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Can the Canucks afford to let Chris Tanev walk away?
IBatch replied to Patel Bure's topic in Canucks Talk
Darkindianrises why don’t we start another thread about can we afford to let Markstrom walk? If Tanev has his best season yet I doubt we’d be even talking about to this right? I will start. First off we will save maybe .5-1.00 million from Markstrom current cap hit to find a capable veteran on say 2 year contract like the one Allen recently signed (there was a time not too long ago he was considered top ten too). Well plus his raise of course. 2 x 2. Maybe more then a million who knows. (Plus his raise) 2. Demko stays - no more ED worries of losing him for nothing and he becomes the new “goalie of the future” and at 24 his age works with the young core. 3. Sign Tanev - flat cap to a one year deal- that should work. 4. Give the raise to JV with the Markstrom savings also one year bridge 5. Let Leivo go, and trade Roussel. Use that money to sign TT...he’s not going to make 5 x 5 anymore ... 6. If more cap is needed don’t sign Stetcher and do a Fatenburg or Benn like deal on the right side. The only real movement in this case is the goalie and swapping a third pairing RHD but adding TT. We can’t keep everyone that is obvious. Guess it comes down to who do we need more. Hard to know for sure. Still think we should trade Pearson, let Leivo walk, trade Benn, let Stecher walk and sign the rest. JV could play on the L side - plus we still have Ferland and Bear. Can’t think of a better way to fix the cap - and it’s only for one year. After that we will shed a lot of contracts - unless EP gets 100 points have plenty of money to add too (after next season)...and we’d still have LE and Luongo in the bank for later. JB has some work to do but I certainly understand why he doesn’t feel we have any cap issues. Losing Pearson would suck but we have the replacements already and TT is a modest upgrade. Do you think we will re-sign him anyways (Pearson)? Bet TT wont get better then 4.5 x 4 in the current market too. If he wants much more we’d be better off going after Hoffman or Dandanov. And in this scenario yes of course all the guys includes Markstrom. -
It showed his maturity level. After thrashing WNP ok - not a thrashing but a hard won series we played LA with Gretzy still at the peak of his powers in 93, went six games including a double OT loss in game five and he asked WG for his stick after a 2 goal one assist performance (Gretzky ... how many points did he get on us over his career? More then Horvat probably has scored in his career so far ha ha) in the handshake lineup. Fans didn’t like this ... what really screwed us over was how cheap ownership/management was, after a 38 goal season Nedved finally looked like he was coming into his own ... his agent was asking for 3 million- a huge amount for the time on a second contract ... we offered half that or so and then reduced the offer the second time. It blew up when St Louis offer sheeted at 4 million... we wanted Shanny in arbitration got Janney who refused to report and finally settled on three guys that we wouldn’t have made the 94 run without - Brown, Hedican and Lafayette...which turned out ok for us. Nedved made trouble later in his career too...but it’s understandable why fans were disappointed- especially given his draft slot.
