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IBatch

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Everything posted by IBatch

  1. That trade and the Luongo trade - both times i thought "well we are going to win a cup now"... Luongo was otherworldly in Florida ... the amount of rubber he faced before coming here ....every week his talent was shown on plays of the week, making ridiculous saves after saves. And i liked Bertuzzi but loved that trade. With Mogilny all i could think about was we just added another Bure level player, in his prime, and we'd have to get final soon right?!! Wrong. But Mogilny and Bure were easily our most talented players ever...what they accomplished in a much tougher era (same one the Sedins really had to suffer through and didn't break out until the rules changed) was a treat to watch. Part of the Triple Gold club ... not many players can say that ... first Russian to defect which was a huge deal. Really must have ruffled some feathers...Mogilny > Kariya. Who's maybe on par with the Sedins and Alfie.
  2. Yep. When his alien ship finally crashed and was just a regular joe - he was producing more then the guys in the 2000's who were considered super or just regular boffo stars when they were in their primes. Why i get my hackles up over guys like Sundin and Lidstrom. Sure Sundin was good - but he was no Sakic, Forsberg or Yzerman ... who were even during their peaks not close to Gretzky way far away from his peak but still doing it. Lidstrom. Well sorry guys what the heck did he do in the 90's that was better then a bevy of guys - including an aging Coffey and Borque, not to mention his peers in Neidermayer. Blake, Al Mac, Leetch, even Chelios and some of those guys were older by a fair margin. Pronger and Neidermayer weren't Borque or Coffey either... and Chelios was unreal against us in 95 .... just don't buy any of this bogus stuff about athletes been so much better now. Can't wait for the Crosby/Ovi generation to get picked on about how they were so less served as athletes nutrition and physically. Hogwash.
  3. Yep. Except he did it for a decade. And then when he fell down to Earth from his spaceship, it was still not too shabby... just a regular normal star until his last season. When you have to either pick goals or assists doing your hockey pool analog style ... well. Youngins maybe think about that for a bit. It would be like hmmm should we take Ovi's goals or Henrik's assists in their prime - of course goals weighted higher for game winners, short handed etc ...and then times it by 1.25 Edit: As a curiosity, none of WG's 60 or so records are on the PP for goals or points. Guy wasn't Dave Andrechuk or Ovi that way (50% on the PP or close to it)... he did most of his damage 5 x 5 and his short handed stuff was pretty unreal too,
  4. Best part is - we've watched that era an know what is right and what is wrong. There are some misconceptions. 100%. Like Makar in that era even. How would he really do! Who the heck knows. Gretzky was also supposedly supposed to be murdered but made it. Tim Kerr ... made guys bleed when he fought or broke their face. The games different now. Taking out the offside changed it more then any rule i've ever seen. Aside from punishing the Oilers too. No 4 x 4 hockey reverted back to 5 x 5...because well 4 x 4 with them on the ice was like a 4 x 3. Only teams to create a rule change are the 50's Habs and the 80's Oilers. Hilarious that when that group was disbanded they went back to their original idea.
  5. For me it was the Russian coach, think it was 81' that paid Tonelli the ultimate compliment and called him the best player on the planet right now. Absolutely it also had to do about becoming the missing link as well in the New York Islanders dynasty. Get why Gainey got in...and love that the Selke is now a thing as result, anyone that inspires a trophy for them should be immortalized. Guy Carb lowered that bar to let some guys in, which i don't mind at all. And i agree. WHA should count. When the two leagues went head to head in the courts, the judge said they'd also have to play some games as part of the restitution (WHA won the case)... anyone who remembers or knows about that ... well guess the hockey was pretty darn close to par. And thankfully we got four franchises as a result. NHL lost so many great players to the WHA... and they couldn't stand that they kept getting all the good ones lol... because of their draft age. Gretzky was the final straw. Never has one player had such an impact on hockey and never will it happen again either. He merged the two leagues. And he made it vogue in the US later. Edit: Tonelli was one of the leagues best two way forwards the entire time he played. Nobody would argue Bergeron won't go in first ballot ... i'd be actually fine with debating that Tonelli was just as good. Edit: Gretzky was the Micheal Jordan of hockey. Even more so. Like Micheal Jordan on steroids. Would anyone question that Micheal Jordan in his prime would just be ho hum compared to the current McDavid of Basketball? Not a chance. Ridiculous. They'd be mocked an run out of town. It's like saying people only used to live to 40-50 back in the day. Sure once you average things out with pestilence and infant deaths. Just go look at the Roman Emperors and their average life span. Hope to live that long lol. Ceaser was in his prime still when he was murdered by his best bud and co conspirators. There is an element that thinks we are evolving. I don't agree, i've watched this sport for 40 years and don't see it. Edit: On more edit lol. SN, THN, ESPN, TSN ALL consider Wayne Gretzky as the most dominant sports figure all-time. Not Babe Ruth. Not Orr. Not Mario. Not Ali and not Tyson. The only guy that comes close is Rocky. And not Sly lol.
