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Everything posted by IBatch
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RU Vedder? I can't tell.
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Thought it might be fun to bring this thread back. Funny reading through it ...some posters sure turned on "Brockstar". Others not so much. Vedder wasn't around back then, showing his age or a duplicate account maybe lol. Anyways shame on some of us. Brock i hope is back next season, same with Miller. Like to see what this team can a manage with EP lighting it up ... and some core ascension.
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Dude what games are you watching? Wasn't Chia a regular on the first unit with Green for awhile? I sure remember the screaming. Aside from a small streak near the end of the season almost doubling his stats, Chia has been bashed around on this site all season. His injuries for sure are a concern. Team needs to pay him like a 50-60 point player. If they can't or won't, take him to arbitration. That's more then Garlands making BTW. But not much.
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Leafs wish they could say that. Reality is CAL built a team that was almost as good as the Oilers. They pushed each other. The rare time EDM slipped, CAL was right there to pick up the slack. Lost in 86, to a lesser team with a better goalie. Won in 89. 117 points pre loser points is like 127 now. Leafs haven't even won a series lol. Yet. Edit: If your too young to remember that - maybe your remember how awesome Detroit was. Couldn't win anything. COL was on par with them - got pushed - lost in 96 and for 7 years they met in the playoffs and 5 of those times they won a cup. About as close a comp as EDM/CAL... EDM of course just had Wayne. But even won without him. CAL was still a top team in 94. The Leafs have one or two years at most ... You couldn't find 15 teams all-time better then that CAL team. Probably have a hard time finding 8-9. That monster 90's Detroit team (they were a top regular season team for years before they won in 97) was ranked 8th best all-time by THN (and picked 2002 and rightly so as their best team ... only MTL dynasty had more HHOFers on it) . COL after CAL (even though CAL only won one cup). Only team to make the top 25 since the cap is CHI and PIT. That's it. But i expect the next time they revise it, that TB makes the cut. 94 NYR made it too.
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Would you re-sign JT Miller to a 7.5m/7yrs extension?
IBatch replied to billabong's topic in Canucks Talk
Maybe maybe not. He'd get quite a few votes though, probably get some even though we missed - if we didn't he'd get a lot more. Our record when he scores and when he doesn't is something. Our team blew for 1/2 the season, Demko sorry, he's slid maybe it's just the workload but he's not our MVP and hasn't been for a over a month really. I still think your missing my point. It was an example of a player people thought (experts) was going to get a monster deal. Given his age, and what he'd just done (Hall). If Miller doesn't get more then 80 points again ... well he's also a one off isn't he? Not everyone gets what people think they are going to. Some get a lot more - some get in the range of expectations, and some get less. Taxes often play a part in this as well. But not always. And Hall did have a better pedigree that's undeniable, another reason to be wary. We need to be wary. I'm fine with a 5 year deal. Six? Tough . -
With the exception of the 89-96 team and the Keenan implosion i'd agree. We had a team that almost beat a top ten ish all-time team in the 89 Calgary Flames. Without the Oilers they'd probably won 3 cups in the 80's on top of 89. Quin dismantled a very deep team. Not elite but deep like the Blues are now. Keenan of course - well if Messier fell in line and Bure stayed, was the best team we've ever had on paper and it's not really even that close. Oh and i do agree we lost some things we needed depth wise. That said unless becomes a legit regular not enough to worry about. Boudrias i would have been fine if the team was blown up in 2014. Those 3 years were a mistake. GM had to honour the deals, but could have made it awfully hard for them to succeed and not spent to the cap. Maybe then they'd have bolted before their value was just seconds and B prospects.
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Would you re-sign JT Miller to a 7.5m/7yrs extension?
IBatch replied to billabong's topic in Canucks Talk
Your still missing the point. Hall and Miller both have had Hart worthy seasons - if we made the playoffs he'd be a finalist. My point is "here is an example of someone who thought they'd get a massive deal but didn't". And absolutely he had a bigger pedigree. And scored more points as well. Can argue against that until your blue in the face lol... Miller didn't get first line minutes until he came here - Hall was getting them as a 19 year old. Not his fault EDM f!cked that up and didn't insulate him properly. Good thing JB did that with EP or he'd be following the same trajectory. Almost did anyways. Miller was a 15th overall ... he's peaking. Maybe he gets injured second game in who knows. But agree he's probably for 5 years left in him. That's it. Best case. -
Would you re-sign JT Miller to a 7.5m/7yrs extension?
IBatch replied to billabong's topic in Canucks Talk
No. There are worse things. Like signing him to a 7-8 year deal he never will live up too. Or trading him for someone who Allvin and co thinks is going to break out and signing him to a crap deal. It happens often enough. -
Would you re-sign JT Miller to a 7.5m/7yrs extension?
