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IBatch

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Everything posted by IBatch

  1. Yep. Notice who's also not on the list, despite being one of the few guys to break or get to 150? Two guys actually.
  2. Not so sure about that. They had a nice run when Tochett came in and Miller replaced Horvat, but from his own lips (the coach) he wants the bottom six lunch pail guys to take slack off the star players, on the PK. Wouldn't surprise me if EP and Miller become the second unit. Tochett also brought up a run he had with Richardson and some other guy, in ARI, where for a month or so they piled up points. It's not like that pace was sustainable, 5 points each came within a few games of each other, the body of work shows EP can do it, and Miller maybe too. Pretty sure they won't be doing 3-4 minutes a night anymore.
  3. Allvin for sure has the data. And he's loading up as much as he can so that Tochett has what he needs to ice a proper PK unit. EP and Miller were ripping it up under him as PKers too... Even an average unit for the year, would add probably 10 points to last season. All those multi goal leads ... blown. It will also help Demko a lot. Same with whomever else is playing in net.
  4. You forgot to add: 83-84 plus 78, 12 shorties only 20 PP goals 84-85 plus 100 (huh!?) 11 shorties only 8 PP goals. So...wasn't padding stats on the PP, goals anyways. Gretzky could also add some other seasons but think we get the idea.
  5. Only one I played was some game in 1993. It was hilarious. I'd always play Detroit, my brother would play Vancouver ... I'd use Paul Ysebeart, come down the wing, and score every single time with a shot near the blue line (cheat code!).
  6. After reading his book I was a little disappointed in him. Took modesty (which followed him throughout his public speaking during his career) to a level where ... it was just damn. Where is the "yes I was really, really good". Coffey has this. Other great (and some not even close to great) players occasionally toot their own horn. But he never did. If he was there I bet he blushed. Edit: The first crack in the armour for me was last year with those gambling crap. Not sure why he'd lend his name to that. But when he was playing, he was squeaky clean. Maybe it's about image. But i think he's just a very smart guy, from humble roots. His Dad never quit his job. Kept climbing poles to retirement age, when he surely didn't have too.
  7. One thing that's really funny ... is if you want to check out his records. He's often also second. So not only is he the record holder he's also second, or well 6-8th as well. Assists records, single season. 1-7 WG, 8 Mario Most goals in a season: WG 1 and 2. Most assists playoffs and regular season: Mario is tied for 11th... rest are Wayne's. It's actually kind of gaudy so won't go on.
  8. If they let him in, he's got wait for a lot of other guys to get in first. Including quite a few Canucks.
  9. Problem with this calculation, are shoot-out points and games that used to just be ties... did they really have a better regular season then MTL and DET did? One thing do have in common with DET though, is getting ousted fast. But MTL, just kept winning cups. That said. Nope not often at all.
  10. For sure he was feared. And no he wasn't a goal scorer first at all. Yet scored a ton of goals. Playoff's and regular season. For me anyways, when he suffered his shoulder and back injury, he decided to not shoot the puck as much (his shooting percentage is pretty whack - which also shows you that he wasn't trying to score, by "shooting it at the net", he shot to score - like Bossy) ... some guys lead the league in scoring because they shoot the puck every time they can. Gretzky was a great goal scorer ... but it for sure wasn't his primary goal. The most dangerous guy in the play was the last guy coming into the zone which he created. Guy was a genius hockey player. Nobody will ever do what he did. Bedard. McDavid. Eventually we will all die and his stats will just pop out like some era thing. And be explained away. So do appreciate this thread. My only regret was not being old enough to see Orr play. To me he's the only other guy that could possibly have challenged his greatness. Because of my older friends that tell me stories about how he played. But even they wouldn't put him ahead of Gretzky, just bring him up as someone who could have.
  11. This is one of my pet peeve's about "era adjusted" stats. If the guys in their mid 30's, are outproducing kids that have barely any playoff games or any games in them yet but are the future stars ... what the heck is wrong with just comparing eras with stars in their 30's against the next crop? Sure seems easy to me. How good was Iginla, Lidstrom, St. Louis, Alfie, Sundin, Sakic, Kariya, Bure, Federov, Selanne, Mogilny, etc etc etc against Mario, Yzerman and Gretzky? Or go back again, and how good was Gretzky against his own peers, plus guys like Dionne, Bossy, Potvin, Robinson, Lafluer etc etc ...Bobby Clark. Statsny. Hawerchuk. Lafontaine. Hull. Messier. A long list. Gretzky was twice as good as guys that were just as good as the next crop! So. Yikes. Joe New. Shanny. Lesser guys like Propp, Corson, Roberts. Linden. A long long list. It's not that hard. We can do that now with Ovi, Kane, Malkin and Crosby and others.