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Norris Trophy finalists unveiled
IBatch replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in General Hockey Discussion
Unless your “the perfect human” and the panel just HAD to give him one last one before he hung them up for good. -2. Think they just wanted to say well now he’s in Harvey and Orr territory...and has more then - Borque who was a better defenseman in his 30’s then Lidstrom was in his 20’s. If there ever should be an asterisk in the record books it should be there. And while they are at it put one on Perry’s Hart trophy too. Highway robbery for D Sedin and I’m not just saying this from a fan perspective. Perry was having a typical Perry season until the last month, nothing special but pretty good. Then he caught lightning in a bottle and scored like 23 of his goals in the final 15 or so games. Impressive for sure but Hart worthy? Not at all. A hot streak shouldn’t get you the most important regular season hardware. Meanwhile D Sedin carried his team when H went down ... not a good pick. Lidstrom was worse though. THN has used Perry’s award to make a point that not all Harts are equal and also thinks those that voted didn’t pick the right player. -
Norris Trophy finalists unveiled
IBatch replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in General Hockey Discussion
I voted Carlson but i really think he’s the third best of the group (if I could have anyone on our team it would definitely either be Hedman or Josi). He’s like Mike Green was when he piling up the points - great offensively - below average defense. At least when Karlsson was top ten in league wide scoring three times and winning (and once not winning when he should have) Norris trophies his possession stats was so superb and he was such an impactful player (without him OTT was not very good - he made them good) it was very deserving ... Defense needs to be ranked higher like it used to be. After all sn’t that what it’s all about? Things changed once Orr arrived. Although at least Langway was recognized for his superb defense. Guys like Potvin, Robinson and Borque IMO are the best examples of what a Norris winner should be like - Pronger in his prime too and even prime Chelios. Just beasts on both sides of the puck ... all Norris trophies are simply not alike - and at least twice since I’ve been watching the wrong guy was awarded it and it wasn’t even really close. This year it should be Josi, Hedman then Carlson. -
I thought it was his head...like it got too big too fast
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Selke Trophy finalists unveiled
IBatch replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in General Hockey Discussion
McKkinon says hi too. -
Selke Trophy finalists unveiled
IBatch replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in General Hockey Discussion
I was thinking the same thing while bringing up Gainey (the guy that inspired the trophy). Carbonneau was also like that...Tonneli was great too and scored more points but couldn’t keep Gainey from winning it - while scoring 31,38,33,47 points the first four times. Like Sutter on steriods. Also won a conn Smythe his defense was that good - over a murders row of possible sexy candidates... and 5 cups. -
Selke Trophy finalists unveiled
IBatch replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in General Hockey Discussion
That’s Gainey...if your so good at something you inspire a new trophy and then win it during the twilight of your career 4 consecutive times then you’d have to give it to that guy. Plus he never was on a scoring line. He was a 40 point player keeping 100 point players off the scoreboard. There are a few others like Ted Kennedy before him that would have won a lot of trophies if they existed before as well. That said Bergeron will definitely go down as one of or the best ever I’m sure. And yes if Horvat keeps it up he should definitely end up in the conversation as a finalist - the team around him also needs to get a little better as his plus minus needs to get a big bump first too. -
Bure was the most exciting player we’ve ever had for sure. Don’t re-call any other player making the entire arena stand up just because he got the puck on a meaningless shift .. was like watching a player get “shot out of a cannon” - that’s a quote from Letang on how fast he was with the puck - his favourite player growing up too. McDavid can’t even do that ... whenever I watch the footage I still get excited. The definition of a game breaker ... seemed like every shift he could change the outcome of a game. His goals were mostly amazing even the shooting ones ... but when he had the puck on his stick he never really dangled - he deked at such speed sometimes I was embarrassed for the opposition. In an era where hooks and holds weren’t called unless a player fell down for the most part...wonder what his career penalty shot percentage was too? Some excellent goalies back then .... and in international play he was unreal too ... lead the 1998 Olympics with nine goals. And scored close to 60 back to back on a so so Florida team in the deepest part of the dead puck era...for me he’s one of the best goal scorers ever - and definitely the fastest skater all-time with apologies to McDavid. He’s regularly ranked that way too. Special player. EP has potential and maybe one day will could even score 120 and win an Art Ross. Love watching him too. But I also thought Nedved had a lot of potential - still a little early yet to know for sure.
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All I can say only Linden and Bure had a bigger immediate impact on the team then BB...and EP and QHs had better seasons then BB. Linden came in as a winger and had his best seasons production wise until matched up in center to play against Otto. Then became more of a two-way player. EP did came in a year later but switched spots right away (thank god Miller’s there to help - those who are hot in trading Sutter maybe should consider what that could do to AG).... Point is we have three of the top five all-time best starts by Canucks ever on our team right now. Naslund took years ... same with the Sedins. Same with Bertuzzi. Hope is that means when these guys peak they could shine even brighter - if not that’s ok we still have them for a longer window... The team drafted arguably better from 1979 through the early 80’s ... however 79 was also the best draft group ever and it’s not even close and the other years are top five all-time too so I’m sure that had something to do with it. Under JB - over six drafts it’s pretty hard to find a better period - and it’s not like we drafted that high in any of them either. The team wasn’t so good in the 80’s either and back then 22 was a second rounder so edge definitely JB.
