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Everything posted by IBatch
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Well this is how i look at it. The team took a risk signing the Kuzmo. And it's low risk, high reward. And unlike some, i'm not at all worried about him. Isn't he a UFA after anyways? Pretty sure he is. So if he's Panarin 2.0 we can enjoy his services and probably a cup while we are at it. If he isn't bye bye thanks for knowing you, no big deal either way. Somewhere in the middle well i suppose then it gets tougher but at least we have assets we can trade. For now. I do share a bit of have a feeling that this team is cursed, watching it forever it seems. But still have hope. Also not sure why anyone would automatically slot him in the top six either (Kuzmo, anyone remember Linden Vey? Where is is on his teams depth charts lol).... He's going to have to earn that and it won't be easy. Same with Podz. Feel he was brought in for Podz more then anything, there is a guy the club does have a lot of control over for awhile anyways. We aren't "damned" if players play well above their cap, we are blessed. And it's the only thing that's going to get us a cup. So let's hope he's awesome. Have been beating this drum for years now, unless we get really really lucky (and luck and time are factors, we didn't win when we shouldn't have in 82 and 94, and we didn't win when we should have in 2011)... Maybe next time? Well MTL waited since 93... maybe next time but i have zero illusions that this team won't have to be awfully lucky to get to the final either. Not with COL blocking us. Even without them. But there is always hope and luck. Until tax stuff gets dealt with, it's going to awfully hard, for any Canadian team to win a cup in the cap era, which is here to stay. It allowed expansion to occur, even though the product has been watered down heavily .,, fans keep coming to pay the prices of admission ... the 2000's were absolutely awful. And right now it's extra tough for Van and OTT. OTT or TO? TO is almost always going to get the Ontario boys, MTL is going to get the Quebec ones.... WNP well they won't ever win a cup without a gigantic amount of luck. Canucks and the Alberta teams id say on par. Maybe CAL/VAN/EDM really in that order of advantage ... less tax only goes so far. But is a key metric. Have to understand the correct target. Sure we are "cursed" but now it's institutional. So just enjoy the ride. Every single year more US players are drafted and less Canadian ones....and why would they want to play in a foreign country, where taxes are high etc etc. Expansion and the cap made it very tough on us and our brothers across the country. It is what it is. At least the talent level is finally getting close to what it was during the 80's and 90's.
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Why do you think Gillis the great...had such a great team? Because of the heavy lifting Burke and Nonis did! Kudos to him for at least realizing that, and making sure they were locked in until their mid 30's or in Luongo's case until his early 40's. At least JB built the team we now have. Only OEL can't be traded. I'm sure JR and Allvin appreciate that a lot.
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As for the OP. Believe Zibenajad is for sure his best comp. And will get a deal like him, but with a little added for the cap going up in two seasons. And that the deal will go the same length, which is six years (as in age it's done). 8-9.5 is his range. One more season like last years, he's going to get the higher range, if he regresses to a PPG, the low range. He will walk if he's not the highest paid player after scoring more then anyone since he showed up. Edit: Not sure if it's postering, or he's actually saying the truth, JR has a number in mind that works for the club, and Millers camp of course is higher. Do think that if we start the season with Miller, it's going to be awfully hard to trade him at the deadline if we are in a good position, which is very likely. If we aren't, easy he's gone. JB for sure made it tough on these guys! But not really in a bad way either. Glad we have a new management crew. And that they are taking their time as well. Hate it when a new GM comes in, and does silly things off the hop like offer Sundin a ridiculous two year, 20 million dollar contract. Wonder what Nonis would have done with all that cap gone. He had to wait, and did, Burke's deals ... then was canned for not going after the late great Brad Richards. Didn't take him long to get another job either.
