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IBatch

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Everything posted by IBatch

  1. No doubt ... and it's always taking the puck or regaining it even in our zone first then skating and passing it ... enough time for one or two plays/shots and it's done. Not many teams split the two equally though or even close to it. Last one i remember was 2002 DET...
  2. That's a little bit of an exaggeration. Down the stretch the PP burned bright hot because Horvat and EP were red hot (and Miller got a lot of apples)...he walks the line better then OEL and pretty much anyone in the league right now ... his passing is very good but his shot isn't very good. OELs for sure is better and it's not even close really.. Im fine keeping QHs on the first PP unit, that's his bread and butter. As for OEL, he was pretty decent when he did get a few games on the PP... but don't see why we'd change the two out
  3. I lost the writer when he called him their "most productive D in club history"... that of course, was Zubov, who could control the play in all 3 zones. Kind of lost some credibility with that one comment. Then comparing him to Josi.... well i do think he's got some bias going on.
  4. Have a couple myself ... not fun. And for sure they change the way you can play. Brock seems pretty good now though. I still am hoping he's got a 40 goal season in him, on our team. On the bright side he can score 20 in his sleep, and 30 seems pretty reasonable...in the bubble he was on his way to have a very good season. Let's hope that's the Brock we get here on out.
  5. Garland was 22nd for points scored for RWs last season ... and 12 for even strength points. Was also 11th for plus minus, highest on our team i think too, plus 18 (Myers was tied with him until a Choas Giraffe game near the end as an aside lol)... still tops for our D core. Once you consider his age, the fact those are UFA years, Garlands contract looks even better. For now at least. Brock on the other hand, barely earned his last deal (RFA...oh well, IF you put the two contracts together, six years of Brock at that price we'd have pee'd our pants happy over that 3 years ago lol) - and for sure will have to find his former form to earn his next deal. Only one year of UFA bought. Don't mind either contract though, both have their pros and cons. Brocks pro is he's still getting paid for "what if potential"...Garlands a little bit too but it's extremely palatable. He can also play the left side which is a bonus. Based on pure points, Garland should be making more, quite a bit really because all the guys in the top 20 are regular PP guys. He isn't. Edit: Goal scorers for sure get a bump in pay. Garland should be good for around 20/35 the way he's played. 5 x 5 he's very good value. Wonder if the team has enough to start splitting up the PP time a little. Not many teams can do this, but we for sure are one of them.
  6. I was thinking of mentioning that, but then we'd have to open a can of worms ... one is that Brock, like this generations best goal scorer (Ovi), did half his damage on the PP. Still it's true, and the other line mate that season was Bear. Personally with better wingers, why wouldn't be expect Horvat to surpass that season by 10 plus points? That puts him in the 70's... Also hope we re-sign him before that happens lol.
  7. Yes i agree. He's not going to pass the puck as well as Miller, or try as often to split the D ... but he's decent at both, and he always gets his goals. If you dig a little deeper you will find out his assignments have also been very heavy, takes the most face offs, often at or near the top on the entire league, and a lot of them are in our own zone, against guys like McDavid and McKinnon aka the best lines in hockey. It's not like Millers line is getting Sedin O-zone time, but for sure they are the first line out after Horvats got it there. Someone did a calculation on how many points our guys got under Bruce and pro-rated it for the year ... it's not EP who scored the most goals, it was Horvat. On pace to have a prime Kesler like season. And Bruce rolled 3 lines for awhile before he loaded the top line up ... Miller on the other hand, was on pace for 120 or so lol. So ... next season might be a treat! The only other team i've seen in our history with as much firepower was the ones from the early 90's. Horvat and EP on pace for over 40, and a few guys in the 30's ... Brock, Miller ... plus we have a number of guys who can get 18-22 goals as well. Pearson, Garland, Ilya M, Podz ... maybe Kuzmo.. It's possible we have 7-8 20 goal scorers next season. Plus four guys in their 30's and two in the 40's. Not saying it's going to happen, but if you check what the peak Sedin and WCE era teams scored you might be surprised they never broke 300. And that's with a lot coming from the blue line. This team's forward group might score more goals next season, then we've seen since the early 90's. It's what Bruce wants too. Don't have to defend if we are in the ozone, and it makes sense given the roster. Sure nice to see. At least things have rolled back to the early 2010's that way, difference is it's not four guys doing most of the heavy lifting. Linden, Ronning, Nedved, Bure, Courtnall, Adams, Ward etc etc scored i think 343 one boffo year in 93. Only other time i've seen a lot of young talent at the same time, although they for sure also had their vets. EP, Miller Horvat. to me that's = to the Center depth from 93 as well. We've got a glut of guys upfront that's for sure. What did the peak Sedin teams have? Burrows, Higgins, Samuelson etc for wingers lol... Raymond. Aside from Burrows not much really.