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Can the Canucks afford to let Chris Tanev walk away?
IBatch replied to Patel Bure's topic in Canucks Talk
It would sure be nice to have a guy like Mitchell on our team right now. Or Murzyn in his prime (plus skating ha ha). Someone who will punish guys for coming into our zone and going into the dirty areas. Feel that’s what our right side needs (more teeth) and hope that our long term RHD replacement for Tanev or Stecher can do that. Was hoping Tree would be that guy and maybe he will next year (with the state of Covid in the US doesn’t seem that surprising he stayed at home). Tanev on one year deals going forward should be fine for a little while. And I’m almost certain that’s how things will go. -
Can the Canucks afford to let Chris Tanev walk away?
IBatch replied to Patel Bure's topic in Canucks Talk
No way the team will offer more then two years. Likely one. So I don’t think that’s anything to worry about, his play itself shouldn’t deteriorate much over that sort of timeframe. And on the bright side for the first time in awhile it’s to the teams advantage to get some RHD prospects in there to get a look at their development so missing games isn’t bad either. See us him signing a one year flat deal. Also see Stetcher not getting re-signed and a cheaper option signed for one year - like Benn or Fatenburg last summer. Our right side is in a holding pattern until one of our prospects takes over Stetchers spot and until money opens up in two years to sign a top four vet upgrade which will become Tanevs long-term replacement. It’s possible the team would go with Rafferty but don’t think they will yet. -
No doubt. Cap is the issue for sure and I doubt many fans have the stomach to let Markstrom walk (let alone TT who some seem to think is the second coming of ...____ fill in the blank.) or Tanev and TT or whomever. That said I 100% agree age matters and we definitely need as much of our prospect pool intact to help create cheap cap relief for the team if we ever will truly compete with this core....otherwise we will have to resort to a lot of the same old same old. Well actually a lot LESS of the same old same old - goodbye depth. If JB has 7 guys he thinks can play in the NHL they are the ones we need to start coming in - maybe in groups of 2 or 3.... TO played 6 rookies not too long ago - we could too. I don’t care one bit about losing a lottery ticket next year for Miller - he’s worth every cent. I do think that we could be looking at one more down year before we get over the hump and might as well just get it over with.
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Everything you said made some sense until you mentioned LE. Demko is not enough to move LE sorry. Hate to say it but you could be onto something here. Agree Stecher is likely too steep for us now ... and Leivo too simply because we have enough contracts and need to shed some. I was thinking we move Pearson because he’s not a cap dump...but this has some merit too. Really I think a lot depends on how well the team does this post season. The longer we can hang on and the more heroes we have the better the chances cap dumps start looking like hockey trades. Personally I’d rather keep JV then Pearson given the age difference and the cap hit (he keeps it up and he’s going to have some interest next off season for sure). JV can play the L side too which helps in case Ferland goes down .. plus we still have Bear who was over a PGP player in the AHL this year. The biggest concern I have with this deal is AG needs a lot of work at face offs still and another year with Sutter would surely help with that. Don’t know what team could afford both Sutter and JV with nothing back other then picks and prospects too...likely something would come back our way that would count against the cap hit...
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What does this even mean? Can’t afford TT? Agree on that. Afford BB? For sure we can. Why would we sign TT when we have BB - younger option - already proven he can outperform or outproduce him. A lot of fans need a serious reality check - how many UFAs get their money and then just float? Well we have some on our team already and could give you a lot of other examples. TT is a luxury MAYBE we could afford a season from now. Absolutely plus something else the following one
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He’s not going anywhere- well maybe Utica. I’m fully prepared to not see him leaving until his contract is done. All these silly Demko and LE to OTT or DET proposals are borderline delusional. The next two years are going to be tough but we will get through it. It’s not like we have 4 players taking up half the cap either (hello TO ha ha ha ). Do we have issues? Sure ... but they are manageable. NO cap dumps. Accept TT is a rental. Get on with it.
