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IBatch last won the day on March 19 2019

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10,095 Gaming the system


About IBatch

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    Canucks Franchise Player
  • Birthday 08/23/1973

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  1. Yep. If you took the “seconds” list and reduced their production by 2%... they’d still outperform everyone but the top players of the 2000’s a s 2010’s. The only way we will ever see something like that again is with retraction. Lose two teams per division and maybe it will get closer.
  2. Muller was a gamer. Keane maybe, he had some doozies. Tough customer’s those guys. In the Coffey fight - Paul clocked him early and woke him up a little - lots of things going on before that but Coffey was obviously pissed and broke through the crowd and the refs just to get to him. A spirited bout and for sure a good opponent - not a daisy. Neither were most on his fight card. Ohlund fought Iginla. Edler? Nobody. Coffey almost won the Hart in his 15th season ... and the Norris. Potvin retired after 15 but started at 20. These guys were better then 95% of their competition right until retirement. And like the Hockey News says every time they do a review of the current best of the best - not all Norris or Harts are equal. They use Perry’s Hart as an example. Having a typical Perry season until the last 20 games when he exploded for about the same many goals to beat out D Sedin.... robbery. And in the 2000’s everyone was gone. All the hockey hero’s from my youth and 20’s. Sucked. Pronger IMO, was probably the most dominant D of the decade but his reign was short. Lidstrom kept winning trophies (one for sure undeserving- his last one) but only had Niedermayer and Pronger to contend with at that point. In the 80’s .888 was a decent sp. In the 2000’s .906.... if you do the math it’s a two percent difference. Wow. The goalies were 2% better. Make it 10% which would mean they save .98 percent of the pucks and reduce all those guys by 10% ... and still the top guys ridiculously outperformed the guys of the 2000’s. Thornton... Lidstrom, Gonchar and Rafalski ... didn’t hold a candle to the 80’s and 90’s top players. Im hoping that McDavid and co, and the new rules plus the amazing crop of young D’s coming in will at least compete a little with how hockey used to be - of course the toughness factor is gone for good - but at least there is hope that things can go full circle again. Still the only way that would ever happen is with retraction. Go back to 6 teams a division and maybe it would be close. The talent level is high right now at the top, but low at the bottom, extremely low even with fourth lines made for enforcers back then.
  3. Nope, he was not. IMO and I can’t say this from actual experience because I was too young to remember and didn’t watch Orr play, he’s the closest thing to Orr that the league has ever had, and that if Orr’s career wasn’t cut short, Coffey’s mimicked it well. Both are considered top ten skaters all-time (Coffey actually higher), both did the tough stuff when they needed too. Sure Coffey wasn’t a fighter - but he did fight. Six times his rookie season, just like Potvin did. And yes it was a rougher era so can understand how relatively he wasn’t a hard-core Manson type. But he wasn’t a push-over. Doubt Horvat will have as many career fights when he’s done, and does anyone question his toughness? Well maybe a little but only because he’d be that much more of a boss. Just for kicks I watched his Kirk Muller fight again. Don’t see Edler...well how many fights has he had again? Or well let’s just say if Coffey was playing on our current team he’d be the resident goon. And that’s not his game.
  4. He’s lucky to still be a GM, and for sure it was a risky move. Not unlike the risk WD took coaching that turd sandwhich team and look where that got him - well one little chance in LA but not exactly a great way to start your NHL career and likely done for good now. TG looks like he’s going to get some legs with his career...but then when he started things weren’t much better other then BB joining the fold then when WD was here. Luckily for him, each year the teams roster has modestly/greatly improved - and so has our record go figure. WD had a great moustache, but it wasn’t enough, and neither was Megna ha ha ha ha ha. Or Chaput. Or Gagne or Del Zotto. I was wary when we first hired Travis Green. Knew enough about him growing up - but wasn’t sure if he was just another WD type as in rebuild fodder. Turns out he’s actually pretty good. Always gets the players going, and all the research on him supports that he truly belongs in the NHL. Maybe he skipped the line a little not starting as an assistant coach at this level - but there’s a valid reason for it - hardest working coach in the AHL. Once I read some stuff on that - and how forward thinking/cerebral he was, became much more comfortable with him becoming our head coach. Now (by outside Vancouver media sources), he’s viewed as having just as much potential as EP, BB and QHs has. THN has been commenting on that the last couple of years including TG rookie coach season, his sophomore and his third. Our ascension will clearly determine his as well - but if for some unforeseen event he does get fired soon (not going to happen), he won’t have to wait long to get another job on another team. It grates me a little when some folks get overly critical of him. Probably my favourite thing about him (other then getting a very good effort from his team every game), is that he doesn’t use the “Keenan blender” or the blender after each loss or during the games ... and that he knows and speaks about how this is a young team and that confidence has a lot to do with our down cycles during a season. Loved how he spoke during the Vegas series too. That we weren’t here just to gain experience - but to win. That’s the exact correct thing to say. Even though - yes we were there to do exactly that (gain experience). Maybe if Trotz was available I’d be on board with a coaching change. Other then that I’m stoked we have him, just like I’m stoked we have EP. Nice to have a brand new coach, that can grow and win with our brand new core.
