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[Signing] Oilers sign Evander Kane
IBatch replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Lucic of course comes with history against our best team...Hamhuis hip check was one of the best hits last decade ... but it hurt him. Wasn't a big fan of him back then anyways because he'd rarely fight an actual enforcer (and they still existed)... but was happy to pound away on lesser fighters. Prout isn't a real enforcer, but managed fine - and of course i think it was Orr who he dropped with early in his career after beating a bunch of chumps - and when he started to lose called the refs in like a baby ... to me that is a bully move - beat up smaller or non or rarely fight guys - then fight someone around your size, start losing and cry for mommy. Should have taken his medicine. Aside from that absolutely i'd have rather had Lucic then LE and said so many times back then. Has the Vancouver connection. I'm warming up to the idea of taking a shot at Evander Kane. No rumblings of any issues in EDM with him on the team. Must be on his best behaviour. Don't think the timing is quite right - but a 2-3 year deal at around 5 would be just fine. Edit: Now there really are only a couple guys in the entire league that could square off with Lucic and manage fine. That's both sad and really tough to understand as a long time hockey fan. Used to be kids would do anything to make the NHL - maybe it's a good thing that pressure is gone. Fighting is allowed for a reason, and makes the game one of the most entertaining sports in the world. Linesman do a great job of protecting the players. Not like the old days where they stand back and wait for the guys to tire out, first good shot they come in and break it up. I'm not sure id be interested if that is ever taken out of the sport. -
[Signing] Oilers sign Evander Kane
IBatch replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Funny how this deal right now is moving EDM along .... Evander Kane and Duncan Keith, two guys we love to hate or beat on (and moves that we criticized Holland for making)...are at least for now ahead vs CAL who was one of the favourites heading into the playoffs (and rightly so - CAL doesn't have any weaknesses and arguably the team best built for the playoffs - both in depth and size/toughness).... Evander Kane was EDM answer to making the best of an oppurtunity, even though it was for sure one that came with nuclear radiation given Kane's past. Sure last night was his best game - but all he's done is score goals, make plays and add a deadly element to that line that it didn't have before. And with Hyman plus RNH, they aren't a one trick pony anymore. And Keith .... i've always thought Bouchard was a stud of a pick - and wow look at him now. Learning from one of the best of his era, piling up the points, and learning how to become a better, more complete defender. EDM window looks pretty decent right now. Vancouver is going to have to make some pretty savy trades or draft way above our draft slot to compete with these guys the next couple of seasons. -
[Signing] Maple Leafs re-sign Mark Giordano
IBatch replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
No doubt. Imagine if Yzerman came home and Sakic. We'd have been unstoppable during the WCE era, not only because they'd be on our team (Sakic broke 100 as a 37 year old!), but because both COL and DET were our stiffest competition. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of Evander Kane a little watching him chase some records right now. 10 goals ... barely into the second round. Bure had 16. Reggie Leech record scoring at his rate is actually doable IF somehow they make it to the final. Edit: All he has to do is score 3 more and he's in the top 50 all-time ... some massive names on that list. Don't have any skin in the battle of Alberta - as who wins. Starting to like the idea of McDavid and Co going head to head with COL. Would be quite the barn burner. -
[Signing] Penguins re-sign Bryan Rust
IBatch replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