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Like Spook above, i pretty much feel the same way about Bo. And also think your reading a bit too much into "that stoked me" comment ... it was just that, a response to a question. His even keeled stuff probably does have some influence from the Sedins, but also it's just who he is. That sort of leadership is important too, especially in the playoffs. Won't see him trashing the Olympic rooms like MT's and Brady's Dad and a few of his teammates did in Nagono. It was a crushing defeat for Canada too, and didn't even try in after losing a shot at the gold medal, but Gretzky made his team stay, appreciate the experience, and participate in the village after. I could see Bo doing that too. The right thing isn't always passion, and just because it's not shown, doesn't mean it's not there either. And at least watching him post game isn't Naslund deadpan level. He's got a big motor...and sometimes you'd like to see him use it more. Sure did light it up down the stretch though didn't he? Not sure but think might have scored more goals then EP did who was also on fire. Never ever hear the guy complain, despite being saddled with Pearson and LE for years, and look how that turned Pearson's career around. Actually feel he's got untapped offense. And don't mind his leadership at all. Or this groups for that matter. It's pretty rich that way, with Miller and OEL, Myers etc. Like you, i'd love a Smyl Captain. Or a Linden. That said Horvat is still carving out his legacy, and did something special in the bubble. 10 goals ... was actually on pace to challenge Bure. One more series and for sure would have passed Linden too (12 in 94).... Nothing wrong with Bo, agree it would be nice to see him he less passive. It's not like Miller is dropping the gloves either...but man, sure glad the club released footage of him pumping up the lads in the bubble. We are lucky we have both of them. And hope we can shoehorn them both in. Could see a nice tidy run of playoffs in our future if they can manage that. Edit: If Miller and Bo and EP are all in the team next season, it could be the best group of centers this teams ever iced. Linden, Ronning, Nedved for one season of course is the best so far ... but Linden mostly played on the wing in 93. Pretty sure Bruce will try loading up one line, as well as trying rolling 3 lines. Sure nice to have those sort of options.
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To me this club will be in a bigger pickle if they don't trade him before the season starts, then if they wait until the TDL unless the wheels complete fall off. Then sure bye bye Miller. Not going to happen though. So we should all be fully prepared. And not be so nit picky about the return if that's the way the club goes either (sells him). Because it's a lot less then so many CDCers seem to have in their minds. OF COURSE those trades would have already occurred! Schnieder, 1st Kakko lol. Like "woke" white folks who strut around and live in their comfy houses and have keys that start their cars from inside the house - not really at all, awake. It's simply not happening. Ok well wake up and bad joke, kind of. But not really. Sure i just offended someone. But - i don't - care if i did because those people don't get history lessons. Wake up! Instead, why can't we just enjoy one more season of JT Miller and wish him luck?. Does anyone think Nathan McKinnon, is going to "honour his word" and would "do it again" ... that is his last deal. While both Rantenen and Makar are making total bank lol. Of course he's not. He's already looking at boats and private planes. Don't be naive. Only way Miller is getting less then 8, is if he gets injured or Bruce puts him on third line with Dickie and Hogs. And even then, it's going to match EPs deal lol. He's 30 so what. Go check out the Sedins deals and what they looked like. the ones they signed at 33 and the ones they signed before and the cap percentages. Your all dreaming. And they wanted to play together. How many times i've listened to Toews B!tch about that team going into a rebuild ... when it was his and Kanes contract that did them in lol. Like do these guys have a grade four education or something? Simple math. Just saying, Miller is going to go for the most he can possibly get - like Toews and Kane, the Sedins, everyone does. And you can bet, if the Sedins were scoring 99 points each, their contracts would be a lot higher then they were (their ones that equal 8.6ish today, before they broke out). JT just did what they did plus plus. So what does that mean for him? A brinks truck.
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No sh!t. Not even a raise. Look what Kevin Hayes got...and all Horvat got to play with is ... well until and even last year, Pearson, Bear, LE and a tiny bit of Brock. So that's a gigantic FU. He's going to get at least 6.5-7 x 7 unless he falls off a cliff. Personally feel HE deserves a chance with EP ... but never get one does he? He's not Linden, or Smyl, but so far at least, he's got this franchise stamped on his ass the same way as those two did. He's going to get a raise. And term.
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He's not signing for less then 8. The only place he'd consider that is US teams with no state tax. He will have lost 2.5 plus since being traded here if he finishes the season in Vancouver. Doubt he leaves that much money on the table.
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If he signs before the season starts, probably 8.5 x 7. If he has a better season then last year? Hart trophy votes and all bets are off. Hope Bruce rolls 3 lines. IF he loads one up, both EP and JT are going to have to get a bigger garage for the size of the Brinks trucks backing up soon.
