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Everything posted by IBatch
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IF we traded all those guys man the return would be something else. Not sure we'd have an easy time retaining EP but who knows. We'd pretty much have to do that to go into full tank mode ... it's definitely an option. But that's going to be about how severe and deep we'd have to cut into our roster to achieve good odds at Bedard and whomever is next. Demko. Man poor Demko. Feel they will make some trades but not go that far. It's really tough to know what is the correct course of action. I'd actually be ok with that if they wanted to go there ... but also sad at the same time.
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Kevin Biestra.... what do you think!? Did they get it right? Personally i think this HHOF class and with all due respect because i'm going to get blasted for this - was just as underwhelming as the Sedins draft (which is considered the worst ever, despite producing two HHOFers). I'm over the moon as a fan of the Canucks. It's very validating. That was one incredible team. Best since expansion not to win a cup. There are a bevy of guys who've waited an awfully long time though... we're they really better? Mogilny > then Alfie. Alfie = Sedins. Just on a worse team. Barrasso, Cujo and Osgood. Take the OTL and OTW and shootouts away and Luongo's stats take a big hit. Osgood was a starter on two cup teams and a back-up on the other plus one more final where if they beat PIT the Conn Smythe would have gone to him instead. I do think Luongo deserved it anyways just saying it's closer then it might appear. Back to our team. Im grateful and stoked we added 3 more players to the list of HHOFers. It's grown exponentially now. Despite the Sedins taking time, they did their time in one tough era growing up and flourished as a result. And as an aside - without checking, pretty sure they have more points then any Toronto player all-time!! Bonus. Will be a long time before their club records are broken. Not even sure EP could do that if he spent 17 years as a Canuck. Linden's club playoff records will be hopefully broken though...
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Didn't have to scroll down long to see this. Absolutely agreed. There are a dozen or so players inducted since Mogilny's first year that should have not got in before him. It's actually strange at this point. Must have ruffled some feathers. All the guy did was win all the major team trophies, as well as playing in the toughest era of hockey ever. Silly really. If Kariya gets in ... which he did, why not Mogilny? Was the better player (watched all that era and would argue with anyone who says he wasn't) ... Alfie? Well sure he was very good too... but also spent a considerable part of his career after the lockout. All the skilled players, even those almost done (Sakic scored over 100 points at 37 and Alfie did the same in his mid 30's... hmmm Zubov scores 50ish points in the dead puck era then explodes for 71 points at 37 too?!!) the rules were changed for a couple reasons. One the skill level was terrible compared to the 80-90's ... and well the game leaned way too far into what Brian McAbe used to do all the time - the can opener or the clutching holding grabbing etc. Alfie i'm glad he got in but that was somewhat also political - a huge OTT based movement gained a lot of media attention the past few months about him getting snubbed. Im ok with the bar lowering a little. But simply don't understand how Mogilny isn't in the HHOF yet.
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It was. THN still writes about it now and then - as the best team since expansion not to win a cup. Was quite the ride. I'm stoked to see all 3 inducted first ballot. Alfie too actually. Mogilny and Turgeon are now the biggest snubs in that order. Mogilny ... not many players have won a gold as a junior, worlds, olympics and a Stanley cup ... don't understand how Kariya got in and he did not. Mogilny was the better player, and he actually won all the team trophies. No slight on Kariya, he was also a great player. Mogilny ... was unreal though. Maybe it's politics like Barrasso and a few others not sure.