  8. Brave guy but looked how it worked out for him. Got the rack and other stuff. So no thanks. PK Subban at the league minimum i suppose would be ok. Look what Edler signed for lol.
  9. Kevin Hayes got that deal ... aside from him, I haven't seen any second line C's get a deal like that so far anyways. But it won't be far off either. 6.5? Also Horvats production ... he was on pace to lead the Canucks in goal scoring down the stretch ... give him the same linemates and assignments, you might be pleasantly surprised with what Horvat can accomplish. Close to a PPG is my guess, maybe even more one year. He starts with the puck in his zone often. Miller does not. His best linemates we're gulp Bear and one year of Brock so far and managed over sixty. If you want to compare 6.5 x 8 vs 8.5 x 6 that's pretty fair. Difference is Horvat, you get all his best seasons, 6ish out of 8 all peak ones, 3 of them peak prime at least - Miller you get 3 seasons of past peak prime but still prime, and 3 really bad cap seasons, the vast majority of the time anyways. If Bruce rolls 3 lines ... both Miller and Horvats stock will take a hit. EP was on fire down the stretch, and Miller played with him. Horvat was on fire too, but it doesn't get a lot of recognition. All he does is play most of career with chumps, never complains. Wonder how Miller would feel if Bruce gave Horvat some time and reversed the roles? Edit. Personally think we can keep both. And that it fits with QHs and Demko's window. The cap is going to start going up the second year of their deals. And the entire league needs it too. Given there won't be many teams that can juggle other teams cap, i'd suspect we see a guy like Pearson traded at the deadline just to help the following season even if we are in the show. Also expect we likely see one of these guys signed during the year. The other dominoes fall from there. Strength down the middle is our identity. At least at the moment and for now. As for the "window" ... the team does a re-set around EP most likely, possibly QHs. I'm not holding my breath that any of our US players, stay in Canada though.
  10. It's because Miller will be 30 his first year of his next deal .... It's not just Toews, there are plenty of other examples. The Sedins, HHOFers ... Benn, Giroux, Hall. Pretty much EVERY current player, except generational talents or future HHOFers - only ones that come to mind are Bergeron, Crosby, Malkin (often injured), Oveckin and Pavelski. How is it leaps and bounds stretching to say that half of Millers next deal he will be ok, the other half not so much? Let's say 3 years ok, 3 years ugly. Horvat on the other hand, could sign an 8 year deal , following the same career arc, and be on his 3rd season before he's 30 ... 6 of 8 years be ok including the 3 best seasons most players ever have. Naslund - how old was he? 27 when he broke out ... Miller too, same with the Sedins...how were they North of 30? Well Sedins we're great at 29/30, had a few typical seasons and dropped fast... Can you give me examples i missed?
