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Everything posted by IBatch
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Well guess we will find out. Personally i have zero issue with both guys coming back next year ... all this Brock worry doesn't worry me much - we either trade him, get a bag of pucks back and cap space, sign his QO and see how things go, or he takes a deal on the table which is IMO at least not going to last more then 3 years .. 4 at most - and won't look much different then Garlands deal. If Allvin wants to trade him, he's going to arbitration first from the team - not common but it happens. Each route isn't bad for the team. As far as Miller goes ... well 99 freaking points lol. I'd be happy to play out his contract (option one), trade him (better lower your expectations, there wasn't a deal at the deadline Allvin was interested in...can make as many trade proposals as you want but we are not getting Schnieder or Laffy etc etc etc ... for sure we'd have pulled the trigger) option two - or just see how things go and trade him for future at the draft or the TDL. Who knows. They aren't going into rebuild mode so i highly doubt one won't be back - and actually doubt they both won't be back.
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(Proposal) Move up in the draft & Upgrade the D
IBatch replied to eeeeergh's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Wow who pissed in your cheerios. What does Guerin think about this deal? You'd know. -
(Proposal) Move up in the draft & Upgrade the D
IBatch replied to eeeeergh's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
First off, kudos for not including Miller lol...that's great. I personally think this is a pretty spot on value. -
I'm not so sure i'd want to watch Quin with a stump below the right arm. Joking aside .... i love players coaches. They go through walls for their team and their coach because they don't want to disappoint. Anyone who's been lucky enough to work for a boss like that understands what i mean. And anyone who's been a boss also takes that with them later.
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A learning experience i hope. Mistakes and errors are the mana for improvement. Reality is Green created a focus and system geared towards puck possession and that part actually stuck. When he left we were a top five possession team, something we haven't achieved since the peak Sedin era and even then we weren't tops - around the same (4/5). But he smothered the players and our special teams were terrible. It was at least a week too late as far as the coaching change goes. That wouldn't have been enough anyways ... the team did win 2/3 before his firing.
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It's the price we had to pay to get a new management and coaching team. Love that Walker is behind the bench, and that Bruce is there too. But in reality what you just said is true to a certain degree as well. Not all players were playing like sh!t, but enough of the important ones were. Green messed up. But so did some younger players especially - i freaking hope that this pattern - and it is a pattern now, they did it the year before too, learned some valuable lessons about not using their off season in the gym and working on their skills.
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Who's your Coaching choice now with Trotz on the market?
IBatch replied to Deets's topic in Canucks Talk
It's all about presence. That's it. Quin had to eventually get off the ice because of his hips. Bruce knows leg days you can't cheat leg days. -
Who's your Coaching choice now with Trotz on the market?
IBatch replied to Deets's topic in Canucks Talk
I was with your until the last paragraph. Seriously - NYI didn't have a roster that was close to two conference finals in a row - let alone a one goal game 7 vs TB sort of deal. But he did it. And NSH was a defenseman factory because of Trotz as much or more then drafting for a decade plus. What impressed me the most wasn't his cup in WSH, but what he did the first year with NYI just after Tavares bolted. How would you like to have Miller leave - and have a boost of a plus 53 differential! I'd sure like that. And Tavares well Miller isn't Tavares. -
For sure. I don't think it affects things the same way it did back when our team was on the edge of greatness like it was back then with MG either. That team was already very good. As soon as we signed Luongo things changed. Amazing goalie and deserves the HHOF. Too bad the Sedins didn't peak earlier but it happens ... if they did then we'd have been a powerhouse. Was mostly cracking a joke. One guy like Miller is totally fine.
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If the team can sign Miller for less then 8 and for five years i will start bowing now. Unless that includes a full NMC and we about to start this rodeo all over again, but this time instead of a final appearance just one playoff round lol. Miller gets his air time because he's earned it. I'm ok with whatever they big brains decide needs to be done. And will cheer for the team regardless. There are a ton of great ideas floating around. Funny thing ... it rarely goes like anyone thinks either. Maybe that will start changing with Allvin. Sure didn't with JB.