  5. Hey I want to play too. I don’t like the Orca compared to other uniforms, but I don’t hate it either, it’s like your friends annoying kids brother, eventually you get used to him being around and tolerate him as part of the group - once you get to that point you find yourself defending him more because he’s part of the group then because you actually want too. People Polls have shown the Orca as the third favourite (so far), but it doesn’t mean those that voted for them don’t love all three (four). The only uniforms I really don’t like are the first Orca ones ... purple? Black and purple and blue and white pin stripes and is that red or magenta or what is it? And why’s the Whale have to be native art done in a way that looks so terrible? They morphed a little during the WCE era but didn’t really get there until they changed the colours entirely. And yes maybe Messier coming in and pulling that on for the first time .... well after the initial shock I was actually excited! This guy just finished two great, normal, Messier seasons - lots of goals, lots of points etc - wow what a perfect one two punch down the middle. Exciting didn’t last long....like lobbing a hand grenade into the dressing room, the best roster ever assembled didn’t have a chance. Imagine if he accepted the A and fell in line as our second center instead and supported Linden. And Bure and Mogilny stayed. As for these reverse retro or whatever, seriously disappointing, could have been an opportunity to do the V, it looks ok I guess but wish they went bolder or further down the line.
  6. Another fable about Coffey - sure he was no Robinson, but he definitely held his own - close to 2000PIMs over his career, half his seasons with 100-195... He wasn’t a pushover, and his career fights line up with Potvin...and some of those guys on his fight card were tough S.O.B.s. Definitely ahead of a lot of the others on the list in that regard. Like saying Bourque wasn’t tough. That said all three were unreal - part of a very small group of guys below Orr and ahead of the next of the best.
  7. Babych was the 7th highest scoring defenseman of the 80’s, around some very big names, 4th in assists. Robinson and Carlyle were 12th and 11th for some perspective. And Coffey was almost 200 points ahead of Ray Bourque....283, 669 and 952 points in 733 games... Regardless of better goalies for some and the lock-out and rule changes, in the 2000’s Lidstrom led the group with 550 points in 719 games, followed by Gonchar with 500 points in 627 games and Rafalski with 435 points in 695 games. Babych scored more then all these guys in the 80’s. To make a complete mockery of the record books Gretzky scored more then Howes entire career in the 80’s with 1842 points ha ha. And Coffey over 100 points more then Joe Thornton did as the leading scorer of the 2000’s. And over 150 more then the leading scorer Patrick Kane did in the 2010’s....and based on goals alone he’d be the 6th highest scorer the past decade (Coffey). Edit: Back to Gretzky. His 90’s PGP was second to Mario’s for the decade, and nobody else has come close to that since over a ten year period or over a career...even his second half where he became somewhat mortal, and half during the dead puck era, Crosby and Ovi can’t touch him.
  8. A few times early on mentioned him in passing as in who else isn’t nominated yet...in today’s game Weber wouldn’t be a bad comparison - aside that Weber hasn’t won a Norris or a cup (does have his gold medal though). Different players for sure, but both at or near the top of their classes for a long time - and always play against the other teams top competition. Blake was a monster punisher - like Adam Foote in his own zone but much better at the other stuff. For a five year period during his peak - he was right at or near the top. Old reliable. We used to laugh at him when he first came in - all 6’4” of goofy looking good old potatoe farmer Rob Blake ... then he’d stand up a guy like Stevens (Kevin) at the blue line and we were like - “holy f!ck!!” - “did you see that!” .... came in like a seasoned pro. Much deserving of the HHOF and I’d have him on my team before a few already on the list for sure.
  9. Blake was a beast in right from the get go. A punishing hitter and great at standing guys up at the blue-line. Watched every game in 93 playoffs, for sure that was his coming out party year. Was happy for him getting his cup although Bourque certainly overshadowed it. At the time he’d have been one of the early picks off anyone’s list if they could build a team around anyone. Hit like a tank - Stevens and Blake were for sure two of the best at it. Big dude - and played his entire prime in the dead puck era. .. Won the Norris in 98 as well as the first team all star...and second team all-star three consecutive years in the deepest part of the dead puck era 2000,2001,2002. Pronger, MacInnis and Lidstrom at that point were his steepest competition. Edit: and FYI the only NHL game I’ve ever played was one from 93-94...a Nintendo game - I always played Detroit and my bro Vancouver...Paul Yserbaert was my secret weapon - had a glitch if I came done the wing with him and shot at the goal line he was unstoppable ha ha.