  12. Ovi has longevity, durability Dave Anderchyuk, Gartner plus going for him. Gretzky retired with exactly one more pro combined goals as Howe playoffs/WHA combined. Ovi breaks that record, he can have the mantle as the greatest goal scorer ever. Phil Esposito a couple years ago, said it best. "Gretzky is the best goal scorer ever, until someone breaks his record he's the best ".
  13. He actually made a mistake. The Hockey Guy. The lockout wasn't in 92-93. That was Wayne's back that kept him out that year, not a lockout. He almost retired. Not to take anything away from the video, but that data isn't correct. Edit: Sorry Hockey Guy corrected himself. Said it was his back injury. A little surprised that he didn't know the exact date of the lock out half season... Lindros won the Hart, Coffey his last Norris (14 seasons into his career).
  14. Mic Drop for sure. Anyways .. 61 records some have been broken. The guy was so good, we had to pick goals or assists doing our hockey pools. And he often had more assists than second place!
  15. Gretzky buzz was impossible to not get pulled into as a kid. But Coffey was the guy I liked watching the most. Still unsure how he could take two or three steps then speed up while gliding. Everyone else kept pushing and pushing off their blades to go faster (power skating)... Coffey was just amazing. I do think if you match him with all of Orr's seasons, he actually kept up. Boston was a freaking powerhouse but only won two cups. One of the best teams all-time. Still don't think any team matched how many 20 goal plus scorers they had. Edit: Also wonder what Coffey would have managed as a winger. Didn't get to see Orr play. So wouldn't dare to say he was as good. But i haven't watched a better skater since. That includes Bure, Selanne, Federov etc.
  16. Just for fun. Because this is a Gretzky thread. He won 9 Hart trophies his first ten years, the one he didn't win Mario won, but it was also an injury plagued season for Gretzky. He won the following year. 8 years in a row is a record that likely never is broken, yet it's not even seen as one of his records that are impossible to beat. Mario won 3. Art Ross. He won ten. Average points? 195.5. Yikes! McDavid. Anyone? Mario! Nope. (Edit: he also should have co-owned one his rookie year..at 18 he was denied the Calder because of the WHA stuff .. tied Dionne, a couple less goals .. but won a Hart anyways. Who else has won a Hart at 18?! ... if he was given that Art Ross, because less games, or at least co-owned it, would lower his average, but bring it up to 11... how many do we think McDavid will win? 5-7 maybe.) 50 goals in 38 games. Good luck! Try doing that at age 20... good grief that was Gretzky though. Makes hyperbole seem silly. Alien. Probably. 163 assists in 85-86. Mario was second in scoring with 141 points. So he had 22 more assists plus could score 50 plus goals (plus 71 lol) ... then the second highest scorer. And he didn't feast on the power play. Was also a PKer....
  17. Same thing goes with Patrick Roy. Game 7 goalie. Pick him first.
  18. Me too. And was rooting for them both. Edit: Hockey writers were comparing Doughty to Brad Park for years and going completely ape shit because he scored a couple goals in the Olympics. And completely ignoring the actual, real Brad Park, who of course was Weber. I'd build a team around Weber before Doughty. Edit: How many partners did he make great? Or help. How many did Doughty.... To me Doughty is overrated. He's good yes, but he isn't Shea Weber good. Pouty Doughty ... 1058 giveaways and counting. Minus magnet might be over ... a few more years maybe he will catch up Dave Babych and other guys who aren't in the HHOF.
  19. There for sure were great teams, and then the rest. But at least those other teams got to play in the playoffs. Unlike now where 50% doesn't make it. And it's so vanilla that the last "play-in" team in MTL who was 21 at that point ... makes the final just to get destroyed. Edit: And now we have teams miss for over a decade! That's a travesty. Even CAR missed 9 years in a row.