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This is a great post. I think a lot of us feel the same way. I also agree that a re-set of the rebuild isn't going to happen the same way it worked out in COL. That was just both pure luck and well more pure luck. First of Makar. Nobody even they didn't expect him to be a generational defenseman. Which so far that's exactly how it's turning out. And no way did they or anyone else for that matter, see an OTT team that was one goal from OT in game seven of the conference final, trading for Duchene, that first put off for a year and in that short period of time a complete implosion. OTT basically traded away an entire core, none of which had reached free agency yet lol. Byram was the return. Said it a many times, this team simply won't go into a rebuild mode with high picks while Demko is around. Only way we could remotely try and be the worst team in the league (which COL was by over 20 points, we were second worst that year) and then lost the lottery and won it anyways with Makar lol...is putting Demko on ice for a year. Not going to happen. The only thing i don't really agree with is Pearson. I agree he's got very decent trade value, he's punching well above his cap hit for a middle six vet at just over 3 (if he scores 33 points he's a very good cap hit) but not sure why he wouldn't fit JR/Allvins model. I'd love it if we could trade Myers and go after Manson ... he's the league's current Mitchell type. I've wanted him for years now. COL..6 drafted players of the 23 that played one playoff game (including Byram and Newhook!)...11 guys via trade ... 5 UFAs. Our team? Horvat, Demko, Brock, EP, QHs, Podz, Hogs ... pretty close to the same. Maybe i missed someone not sure lol. Will say JB also got Miller, OEL and Garland instead of two lottery tickets as well. Would anyone not want Toews for two seconds? Wow did COL do a great job of building that team. Aside from four guys, the rest were a result of trades. Quin was also a master trader. We need some of that right now.
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Expecting a team as good as COL or TB is a bit of a pipe dream. Tearing it down isn't going to make us better necessarily but do get the temptation. Of COL roster only six players were drafted, the rest came from trades or UFAs - as in anyone who actually played a game this playoffs (23 players) Might surprise some ... sure did me. That included Newhook and Byram! Which means only FOUR players on their core were actually drafted. Trades go a long way. Got them Girard (solid top four D), Kadri (Miller-lite), Toews (top pairing D on any team...for two seconds lol), Kuemper who was great in ARI plus plus plus - and those trades resulted in Makar (tanking) and Byram (Duchene trade). Trader Joe Sakic acquired 11 players on that roster from trades, and really could count 13 (given the picks that worked out as well)... and 5 from free agency. Point is, if you look at COL - and want to emulate that, wise trades go a long way towards achieving that goal. OEL and Garland was actually a decent start. Of course Miller worked out better then anyone expected. Those types of trades have add a lot of value.
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I suppose it's possible but it just weakens the return ... maybe we should see how he plays next year ... same with Dickie.
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Which JT Miller Deal would you prefer?
IBatch replied to BCNate's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Do we really think Miller is going to make them that much worse though? It's a totally different scenario then when Duchene went to OTT. That was just a perfect crap storm over there. Likely NJ ends up close to a playoff team next year, adding Miller puts them into the bubble playoff conversation. -
Which JT Miller Deal would you prefer?
IBatch replied to BCNate's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Yes that's for sure the quandary. I've also watched enough hockey to know trading or re-signing him can go worse for us then just letting him walk. Slimmest odds is a trade backfiring and for sure has the most potential over anything else. Sundstrom was also a good player, as was Linden, as was Bertuzzi. We all know how that worked out for us. Of the 3 the only one i was stoked about at the time was Bertuzzi. Sundstrom, Butcher and Lumme for a second set us up to win more playoff games then any other team in franchise history. Miller could be our next Butcher/Linden/Bertuzzi trade ... but he could also just be another Kesler like deal ... likely somewhere in the middle. -
Which JT Miller Deal would you prefer?
IBatch replied to BCNate's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
I really don't like many of these deals - and agree that NYR isn't enough to move the needle. Probably makes them fair lol. Miller is a great player. It's going to hurt to lose him and it might not matter much in the end which hurts too. Wish i had a crystal ball on this one, but can say from watching hockey long enough, you can't win a cup without some trades. Just look at COL. Was it six guys they drafted? Most were traders and UFAs. This idea that drafting wins cups is muddied. Yes you need to draft a core. But you can sure add with trades. We should already know that from the Quin era. -
I think that Brock is one way to go... IF you compare him to Duchene (who also had a crap year before he was traded) their stats are almost the same, PPG wise anyways. To me IF we could pull off a trade like that it would be a good start. That said i have zero illusions a team is going to capsize as hard as OTT did lol. The return of course would also be the cap space. Strength down the middle is awesome to have - and agree with Bruce's comments "try and find five teams with better centers" ... it's very tough to do. That said we don't have the wingers to support them unless we are ok with Pearson/Garland and Podz somehow turns into Rantanen. It boggles my mind too. But don't feel that this team as is - can contend in 2 years. Myers will be gone or maybe back at half the price to be a middle bottom pairing which i'd be happy with but still just a patch. We have to find our Toews ... loading up right now wouldn't work because we don't have the picks and pool to help with cap. So medium long term, i do think we need to consider a re-set. Miller and Brock out would help with that. Need a young 3C and young RHD back ... Both guys that have the potential to move up as well. Like a young Horvat and Bieksa basically. Im ok with just letting things go as is as well and using Miller for the purpose of playoffs. Really curious to see how this team can do in the second season - we simply don't have much sample size in that area aside from the bubble - and those guys were so freaking young to accomplish what they did. Now they should be better. Podz is a wild card IMO still. But would have to blow the doors off to help us at this point.
