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IBatch

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Everything posted by IBatch

  1. I just go mostly by the eye test. Stevie Y was so good right until he was done. Sakic had a pretty crap team (at the end) but kept going. Once Crosby can do that (Ovi too) then I will start pushing them past the next. As far as trophies go. They for sure are not all the same. Pronger is widely considered as the biggest snub in history and totally agree, Brad Richards was okay. Patrick Roy's Conn Smythes are right up there with Gretzky's. Erik Karlsson was even considered as a 3 round team.. also rightly so. Crosby doesn't have many first and second team all-stars. That's something that should be considered. I'd have a really hard time picking Crosby before Yzerman or Sakic. Making a team. I think he's right there with them though. Same as Dionne. And especially hate to say this but will anyways. Messier. Edit: Just so we aren't arguing about this, because I agree with pretty much everything you post, this is if Crosby doesn't play another game. And fully expect him to surpass both Sakic and Yzerman. And Dionne, the Brad Park of centers.
  2. Umm. Hands down is a bit much. Hasek had the best stretch of goaltending i've ever seen and I saw Broduer, Belfour, Roy ... and Hasek. Roy was better than all of them when it mattered, and pretty darn good when it didn't matter too. Can't look at just stats. It's not hands down at all. Roy had to win game six, and game seven and did it just before retirement against peak prime Broduer. Only player any position to win 3 Conn Smythes. And guess what - just like Haseks, Belfours, Broduer, his save percentage went up and up ... why is that? Even recently added (and rightly so) Mike Vernon, playing for a pretty mediocre Florida team before retirement - had a .920ish Sp). Put those goalies against different shooters and a different system and see how it goes. Plante and Sawchuk for sure deserve props so kudos. Martin Broduer was great. His best season IMO was late in his career when his team wasn't so good, and he put it on his back and went to the final. Roy did that in 1993 like nobody i've seen before or since.
  3. Russia would possibly supplant the US even now, if the KHL didn't exist. That said it's pretty impressive that a place like ours, is the super power. It's possible the US will surpass us. And the source or villain in the story will be traced to Gretzky. (Miracle on ice helped for sure too...1996 anyone - even with the Brett Hull factor...) But I seriously doubt, that Canadian style hockey, will ever not win cups. Eventually maybe ... when they decide to make what is regular season whistle rules, into the playoffs. That's when Canada becomes a footnote. Like the Habs have been the last 30 or so years.
  4. Crosby didn't have anyone truly protecting him, but also didn't play in the same era. Sakic scored 100 plus after the lockout, without Forsberg and the best team around him, at age 37. Let's see what Crosby can do to finish is my main point. If it's just hardware then he's got a long long way to go to even approach to top 15.... first and second string all-stars for sure matter too. Sakic stuck his hand in a wood chipper, otherwise he'd probably have played a couple more seasons on a really bad COL team, and passed a lot of guys. To me Yzerman and Sakic are very close to on par, and Dionne is actually too. If Crosby has already played his last game, then I wouldn't put him ahead of either guys, Dionne maybe yes, but that's more of just wrong team wrong time more than anything. Sakic was also part of the 2002 game winning team - wasn't he the MVP (won't check but think he might have been?). I also think both Yzerman and Sakic had a higher bar or level of competition when they played than Crosby did, by quite a lot really. Who's the next best center? Toews? Backstrom. H. Sedin? Kopitar? Bergeron maybe, and for sure Joe Thornton passed the torch. The Sedins couldn't manage much and were even considering retirement (going back to Sweden) early on before the lockout. Crosby and Ovi arrived at the perfect time. To me Crosby will pass both guys, but has to pass them first. Sakic was the Nords/AVs number one guy, Forsberg got a lot of credit and rightly so, but it wasn't Sundin (early)or Forsberg leading them. Sakic is one of the best leaders the NHL has ever had. Edit: Yzerman on one knee, was too much for us in 2002. Dead puck era and he gave up a lot of points to be that guy (Scott Bowman). Scott Stevens also did the same (with Lemaire) . It's a good debate anyways. The game was so much more physical back then. Anyone who started their career post lockout benefited. The same way guys who started in the early 90's in their early or mid 30's did (after the lockout put up better numbers or were able to bring it until they retired which isn't the norm) . I wouldn't have Crosby ahead of Jagr for example, not for awhile anyways, but he's got the chance to pass some guys I'd never have thought he would. Wasn't super impressed with either Crosby or McDavid as juniors (Worlds)- was expecting dominance. Wonder if Bedard will come as advertised. Edit: Rob Francis also gets overlooked. Crosby or "Sid the Kid" was a generational talent. Yzerman and Crosby are pretty good comps really.
