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Everything posted by Baratheon
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Vote Smith! Nominate Murzyn! I was all ready to make a point of going modern and then Petey got nominated lol.
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I don't think anybody can even begin to argue against those points. 82' and 94' could both make for great movies. I don't think I have ever seen my entire family collectively erupt like when Bure scored in Game 7 against Calgary. That Minnesota series is just sad plain and simple. At least with 2011 I can (and obviously have haha) put a ton of blame on the league. Boston of course came at us SUPER hard as well. 2003 was different. It was just a bizarre showing. For whatever reason it doesn't even bother me all that much. I sort of shrug that one off as the oddball series. The series against Calgary in 2004 is actually more difficult for me to watch. Seemed like it was meant to be when Matt Cooke scored that goal in Game 7.
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Awww nooo! Don't throw Matt Cooke at me! It's not my fault okay! haha My point is not that we shouldn't consider the guys that you mention. I just think some posters (quite a few) are starting to overcompensate. I just would like us to remain honest about the whole thing. I'm not surprised that the high end of the list leans a little more modern. Most of the Canucks career leaders ARE more modern. I could watch the 1982 run any day of the week and twice on the weekend! I thought that it was basically consensus however, that the Canucks' best hockey came in the early-mid 90's and again in the early 200's to the early 2010's. Makes sense to me that more of their top players would come from those eras. However yes! Full respect to Smithers, Biestra and actually quite a few others. I am super grateful for the reminders of guys who were also my heroes as a kid! I certainly hope that nobody felt like I was throwing shade at them personally. The conversations (imo) were just starting to become a one way street. I'm just chiming in to support the boys!
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Hmmm I might have to switch gears with my nominations. The recency bias misconception seems to really be picking up too much steam. There's 2 players available to vote for who played within the last 20 years. Those 2 guys combined have about half the votes of Garth Butcher haha! At this rate someone is going to try and convince me that Steve Bozek should be ranked ahead of Boeser and EP. I know that it is with good intentions. I too want people to remember the heroes of the past. My opinion is just that the past INCLUDES the last 20 years!
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Vote Butcher Nominate Murzyn
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No argument from me! I wasn't meaning that there SHOULD be more active Canucks on the list. I was just using it as an example that I don't think recency bias has been that big of a problem. (though for sure there have been a couple that I raised my eyebrows at) The last core not only made it to the finals but also won back to back Presidents trophies so I'm kinda not surprised there are so many on the list. I might quibble with their placement a little bit but so far there is nobody from that core on the list that I would not have in my top 50. The funny thing is that I actually WANT to go for Petey, Boeser and Hughes because I think this list will look very different in 10 years. I'm not allowed to predict the future in that way however haha. So I gotta keep trying to make sure Butcher and Murzyn don't get forgotten lol
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Romanticizing the past is also a problem that has come up in the list. There are only 2 active Canucks voted in right now (looks like a 3rd is coming) Make a case for Larionov. He played 3 seasons for us and got over 50 points and 20 goals once during that time. Elias Pettersson hasn't even been nominated yet he has arguably been more impressive in his 2 years than Igor in 3.
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So what you guys are telling me is... Harold Snepsts should barely even be on this list!! (I'm kidding lol! I know that's not what you're saying)
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Vote Butcher! Nominate Murzyn!
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Bingo!
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Vote Butcher Nominate Murzyn!
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I'll join you on a Murzyn campaign!
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Wow the votes are so close every round! I knew the later rounds would be fun! The hardest part is actually voting haha
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I vote Garth Butcher! If I don't vote for him soon, I'm afraid he'll find out about it! Nominate Chris Oddleifson. If I don't nominate him soon, I'm afraid Biestra will find out about it haha!
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Dave Babych!
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I agree with some of this. Agree to disagree with the rest! "Daniel got a ten minute misconduct out of that for daring to tell Sutherland to do his job." Yep that more or less proves my point. "That was not playing "correctly". Not for a SCF game. And not after it was clear that the refs had put away their whistles for the season." The whistles had clearly been put away for one team only. To be honest though I am a little too burnt out from 2011 memories to try to make a rational argument. Normally I am confident that I can represent where I am coming from well but in this case probably not. I need to go back to burying these memories deep deep down haha.
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COVID-19 is making me live through all of this pain and I haven't even caught it!!