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[PROPOSAL] JT Miller to Pittsburgh Penguins
IBatch replied to Elias Pettersson's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Team is too good to win the Bedard cup ... even without Malkin and Letang. They'd have to make some serious trades to scuttle the ship just for an almost impossible best odds ... no way would they be as bad as 4-5 teams are now. Seattle, ARI, MTL ... those teams will be considering that. MTL already is with their willingness to trade Petry and other vets (Anderson?). Malkin rarely plays a full season ... Letang wants to stay in PIT. This deal makes more sense then 95% of the ones i've seen proposed. It's a good proposal. Yes i remember Mario coming back just to keep his club afloat, and man were they ever bad for awhile. Sure worked out for him. Richer then any NHL player over now. Differing his wages for shares was a massive win for him. -
Garland was one of our best 5 x 5 guys last season. He's got untapped PP potential as well... I'd really like to keep him. Him and EP also draw the most penalties on the team - that's also important. He's also one of a few guys who cap hit isn't hurting us. Based on his pay he's an excellent producer, also led our forwards in plus minus... Look at it this way, for vet forwards (especially ones expected to produce for you) each 100k should get you a point to match their cap hit as a par. Anything more then that is absolute gravy. He's done that for us. Plus some given he doesn't rely on the PP to pad his stats. That's before intangibles - one of his is he's a bit of a pest and draws penalties because he's also very skilled (maybe being small helps too lol). Where is our bad cap? Well that's pretty simple. Dead cap we are still dealing with from the JB era. So buying out anyone is out of the question. Dickie? Well IF he scores 25 even strength points he's awesome. People need to get that. Brock by far was our worst cap last season. It's not Myers lol. Or OEL but both those guys are not good cap hits either (maybe 2-3 dead cap between the two). EP should be scoring 79 points or so to make his cap hit...he hasn't yet. But for sure looked like he can make it down the stretch and some. Superstars like McDavid and Mathews are worth every cent ... But guys like Garland and Pearson are equally important. Where a team really achieves is having a healthy diet of ELCs coming up to even things out OR older vets willing to play for peanuts ... Brock ... well maybe he can score 73 or so next season let's freaking hope so. Of course it does depend on the player and their two way game as well. Those guys don't need to get a point for every 100k as long as they are keeping the puck out of our own net and doing other things. Miller ... he's still valuable at around 8.5 for us. Or any team ... for a couple seasons anyways. But is going to cost us something decent to keep, and really we need to be prepared to possibly not see him opening night. Our cap isn't ideal. We don't have any ELC's coming up either that we can call slam dunks. Rathbone is our best prospect lol. Not good. What we should be doing, is trading some of our bad cap that has value, and Miller (Brock eventually) and adding behind EP and QHs. It doesn't have to make us worse either ... Brock and Miller would go a long way into making that happen. Miller should be traded as soon as a good deal that makes sense comes along. Horvat is also a guy we need to either sign or trade, in this scenario Miller stays. Brock should be traded IF we want to sign someone like Manson. To me he'd be the ideal scenario. I'm not that concerned about Myers, feel if we don't trade him it's ok ... and if we add a guy like Manson and keep Myers that solves our short to medium term right side issues. I could see Myers signing short term deals at half the cap hit once this deal is done ... another reason i'm not super keen on trading him. Myers on our bottom pairing in a couple years could be a very good thing for us, same as if we kept Edler instead of signing Hamonic ... Brock staying is okay too but we are banking on a bounce back year in that case. Think that's what will happen. And possibly see him traded when his value goes up around this years TDL. Sell high buy low. That's exactly what Sakic did in COL. By trading Duchene (Brock? Miller for sure) and then Barrie for Kadri (plugging a massive hole) and then taking advantage of good teams cap issues, he created an absolute monster team (Toews and Bur, plus Makar, Girard, Byram). Trading Garland to LA means we are banking absolutely that Brock is going to bounce back. I wouldn't do that. Roy is a decent target no doubt - but i wouldn't trade Garland to an up and coming team in our own division either.