  5. This is why the THN list/ranking circa 1999, was so important. Old timers were around not just for Richard, but Eddie Shore, Hainsworth, Morenz, Cleghorn etc. And if they felt Shore was better than anyone not named Orr or Harvey, maybe we should listen to them and appreciate that. Borque's career was almost done then...Potvins long done.
  6. Shout out to Smithers Joe. Just so the rest of you know, Sawchuk also is considered the best all-time by THN. Check out his shut out ratio. It's nuts. And well cups are cups too. Hasek was pretty unreal, I don't think there was a goalie better than him for a 4-5 year period ever. Plante should also be on this list (with a vote...Old timers?) Dryden and Parent were also pretty amazing, Dryden's save percentage was .923 or something and Parents just PHI was pretty awesome too. Who's next? Roy. Then Broduer. Then Plante. Then ?? not sure maybe Hall, then Hasek (6), then Dryden (7) THN list, not mine. Edit: I picked Roy. Because he changed the game. And was just stupid good when it mattered. Good choices though.
  7. Huh. He wasn't Garth Snow. Actually just like every goalie of that era, his save percentage just kept going up and up and up. I've never seen a goalie do what Roy did his second Conn Smythe. And for Broduer fans, he beat him 3-1, game seven, and also had to win game six just to do that ... for his third and final Conn Smythe (more than any player) in 2001.
  8. Well like minds. Lidstrom "he's the greatest" always grated me the wrong way. Because I've seen greater. Sure he was great. For sure he was. But well, he wasn't that great. Borque to me was on another level. So was Coffey, and Potvin retired at 34. Can't blame him, 19 consecutive playoff series beat the crap out of several NYI's. Hasek get that, but the best goalie performances I've seen in the playoffs go Roy 93, Thomas 2011 and Quick shortly thereafter, close with both McLean in 94 and Ranford in 1990, Vernon in 1989. Hasek made easy work of it in 2002 at 37 or so. So get that too. He probably had the greatest period of any goaltender over 6-7 years than any other. Have Roy ahead of Broduer too. If Crosby scores 100 plus points at 37, then i'd move him up. As of right now, i have both Steve Yzerman and Sakic ahead of him, but i'm pretty sure he will end up retiring as a top five all-time center which is a remarkable accomplishment, and bump both guys. I'm also grateful for both Ovi and Crosby. That's what greatness looks like. Edit: As for Dionne. Watched him and Lafluer play shortly after retirement with a bunch of blue chip stars, some who'd just retired. Dionne was a man possessed and made them all look like school girls. Lafluer lit some bottle rockets and skated real fast, but Dionne looked like he'd still be able to play in the NHL. This was in the late 90's. Dionne said "i'd have scored 1000 goals if MTL drafted me instead", I actually believe that.
  9. Yep. I wouldn't have a big boner against Lidstrom, if it wasn't for the simple fact he couldn't do better then the guys in the 90's, a lot of which had been playing for a very very long time, including Borque, Coffey and Chelios. I absolutely he was great. But he wasn't Borque level great. And he certainly wasn't Potvin level great either. Which then starts to add guys like Brad Park and Larry Robinson. To me, he was just lucky more than anything, to play on great teams and for sure he added to that greatness. He wasn't a perfect defenseman. Didn't crush guys. And wasn't even close to guys like Potvin, Orr, Coffey, Al Mac and others on the offensive side of things either. I'm glad the younger generations got to see him play. I only have a boner against him because of the folks that get swatted aside. And when he retired, some people said he was the best ever. Of course he was to their eyes, because that's all they ever saw. Older people...well .. I sure don't know anyone my age or older that would rank him top five. Let alone first. Just me. Don't take my word for it either. Ask some people who watched Orr play, Borque and Coffey, Larry Robinson and Potvin and then ask where Lidstrom ranks.