  11. Declining asset? Are you not pumping Millers tires whenever possible? He's a poster perfect example of a likely declining asset. If Toews can't do it, or Benn, or Sequin...or Hall... why should we assume Miller can? He's not a generational talent. Or ending up in the HHOF. He's just really good right now, and we've seen (ok well i sure have) a ton of guys hockey players do this over the years and very very few, do what Pavelski has done. It's debatable the Sedins even managed it. Their deals were in the 8.6ish range in todays money x 2. We literally just went through this as a team and fanbase. Burrow's? He got paid for past production big time. Kesler? He earned every cent of his deal. And fans still turned on him. Miller has punched well above his cap hit, everyone knows that. But id bet. as soon as he gets paid 8-9, he's going to be scrutinized if he's in a slump, isn't at least a PPG guy etc. And based on history, it's slim odds - extremely slim, that he's going to be a good number one center the duration of his next deal. Half of it will be ok, the other half not good. It would be fine IF we had a backlog of prospects waiting to balance the books we don't. This is what i predict is going to happen. Horvat will re-sign, it won't hurt us either. Unless Miller is traded before the season starts, the odds of him re-signing go way down, same with the odds of him getting traded. When is the last time you've seen a team in a good playoff spot trade their best forward? Has it ever even happened? And i think this is a playoff team. Love Miller, but there are solid reasons why media types keep speculating. I'd love to have Miller on our team for 11ish years total. Is that going to happen though? Not very likely.
  12. Re-signing either guy will affect the other ...whomever gets signed first will make a statement on the cap pecking order on the team. Miller shouldn't earn less then EP for example. And won't either. It's his UFA deal .... and he's earned it. Sure age plays into it. Horvat hasn't played as long as Miller, but both guys played well enough to earn a spot on their teams off the hop. Funny, the first thing I said when we traded for Miller was "we just added another Horvat "...and we kind of did. Horvat never complains, has a stoic leadership quality that isn't bad at all - Sakic did too, same with Yzerman. Nobody questions their leadership abilities, and shouldn't either. Nobody expected Miller to go for 100 points last year ... made the season memorable in a good way. That said, would anyone be shocked to see Horvat score at a PPG pace with EP and Brock on his wings? I sure wouldn't. Not saying Horvat is a better playmaker because he's not, but believe he's for sure a better goal scorer - but isn't played in the Ozone as often as possible etc either. 40-45 goals under Bruce down the stretch was what he was on par for ... EP too. We need BOTH these guys to sign if we want to continue to have strength down the middle, and would be stoked if they announced signings at the same time. We for sure don't need any made up leadership stuff ... This teams full of leaders. I know our D needs tweaking. And eventually we will get there. Miller for Dobson or Byram would be amazing, but doubt it's going to happen. We trade Ilya M or Garland plus Pearson, we've got money for all the teams raises....for sure it will hurt some ... but for sure it's possible too. And some of that coming back will be their cheaper replacements cap wise. The TDL is the time to deal with that. It's either going to be Miller or a couple other guys. I doubt even if we are in a great position going into the post season (unless for some odd reason we are a top 2 team in the West), it's going to happen. Cap will be cleared to either sign these guys, or Miller gets traded. Not a fun time to live in a cap world for a lot of teams .... ours ... is just getting good and WHAM! Got to take our lumps.
  13. Wonder how Horvat would do with wingers like EP instead .... guys pretty solid given Pearson and LE were his mostly regular wingers since Miller joined us. He was also scoring at the highest clip (goals) on the team down the stretch... He's a pretty valuable second line C .... At over 40 goals prorated. Maybe he's got a Kesler like peak performance in him, not on the other side of the puck, he's decent defensively, adequate at least, but i would wonder how he'd do with equal linemates as Miller. Bear and Brock so far was his high water mark. For sure he's got better wingers then he did with Green now ... Miller is a great Canuck ... IF he re-signs with us, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him on the first page, with a lot of other Canuck legends, after he retires and The Hockey News does their ranking of teams and their best players all-time. He's already cracked the top 50. And when this seasons done might even be in the top 30. Horvat of course is too. We are lucky to have both of them ... and a pretty deep forward group ... possibly the deepest we've had since the early 90's.
  14. Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks. I like Garland. "Maybe a 4th rounder ".... I do wonder what people are going to say about Ilya Mik after one season too. Maybe a 6th rounder? Hard to say. Both the eye test and the stats put Garland right there last year...well actually he punched above his cap hit modestly. No i don't expect him to get 80 points with first line PP minutes. What was Burrows best season like again with the peak Sedins? He had four years, 51, 67. 48, and 52. This team is not that. And Garland isn't playing with the twins either lol....Maybe we should reserve a lot of judgement, at least for awhile anyways. Personally i thought Garland gave his most every night. And like him for it. Not too shabby for his first year with us at all.