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[Proposal] Dream offseason my moves if I’m the gm!!
IBatch replied to Scottydzik's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
4.75-5.25 is reasonable. I'm sure some team will pony up - maybe Seattle (and they'd only have to offer 4.25 instead of us offering 5 ... same take home). I'm always wary of any player who's on a top team - and any UFA that has a "career year " just before going to market. That said he'd be a decent Brock replacement. Take any of our guys and put them on TB or COL and see what they can do...and vice versa. -
Watched his fights ... not very good at it, getting tuned by 17 year olds ... he's not Kevin Bieksa let's just say that but at least he's a gamer. Not surprised at all with the ELC ... only have so many guys you can have and just signed AK. College guys are better targets, or AHL guys. Agree he likely won't play in the NHL but at least he will be a good prospect for Abby, and now he can make a living playing hockey. Defenseman always take longer to develop ... and over the years we've seen enough young vets from the AHL get a chance and earn a spot that it is possible one day he gets a chance. He's got decent size, but anyone who's been to a junior game knows how small those guys are - that will no longer be an advantage for him.
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Was he though! Take a 21 year old Woo and put him in the WHL and see what he can do before going there...Woo was a WHL star his draft year ... wasn't he?. Wouldn't get too excited about this pickup - it's a long long long shot. Woo well not a good pick, went right around where he should have gone based on the prospects at that draft, a little later then some thought just like Kole Lind. These guys don't make it 50/50 of the time to play even 100 nhl games...That said more of JBs seconds should have. Gadj looks to be the only guy of that group that did over a couple seasons ... and he's far from a regular. Hogs, Demko ... who else did we draft in the second round that made it? Second rounders likely don't make it - same as late firsts ... those are the odds. But even then JB should of done a little better... This guy should be dominating the competition at this point. And will find it's a totally different level in the AHL - even though they are the same age. It's good to add to the stable though. And well you just never do know, some actually do better then their junior careers as a pro ... it's rare though.
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[Proposal] Next years first overall draft choice
IBatch replied to Paul-walker's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
They did pick Lafluer. However it's very easy to debate instead they should have picked Dionne. Guy scored 400 more points on some bad to mediocre teams. Maybe if they picked Dionne instead he'd be in an entirely different echelon of legends. Can say this. Saw an old timers game in the mid 90's...Lafluer and Dionne were both there and recently retired .. Dionne skated circles around everyone and had about 8 points. Lafluer had two and his biggest trick was lighting bottle rockets and skating one quick lap down the rink. Dionne has said "if they picked me instead i'd have scored 1000 goals" and i don't think it's too far off. -
[Proposal] Dream offseason my moves if I’m the gm!!