  10. Zamuner over Corson was a big head scratcher. Brad Richards was 3rd in scoring for Canadian centers at the time of the Olympics, and like usual, the previous playoffs was clutch (tied a record for assists in one period or something, against the mighty Sharks). Heck our own Owner was so bonkers over acquiring him it cost Nonis his job. 2009-2010 7th in the league for points, 91, playing with LE lol, Brad Richards was more or less at the peak of his powers, and had proved he could do it with two teams. Instead Mike Richards and Morrow made the team ... of course it wouldn't matter, but for sure it was a snub to other guys. Have nothing against Morrow, was a solid puck hound, and it worked. Don't see St. Louis on the roster either, even though he was having a typical season, 6th in scoring, 94 points. Lecavalier, 70 points but good for 10th in scoring for Canadians that year...for sure there was some question marks. St. Louis was a big snub. At least they fixed that, at age 38 in Sochi.
  11. Sure would be. I remember Morrow getting a spot over a bunch of stars. Brendan Morrow. You can't build a team without building the lines as well. Will say, that this is probably the first time in Canada's history, that you can't build two teams and the "B" team wouldn't wax the best of the rest. Times are changing. As in decade to decade.
  12. That's no cups versus a lot of cups. Don't think so. And QHs, know he's our guy, was recently voted behind Seider for 23 and unders as in who is going to be the best D of those group of guys, it's not just about PP points and moving the puck ahead. Jack Hughes. Well sure he's good too. But he's not McDavid or McKinnon or Crosby. Mathews, he's yet to do anything in the post season. He's the worst superstar in his generation for doing absolutely nothing when it counts. Mathews is the Phil Housley of his generation without the excuse of a tiny body. Edit: I'm completely biased though. Screw the US. And their hockey program. And well I like Miller, Brock and QHs, when it comes to this stuff, they can all go suck eggs.
  13. Stone on the 4th line says enough. Cups are cups. Thanks Ovi for one of the best sound bites ever. Way before he won one. Maybe do Russia instead, i'm still not over 1996.
  14. I wouldn't do Canadian women's hockey like that. Unless you're talking recently. But yes, Canada IS the country to beat. I grew up the US wasn't even on the radar. It was all about Canada vs the Soviets/Russia. US even in 1996 needed Brett Hull, but will give it to them (and Suter, that team was full of a-holes, but it's not like we couldn't play that style all along either). Until we actually get surpassed, which yes, it's going to happen just too many US citizens, it's still us against the world. Men's or Women's hockey. Rarely, as in never so far including Hull in 96, has the US iced a better team. So wouldn't call that clutch for Men's hockey anyways. Women's hockey you can't even do that, no real league. So who the heck knows.
  15. Like usual, Canada has a plethora of centers. Our goalies ... and D. Not keeping up have to agree. That said, until things change, Canada will always have the IT factor. 18 Canadians 2 US players on the last championship team, give Vegas full credit. They knew right from the start where they wanted to go and did it. We experienced that in the bubble. And it wasn't quite there yet. To me it's Crosby until it isn't. He's the guy. And Stone until his body can't do it anymore too. Everyone wants to beat Canada. And i've been mad at them since 1996. So blah. Have they won a gold medal? Well they had their miracle.
  16. Don't worry, they also, for the opposite of that Boblaw had Mathews.
  17. Gaunce? Well that's doing JV a little dirty. 153 games...11 goals and 24 points. Allen. Was a total bust for Vancouver. When he played with us he was a big, big bust. In Florida he filled a role. That he couldn't and didn't ever do in Vancouver. Jason Strudwick is considered one of the worst D's to ever play for us, and he did as much or more. Florida ... well they had nobody back then. Ben Hutton got a job too for Vancouver, because back then we sucked. So did Adrian Plavsic. Doesn't mean he was good. To me anyways, Allen was a blown pick. Especially given how they promoted him, was expecting a lot more. Edit: My eyes suck spraying stuff. You're right, OJ was a terrible pick. It's the most upset, i've ever been, with whom we picked. Even more than Allen who was >>>> then OJ. In the end, Allen to me wasn't a lot different the Stajonov, got us something back that was incredible. Burke was a good GM. Nonis was good too. MG ive got mixed feelings. Wish Quin was managing that team.
