now. I am not saying he would be a shoe-in for more quality ice-time but I would like to see the coach be a little more creative with this young group of players he is in charge with. I actually don't think he is a fit with Bo anyway I seen more coesion with him playing with Miller and Petey , but that would mess up the "649" line and we can't have that can we. -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Oh! so basically he was Bo and Pearson's "Luck Charm"? Hate to tell you this but being a PKer has nothing to do with earning a spot in the top 6. He could do that quite well in the bottom 6 where a guy with NO OFFENSE AT ALL, plays well defensively, who works hard and is more "consistent" plays. Oh and wasn't this discussion regarding "EARNING"? His offensive numbers does not spell earning a spot beside Bo in any stretch of the imagination. Nice try though. -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I have 2 words for you..........LUI.................ERICKSSON! 2019-20 Vancouver Canucks NHL 49 6 7 13 -2 12 | PLAYOFFS 10 0 0 -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I have 2 words for you..........LUI.................ERICKSSON! -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
As you can see by your own stats he never had any consistent time with the top 6. A 6 game stretch and a 10 game stretch "broken into 2 stretches", so really not much more then 5-6 game in a row. The other consideration to think about is that even if Jake "started" the game with the top 6, by the end of the game he was back playing on the 3rd line most of time, epecially if nothing was happening offensively, which I think played a big role in Jake's confidence over time. I know you are really, really trying to prove me wrong but the fact remains the same that he was not a "regular" in the top 6 and I think in order to find out if he fits there, he needs to given significant time there to fail or succeed. -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Yes thanks for confirming Ibatch. I also go by the eye test and watcing every game from start to finish. It really bothered me having LE consistently playing in the top 6 ,when he obviously hadn't earned it ,while one of our up and coming young guys like Jake are playing less minutes in a game. For this reason I paid attention to when Jake came over the boards and when LE did. I remember the preaching was we are developing our young core and that each player had to earn their ice time. I for sure realize that Jake lacked conditioning, and enthusiasm at times, but no one could tell me LE deserved being on the ice, never mind playing in the top 6. He came here as a high priced UFA to produce offensively and obviously that part of his game left him long ago. He is now praised for his defense ,which any of our prospects could be doing and should be doing. Jake needs to mature ,and that will come, but some on here are writing off a 24 year old , high draft pick, because sometimes he lacks enthusiasm and parties too much? My only hope is that he is given the chance to succeed, or fail, whichever happens in the next couple of years but that is not going to happen until the coach realizes that playing a guy like LE is a detriment to this team. They are developing and learning how to win and LE's only serves as a boat anchor and stagnates that process. Much like what was going on when the team clinged on to the Sedins when it was obvious they were past their prime and needed to retire. Let the kids play, let the kids develope and worry less about stats and who is right or who is wrong, just as long as OUR team wins. -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Oh my. Not sure what your stats are trying to prove but Read N7 Nucks and Ibatch's posts above please. -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Yes seen that "Doghouse" effect way too many times too. I thought professional coaches had more creativity then that. -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I agree, if you watch the games you would see when the lines get changed up. I did see way too much of LE for my liking though. -
I dont think Virtanen has the IQ to become a top 6 forward.
EdgarM replied to apollo18's topic in Canucks Talk
Yeah 4th on the team in hits with 102 last year, yeah he doesn't hit anymore. Player Age Pos GP G A PTS +/- PIM EV PP SH GW EV PP SH S S% TOI ATOI OPS DPS PS BLK HIT ▼ FOW FOL FO% 1 J.T. Miller 26 C 69 27 45 72 11 47 18 9 0 3 27 16 2 165 16.4 1387 20:06 6.0 1.9 7.9 38 123 425 293 59.2 2 Tyler Motte 24 C 34 4 4 8 -10 10 4 0 0 0 4 0 0 38 10.5 446 13:07 -0.1 0.1 0.0 37 118 8 11 42.1 3 Alexander Edler 33 D 59 5 28 33 13 62 4 1 0 1 22 6 0 118 4.2 1334 22:37 2.1 3.7 5.8 162 108 0 0 4 Jake Virtanen 23 RW 69 18 18 36 -4 41 12 6 0 6 15 3 0 150 12.0 903 13:05 2.9 0.8 3.7 28 102 -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
13 games per Centerman, read my post again. 20% with Bo and 20% with Petey or a total of 13 games per center. The rest, 43 games with the 3rd and 4th liners. But again, those times in the top 6 were not consistent so please let me know what the longest span he played in the top 6? You are telling me it wasn't "spot duty" as I suggested so what games did he play consistently in the top 6? I am pretty sure he did not play 40% of the time in the top 6 on a regular basis and 30 DIFFERENT LINE COMBINATIONS IN 1 SEASON!!!? There's consistency for you. -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
So he played 69 games last year and he roughly played 13 games with Both Petey and Bo(according to your stats) and the rest was with the 3rd and 4th liners which works out to be like 43 games. Those games he played with Petey and Bo were not consistent though as he was moved to play with every line and their dogs. I watched every game last year and he was not a consistent insertion into the top 6. Lui Ericsson on the other hand? -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I am saying he wasn't given consistant time in the top 6 as your info obviously backs up. Most of the time it was for a period or two but a lot of times it was a shift or two when Green was attempting to get something going when his regular lines were doing nothing. -
Who!!!?