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I'm also taking about Wendel Clark. and Bobby Clarke ... he was my first favourite player growing up (Bobby) Because i was a kid and thought his smile and hair was b!tching. I get the history of the game from the 50's and up thanks to my parents generation and the books i've read about it. Not an expert. But can say the death of the enforcer had serious consequences, as did more then anything salary disclosure and further expansion as far as entertainment value goes. Bench clearing brawls growing up were common lol. Get the instigator rule and why it was needed and also how it was fiercely combatted by some traditionalists as well (the rats will have free reign lol ... didn't really happen did it?). Price of progress. The league would be much better off with 24 teams as far as product goes. 21 league team isn't called the golden era of hockey for nothing. Way too many teams miss the playoffs - and the league took decades to approach the quality of play as well. People think the athletes are way better today ... well maybe then the 70's - but absolutely not the 80-90's. They are not. Easy to trace back. Iginla wasn't good in the 90's... Lidstrom was ok but not top level yet. Dead puck era was a result of expanding and putting too many plugs into circulation. And a regular season game back then was worse then most post season games now as far as how players were treated (and most wasn't called). Change takes time. Fighting your way into the league is long gone (literally). We want to talk about toughness. Well the NHL looks like approaching what the Euro leagues are like now in that respect. So where are we going to get it? It is a generational thing. Not their fault - it's "progress". My final answer is what we have is what we are going to get. Enforcers are gone and won't come back (and i'm not again talking about goons there is a difference). The only saving grace is some people have that gene and some don't. Schenn does obviously. And like i said before - it only takes a few to get the rest to man up. The game is still the best in the world despite the change. But this "toughness" subject comes up every single year on the CDC ... because even the younger generations saw more of it if they were around since 2010 or so. Both on the team and in the league. Those guys have mostly aged out or are gone. Gadj was a throwback ... why i was so dissapointed to see him go ... Burroughs looks to have it too, and Schenn was a pleasant surprise for me at least. Edit: And on Clarke. If you knew him or watched him play he was a super-star - but also played a lot bigger then he was because he had protection. Which was my earlier point. For folks that remember, he was a rat himself too...did crazy stuff because he knew he could do whatever the heck he wanted and the entire team would back him up. Wouldn't that be great for EP? Or QHs. It sure would.
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Those guys have also left the league unfortunately. For a couple years you'd be hard pressed to find a better D in any era then Pronger at his peak. A lot better then Lidstrom. Was an absolute beast playing in EDM. On a better team not much later won a cup. Iginla was the last power forward we might see for a long time that makes the HHOF. Not trying to bait the younger generations, but i just don't see that coming out with the guys now in their 30's or the ones coming in now in their 20's. Benn maybe but even he's not close to Iginla great. A couple fights doesn't make him Iginla, neither does a couple good seasons. I'd love to have either of those guys on our team right now. They just don't exist anymore though. Rod Langway and Larry Robinson, we're the only other D's that i saw defend as well as Pronger could at his peak. Simply outstanding. Was pretty decent in the O-zone too.
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Huh? Probert and Clarke could play the game too you know that right? Who would you rather have on your fourth line ... Domi (who could also play the game), Probert ... Clark wasn't a goon at all lol - a power forward all 5'11 and 200lbs of him ... They don't have to be ancient history. It's just that this generation simply isn't willing to do what they did. Bobby Clark was protected. And as a result could play his game to its fullest. That's also my point. Same as Gretzky. IF Crosby didn't have to deal with what he did - the transition period - he'd have been safe with a Semenko on his wing. He didn't have that and almost had his career cut short. Gretzky even said that in his book. Now the " new and improved" system is locked in. But the product simply is not as good. Both for the fans and the players. How many hand injured occurred after the enforcers and goons left the game? It used to be a code violation. It got so bad that the league had to crack down heavy on it ... probably already forgot that right? Crosby took Methot's finger off - everyone was doing it. That didn't exist in the game before like that anyways. You won't convince me that the game is better off without power forward like Wendel Clark, Rick Tocchet, Cam Neely, Shayne Corson, Kevin Stevens, Shanny, plus plus plus plus plus ... Probert and Domi could easily play 7-10 years in this league at their peak playing fourth line minutes. Which now is around 10.