  10. For those that are following this thought I’d speed it up a little. Congratulations Potvin and Robinson, as for those that watched them it’s like splitting hairs ... who would you really want on your team? Well BOTH for sure ha ha. That said Potvin edged Robinson by one vote, democracy has spoken despite the small sample size. Potvin and number six, and Robinson at number seven. Both guys absolutely deserving to be in that range. Living legends both of them. A re-cap; 1. Orr 2. Lidstrom 3. Bourque 4. Harvey 5. Coffey 6. Potvin 7. Robinson Imagine that all playing together at once. Scary. Don’t forget to nominate someone. And thanks for playing. Now that the shenanigans are over ... it’s time to put Shore on the list. FYI the Bible of rankings, from 1998 had him before Bourque and Shore as the greatest defenseman after Orr that ever played for Boston .... number 10 of any player at the time all-time. That said Al Mac... well he deserves serious consideration. Still nominate Zubov.
  11. Yes all of this. Personally feel it’s up in the air at this point and really a lot will come down to what happens this season. He had an excellent rookie season and for two series anyways plus one game... already set a team record for Canucks D in what of been the conference final under normal circumstances. If they all signed right now (Dahlin, Heiskanen, Makar and Hughes) can’t see them not being within one million of each other on 2-3 year deals. McAvoy and Werenski aren’t terrible comps either - and Covid probably won’t play into it too much - as we’ve seen the best still are getting paid but who really knows. Already considered better by quite a few rankers then some very, very impressive names that all have massive pay cheques. To me it has more to do with how second contracts have gone way up since the Tavares, Karlsson, Doughty, Keith years. Tavares for example was getting half the leagues max salary at the time, a top C and massively hyped prospect. EK had already proved his ascension to the top of the pile. That would be 5-6 million over 4-5 year period under the old system. Now top players are getting paid 25% more at least then they used to get coming off their ELCs percentage wise. Can’t see Hughes making less then Schmidt or Myers unless he has a terrible season. If he maintains 6-7, if he excels then maybe more on a 3 year deal. That said I completely disagree with some of the 8-10 talk. Won’t happen even if he scores 90 points. Our cap window is and should be when EP and QHs are on their next deals. Personally I’d be ok with a Mathews type deal that takes them both to free agency if the price is right given Horvat and Miller’s current age. Something like 6 x 5. Will give management a lot of wiggle room, same with EP maybe 7 x 5. Teams get completely handcuffed on third contracts all the time (see MIN Parise/Sutter, see CHI Toews Kane, see LA etc) unless they are TB or Vegas. Im not at all worried about it - this exactly the sort of problem if you want to even call it that - our team needs - it means we have someone special which of course we do. If I had to guess right now I’d say his next contract would be 6.25 x 3. And that’s it.
  12. Based on this - IF QHs was paid like a top 11 D, his contract would be around 7.8 in a long term deal. Sure a lot of the contracts in that area are older ones - BUT a lot of them are the third contract long term legacy deals. I’d be perfectly happy to see QHs signed at 7.8 x 8... Edit: Feel he’s going to get 6.5 x 3 when all things are said and done. He’s already our ace in the hole as far as our defense goes, the offensive engine or stick that stirs that anyways. If he ends up paired with Schmidt then watch out - the sky’s the limit. Housley 2.0, we’ve never had anything like him aside from Reinhart who was almost done at the time. By the time he’s 27-28 will have passed Edler as the all-time leader in points. And barring serious injury and with a 17-20 year career could surpass 1000 points.
  13. Yes. He kills penalties and mans their second unit ... with occasional rare duty on the first. Sergachev is also a battering ram when he feels like it, which was often enough the second half of last season and through the playoffs - he plays a physical game as well. Makar is probably a better QHs comp, and he will get paid for sure, but Covid and cap issues actually will keep it reasonable. The size of both these guys cheques will have a lot to do with how they play this year. I’m hoping JB can get him signed early, but doubt the agents are that interested. Both are capable of a PGP contract year which would put them into 7 territory on a bridge deal for sure - even with Covid. For sure he’s getting more then Myers, Edler and Schmidt.
  14. Yes all decades weren’t created equal...and I’ve been beating that bush for awhile on the lack of truly high-end D’s in the 2000’s... it’s nice to see what looks like full circle and another generation of high skilled D’s come in at one time (have compared it Bourque and the early 80’s a little - Bourque, Coffey, Housley, Murphy) but we will have to wait and see at least a year or so to find out more. The fact they came in and were that good right away is encouraging for sure...sure would be neat to see a D get over 90 points again.
  15. Yep. That’s ok. Still fun ... personally after Orr there is a small group at an entirely different level then the rest and both Potvin and Robinson are in that range.