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Great post. I don't think your alone but get the frustrations around JT. Wouldn't worry about it much...dog days of summer, and every decent team in the league's fans are salivating over the idea of adding him to their roster. In a way he's been our McKinnon, as in a player that far exceeds the cap hit. If we didn't have a cap, we wouldn't see one trade thread. I love Miller. He's exactly the type of player i like having on our team. Watching him live skate through an entire OTT lineup and score was just pure enjoyment. As of right now we have an envious forward group. It's deep and our center depth is top five in the league. Demko is also a horse and one of at most, a dozen number one goalies in the league. COL doesn't have that. Of course our D is maybe 12-18th ... hard to say really. PIT win back to back cups with a couple stars, good support players and a middling and that's being generous, defense. Can't have it all in this league ... unless your TB. COL? Well powerhouse. But still they don't have a Demko do they? I see next season as the proof of where we are as well. As a team. All the current core is at an age now. Miller absolutely is a huge part of the core. Best deal JB made as far as simply winning a trade one for one. I'm fine if he re-signs, but also get, losing him for nothing is going to sting a lot. Believe that's where a lot of this Miller stuff comes from. I'm ok if we keep him, if we trade him AND if all that happens, is a nice gift of hopefully a few playoff rounds occurs and after that he heads off. IF he re-signs, and it's a 6-8 year deal, Miller likely ends up in the ROH at the very least. Four years ... lots of guys over the years played for us 4-6ish years and are still talked about. Courtnall. Ronning. Adams. Hope he's going to be talked about in 30 years with the same reverence and some.
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He's also "that's a small body gentleman, a really small body" (got to love Burke!)... and we already have one of those percolating in the AHL kicking butt who's also a lefty. Personally think, why not try one of these guys on their off side? A lot of teams do that. A lot of players do it too (QHs has actually talked about how certain things he does better on the right side) ... Schmidt, Benn... this obsession that you simply have to be a RHD to play the right side is a bit onerous. If 50% more D's currently in the NHL, are natural LHDs it says something right there. Doesn't Dermott play both sides too? It's also why id hope for Byram. Although with Manson signed i think that's now a fairy tale. Those two played top four minutes during their cup run ... Girard dropped to the third pairing...ugh. Not ... fair that team. But i can say, there is a team out there that could beat them with some hot goalie and puck luck. Bet they've got 5-1 odds to repeat though ... What did they lose, four games? Haven't seen a team like that in a very very long time.
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Guess we have Thornton and Burns still living the beard dream lol. Wonder what is making them do it ... no cups?
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My favourite part of this is pointing out that we need to keep our picks, and build for the future sustainably. Miller. Actually think that this team could be a bubble team without him in the lineup. Really depends if EP is ready or not. And that's without any return but futures. One thing that i'm not so optimistic about, is what both Demko and QHs do with their next contracts. Both might want out. And need to be traded. In that case, our window shrinks with the current core to basically right now and the next four seasons. Hard to say for sure. But at least we should get a nice haul. Teams need to constantly improve, and it takes time. The best chance this current group has, is one heck of a lopsided trade (or two). At least the way the league is designed and the way the sport is played, most teams have a lot of reason to hope if and when they do make the show. Feel that's Vancouver's best shot no matter what. Playoff reps. And to do that, will need great drafting, and smart asset management on the way. Hope that JR and Allvin are true to their word, and actually trade players who won't re-sign within a cap structure that works for the team. We are absolutely at a disadvantage when it comes to this and that's not going to change anytime soon. Maybe when it gets to 50 years without a cup in Canada, the league and NHLPA will wise up. But not holding my breath either. Maki from TO ... well what do you think of that deal? Not exactly a great signing other then filling a need. Twice as much as Dickie lol. To me that deal shows they are going for it this year. As in going for the playoffs. Hope at least, is always there. Game of inches. Don't expect a TB or COL team ... 40% and 36.4% vs lots of rain and 53.07%...just not going to be an easy thing to overcome. Luck ... luck luck. Wish Pat Quin was still alive and running the show right now. We need a Lumme for a second, a Bure pick, Naslund trade, and even more so - a Garth Butcher like deal to wrap this up. We can't afford to do the TO model. Plus you need to fluke out and draft a Mathews...we won't get the cheap spare parts that play well above their cap hits to balance it out anyways. We need a well balanced team like St. louis with no cap hits that screw us. Lots of value found in the 4-5 range (right now - that will go up). Did we find it? Guess we will find out this season. At least Vegas sh!t the bed and lost their depth. And at least CAL is a bit of a mess. EDM and VAN ... I'm cautiously optimistic that our core improves enough to give us a chance during EPs bridge, QHs and Demko's next two seasons. After that? No idea. But it's going to take a lot of work to have a long window with them on board.
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Lol...I still have a sticker book from 1981-1982, and 82-83 ... Would sure be funny to compare pictures with QHs...Guy's an ape! Snepsts stache for sure had that cool biker look. Babych probably can flex and grow his. Like Tom Selleck, Burt Reynolds and Sam Elliot, some folks just have that extra extra lol. Babych mustache game was fearsome. Tough to beat really by anyone ... Gillies maybe? Ok Lanny ...