It makes zero difference - these guys still buy their cars in the US because they are 40-50% less then up here in CAN (sports cars/toys) and buy property wherever they want. Aside from maybe housing - cost of living doesn't even come into any of these guys minds. Any NHL player can buy property in CAN as well. When it comes to food and other things it's all relative. Wages are higher up here for the most part, so is gas and food. Those things ... what's 10k difference here or there per year per family to one of these guys? Definitely not a big incentive. Brocks got friends on the team (sure hope anyways), that helps, as does it's a nice city, especially if you have money. There are quite a few cities in the US that also have pull, CHI, Boston, NY especially...WSH is nice too...Seattle meh...Vancouver is nicer for sure. Tough to say what motivates these guys, but Canadian players seem to come home at some point, even if it's late in their careers. I like Brock, hope he signs a 2-3 year deal around what he's getting now. With some cap going up since he signed it's about all he's proved so far. That QO was made with the idea cap would be going up, and that he wouldn't have as hard a time earning it. Covid also screwed with us truly finding out ... he was very good last season and earned that year - the other two not so much. Edit: On US players. You'd think they'd have teams growing up they'd like to play with .... and that at some point, just like some Canadian players, they'd like to go home too. If i was an NHLer Canucks absolutely would be my first choice - but of course any team would be fine to start with. Vancouver is a beautiful city, and the province as a whole is an absolute gem. Lots to do. -
[Signing] Penguins re-sign Bryan Rust
IBatch replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Brock was already being paid like a top line RW .... JR said he doesn't have a problem with his QO but also said he hasn't done enough for more then a 2-3 deal (and everyone knows he didn't earn his last deal ... Garland outperformed him without PP time at a million less) ... won't even check to see where he ended up for right wings ... outside of the top 30 i'm sure despite getting paid like a good RW (which last year he was)... fans are also dreaming if they think any team would pay hit what his QO offer is on more then one year as well - 9th highest paid RW next season and seriously flawed game last year. If he signs a 2-3 year deal it won't be much more then what he's getting now, maybe even the same or less. Hasn't earned it yet. -
[Signing] Maple Leafs re-sign Mark Giordano
IBatch replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Seems like a bit of a theme now. AM/Tavares/Marner/Nylander suck up cap like crazy, and old Ontario boys come home to try and win a cup on their last legs for peanuts. Maybe this time they get out of the first round lol. On Edler ... Doubt we see him back at this cap hit. -
Alf i'm not sure that's what I heard from all the buzz at the trade deadline. Friedman at least shaved his beard although i now want him to grow it back - it was super badass. I don't give as much stock into his suppositions as some but do get that he's now the new number one insider. Allvin said it was quiet at the TDL. Their was some buzz before it but it blew away - and what would our fans say if we traded Miller for a bag of pucks when we were going down the stretch? There is a reason the only thing that occurred was freeing up 1.5-2 in cap space for Motte and Hamonic after replacements. It's to pay for Halak, Holtby, JV and Brock. The math works that way. I don't see is doing a heck of a lot in the off season. Maybe a better deal comes along for Miller but those that kicked the tires weren't willing to make it work - and Allvin is in the cat birds seat in that regard because we still have time until the trade deadline to move him - or just re-sign him. Both come with risks. I'd actually be 100% ok with just letting him play it out - and then moving on. That's also not the worst case one bit. Edit: As far as a number that works for us - i'd say 5 years at 8.25. But bonus the money out so he gets all the dough - no mater what.
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Retaining doesn't help us. We are a high tax team all our contracts are going to cost us more then most of the league that's a fact. Not sure what the purpose is to move OEL. Wait and see what Klingbergs next deal is going to look like. Nurse. Jones. Trouba a couple years ago. Myers isn't nearly the cap dump people think he is - OEL he's our new Edler basically. But doesn't get the PP time. Only guys other teams want are Miller, Garland and Pearson. That's about it. We don't have the prospects to play ball and dump OEL. Myers yes i think teams would take him straight across for a low pick.