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How about all of the above? Pretty sure we see tough when we see it. Tanev was/is tough ... got injured a lot while here but look at his game. Edler and the Sedins were tough in the Swedish way, anyone who can push their bodies the way they did are tough. Most hockey players in general are tough. But there definitely is layers of toughness. You don't get a name like Tiger if there isn't something to it. I believe - and i maybe i'm just talking out my ass - but believe that a lot of older posters, ones who have been around for at least the 90's but even back to the 70's when Slap Shot was made to make fun of the way the game was played then. In other words it's "tough" at times to watch players skate away without even a scrum, and it's "tough" when Jay freaking Beagle is the only guy going into scrums on a regular basis - when he started he wasn't a tough guy really lol. Just a gritty middle six guy. I think it has a lot to do with generations. Baby boomers and Gen x players, knew their role and played as if their lives depended on it. Rivalries existed. Certain teams hated other teams. The "average player" was pretty darn tough in all the ways you described. Know the games changed. And factually it was bad for the game when goons came in just to have their 4:00 minutes of ice time. Of course the fans loved it - but that's not an enforcer. That element of the game is almost gone now. Well it is actually completely gone. Even power forwards are all but non-existent. Wilson that's about it. Used to be 20 or so of those guys around for decades, that could go to-toe with the toughest of the tough. The game isn't the same. It's got no redline. Eliminating a pass in that zone for sure sped the game up. Hitting which used to be an art form is now tentative. And for good reason - almost entirely because of Matt Cooke, but he wasn't the only head hunter. Stevens ... wow. Doubt we will ever, ever see a hitter like him again. Back to power forwards. Guys like Shane Corson, who wasn't even a power forward really, would destroy most guys in the league today. Then you have Roberts (go watch him beat the tar out of 230 pound Ben Eager at 41 lol), who did run McLean 3 times in one game back in 94 .... a level up but not much. It hasn't been that easy as a fan to watch the game change. This is the first season since the 90's at least that a bunch of players made it to 100 points. And the new generation of defenseman finally look to be something like i was used to watching. League bloated to 32 teams. From 6. Since expansion. Expansion brought the enforcer into the forefront, was absolutely a good time for the fans and the players (ask any of them who played back then and they'd say they simply loved having them on their team...Probert's all-star game every single star was waiting in line to meet him and shake his hand ... ). All this complaining about the reffing. Well the league went from right wing all the way to the far left. Big brother is supposed to take care of the players. But the game is still the game, and you always need something to fill in the cracks. Back to team toughness, personally i think it's simply impossible to have without at least one player towing the line, and the easiest way to get that is with one or two guys that play the game on a different wavelength, one that involves protecting the group not just themselves. Schenn for sure has this in his DNA. A lot of guys do - most of them become soldiers, fire fighters or policeman. Girls too just to be gender fair. Edit: Finally my main point is IF you have a guy or a big (can also be a little brother!) who's got your back and you know that - going into the corners and giving a little sneaky butt end stick to the ribs or an elbow in the liver or extra shove or whatever (stuff that doesn't get called) everything gets elevated. For me at least, team starts and stops with whom you've go in the roster who's willing to go there. Tyler Minors has this in him too, not his fault he's freaking so much taller his hits and plays don't always work out. I like this team. Adding some "toughness" is never a bad thing.
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All you need is one enforcer and the players around them play tougher. This goes all the way back to Bobby Clark and that team. Roenick on when Probert was traded to CHi..."just seeing him on the bench makes you feel two feet taller" .... Sure CAL is loving Lucic right now. And having Gudbranson gives them another nuclear deterrent. Who's going to run Markstrom? Someone might still but odds go way down. We don't have anyone really - Schenn at least has spent the time to become a better fighter but he's not intimidating anyone that's for sure, well maybe a little as he's getting a rep now at least (early on he was mostly a punching bag when he dropped them - but that's also the way the leagues trending as a whole)... Wish that Miller and Horvat would throw their weight around a little more. Garland plays with heart but he's tiny lol. Has tried to fight before and he was no Smyl. At least it's a pretty balanced team by todays standards. You can't find that many teams in the league that you'd look at and say - "whoa now that's a tough team"... CAL is probably the closest.