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This core isn't going to win a cup and never had a chance at it either. Like an expansion team under the old rules - with the exception no first overalls, second overalls, and third overalls etc. Our best chance, and this is the ideal scene, was always going to be parts of this core (think EP/QHs and younger), as aging vets in their early 30's late 20's ... playing with hopefully some stars that right now are 10-13 years old. If you look at 1982, 1994, 2011. So 12 years in a 20-23 ish league team ... then up to 28 or so 17 years (add 40% time)...now 32. Basically 19-20 years. So think 2027-2032 as our next "window". Right now we've got a decent shot. This year. Like the end of the WCE era without the fun lol.
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It was Gillis that signed their last deals (Sedins)...not JB (and this owner blaming is silly, nobody has a clue what they meddle with...every fanbase says the same stuff though, it's the owners fault not their fave GM, President or whomever!) And like it or not JB was heavily involved with the picking process of our first couple picks each draft. That much is obvious just from the mic'ed up stuff. Usually a GM just adds influence on who they pick for their first each draft. So can't just say OJ and JV ... JV was a local boy ... that did seem like a PR move. Gillis traded one first ... and did great with Horvat. Coho was ok, the rest blah. Still the worst segment of picks this club has seen - 2004 was the last draft we did any damage at the table until Horbat and the JB era ...three bad years of Nonis after that (RIP Bourdon) five bad drafts from MG in a row ... those 8 years killed our youth ... Google worst drafts in Canucks history ... Nonis and MG get all the top five! Funny how hindsight works. Once context is added ... at least some understanding comes in. Have been saying for years now, Vancouver is going to be stuck overpaying for their talent, and that's not going to change. At least until the league and NHLPA wise up and start basing their deals on net pay (which you can bet the players and agents bargain for every single time), not AVV. Already read some stuff about JR basically continuing JB work (overpaying).... Only time players play for cheaper, is if they are claused up and if they are playing for the chance at a cup. Those two factors help. MG, didn't draft the core (some still don't get that lol...even Hansen - great support player ... was fully claused), or, that at the time of his contracts, we were the 7-9th LEAST taxed team in the league. Now ... we are right at the bottom with MTL, TO, and OTT. 53.07 vs 47-48% back then ... and the US is going the other way, lowering taxes ... and adding teams (2 now) with no state taxes 36.4%. Not saying this is why JB sucked so bad. But it does add a lot of context to why he traded his second rounders at the start for Vey and Bear, we had zero in the system or on the team tweeners either ...Harry Neel above has a graph of how many over a 2100 or so sample size (not big enough but it's still close to the 20 year average) ... both guys actually surpassed the average second rounder lol. Again context. Allvin and JR are discovering the cost to sign guys. This TO Maki guy ... funny how TO fans aren't at all sad they dodged that deal. Garland on the other hand, ARI fans were livid they lost him. JB wasn't all bad - and MG wasn't all bad either. There is good that both did, and bad that both did. You can't trade players with full NTC/NMC! Not without ruining your chance of ever going to the UFA store again anyways. And even then, ridiculous to expect that - still some fans thinking is we could have lol. That's a bit naive. My unpopular opinion for this thread right now is this, and it's the exact same one I had when JB took over: This teams best chance, at getting back to the top. is going to be parts of two cores ... and that's best chance not an automatic. We were always going to have to pay the piper, after 14 years of winning more games then any other team but Detroit and SJ. SJ re-tool worked. Now they are going to be paying which they've started to do now that Wilson is on pause. Detroit just missed six years in a row, and have already started on their second core repair job (Hollands attempt failed). Started at the same time as us lol. This is the era we live in. Until the league adds play-ins etc, teams, especially top teams on their way out, are going to have a very long dreary painful time. CAR missed 9 in a row. We missed 4. Buffalo is at 10 or is it 11? EDM 2 in 20 decades pretty much lol. TO hasn't won a round since early 2000's with Sundin lol. 32 teams. And TO despite their taxes, gets to draw from all those kids/players/vets who want to play for them. Same with MTL. People wonder why we use Sweden..well they are used to the taxes there (that's a joke they still will get overpaid to play here until you look at their net pay...then it looks very fair or reasonable) ...and it's the only real competitive advantage we have. BC doesn't produce many hockey players. And so far at least, the best ones haven't played for us either. Sakic, Yzerman, Kariya didn't/wouldn't. And times have changed. These guys don't want to play in CAN as much these days ... that could change though. In fact it would change IF they base deals on net pay, and adjust when they get traded. Canada is a safer place to live at least. As for drafting Canadians. 100% all for it! And agree 100%, they have something wired into them that other countries don't seem to have. US is very close too... but ... just wait four years to see what Demko does ... and five years for what QHs does. Folks that want us to trade Miller just to have a better team in 2-3 years? Well sure ... but keep in mind what is happening right now in CAL, and what happened and is still happening in WNP 3-4 years ago. Drafting has never been as important as it is right now. I'd love it if we started drafting more players from the WHL, and the CHL.