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Sure. Advanced stats m, regular stats any stats have Garland as a pretty decent top six player on both good and mediocre teams. I'm sorry mll, i just don't buy it. Both the eye test and the stats work in Garlands favour. And speaking of Hartman - to me he was the MIN wild most noticeable forward in the bubble - always in the play and plays a tough hard nosed game. The other player i noticed was Soucy. The rest ho-hum to decent. Your really starting to reach here by stating positions. As well as mentioning guys who play on top lines and get the minutes on the PP that Garland doesn't. To be honest i didn't know much about Garland when we traded for him. First went to see what ARI fans thought of him and to a person they all felt like they'd been gut punched or kicked in the nuts. That's another metric you won't get on a hockey site or looking at stats or whatever a GM says about a person. If you believe everything a GM says - well go check out what Dallas said about Dickie. We supposedly got a great hard working guy for a song. And they didn't "want to trade him" said all the right things. To me it was more telling what the fans actually thought about losing Garland. They were literally freaking out when they heard the trade was coming because they were worried Garland might be included, and when they found out he was were downright mad about it. Felt they got fleeced. You absolutely have to include C with C, RWs with RWs and LWs with LWs. Sure a couple, not a lot, but a couple muddy the waters given they also play C. Again, and this includes guys that play both C/RW - Garland was 22 in scoring without even including 49 even strength points - good god why would anyone argue against that not being a top six player just by itself - then dig a little deeper - he was 11th in plus minus on a non playoff team .. plus 18 ... that's not a great stat more of a team stat, but look at Brock in comparison lol...not even close ... and the eye test also holds up there. Yes he's small. So was Theo Fluery all 5'4" of him, so was Martin St. Louis, and two of my favourite all-time Canucks Ronning and Walker were height challenged too - all in an era where most D's were 6'2-6'4" ... this game is tailored now to little defenseman and smaller skilled guys. Tom Wilson is a goof. Wouldn't want him near our dressing room - defended him and his suspensions which used to be a penalty - until he did what he did in NYR...total bully. Yes size still matters - but who are we going to replace Garland with? If your interested, another thread was created that showed just how good he really is. At or near the tops in most catagories. 49 even strength points is star level for most wingers. Edit: Burrows played with the Sedins. Garland did not. Go check out his stats. How many times did he score 49? I personally think, that Garland is underutilized. Maybe i'm wrong.
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Maybe not. Maybe not until this TDL or maybe not at all. It's entirely within the realm of possibility, he just plays out his contract then heads south or even re-signs with us. Allvin said it was quiet around the TDL. Think once Giroux was traded his market went down but that's just supposition. I haven't heard anything from the Canucks that there was a deal for Miller - OR what that return could have been. Just 1000 things on this site and from TO/NYR fans and media.
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No doubt. Not a source is it. Some people see Friedman's 31 thoughts and think it's gospel too (which of course it is not). We have at very best - a glimpse into what's going on. GMs say things all the time and then don't do what they say - that's playing 3D chess. I'm sure some love the "prize fight" post and pre-game stuff, personally i think it's more then a little silly really. Only thing i really loved was JT Millers post game comment about " maybe we should wear the black (skate) every home game" .... doesn't mean it's going to happen - but it sure created a lot of buzz on this site. Because - well they are just so much better lol.
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As a Florida fan - what would you consider a fair trade for Miller? He's a star in this league, has produced like a first line C 3 years in a row now (more then Tavares and a lot of other big names), hits, durable as heck and plays the game the right way. All for 5.25 lol. Based on his last 3 seasons, that production is worth close to 10 in our market - yours 8.2 given the tax differences. Should be good for another 4-5 years before regression sets in. Kind of fits your window doesn't it? Edit: Also thanks for being honest about your affiliation - and welcome. SabresFan always had some good insights when it came to trade proposal's with Buffalo. It's nice to have other fans on this site especially those who make it known.
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Vancouver also has a pretty decent trade history with the Panthers. Luongo twice ... OJ last year etc. They for sure are a good target and feel Hornqvist would cost them something nice because well he's the odd man out. Bennet is a good target for us - an upgrade on Dickie that's for sure. He's also a bit of a risk - for both Florida and our team. Can't ever have too many C's ... and with a Miller trade at least 50/50 this would help too. Rhino would be nice of course but his contract length is worrisome. What would Miller to Florida look like?