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[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I agree, him along with Petey and Hughes are my 3 favorite players as well. Mainly because they bring to this team what we have been missing for decades. Once these guys mature and get more experience, watch out. -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Its funny you say that as 17-18 he had a total of TOI 899 and last year he had TOI 902.9. His time in the top 6 was minimal which the most he got was a few games when Boeser was struggling. Sometimes he got a peroid or so with them but usually it was a few shifts at the end of a game. Oddly enough, I remember him scoring more like a PPG pace and I remember a 4 game point streak that he had in that short time frame. You should go look at the stats because your memory is alluding you. -
[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Playing 10-12 minutes a night on the third and fourth lines for the majority of the season = 18 goals Playing more then 10-12 minutes a night, playing on the 1st or 2nd line and maybe some #1PP time = 25-30 goals. -
I don't know why you re saying we need to replace TT, Ferlund and Leivo as TT replaced Boeser when he was out and Leivo and Ferlund were pretty much injured the whole season. You said yourself Baer was not very good defensively hence his inability to move from the MINORS to the NHL last year. I believe he was given a brief audition last year and failed and went back to the MINORS. If he is as great as you think he is he would have stayed in the NHL. Yes Baer is good offensively but he is not great and if you play soft and you don't play well defensively, you better be scoring at alot higher pace then Baer has the ability to. He is a very one dimensional and hence a hindrance to the overall team performance, his offense does not outway his defensive deficiencies. Your idea of what the bottom two lines are going to look like as Sutter is our third liner and not on the fourth. Jake is ahead of Gaud in development and so Jake will probably see top 6 minutes a little bit more then Gaud will. Gaud will probably move back and forth from Center to Wing alongside Sutter to develope hid NHL game further. Very rarely does a Rookie jump in to a regular spot on the big team so the ones you mentioned will probably get spot duty as injuries occur throughout the season.
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Benning clearly wants to get bigger and harder to play against(Virtanen,MacEwen,Schmidt) and that did not include: Tanev,Stecher and Leivo. I really like the direction we are moving in that we are better prepared when it comes to playing in the post season when size and speed become more of an issue.
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[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen
EdgarM replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I agree, like who really cares if the "Kid" likes to party, so did E. Kane and P. Kane before they settled down. Kassian is another. I think posters get too caught up on one or two players and they lose sight of the big picture. We have been a team ,in past years, comprised of one dimensional players or players with one or two great aspects to the their game but they lack in others. So they can pass through traffic , like they have eyes in the back of their head, but their foot speed is atrocious or they can't hit or check. Or they are smallish players who can play great when there is room to skate, like in the regular season, but their game is nulified when the checking gets tighter ,like in the playoffs. Vegas has been successful for a reason. Jake carries a multitude of tools needed to succeed in the NHL and to play in the top lines. Speed, size, offense and he is still young. We need players to "Compliment" our top lines and Jake has the attributes which can do that. No, he is not a finished product, but he is trending upwards and I think he needs to be afforded "growing room" just as much as any of our young core does at the moment. It took players such as Bertuzzi or JT Miller 5-7 NHL seasons to start showing what they really can do so I am optimistic that Jake still has the ability to be a core piece to this team moving forward. -
You do realize that you are saying that minor leaguers are going to take over our NHL roster right? Baer couldn't make the team last year so all of a sudden he is going to knock out NHLer's this year? I have no doubt that some of our prospects are going to get their chance to play some NHL games but I don't think they are all of a sudden going to take over some regular NHLer's like Jake, who coincidentily just signed a new deal I might add. We are getting bigger and stronger and building this team with character and sorry but Baer does not fit that bill. He was given his chance and he failed. He is depth, and I use that word loosely, as is , I can't believe I am saying this, Ericsson. They are not part of our core. Leivo would of fell in that category as well. Some people cal them "depth" I actually call them "plugs" as they are only filling spots until our core is completed. JB knows what he is doing so I am confident he will field the best team he thinks will be successful both in the short term and in the long term.
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I dont think Virtanen has the IQ to become a top 6 forward.
EdgarM replied to apollo18's topic in Canucks Talk
I am thinking that Ferlund is pretty much done, which is unfortunate, because he is truly the kind of player we needed in the top 6. We need a big, aggressive player who can keep up with his line mates and pot in the odd goal here and there. Jake is our best opportunity of getting that player, if , he is given the opportunity. You are right, after 2 years, if we still don't see that player, then let him go. The problem is that the coach insists on benching him when he makes a mistake, ..................for the past 5-6 seasons!!!!! Time for change for both Jake and Green. -
I dont think Virtanen has the IQ to become a top 6 forward.
EdgarM replied to apollo18's topic in Canucks Talk
For the naysayers who say Jake can't play on the top line? This is what he can do when given the opportunity. I would like to see what he can do with more icetime and more meaningful minutes in the top 6 and PP. His points and plus minus look pretty good when he is given the opportunity. Oh, and by the way, both those goals were game winners too. 48 2020-01-16 48 23-152 VAN ARI W 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 2 50.0 19 14:29 0 0 0 1 0.0 49 2020-01-18 49 23-154 VAN SJS W 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 4 0.0 23 14:56 2 0 0 1 0.0 50 2020-01-27 50 23-163 VAN STL W 0 2 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 2 0.0 23 14:33 1 1 0 0 51 2020-01-29 51 23-165 VAN @ SJS W 1 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 2 50.0 28 17:34 0 1 0 1 0.0