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Yep. Slight chance he stays.
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[Proposal] VAN, DAL, DET cap dumpin 3-way
IBatch replied to The_Rocket's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
A few things - I absolutely agree we shouldn’t be trading Lind. He’s a forward we will need to replace someone with to help with our cap. Don’t want to trade JV either. Even at 2.5-3 he’s valuable. As far as Detroit goes they do have two prospects - one they and other scouts are high on in the college circuit. And they haven’t written off Larsson yet either. The best deal I could see with Detroit is Demko for Petruzzelli and a second. The cap dump would be Demko and that’s it. Stetcher has little trade value if we don’t sign him (which I’m pretty sure will happen anyways just for cap reasons). Another club just had to wait for us not to sign him and gobble him up like LA did with Hutton. I like Demko. Met him two years ago in Laval (he was injured but came out while in lineup to buy some beers) - he’s a stand up guy and anyone who ends up with him could do very well. Goaltending isn’t a high return trade at the best of times...Lack for example. Or Nilsson after a .920sp in Buffalo for us. Sure his age is a little better ... but not enough for a great return. I figure a second straight across will be about the best we can do under the circumstances. Edit: Demko will be 25 next season - with a career sp at .906 and a GAA of over 3 and 5 more wins then losses and OTL over 37 NHL games. Personally I think he’s more valuable on the team and at the very least a sacrifice which suck but it is what it is. We could also walk away from Masrtrom, trade Pearson or a Roussel and sign TT and a capable vet to teach him the ropes. Or keep both and give a little more at the ED so Seattle takes a different player. -
[Proposal] VAN, DAL, DET cap dumpin 3-way
IBatch replied to The_Rocket's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Detroit is pretty high on Petruzzelli - Demko is ahead of him as he’s now a proven back-up ... Bernier is definitely going to finish his contract and be their likely starter so acquiring Demko works well for their ED draft scenario. It would be a big gamble for them though - Petruzelli is considered a high end prospect plus they have Larsson toiling away in Grand Rapids. Their goaltending depth isn’t so bad they need another guy like Demko (unless they truly believe he’s a future starter - do you?) With the ED looming Detroit for sure is the right target / but I doubt we are getting as much as Andersson got - he was was a better goalie at the time and had better upside then Demko, by a fair margin. Figure into the fact that 10-12 other teams are also going to court Detroit so they can weaponize their cap space and the ED (for sure Yzerman knows he have us over a barrel) the return won’t be much. Consider too then we have to find another back-up who’s cost may or may not be the same as Demko ... likely not but it could also blow up in our faces. Maybe they’d swap goalies but that’s about it. And then we’d still be faced to look for a veteran back-up. Consider this scenario instead. We let Markstrom walk. Reduce our cap hit and find a vet to split time with Demko. There is absolutely no way that Detroit would do this deal - even without the ED looming and Covid. Your overrating Demko’s value. It’s just as likely he becomes a career back-up or fades away as he turns into a regular NHL starter. A gamble I doubt Detroit or OTT or anyone makes under the circumstances. Of course i could be wrong - and hope I am ... but don’t think I will be. -
[Discussion] best and worst case scenarios
IBatch replied to canuktravella's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Not a bad topic but one thing you are not considering is anyone who goes down to the AHL is replaced by another player. The league minimum kind of caboshes much savings. LE goes down best case is 300k. The league minimum is going up so even that is in question. Best case IMO is we sign JV, AG, Tanev, Markstrom and TT without jeopardizing our future. The only way that happens really is if LE mutually cancels. Otherwise we have to accept that best case is TT just a rental (no way JB would have made that deal if Markstrom and BB weren’t out). Even IF LE retires we will still lose a little depth - Leivo for sure and maybe Stecher. Why don’t we wait until the playoffs are over. A lot can and will change when that happens. Stocks will raise and shrink etc... -
[Proposal] VAN, DAL, DET cap dumpin 3-way