  18. They are playing a methodical game. Striking when they can, but otherwise going to create an environment where tough hard work gets you to the playoffs, and increasing areas of need (PK and size on the D) while they work to get there. Zero complaints so far. Signing EP this summer would be huge though.
  19. We get a lot weaker. And we won't likely spend the cap better anyways. If we are going to compete, we have to start soon. This year will determine that to a degree, it all comes down to EP's next deal. They don't want a rebuild.
  20. When's the last time, a Canuck 3rd liner scored 45-55 points? Someone who just plays on the third line? My bet it was Dixon Ward, 52 points in 1992-93, by far our best offensive season. If a 3rd liner is doing that today , he's likely elite. Give him more minutes and some PP time for sure!
  21. Lidstrom is overrated based on recentcy bias. Even good writers for THN, have ranked him where he shouldn't (a junior writer, ranked him ahead of Orr, Harvey, Borque and Potvin), and they felt the need to use that in a disclaimer in their last "top 100" list, because it shot him up the list, bumping Borque, Shore and Potvin. Didn't bump Harvey though. Top five i'm not sure i'd have him ahead of Al Mac or Robinson. Borque was the Gordie Howe of defense. 13 first and six second all-star's against some great competition. He also had longevity, and did it from the very first season, to his last (where he was a finalist). Even on some very bad Bruins teams, which made him ask for a trade to a contender ... never finished lower than 7th in Norris voting, and usually a finalist. Problem I have with Lidstrom, was even on great teams, he couldn't win a Norris until those players aged out. And Konsantinov was their best D before his accident - Ken Holland: "I think he had a chance to be regarded as one of the best defenseman in the NHL for a long time. His status in the NHL at the time, was beyond Nick Lidstrom's" In the 2000's, second highest scoring D was Rafalski. Aside from Niedermayer and an aging gimped up Pronger, Lidstrom really didn't have much competition. Phaneuf? His last Norris, was a joke. To me it seemed it was all about getting him to Harvey by that point. Yes he was good, but he wasn't as good as Chelios was in the early mid 90's, or Leetch, or Al Mac, Blake, ... Kevin Stevens (Lidstrom yes him, but the point is other guys were physically superior, also put up points, and could defend). I'd have a hard time picking between the two of them even if was building an all-time team. Hitting is also part of the game and makes an impact. Coffey had more Gordie Howe hat tricks than Howe, and could hit plus had a mean streak. Was like having an extra star forward on any team he played. Edit: Without considering Shore or Harvey. 1. Orr Tier 1 Tier 2 2. Borque 3. Potvin 4. Coffey 5-7 Al Mac, Lidstrom, Robinson Personally feel, that's where he belongs. And pretty sure Harvey and Shore are tier two. Lidstrom played on the highest scoring team in the league in the 90's, or at least the best regular season one. Right away. Then, like Zubov and a whole bunch of guys in their 30's and some long long in the tooth, benefited from the lockout. Zubov went from 50-50ish points, to 71 at 37 post lockout. Sakic scored over 100 at 37 too, Alfie over 100 at 34...Selanne and Sundin got extra years in. Lidstrom also had to play through the dead puck era, BUT did it with the benefit with loaded teams given the wallet size. 75 or so million payroll in 2002, more then half what the cap started at. Yet it was AL Mac and Pronger getting the hardware for St. Louis back then..
  22. It's happening a lot less than it used to be. Coming out of the lockout, deals still made sense. You had to earn your UFA deal, even the very young players mostly did. Now, RFA deals are close to what UFAs get. Money and term wise depending on what sort of potential you have anyways, and GMs roll the dice on second contracts that don't always work out and are by comparison, too much. Blue chip UFA guys get paid. Where's the extra money coming in from teams? Veteran players who deserve more, and are usually better options than the AHL/ELC's that are used to balance the books. Teams that can't find their Perry, Thornton, Spezza, Schenn etc (good for Schenn getting another deal with term, he earned it for sure!), which is the vast majority, use AHLers somewhere in the lineup to balance things. It's pretty pathetic, that we were a cap team, and keep missing the playoffs. A big part of that, is overpaying for contracts. EP. Well he's sure earned a big pay day. But it doesn't need to be more than 12% of the cap. He was paid during his bridge, to average 74 points or so...it's not like his bridge wasn't fair. QHs, it's not like he's a 10 million dollar player either. Not yet.
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