  20. The closest was Kurri. Who was usually second or third or fourth in scoring with someone like Dionne (super underrated guy ... if he played with MTL instead of Lafluer i'm sure he'd have scored 1000 goals, and over 2000 points), Bossy, Hawerchuk or Stastny, and one boffo Yzerman year. Don't disagree. Robataille also owes some things to Gretzky. A lot of people owe a lot to him really. To me Mario got his massive talent too. Francis. Jagr. Coffey. Murphy. Stevens. Rechhi. But also had periods (like Gretzky), where he didn't have much. Same thing could be said about Crosby. He didn't get a Backstrom like Ovi did. He usually played with some nobody and a name he was making like Guenztal. The best players, make good players better. And ok players good. Nicholls ... that was a travesty of epic proportions. After having his boffo season, asked the owners/GM if he would be safe to buy a home. They said "absolutely!" ... so he did and then got traded. I'm sure if that wasn't done, he'd be in the HHOF already, and Gretzky would be well over 3000 points which seems gaudy because it is. So is his actual point score.
  21. His book is amazing. Modest to the point where it's a little annoying because he never once talks about records this records that. Instead he goes through the history of hockey, up to his era, and past his era. Guys for sure a savant. Didn't try to do things his body couldn't do. Bobby Clarke could be one mean piece of crap. Not sure Gretzky took notes about that. How to slash someone hard enough to break an ankle.
  22. Yes. Gretzky, Messier and Coffey have commented on how many more cups they'd have won if they could have kept them together throughout their primes. Crazy to think how young they were doing what they did. Ive mentioned before, if you take Gretzky out of the 80's completely ... would it have been any different than the 70's? Nope. High water mark was actually 1981 as far as scoring goes. Take Mario out too. It would be just garden variety star stuff. Coffey proved he was a superstar as did Messier. How many times did the Oilers score over 400 goals? A lot. Crazy. Now 300 is considered a lot, and has been since the late 90's.
  23. The Oilers won a cup in 1990. I watched every game. It was wonderful to see them win again after we were out. Guess who won the Conn Smythe and why. After 1993, it was the best goalie performance i've ever seen. CAL had an awesome team in the 80's too, the rare time EDM slipped, they went to the final one loss one win. The year after EDM traded Gretzky, he beat them head to head. Losing Coffey and then Gretzky was a massive thing back then. The 1990 Oilers was a testament to how great that team was, but also, like Quick with LA, something you should know about, they simply don't win without Ranford. Guy was shell shocked and making one amazing save after the other. The 1990 Oilers were nothing at all, like the their peak. It's too bad they didn't keep the band together EDM, but not the league. They reversed the 4 x 4 rule after they disbanded. Imagine been so good they had to make a rule to punish you. That's Gretzky. Mario. He was great too. You won't give up I get that, but i'm sorry man, watched both of them, i'd pick prime Gretzky every single time first. In LA he had a lot less to work with. Took a 100 point guy and made him a 150 point guy. The Hockey Guy, I respect him. Let's see what he had to say about Wayne should we? Just for fun, read what NHL.com had to say about him as one of the 100 greatest players to ever. I've subscribed to THN for decades now...funny their newer writers think Lidstrom is the bomb and moved him right into the top five arguable number two. The older writers face palm themselves and bring up guys like Potvin, Robinson, Borque, Al Mac and even Pronger. Why? Because they watched them play. And not only that, play against each other! Lidstrom didn't win a Norris until he was in his 30's. Why is that? Well, the old guys aged out. Borque played on mostly worse teams aside from two brief periods. But still got votes every single year of his career. Even when Boston sucked. Lidstrom? Well i'm glad people got to see him play. But Borque was so much better. Coffey too. AL Mac well probably. Potvin for sure. Robinson versus Lidstrom would be tough. If I was building a top six, I don't even know if I'd have Lidstrom on the team, but younger people, think he's the best thing since slice bread as the saying goes. Smooth as butter, great first pass. But not as good as some of the others. Mario. Magnificent. He was. Maybe if he was better at not getting held onto and having to try and score with a guy on his back, he'd challenge Gretzky (back injury, was bad ... at one point needed someone to tie his skates ugh ...would have been great to see him healthy). Gretzky, was so good in LA too. Proved he was the best ever during that stretch. LA beat EDM ... with a better lineup after the trade. Why? Gretzky.
  24. MG signed that deal. It helped us get a lower cap hit, and he paid him all upfront so really Luongo made even more (future value of money ... a dollar today makes you interest). He also traded Luongo.
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