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No what i mean is we aren't immune as VAN if CAL isn't ...WNP sure maybe that makes some sense (as a team players don't want to stay for) ... CAL 6% lower taxes then us ... so not as much. Has zero to do with Dobson. It has everything to do with US players, wanting to leave. Edit. It's now a trend. One i don't see changing. Taxes, fishbowl - more US players less CAN players and now both wanting to play in the worlds playground. People that want us to wait for our "window" ... Miller, Demko, QHs. 1, 4, 5 years ... we will see.
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Sure that CAL fans thought MT was safe ... WNP fans, Trouba, Schieffle, PLD etc etc. We should be preparing ourselves for the unexpected. We aren't immune if CAL isn't.
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Civic better go brush off his skates and become a ref then. Your always going to need two linesman to break up fights ... he's the tree that could make Chara look rather ordinary. But the idea of a ref with a good earpiece isn't a bad one. TO war room could beep in his ear if they see something that needs actual checking. To me it's never going to be perfect - you win some, you lose some, and it evens out. I'm all for one ref, if that means use an ear piece then so be it. The moment linesman are not longer needed, is the day i stop watching the game.
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Bad officiating, for me at least, means putting the best of the best out there. One less ref and assign a linesman the power to call a major. Would he an improvement. One less guy on the ice too. COL winning with too many guys on the ice lol... sure that stung.
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Without it becoming full baseball boring ... etc ... it could goofy pretty fast. Even now with some plays that were simply amazing getting disallowed "because the skate, with .01 second replay angle - was off-side", the "out-come" a lot of games and even series have been impacted. It's never going to be perfect. Wonder how many glorious goals from the past would have been disallowed because a linesman's eyes simply can't do what 20 different camera angles can? As an aside how many breakaways per game would Bure, Selanne, Federov etc etc have if you didn't have to skate or make that extra pass in the neutral zone? THAT is the best rule change i've seen ever. Man those 80's Oilers stats would look even more ridiculous, same every player before as well. Old we stars careers got a massive boost, and guys that were skilled but struggled in the dead puck era - blossomed. A lot i'm sure ... Sometimes you win, and sometimes, Otto kicks it in. It really depends which side of it your on with how you feel. Kind like the shoot-out. You get some buzz when you win it, but then well, it's a oily feeling all the same ...the game should really just be a tie. Nothing wrong with that. All attempts to change 3rd periods, just rolled into the same darn idea, "make it to OT boys and we've got that point even if we lose the game!" is way more ridiculous, then a training drill (3 x 3...I mean how often does that EVER happen during a game?) and way way way more ridiculous then adopting a European dealio, that simply is a skills competition. Also puts undue stress on your goalie. They for sure get boned doing this physically and stats wise. Anyways - im all for making changes that improve the game. Like removing the redline. Probably the most significant change i've seen in my lifetime. As far as refs go, not an easy job - same with the linesman. And as far as the flow of the game, i get more frustrated with that extra ref getting in the way, then i'm a missed call. They still happen anyways.
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Was it obvious because his teeth gapped in the middle (can't see that Arnie gap - that at least solves some flossing issues), or maybe did you get to see his tiny balls in the shower? This is a strange one. Just because he used a parachute when skating, doesn't mean he's Drago. And going back to Howe/Hull ... these guys both looked like absolutely rippped, compared to any modern day NHL with "all their advantages" ... This summers Tampa Bay soccer beach game, most guys i worked with on construction crews in their 20-30's had way better builds. Wonder why. 50-60 hours of labour a week isn't something a gym builds. Same with Howe and Hull.. and well what is a 35 hour work week anyways since we are at it.
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No worries. Your a great lad AJ. One day, keep this in your back pocket. And use it on someone else.
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I think that Babych had a better Mustache, then Snepsts!