IBatch replied to Scottydzik's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
If you don't get some reps in the playoffs, no matter how good your are, your not going to win a cup first try. Those lessons learned are not "wasted seasons"...TB losing to CLB wasn't a wasted season...neither was St. Louis, PIT, WSH many efforts before winning their recent cups. Even pre-cap dynasties ... Gretzky walking by NYI after their losing final, seeing how absolutely wiped, hurt and exhausted they were taught him an invaluable lesson about what it took to win a cup. Too bad the Canucks didn't follow up with their runs in the early 90's ... that teams core had some youth to it (and some key vets)...Sedin team embarrassed themselves with their follow up. Now the difference between a contender and a playoff team is razor thing, same with quite a few non-playoff teams and the ones that get in. TB and COL ... perfect storms both of them under the cap. -
OJ was mid teens all the way to the start of the second round before the WJs, exactly where he should have been picked ... a few had OJ as high as 6, but not everyone bought it - a loaded FIN team boosted his stats, but a loaded London team, absolutely loaded, and his scoring was modest at best. The following year Bouchard out scored him lol (draft plus one)...sure he wasn't drafted to be a offensive guy but wow was that ever a whiff. The fact we passed on a guy who just scored a goal per game during the playoffs and was 1-3 pick prior to the worlds and then after his playoff performance went right back to 2-4 was ridiculous. Sure we love to hate him (and i hated his Dad), but he just scored 100 point in this league and was a plus 45-50 or something. Haven't seen that since Mario and Gretzky's era (forwards that dominating on both sides of the puck). Was the draft that absolutely pissed me off. Wanted PLD and it was obvious JB did too. Didn't even consider MT because didn't think he'd slip to us. When he did it was for sure an upgrade and was over the moon!!!! No way we just got our top 2-3 pick (we were supposed to draft 3rd i think that year, dumb lottery) .... then OJ? Nobody on the CDC was keen on him or hoping to get him prior...and ISS plus THN had him at 9-11 ... both their rankings come from a consensus of scouts not a hockey personality like McKenzie and Button. Of those two Button at least had the credentials, but he's not spending his days scouting anymore either. Edit: BTW ISS was correct... had Chychrun at 8 and Sergachev at 10...they usually do an excellent job...why? Because that's their only purpose. Don't get why some people take so much stock on what individual hockey personalities think - aside from Button maybe. THN writers also make their writes lists (Kennedy, Larkin and others also put out their own) but it's their Future Watch which matters - that one isn't their list, but a consensus of 10 NHL scouts, it also does a good job. IF JB didn't whiff on OJ this team would be in an entirely different position, likely no Miller for one, likely no Myers either - that part would suck, BUT who else would we have instead? Zegras? Boldy? Hmmm. JB was under a ton of pressure from the ownership AND a large portion of this fanbase ... whenever i read "8 long years" blah blah blah - i shake my head. What we needed to do, was tank for five of them. Couldn't really properly do that. 3 down years just isn't enough these days. As in top five picks. And he only had two 5ths, a 6th, a 7th and a 10th. That simply isn't enough. Didn't help that he couldn't hit on anyone past the second round either. Edler is the last hit. Guys almost retired. That hurt this club a lot.
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[Proposal] Dream offseason my moves if I’m the gm!!
IBatch replied to Scottydzik's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Only teams he'd remotely consider doing that with is TB or Vegas. TB can't afford that so let's say Vegas. That's like us paying him 9 so it's within the realm of reason. But with us? Not a chance. Less the EP... and he's actually performed like a star the past 3 seasons, no slight on EP, he will get there but not going to happen...he's getting at least 45 million on his next deal. And that's on a team without the tax situation we have. We have to face reality. We are all hoping he signs a fair deal with us... a fair deal is Zibanejads plus a little minus the extra year or two. 9 x 6 would actually be a fair deal here, thankfully the cap will go up the final four years of his deal. -
[Proposal] Hate VGK, but it makes sense to deal with them...
IBatch replied to HKSR's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
For ONE season. It's a pipe dream. Vegas ... we won't trade Miller to anyone in our own division (aside from minor things - Kesler is the outlier and that had to do with cycles and that well two teams ... took the best deal available)...Nobody. COL maybe. Historically you just don't trade within your own division with a major swap...aside from that it's entirely possible that Miller lands there as a UFA. Sucks. Id take this deal every time BTW. Most likely Miller is going to the Eastern Confernce - same with Boeser and Horvat if we go this route. -
[Proposal] Dumping our junk in Arizona for Rathbone
IBatch replied to 48MPHSlapShot's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
I'm actually not sure if we should trade Rathbone. Boner could bone us in a trade. It's happened! That said well maybe not too. -
[Proposal] Let's Go Get that 2nd OA Pick
IBatch replied to HKSR's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
That would be amazing for us for sure. -
Let's go Crazy! (Proposals) NHL-22 Style
IBatch replied to J.I.A.H.N's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
I thought they were hot dogs. Long dogs. Just like the summers - our guys go golfing - and we make $&!# up!!