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We lost too many one goal (and empty net ones - so two goal games in some cases) because our PK was just downright terrible ... both special teams were actually. It's unfortunate. Part of that is just how massive of a roster chance we had, part of that is coaching, and part of that was, for whatever reason 2/3 of our young guys just didn't come in ready to play. Amazing to think we were 20 games in and on the way to setting a record for the worst PK all-time lol.
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Hey i was talking about this six months ago. Used some memes about what we thought Miller would get us (Arnold flexing) and what other teams think we will get (Natcho Libre) ... there is still nothing wrong with a first, a grade A prospect and a roster player (lower cap hit) ... Nothing wrong with a five year deal either. Oh and as for those irons - most are tweeners that won't work out you know that right? Podz has the best chance. And hey this guy wasn't all bad either:
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There is zero reason to think Miller won't get us a decent return at the TDL - the draft or in the off-season as a RENTAL. Look what some of these guys have got over the years and not many approach what Miller can do excluding his last season - and even the ones before he came here. Bottom line is a first, a roster player (probably one year left but maybe two) and a grade A prospect is the expectation. Not from us - but other teams media's that wanted Miller. TO's guys were their two best prospects (former 15th overall - Kappenen deal and a second rounder who is their second best prospect), Kerfoot and their first. Maybe we should have taken that deal but we don't need forwards do we? Edit; I agree no way are we getting Lafrenniere etc etc that's just dreaming.
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I really pushed for that on this site all last year "just wait - all the cap is going to go away soon enough blah blah blah blah"....and said Pearson all year long was low hanging trade deadline bait. Then JB did his thing and signed him to a better deal then i thought we'd get with him ... team friendly enough to make it ok. I was fine with losing Guenther - but if Clarke slipped to us i'd have been pissed. At the time what we dumped was worth a lot more (as in we should have paid more) then we actually did. Wasn't a horrible trade .. without any context. Of course things didn't work out. Too much roster change and we lost 80% of our forward PKers.
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Woah. Not sure being a fan like Deb is toxic. Not hers or anyone on this sites fault that they could see some good/great with the bad and even if it was all roses (and only Greens fault, which a few are latching onto) who really cares that much. Most of us supported Quin..not many Keenan, a lot did Burke, Nonis and MG. What's really that wrong within showing your support anyways. Being right doesn't matter that much does it? JB didn't walk into an easy job. He wasn't all bad and he wasn't all good. Pretty straight down the middle considering. Wilson's health saved him the same fate Holland got in Detroit. JB was always going to be a fall guy without a couple miracles. "8 long years" (that included a 7th finish overall and the bubble ... doesn't that make it kind of a little less .... sure a lot of other teams suffered a lot worse then us then since the cap era lol).... 32 teams. Half make it half don't. All of them at different points in their cycles. Im not defending JB because it wasn't the best route. And Allvin might be gone before we see a better one too. Unless the league brings in the play-ins full-time i'm not going to be that shocked to see other teams actually go 8 or more years without a playoff appearance. Like CAR (9), EDM, Buffalo et al. Sure teams like TO and NYR a make you think it can be quickly done. Better hope this time out our commander in chief doesn't clause everyone including support players like Hansen this time through. Or maybe we could be so lucky again to have such a good team .., who knows.
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Yes one time would be glorious.
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Yes. After the JB era and some big mistakes made especially with free agents and properly bottoming out, this team needs a very careful, methodical approach to fixing things. Excellent drafting will be a must. Glad they started with cutting some of the dead weight off. If an amateur scout can't hit or isn't producing that's some low hanging fruit. They don't disclose those things but it's safe to bet the ones let go didn't have a good draft record. Maybe Benning Jr did - but that is also understandable, removing remnants of a former regime is usually a first step (and at least unlike Royals - they don't go around killing the heirs from the last king after a coup lol). Looking forward to seeing what they do this summer. They have several paths. Most of that is based around what to do with the guys that MG locked in just before the team exploded (Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa, Luongo etc)... those guys were on shorter deals for the most part (not Luongo)....and got max value the first four years or so of them ... we aren't as good yet though. But unlike that team - we have younger possibly even better pieces coming up in EP and QHs.