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Vote Dave Babych! Nominate Rick Lanz
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Yeah I think we're both pretty much on the same page. My main issue is more just how 2011 conversations seem to go (not only here but I have heard it all over the place). The dominant team that we had as well as the screw job by the league (usually) are brought up almost as afterthoughts. I think you're right about the Canucks' will getting broken (hence what we saw in Game 7) but I'm just choked that it was ever allowed to get to that point. Chicago and San Jose were hardly saints either but the league didn't just roll out the red carpet for them. And yeah! You're not going to get me to say anything negative about Stan freaking Smyl!! If we could get Doctor Who to time warp Stan Smyl on to either the 1994 or 2011 teams we'd win them both! lol
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I'm not going to deny that the 94 team and 80's teams were tougher than 2011. You're comparing vastly different eras of hockey however. If you'll remember part of my frustration is how the league preached a certain officiating standard that started after the 2005 lockout. They seamed to be sticking to that standard and all was well. Until one individual series that just so happened to be our shot. In 82 when Bobby Clarke was still running around swinging his stick like a sword it was pretty well known what you were gonna need on your team. The 82 and 94 teams didn't have to fight against the league the way 2011 did. Again I think the 2011 team did try to stand up for itself but got ganged up on by Bruins and then not supported by the refs in any way. I think we are all very proud of the way teh 94 and 82 teams fought their way against the odds. And we should be! In 2011 realistically we probably shouldn't have had to even struggle. If that Bruins series had been called anything similar to any other series since the lockout then we probably beat the Bruins in 5 if not sweep them completely. Don't get me wrong! I do wish that we still had Rick Rypien (RIP) to dart over there and obliterate Marchand but I don't think that it should have been necessary. I also think that the "speedbagging' incident looked worse than it actually was. I can tell you from personal experience that shots like that (although they are annoying!) don't really hurt or do much of anything. Daniel really was just trying to draw a penalty there. He didn't even feel the need to put his hands up or grab on to Marchand or anything. If Daniel had been a UFC fighter that is where you would see him laugh at the guy. Unfortunately Daniel is an ultra classy hockey player so it looks more like he's just being bullied.
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You guys sold me! Vote Dave Babych! Almost voted Garth but he can wait. Nominate Rick Lanz!
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You know those are some fair points and I appreciate the way you put them. No team is above criticism you are absolutely right. I have noticed that the main thrust of conversation around 2011 is always a negative one around the team however. I am still saying that the main reason why we lost is that we were screwed. That only ever seems to be brought up as an afterthought. Your points on game 7 are the most damning of our team that year but it is accurate. I think it had all gotten too overwhelming by that point. There actually were quite a few times when our players did try to stand up to the Bruins but they'd get ganged up on by 2 or 3 of them. We just weren't geared towards some kind of weird gang war (and we shouldn't have had to be) Now I do want to address what you said about people not daring to try something like that against the 1994 Canucks. That is unfortunately a bit of a myth that gets spread around and makes the more modern Canuck teams look bad. Were the Canucks teams of the past tougher? Yes! (most teams back then were) People took runs at Bure's knees all the time. I can remember being furious about it so it's quite a vivid memory lol. What the Rangers/Messier did to Linden at the end of game 6 is another example.
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Good arguments by Coconuts and AJ. I am still going to vote for Bo Horvat none the less. Since day 1 he has had the weight of the world on his shoulders because of who we traded for him. He's the kind of guy who we needed to pass the torch to. It's not just THAT he is our captain it's WHY he is our captain. When we drafted him, skating was touted as his weakness. He went to work and made it one of his strengths. EXACTLY the kind of example that a captain needs to set. He has shown himself to be quite durable as well. Also I'm not sure if anyone has noticed but the only currently active Canuck that has been voted in so far is Alex Edler. I refuse to believe that the notoriously bad expansion Canuck teams of the 70's had a roster of players so good that our bulldog of a captain can't get voted in. (that's my best effort for now haha) I'll join in and nominate Kevin McCarthy! I was gonna go with RIck Lanz but as long as it's one of the two!
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What is your favorite Canucks game of the last decade? (2010-2020)
Baratheon replied to Laheys Liquor's topic in Canucks Talk
My mom actually almost checked herself in to the hospital for her heart that night. Hours after the game was over, her heart was still pounding and she couldn't sleep. She was legitimately getting concerned. HAHA my poor mama! -
What is your favorite Canucks game of the last decade? (2010-2020)
Baratheon replied to Laheys Liquor's topic in Canucks Talk
It's definitely not my favorite of the decade but what immediately came to mind was our home opener this year against the Kings. If I'm not mistaken that's when LA lost to "a team like that" LOL It was fun!