  6. Fleury for sure. I hate Tkachuk but have to admit he should be in. Roenick maybe too. Tonelli is the guy i'd put in first though. He's been waiting too long, and deserved to be in before Guy Carb... Then Fleury ... then it's pretty even. Propp and Nichols are both fine by me too. I have a soft spot for Kerr. Was like Lindros before there was a Lindros.
  7. No doubt. Another HHOF snub. And also our achilles heal. Guy was like Bure just shorter. But what a heart!
  8. Cool stuff so we can relate. Why no Coffey, Al Mac, Borque love then? Too me they are all a tier higher then Lidstrom. Coffey and Borque a considerable one higher.
  9. Vernon admitted he was only 5'7" years after retirement. That tiny. Both by back then standards and todays more so. Always listed around 5'10. I suspect QHs is also cheating. But that's ok. If your that darned good who gives a f!ck. Furh and Vernon had the best glove hands i've ever seen. Edit: King Richard too. I've read that those leather pads would add 20lbs of water weight over a game. Those guys were incredible athletes. Vernon deserves the HHOF. And that's out of respect for IMO our biggest rivalry. It wasn't CHI/Sedin era. It started in 89 as soon as the Oilers were no longer the best team (sure ok they won in 90 but then imploded) and CAL was the best in the West by default until around 95/96. There was more action in the average regular season game against CAL then there was during the CHI playoff series... seriously. I'd also put WNP ahead too.
  10. Harrison with the elbow lol...no penalty. Games changed. Fun video thanks for the walk down memory lane. Robinson is a class act no doubt. One of the best players ever.
  11. Tim Horton before him. Read the guy would literally crack your ribs in a bear hug. But wouldn't fight. Howe...his Dad was always worried he'd kill someone when he fought. One great story was Howe in the WHA after retirement. Everyone wanted a piece of him. What did he do? A liberal use of lumber and some time in the box. Cracked his stick over their heads when they came after him "to gain space". One game the other teams goon went after his son(s)....so he hit him over the head with his stick, then picked him up by the nostrils and threatened to beat the living crap out of him if him or anyone ever tried that again - and to let his teammates know and tell their friends. Slap shot stuff. Movie was inspired by the WHA and Howe.
  12. Man has the game changed. They don't call it the golden years for nothing 70's-94 ... hockey in all its glory. Skilled, tough and ultra violent. Fans would probably be shocked to see guys skating around without helmets, no adds on the boards, just beautiful pure white (still don't like that) ... owners protested helmets because that was how you could see your players! Hair. Freaky personalities... all that. It carried on for quite sometime ... McTavish the last guy to not wear a lid. Now faceshields ... Ohlund was drafted in 94 ... think the only played to wear those on our team was Bure and Mcyntire if memory serves me ... Ohlund and the Japan game .. Even then it carried on with the tough guy thing. Get player safety, but from a fans perspective hockey's best entertainment value went away with some of the changes. We won't ever see hockey players in the stands again. Or fighting down a hall-way. Or fans fighting in the stands like animals. It's still by far the best sport in the world though. And i'm glad the skill level is finally catching up to expansion.