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Retaining that much for that long would be a tough pill to swallow. To me he's our vet anchor on D .... a lot of teams have that, even good ones like COL with Johnson. He also provides depth in case QHs goes down. Takes time for players to adjust to a new team ... hopefully both him and Poolman, and Dickinson amp it up now that they've settled in. I'm not sure what Allvin will decide, but do feel that Miller is still the most likely guy on his way out, possibly Brock as well. I'm hoping that Brock will agree to a 2-3 year deal. That is about what he's getting now. That would help mitigate some of our cap issues. OEL ... well it's really tough to understand that a guy who's that talented and that young (blue chip D's peak 28-33), doesn't have more to give. Given he didn't get first unit PP time much anyways, his production was good, but not enough for that cap hit. We won't get as lucky as we did with Schenn every year - so do see someone on there way out. Feel it's likely Brock, Miler (not as a cap dump but a hockey trade) maybe too. JB sure needed the boot. Did a decent job drafting ... the rest a mish mash. This team can't contend without some seriously lopsided trades and or some awesome drafting the next two seasons.
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Again why move Garland at all? Myers played well enough to find a partner that doesn't cost us anything, and we'd forget a pick back for him or a prospect. I don't see that happening right away or maybe at all unless we can somehow find a suitable RHD replacement UFA for less ... not sure that's going to happen at all either. Our bad cap is actually Brock based mostly right now. OEL and Myers maybe 2-3 collectively...not great but not terrible either, not like it's Subban and his 9 million lol....Or some of the guys that signed last year to ridiculous deals either (Nurse, Jones)....Would be nice to get more production out of both OEL and Myers, but they did well 5 x 5 and that comes up in their plus minus. A solid pairing, overpaid yes but that's going to happen on the free agent market most of the time. Garland ... at 4.95, is currently the 26th highest paid RW... Brocks last year was 14th... Garland was 20th in scoring WITHOUT any first unit time. Add 20-25 points and he'd be way up there. Brock on the other hand, was a terrible cap hit for us. And he's going from 14th to 9th this summer. Has a lot to prove. Needs to be a 70 point 35-35 type to earn that pay cheque. Garland was also the 11th best plus minus on a NON playoff team. Essentially, he was like a first line RW on a bottom third team - and punched well above his weight class. Was arguably our best player before Bruce came (forward)... had a slump and turned it on again last 20 or so games as did pretty much everyone. Rust just got a 5.15 six year deal as a 30 year old and has scored 270 in 424 games, a lot of those playing with either Crosby or Malkin. I don't think we can do better then Garland via free agency...and Brock need to either sign a 2-3 deal at around the same cap hit, or given his QO and actually earn it or that's more cap down the toilet. Myers sure he's 6....there are a ton of guys paid 5-6plus, not exactly that much cap lost gain to be made there either on the free agent market - but if it meant Manson, i'd be interested for sure. Who's going to play with OEL then though? Burroughs? I suppose Schenn.
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Great job JamesB. I've been pumping Garlands tires on other threads - he's on an awesome contract for us - and not someone i'd like to see traded. Absolutely drove the play, was a pest, drew penalties, made any line a little or even a lot better .... and was 11th overall for RWs in plus minus, at or near the top on penalties drawn RW, 22nd in scoring and much higher for 5 x 5 for his positions, and is the 26th highest paid RW. In a couple years he will be in the 40 plus range there... definitely not a cap dump, and personally wouldn't trade him for a first rounder unless it was 10 or higher. Every single league he's been in, he's figured it out. Has some Martin St. Louis in him. Has a chance to be our McKinnon IF he also gets first PP time. Add 25 points to his totals and that's mid 70's production for a song.
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TB ... Miller makes 850k LESS on his deal playing here, then he did in the US. It's like beating a dead horse. Those guys taxes at 36.4 vs 53%...well you do the math. Their "discounts" aren't as big as you might think. They are masters all right - of drafting well and LUCKY enough to afford an extra Stamkos plus (think about what we could do with say 100 million instead of 81.5) ... Absolutely agree Hedman is better. QHs would have to be getting over 9 to have the same salary here in Vancouver. It's not apples and apples. I absolutely agree drafting is key, as are an ability to make the right trades. Quin was a trade master. Nonis trading for Luongo ...Linden trade ... I can see why Millers, Brocks and even Horvats name comes up. Not sure how Allvin will work towards making this team a contender ... we are close as far as becoming a playoff team. Lidstrom couldn't win until the competition thinned aged out ... Hedman has got some very steep competition now, always nominated ... Rafalksi, Gonchar, Phanuef vs Makar, Josi, Fox, etc etc is quite the higher level ... QHs is likely going to have to score 100 points to beat out these guys ... tough to do. Only a few ever have. Hedman is probably the most complete D in the league. Your absolutely right though - having players punching above their caps is what makes a contender - an entire group of them. TB ... you might not know this, but if you add that extra year (8), and then go to the Gavingroup calculator - Stamkos is making the same net pay that he was offered in SJ ... take a gander at what they offered him. Hedman would have to make over 10 x 7 in most Canadian cities to get the same amount of guaranteed money. They for sure are the envy of the league.