IBatch replied to billabong's topic in Canucks Talk
Horvat has taken it on the chin since he's arrived. Pearson and LE his often linemates ... one year of Brock. Whom i think is probably the odd man out. One of Horvat, Brock or Miller needs to be traded yes. Maybe Garland but think he's a gem. Good 5 x 5 a pest and draws a lot of penalties. Put him on the first unit instead and it's probably not a net loss either over Brock. Just glad it's not me making those tough decisions. Also feel the sample size needs to be extended into next season. I'm 100% ok with a playoff run and Miller walking. Figure that's good enough. Also fine with signing him until he's 35. 36...well maybe not maybe ok. -
Would you re-sign JT Miller to a 7.5m/7yrs extension?
IBatch replied to billabong's topic in Canucks Talk
Wow thanks for some sanity. Like i've been saying, i doubt any team is willing to give Miller a 7-8 year deal. Maybe 6. That's about it. And if it's ours well we are just dumb to go there. At most i see 9 x 6. He's not getting a 60 plus million dollar deal. Not from a team that has any sense anyways. -
Would you re-sign JT Miller to a 7.5m/7yrs extension?
IBatch replied to billabong's topic in Canucks Talk
Guy just won a Hart trophy and played on some really tragic EDM teams right off the hop. Who would you compare Miller too then? Duchene? Skinner? Hall was drafted as a first overall - that's a better pedigree. He also had over 600 points in 700ish games when he was up. And most importantly, what do you think Miller is going to get? He has 431 points in 634 games....so so ... Your missing the point too. I gave an example of someone who was supposedly going to get the moon but did not. -
There is only one common link with cup winning teams that i've noticed the last 50 years. Top ten goaltending or at least a goalie that's playing like a top ten goalie (Murray and Binnington that's you lol). The other common theme is elite talent in key positions - with the exception id say St. Louis. They had much better teams over the years that didn't win a cup . Before anyone starts going "cap era" on me - once salary was disclosed in the early 90's ... well guess what - both 97-98 Detroit teams were middling payroll teams. 2002 yes lol ridiculously bought cup. So the 90's count as well when looking at who won, who was close etc. Since that occurred Roy won a cup with a middling team. Gigeuire almost did as did Hasek. Thomas did. And Quick did his first cup and was key their second cup as well. Murray and Binnington played like top goalies as well. Before that Ranford was the main reason EDM won their last cup as well. And of course there are lots of examples of a top five-ten goalie winning a cup since then too. Broduer. Roy. Ward. Vasilevsky. MAF. Osgood (he was the favourite on Detroit IF they beat PIT again). Crawford. You simply won't win a cup without a top ten or hot goalie. And your odds go way way way up if you have a top ten goalie. Demko? Hard to pin him down yet. Top 15 sure. Top ten? Maybe, probably. Good enough put a check mark beside that for now. After that's done it's elite talent up and down the lineup that wins the most. Roy won in 93 with a middling team - we don't have a Roy so let's not go there. DET/COL/NJ/CHI all had that. LA didn't really ... Maybe Doughty and Quick at the time that's it (elite talent up and down the lineup). Then it's generational talent. That's where PIT/WSH comes in. Maybe EDM next (as long as Smith keeps it up lol - pulls a Hall/Plante/Sawchuk). And finally - our best hope - balance and depth. Depth actually matters a lot - as does strength down the middle which we for sure have. Our strengths right now are center depth - likely a top ten goalie, and our age. Decent balance and hard to say yet about our depth. Wasn't so bad this year really. That said it's going to take Demko more then anything else with this team to win a cup. At least the way it's currently built. I like what Bruce said "try and name 5 teams with better centers" ... that's our core strength, plus Demko and the age of our team. We are a young team. In two years ... that's when the most damage will be done. I'm hopeful they can pull it off.
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Would you re-sign JT Miller to a 7.5m/7yrs extension?
IBatch replied to billabong's topic in Canucks Talk
It depends where he signs. With us maybe he gives us a little break given we were the team that gave him the chance to play in the top line. But those big fat pay cheques down south where he is from would be hard to resist. Dallas, Vegas, Seattle, TB, Miami... we are talking an extra million a year when it gets close to 10. He's given up millions since he arrived too. Over 2 by the end of next year. Back with MG was running things our taxes were a lot more even. Not anymore. Gaven Group if anyones interested. Plug in a number and compare the teams. It's also why AP made more moving from St. Louis, same offer. If we think Miller doesn't have dollar signs floating around in his brain right now we are probably delusional. Seems like a good guy. They all do until they aren't. Cap era isn't as fun as it could be. Wish they modified it a little. Edit: Top 20 forwards are all paid 8.7 and up ... Crosby is 20 - then 9 plus ... 3rd/4th contract legacy deals don't usually help a teams cap structure IF there is too many. Right now we have one in OEL. That said he's probably only costing us about 1-1.5 per year so palatable anyways. Myers i'm more worried about what we do without him lol. Like Edler's last deal, i'm ok with his. We are probably wasting more money on Poolman and Dickinson. OEL/Myers playing against the best in the world and all. -
Would you re-sign JT Miller to a 7.5m/7yrs extension?