  15. At some point, you just know that kid is going to kick someone in the junk.
  16. Lol. Garland isn't going anywhere just to clear cap space. Sure only one year, but with two different coaches he managed just fine. And a new team as well. Both Garland and EP drew more penalties then anyone else. And Bruce ... didnt seem so fond of him. Garland ... what do you think a 4th rounder is actually worth? Most 4th overalls likely won't end up having the career Garland will have by the time his current deal is done. Edit: Your namesake - i have some doubts about though. Guess we find out next year.
  17. Says who exactly? Damn. Guy takes their team to the final four two years in a row and look all you'd like, but in 40 years of following the NHL i've never seen a team go from one of the worst defensive teams, to a top 3 one overnight, and he did that after they lost Tavares! Maybe he lost the room. But he sure did in NSH for a very long time, and that team just kept producing star after star D's under his watch no matter where they were drafted. Media is just that - makes sh!t up all the time. Sure turned on him fast if this is true. Good grief, one of the best coaches of his era. And he's not stupid like Babcock, or anything like Keenan either.
  18. Don't worry it's been kaboshed twice already (Klingberg coming here)... Doesn't mean we can't talk about how silly and or stupid it is though. For me, Klingberg at 5 x 5 or no thx. Someone recently pointed out zone exits and entries ... guess what? Myers was at near tops in the league for that too when he first came in too, better then Edler and Tanev by a long shot. Green and Bomber f!cked with that. With everyone but QHs, let him do whatever he wanted too. I haven't seen many D's, walk the PP line as well as QHs does ... but i have seen quite a few that did it as well. Sure on a 3rd pairing which should boost your numbers, but we've seen him do it often enough to understand he's got that going on for him. Ugh. Klingberg to me is a luxury we can't afford right now. And he's not coming here unless he's this years Jake Gardiner and signs for way less then he thought was possible. Already fired his agent lol. I doubt he's going to be that happy with whatever deal he does get. As for Myers. He's not nearly as terrible as some are promoting. Sure maybe he's a bit expensive. Funny how it was crickets Edlers final contact out of respect, after a decade of slamming him on the CDC. I'm just grateful the CDC didn't exist in the 80-90's. Some of my hero's i'd be pretty sad to see dragged through the mud. Myers is fine. And wouldn't cost as anything to move. We won't move him either.
  19. Yes his legend is just that. Legend. You just made my point. Full stop. But nice!
  20. And since i started talking about overrating and idol worship. Lidstrom. The guy who couldn't win a Norris until guys from the 80's aged out. Funny stuff. Yet some think he was the best D all-time which is a huge slap to the face of Orr, but also Coffey, Potvin, Robinson, and also say Al Mac and of course Borque. Probably Harvey too. Check out his steepest comp during the 2000's ... guess who's second in scoring (and of course it's not just points)..it's Rafalski and Gonchar lol. Guys who'd you'd never consider as Norris candidates. Scott Neidermayer and Pronger were his stiffest competition. I remember Chelios when he was dominant too. His team wrecked our follow up to a final appearance ... and it was mostly Chelios. Pronger was otherworldly for a couple years until his injuries did him in. Blake. Leetch. Zubov lol...at 37, scored over 70 points after the lockout! Lidstrom wasn't even the number one D on his team in the 90's...guys like Borque, Coffey, Potvin, Orr did it from the start until they were done. Coffey now would be considered a brute too lol..dropped the gloves. To me and know this is going to rub people the wrong way, Lidstrom was the Larry Murphy of his generation with a little better defense. How does that make him a top five all-time D? Or even a top ten? Hardware. And on that, his last one was a joke. Only D in history to be gifted (which they absolutely did - just to tie Harvey i suppose) as a minus player?