  13. Despite the grainy footage ... and the slow tape - go watch some of his highlights as a Hab. That guy could dangle with the best of them and hit, score and do all the right things in his own zone. Not to even get into how he forever removed the PHI flu from the Habs locker room. Went right down their lineup starting with Shultz. Gillies did that for NYI as well.
  14. I'm glad you got to see him play. He was very good no doubt. I'm going to bet your 40 or younger. I don't know anyone that would give him the title my age or close to it. Wasn't even Detoits number one until Konstantinov was injured. This is one debate - that bugs me a lot. I'm glad you guys who feel this way got to see him - but he wasn't even considered a top D man in the league until a lot of older guys retired. The competition went by the way side. He was amazing yes - but i wouldn't have him ahead of Al Mac and id have to think awfully hard before Pronger as well. Of those guys only one was the same age. Coffey was second in Hart voting and won his last Norris his 14th season. When he was the same age as Lidstrom what was he doing (early 20's)...same as Potvin, same as Orr and Borque. A heck of a lot more. Chelios, Leetch, Al Mac, Blake even ... won trophies that he couldn't win. But i am happy you got to see him play.
  15. Potvin could have played at 18 and been just fine. Back then draft was 20. Having played 19 consecutive playoff series also shortened his career. When he retired, he led the league in all categories for a defenseman. His career was shortened a little because his body was just done. As a side note - when asked, "which player did you fear the most" to Gretzky ... and well he played against some scary guys ... really scary guys including Lindros and Scott Stevens who could kill you with a hit or a play... it was Potvin that gave him the cold sweats. Why? Either getting creamed in a play or losing the puck to him and having him go and score a goal.
  16. Mine too. Coffey is still the only player i've ever watched just glide and gain speed. Just an incredible skater. With all the tools of the best forwards in any era. Borque was more complete. And Orr was just on an entirely different level. Was too young to remember him play but sure heard a lot about him from my older pals. PK time ... just give the puck to Orr and let him skate around for two minutes until it's killed playing keep away. Edit: Going to both plug Lidstrom and also make it real. I've watched all of his career. And also watched the era before him. He was a good D-man. No doubt. But i'd have a hard time putting him in the top six. All i can say is i'm glad others got to see what greatness looks like. Neidermayer and Pronger ... to me Pronger had the highest peak. And Al Mac was better then all 3. But also a level down from Orr, Coffey, Potvin, Robinson. Gonchar and Rafalski...later Phanuef ... not exactly steep competition was it?
  17. Magic Man. For sure some incredible athletes. To me you just named 3 of the best defenseman all-time. Orr, Borque, Coffey, Robinson would all be in my personal top six all-time team. One off's are tough. Why i'm not sure Nichols deserve's the HHOF. It also goes to show just how amazing Gretzky was ... i've wrote about this before because it's in Gretzky's book. Bernie went and asked the owner if he should purchase a house after been the new Kurri and some! Was a great player before for the Kings over a PPG player ... getting a little older ..: the owner said sure - buy a house we don't have any plans to trade you....then he did and he was traded. Owners sucked back then lol.