IBatch replied to billabong's topic in Canucks Talk
Not happening. Think Miller has been 17ish, 40ish then 9th now in scoring since he arrived. He's averaging around a top 15 point producer and is useful. Played LW/C ... is good in the dot, and pretty decent intangibles. Last one to sign was Duchene - he got 8 x 8. He was younger. Miller might sign this summer. If he bets on himself and scores close to 100 points again lol...his stock is going up. -
Would you re-sign JT Miller to a 7.5m/7yrs extension?
IBatch replied to billabong's topic in Canucks Talk
Yes. The teams that can afford him, aren't likely contenders either. Rather teams like us. Also think there are maybe four other teams in the league with the cap space and with cores around the same age as ours. Those are the teams he will be the most interested in if he wants a cup and doesn't want to go to a bottom feeder ... looking for a marketing guy. Teams won't sign Miller likely if they are starting a rebuild or about too (or should be like SJ). Wilson is taking a break so not him lol (but it happens). Look at Hall for example. Better pedigree ... where was his monster deal? Didn't happen. Then look at Skinner lol. Ugh. Personally feel it's going to be somewhere in the middle of the extreme worry, and won't be less then 50 guaranteed money either. He's earning his next deal. But who knows. It's not a science...that said the companies that predict this stuff are usually pretty close. Within 100k of Brocks last deal for example. -
Would you re-sign JT Miller to a 7.5m/7yrs extension?
IBatch replied to billabong's topic in Canucks Talk
Every single team in the league would line up for that deal. He's going to get 8.5 x 5 at the very least (and that's a contender low tax state). Probably 8.75- 9 x 6. A little bump to pay for extra taxes from and tiny cap increases. Zin and Hertl's deal minus his age. Take him until he's 36. -
Those are the best trades in club history. Funny - back when we added Mogilny, i figured we'd be right back to the final. Bure AND Mogilny? Plus Gelinas heating up ... young guys like Walker and Ohlund in the wings. Not keeping Ronning to make room for Gretzky .... and then the consultation prize in Messier. That team was all in their primes, turns out Peca for Mogilny was a fair trade and that Peca instead of Morrison would have probably been better too. In other words there are tons of trades that weren't nearly as good as Linden, Bertuzzi and Butcher. Quin traded a lot of guys though, basically the entire 80's roster. And he hit big with Lumme, McLean, and Butcher.
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Iginla played a much tougher game - as did Roberts, and well a whole pile of guys that fought often enough too. Really it's a who knows situation .. Hank and Daniel were good on the boards too, don't really see what Miller does they they didn't also do other then of course he's stronger. Marleau...Thornton - don't want to just use HHOFers so how about Kunitz? Miller has proven to be pretty durable. One thing that he does have is more miles on his body then some given it didn't take long to make it. There are enough guys out there that played as hard as Miller did that also had 17-20 year careers, not worried about that. Same could be said for anyone who's contracted until they are 36-37. I don't think anyones arguing Millers last couple years will likely be anchors - on a six year deal. The next five certainly the value would be fine.
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I got one for your. Or close to it. Stastny was making almost that playing for Vegas as their 3rd C. Also Tyler Johnson in TB. Actually think you need to look further. Quite a few teams invest down the middle. JT Miller was 5.35 as the 3rd C as well. Good 3rd line C's make a lot more then plus minus 3.5 ... 5 is not at all silly really. But yes ... i suppose 3.5 would be great value. Top paid C's in this league past around 64 are 4.8 million....
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Every year - a few teams in both conferences end up getting screwed out of a team game based on this. It's completely ridiculous. Even though this year we are likely on the wrong side of it - i wouldn't care if we were on the right side of it either. It is a sham. LA and Dallas are not as good as us. I'm fine with luck playing into it. This isn't luck though. One other thing. Growing up with 12-16-21-24 teams ... and most of them making the playoffs, and given the new norm is close to a decade to sort your crap out, on average - it's time to make another change which was what they did with the play-ins. Reduce the number of games back to 80 ... even 78 if they have too. League wins. Fans win. Players win. I bet they'd increase revenues by 25% and sustain them. Hard to keep butts in seats during a rebuild. Hard to keep butts in some seats once they are out too. Everyone wins in this scenario.
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That's one way to do it but would hate to throw away 100 years plus of stats (not that we haven't already done that since the lockout - especially for goalies)..... Plante and Sawchuk would both likely have 500 plus wins. Osgood probably 450. I just think it's time to change it back to ties. Teams play for the safe point anyways. And 3 x 3 is just a keep away drill now. Silly. Shoot-out is dumb. Never liked it. Undue stress on the goalie as well. IF they need to keep those things - then keep the 2 point system. Don't weight them the same though. Penalize teams for going to OT. So 1.5 for OT win .5 for OT loss. Would just prefer they got rid of them both personally. There is nothing wrong with a tie game. It's a sign of our times - someone has to win, and the loser still gets a ribbon.