  21. Hey i'm with you. Maybe if he comes back he gets waived who knows. And absolutely agree, it's up there with a couple dozen games with Tyler Toffoli and a half season of Sundin for absolutely ridiculous. Sure it was ok when they played. That's about it. We've had plenty of guys come and go since i've watched the team ... can't say i remember anyone that gets this sort of attention. And have called it out myself as well. Nonis had to wait four years for Burke's cap to run out. Had one of this teams best drafts ever. And a couple duds (RIP Bourdon). But highly doubt he'd had offered Sundin the league max contract at the time - 10 x 2. Are you kidding me?!!! Wow. That's like 15 now or something. For say Joe Thornton or Iginla when they were still decent but almost done. Goofiest contract this clubs ever offered - and some fans hang onto a comment made by the Sedins - which - just to be clear was paraphrasing: Media - "what was it like playing with Sundin and what if he do to help your careers?" - Sedins " was amazing, such a great player, a legend, a leader. What he taught us was just to relax in the playoffs and play like it's just another regular season game" .... Think about that. Sundins legend for some fans is just out in left field. Same as the contract was, but the best thing he actually did for the team was only playing half a season, taking half his pay and not following through. Mike Gillis first big move was just like a kick in the balls to Burke and Nonis and all the heavy lifting they did. Sundin was a bullet fortunately we dodged. And funny, Linden was the guy who got us past Turco. Sure he'd had signed for 10 x 2 lol. The fact Sundin was his client also seemed extremely fishy at the time. Like super fishy, kickback fishy.
  22. In those beer gut guys defense, OJ was a cocky kid around and after the draft ... comments like "you can't teach hockey smarts " and when asked about his conditioning, which was already a concern - "anyone can go to the gym - you can't teach hockey smarts"...MAYBE, if he spent more time in the gym, those injured wouldn't have ever happened in the first place. Why Vancouver would pick a guy who on every scouting list, was below both Chychrun and Sergachev (i'm not talking about media personalities - NO team takes that seriously, just a ton of fans do) .... and way down the first round or even early second round prior to the WJs - is the reason why OJ was such a prickly pick for some. We all wanted PLD, MT was a pipe dream ... 1-3 all year. Now that MT is showing his true colours and desire to play in the US, i'm glad we passed on him ... although those assets they got in return is still a lot better then OJ lol. It is what it is .... can't win them all. No GM hits on all their first rounders. Edit: To be clear - ISS, who's only job is to scout ... and THN who takes an aggregate average of ten NHL team scouts rankings and creates a final list (not the writers, they also post their personal opinions, which let's be real, are just like throwing darts on a board and then writing about it lol) ... 9-12 ... we picked him at 5 lol. And Chychrun, the year before the draft, was the front runner for first overall. Sergachev...man OJ was on an absolutely loaded London team, one of the most dominant we've seen in awhile ... and Bouchard outproduced him draft plus one. Heffy and aGENT ha ha ha. That guy.
  23. Sedins draft year is considered the worst in league history...if the Sedins weren't drafted .... it would be impossible to beat that, in a bad way of course! Burke's mechanics that year, was absolutely brilliant. And i actually really liked McAbe. Went on to he a star for awhile himself. Look at that first round lol. Jackman, Havlat and the Sedins and a gigantic amount of failures. If the league didn't lock down and change the rules, things would have been even worse.
  24. Problem is he's better on the wing. Bruce has a lot of work to do creating his lines and match ups. Does he roll 3 lines? Or does he load two up and have a mish mash for a 3rd one ... Dickie in the middle wasn't great. I still hope he works out of course, team needs him too. Worst case, he gets waived. Doubt he gets picked up but you never know, Dallas sure loved the guy.
  25. Not sure if you noticed, but he was actually decent when he played under Bruce and not so terrible before either. Maybe his migraine issue's were caused by Green? Pretty sure most fans believe he was the main problem going into last season (with a healthy dose of JB regime added). Funny thing is, for 2.5 - he's actually very decent when he plays. Wouldn't write him off yet. Burroughs adds depth. Schenn of course punched well above his pay scale. Going to have to endure some patchwork until we draft someone, or a guy like Rathbone can come in and also make the show and in a good way. D is our problem without a doubt. Nice thingis - we have a glut of wingers /forwards ... some of that cap is going to be swapped out for our D. And as a whole, it's probably going to be overpaid for awhile yet for what it gives in return. One thing they did do at least, was bring in some better defensive forwards...that should help our PK anyways. Bruce doesn't want this team to play in its own zone. And don't blame him!
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