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Exactly. Bieksa too. Of that teams entire core and support players, only three actually were ok with it (or worked out), well past their primes. How's a team supposed to get a boost of picks and returns? Team was always going to take a long time to get a new core going, never bottomed out, barely any help from one of the best teams we've ever had (a couple seconds, etc etc etc)
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[Proposal] Garland traded to LAK
IBatch replied to BigTramFan's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Sources where he was on the trade block ... and as you said who is reporting that JR couldn't find a first for him at the trade deadline. 5 x 5 is ES points. -
[Proposal] Garland traded to LAK
IBatch replied to BigTramFan's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Sources please. He was 22nd in RW scoring...49 points is pretty darn good (5 x 5) - led our forward group in plus minus and drew a ton of penalties... you'd be surprised maybe at how few Canucks ever have done that...Maybe i missed this - but don't recall JR or anyone for that matter - singling Garland out as trade bait. Of course there are media suppositions. -
Yes. Pearson is a perfect stopgap with trade value. Garland both fits the age range and well, it's hard not to like the guy. And he's not overpaid. 50ish points cost you 5 million these days like it or not. Heck Horvat was signed years ago, his deal is almost done, and makes more. Sure he's a center (and a good one at that) - and a key part of our leadership group. Will people cringe when he gets a Kevin Hayes like deal? It's coming. As far as Myers go i hate to see him go but if that means we get a younger RHD who can score 30ish points and play decent top four then yes time to go. Edit: This team is doesn't have much choice to take half measures past next season. It will be telling what they decide to do.
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Sure does... not to mention he spent significant time carrying a third line for awhile too. Is Horvat next? Sure scored a lot of goals - mostly at the end of the year, but also is a fixture on the first unit. Who's plus 18 and draws more penalties? Nobody is. Guys a warrior. We aren't COL and don't have the extra Stamkos/Kucherov Barkov cap help no state tax has (its like having one of those guys or two extra Palat/JT Millers .... Stamkos was offered 12 by SJ but is making the same take home pay with one extra year in TB... food for thought)....
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Your not listing all the players - but are listing contenders or good teams. Again, Garland assisted just as well 5 x 5 as Kopitar and Crosby (tied), not like he's in bad company with 49 points is he? How many 5 x 5 points did JT Miller get in Tampa? Not as many granted he didn't get the same ice time either - well except for the first unit PP time. Garland isn't part of the teams cap structure issues. Also have to wonder how Garland would do on some of those teams - wouldn't you? Not to mention he stacked up favourably against quite a few of those guys you've mentioned. In case your wondering, pure stats wise Garland was 22nd for right wingers this season. But no - he's not a top six player. He's 22nd on a FIRST line, and didn't get any PP time ... well scored 3 points in his 10-20 seconds to get the puck back in deep and make a play (OEL too on that front). He was also 11th in plus minus.. and thanks to his pesty/skilled play, helped draw a ton of penalties. He's not going anywhere. To me he's worth a mid first rounder for five years every single time. Edit: Not too shabby for 26th (soon to be less then 30) overall paid RWs in the league. By the time his contract is done probably close to 40. Now one guy i absolutely love that you do too i'm sure is Hartman. Was one of MIN best forward's IMO in the bubble - him and Soucy were noticeable every shift. What a season he had.