IBatch replied to The_Rocket's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Demko by himself is worth around a high second. They would ask a lot more to add LE to that deal, like a first, Lind and a 3rd, we get the second back for Demko. That’s about it. Detroit is the obvious target for 10–12 other teams like us looking for some wiggle room. Better get in there right away otherwise the pain could be extraordinary. Yzerman is a very good GM and I’m sure at least one team will get fleeced - and hope it’s not us. Edit: and not to be nit picky but Demko is no longer a prospect. He’s a proven young back-up with some upside. Detroit would be going full tank mode if they went with him more then 50/50 next season ... maybe that’s their plan though. -
[Proposal] VAN, DAL, DET cap dumpin 3-way
IBatch replied to The_Rocket's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
This is one scenario that seriously deserves some consideration. I’d hate to lose Markstrom in his prime - and don’t at feel he won’t provide top service for the next three years at least. However goaltending is the most fickle position- just ask Florida fans. IF it meant we could sign the other guys including TT without any major cap dumps it’s a worthwhile conversation. Figure it won’t be enough so Leivo and Stetcher go too - plus maybe Roussel with one million retention should be enough to sign a vet goalie for two years around two (that’s what Allen recently signed for) who we could then expose in the expansion draft instead of Demko. I think Markstrom is too important to let go and would prefer we didn’t go this way ... that said I do wonder how the team would have done with both TT and BB in the lineup with Demko at the helm. No way is Demko peaking yet - he will get better. -
[Proposal] Cap Dumps and Finding Team Fits
IBatch replied to Phil_314's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Not to mention Melnyk has already said he wouldn’t be spending to the cap again for a couple years while he’s rebuilding. 2 million is still 2 million. Plus LE is taking up a roster spot for two years and he’s got a load of picks and prospects who could be playing in the next two years. And vets will be lining up just to play for a lot less then they would normally be getting with 1-3 year deals until this Covid thing goes away. That said I guess it really depends on what we are willing to give them for the pleasure of two years of LE. Personally I think we just need to bear down and get over the next season. A lot of change is occurring and with so many vets up on our own roster we could be in a good position to get over this. Players will be signing smaller deals. Much smaller in many cases because teams simply can’t afford to pay. The better players will do alright - but a lot of guys and I feel Tanev will end up in this category given his injury history - Benn like deals might be the best they can find. Just maintain the status quo - accept TT is a rental. Next year we would have the money for a guy of his caliber - the following year we could go after the best RHD available like we did with Myers last season. That’s what MG did. Ballard, Hamhuis and Erhoff at their cap hits isn’t much different then 6 today percentage wise right?. Edit: Also want to add the further we go in the playoffs this year - the higher some of our expensive placeholders stock could go up. It’s the Beagles, Ferlands, Pearson’s, TT, Millers, and Sutters of the league that usually shine come playoff time. -
[Proposal] Cap Dumps and Finding Team Fits
IBatch replied to Phil_314's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
The only problem with this would be if he’s still the best 4th line option - as soon as he no longer is he’s going to Utica and likely never playing another NHL game. If we sign TT somehow and keep JV it writing is on the wall unless he can play the left side. -
For me the cost to keep TT just keeps getting higher and higher once we adding cap dumps to help save what - in this case 1 million dollars next season? He will get a short bridge that is closer to his actual value (20/20 over a full year at 1.5 is a total steal, especially in the bottom six for the most part). JV, Madden a second ... to add 1-1.5 at the most in possible cap savings doesn’t make any sense to me at least. JVs cap contributions should be safe even in the 2.5-3 million range - and actually helping the team at that range too. Pearson and Roussel are the low hanging fruit. We should be looking to trade these guys first before trading away our youth. Ferland and Bear should be able to manage the L side in their absence. Same with JV actually - worse case move him to the L side he’s capable of it. I see Pearson and a Roussel both being traded to sign everyone ... that’s the actual cost to sign TT and everyone else...steep isn’t it?