  18. If EP plays 17 years with us, he's got a chance anyways. The Sedins weren't built for the pre-lockout game, but in the end it was very good for them as well. Suffering like that and pushing through it, gave them thicker skin. The game changed too. Guys like Ludwig and Hatcher in Dallas didn't take long to go away, but before that they were extremely important to have on any team with aspirations to win a cup. Lindros ... well he'd have an absolute heyday in todays game, as would Jagr and Mario my god would he be amazing. For the younger generations, i suggest you watch some highlights on all 3 of those guys. They played with guys on their backs, hooking and holding ... and still did it. Not every HHOF class is made the same. This one is ours and as a fan i'm stoked. But i'm also aware that the bar has gone down significantly from where it used to be as well. Joe Thornton is one of the last guys that could manage both eras. As far as forwards go anyways. I have zero illusions that EP and QHs would already be in the infirmary. Same goes for a lot of other guys playing todays game. McDavid possibly too. Crosby had to deal with the remnants of that era and ended up in the infirmary as well. If guys like Lindros and Bure get their careers cut short ,,, what do you think would happen to guys like QHs, Fox, etc ... who knows. I suppose if we want to go way back, Wayne wasn't expected to survive a year or two either. Difference was, back then, the entire team would back you up AND you had a couple big brothers around just to keep things honest. Funny how Myers was the guy to hammer Keith. Wasn't even aware of the history. Keith would have been absolutely murdered for doing that pre-lockout. Edit: FYI ... EP's games played even in this era isn't great and covid did screw with some of it. But as far as games played he's miles ahead of where the Sedins were. And will add this - if you look at the last 25 or so games from last season, when he said he was finally 100%, and pro-rate it for an entire year ... 45/95 points is that pace. Can he do it? Not sure. Fitness and weight training need to be his staple. Bure. When he came to the league he was about as built as one can expect for a guy his size. Hope EP commits to that the same way Bure did. Bambi memes ... they come up for a reason.
  19. Yes often forget about him ... he was the guy kids wanted to be playing street hockey when i was small. Or Lafluer. Before Gretzky came along and then that's who we wanted to be (although for me it was Bobby Clarke first lol - or if in net Bernie Parent). Good point. Potvin also if Orr wasn't around ... who was second or third in scoring behind those guys? Robinson or Park i suppose. Its pretty incredible what Gretzky did though ... next up we're guys like Bossy, Stastny, Hawerchuk and sometimes Kurri... 70-90 points behind him lol.
  20. I simply think you missed the point entirely. Prime Gretzky in todays game with no redline and obstruction would absolutely kill it. How do you think Bure would do? Well "prime Bure" managed back to back 100 point seasons with us, at the same time a beaten up almost done Gretzky was still winning Art Ross trophies. People think these guys weren't in shape which is so far from the truth it's silly. Go back and look at Howe and Hull - and i dare you to find two guys in the league right now that we're are in better shape. Or Bure - practicing with a parachute - Chelios, Brindamour, Messier ... it's a complete misconception. Growing up in the 70's-80's you had a lot of fitness going on. Sly was 3% body fat during the final fight with Mr T, Arnie is still considered either the best or second best body builder all-time. It's like people don't know. Hate to break it to you, but it's been a couple decades now where PE and team sports in school has gone from when we were kids - an expectation - to now way back on the far back burner. I don't buy this stuff about who's in better shape. Jagr. Lindros. Good grief. Now it's ipads and screen time - back then after the game what did the guys do? Watching TB do their beach day ... nobody was stacked or ripped. Kesler put them to shame. Tony Twist lol.. used to walk around without a shirt on pre-game just to intimidate the other team. Who's doing that now? The game is faster mostly because there is no longer that extra pass. Bobby Hull is still considered a top ten all-time fastest skater. Gretzky's game was never about skating. He thought the game 6-7 steps ahead of the next best playmakers ... who cares if those guys skated a 14 second lap instead of a 13.5. Edit: I'm almost 50, still go the gym regularly and started at 12 ... because as a young lad that's what kids did...plus played all the sports. As did 80% of the kids my age. When i go i shake my head at the kids in the gym now with their fancy gear and notebooks. Don't even work up a sweat. Was Ali also not a great boxer? Or Frazier? Or Foreman who in his 40's beat the best and won another belt? Hmmm. Don't buy into they crap. Nutrition. Whatever we are doing right now - the "experts" will have a different story in 20 years. Good grief. Bobby Clarke was a diabetic. The 70's for sure guys didn't treat their bodies the same way. 100%. But the 80's brought in a different type of athlete. Fitness was all the rage. Body building took off in the 70's too. Was barely a sport until the Hulk and Arnie put it on the map.
  21. Good points. One thing that's silly is saying McDavid is better then Gretzky (not you but some people lol...obviously never watched him play)... It's so easy to compare eras simply because the next generation plays in their primes for superstars (20's) against the old guard who are in their 30's. If Iginla was the best forward in the 2000's, how come he couldn't wear guys like Sakic, Yzerman, Jagr's jockstrap in the 90's...and how come those guys couldn't out perform a beaten up, bad back bad shoulder Gretzky until he was almost done? When everyone was scoring 80-100 points - Gretzky rattled off 4 200 plus point years...Mario when he came back lol...old and also beaten up was always amongst the lead leaders and the league leader in PPG... To me McDavid is just the best player right now. IF their was no Gretzky, it would have been Hawerchuk and Statsny in the 80's getting all the love like McKinnon and McDavid are now ... Yzerman too. Like Kucherov. Jagr is a very good litmus test of who's who in comparison as well, having played in 3 decades. So was Messier really. As far as goalies just go by save percentage. What's the difference between .888 and .905 anyways? or even .910? There were some goalies too with amazing sp in the 70's as well. Dryden, Parent (take out TO days he'd be over .920)... Esposito..It's a lot harder to stop a shot if your actually making the save not just lowering the percentage's by dropping down. So take away at most 5-7% of these guys points. The 2000's was the worst group of players i've ever watched play. Expansion did that. Once the bevy of stars aged out from the 80-90's like Bure, Federov, Mogilny, Sakic, Yzerman ... well we had St. Louis, Iginla, Lecavalier, Naslund, Alfie, Sedins etc etc ... it was like the league was watered down and players just weren't as good anymore. And the D was even worse ... won't get into that, Lidstrom couldn't win a Norris until his competition thinned way way down...and both those guys (Pronger and Niedermayer) also played half their career in the 90's... Sakic scored over a 100 as a 37 year old and Alfie also did around 34 ... Sundin lol. Those guys were a big level below Gretzky, and we all know how good Sakic, Forsberg etc we're. People still talk about Sundin his last half season with us with reverence and he was never near the top of the leaderboard in the 90's, a much tougher and tougher era then post lockout. Crosby and Ovi helped change things ... now with them in the league still and a much better group of young defenseman then i've seen, well possibly since the early 80's with Borque, Coffey, Housley, Babych, Carlyle, Wilson, Robinson, Potvin, Langway - the last 3 being Hedman, Josi, Carlson etc .... Thats nice. But it really isn't difficult to compare eras. If the old guy in his 30's, is beating young guys in their peak primes ... it's pretty easy to say who's better then whom. I wouldn't say McDavid is better then Sakic or Yzerman ...would you? Stevie Y had two careers on the same team. One all offense, then was asked to be their defensive forward. Same with Federov. And also the goalies in the 90's got better quickly as Roy's style changed. And on Roy ... funny but his save percentage went up and not down as he got older ... pad size? Probably had something to do with it. A lot of HHOF goalies played in the 90's... Finally will say this; Only Orr, Coffey, Gretzky and Mario ever led the field so dominantly, (second best producer year to year) and only Gretzky and Orr did it for a length of time. Gretzky did it for a decade. Averaging 70 points ahead of the next best in the field ... that's crazy - especially given Yzerman had a boffo season and others got to 130 on occasion too. He also beat Bossy if you compare his first 10 seasons to Bossy's as a pure goal scorer. Incredible. McDavid to me...not sure he's better then Crosby was, and I know Mario was definitely better then Crosby. He's having one heck of a career so far (McDavid) ... but even this years playoff performance, doesn't scratch the surface of what Wayne did either. Check out how many points he'd get in how many games...it's why Mario and Gretzky own the record books and probably will for a long time yet.
  22. Good stuff. As long as we don't go busteroo on the tankeroo for sure it's one avenue. I really have no clue what the best course of action is. Just feel that we are in a tough spot and changes need to be made. Felt JB was always half measures and that stuck us where we ended up. Best case, maybe we can be a top 8 team (core ascension). Best case. Kind of a tough pill to swallow for younger fans growing up with the WCE era and Sedin era no doubt. I just want to win a cup. And if that means pull it apart then so be it. I'm not so sure given parity ... have a strong feeling that playoff reps are more important now then ever. Why i'm ok with just playing the team from last season and let the chips fall where they go .... one playoff run with Miller again is price paid in full.
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