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IBatch

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Everything posted by IBatch

  1. Could be worse too...like what Patrick Swayze did to that bully on roadhouse ha ha. Philadelphia players got charged for their antics one game here in Vancouver...they wore everyone hates us but we don’t care mantle better then any team before or since. The league was deliriously happy when the Habs came into power - thanks mostly to Robinson clearing the flu out their locker room. ANA cup was a throwback team - closest thing to the Flyers that I’ve ever seen. Burke didn’t have enough pugilence in his lineup so went out added May at the deadline...Moen, Pronger, Thornton, Parros etc etc wasn’t enough. Was penalized more then 3–1 their entire run but had the PK to match ... probably one of my favourite teams to win a cup the last 20 years ... fun to watch them. It was evident the first few shifts OTT was in way over their head.
  2. Gretzky managed to actually get fear into his blurb on that - said if he saw Potvin on one side he skated down the other side ha ha ... he was known for being a guy who hit to hurt. On the summit series - it was always hard to watch that even as a kid and think what’s the fuss? The 80’s Oilers looked way better.... Thought it had to do with the grainy footage slowing things down or the tape not quite on full speed or something but when the grown ups spoke of it with reverance the hype was infectious. On the series your watching - Shero did a a masterful job with the Flyers in how he asked his team to play Boston - no way would they beat them in a game 7 at home given how many times they lost all year (Close to zero) .... same with what he told them to do playing the Red Army... He told his team to keep putting the puck in Orrs corner (which at the time was completely counter-intuitive - the players themselves thought that was crazy) and gradually ground him down/wore him out over the course of the series. Equalizing Orr was their key strategy - the Big Bad Bruins wouldn’t lose on intimidation Shero that on other teams brilliantly though. With the Russians he told his team to hold back on the the physical stuff that would get them a penalty - instead just pound away at them with hitting...the Russians left the ice between periods and refused to come back (and they didn’t even get the animal version of the flyers) until they were told they wouldn’t get paid unless they finished the game - they lost of course (after destroying the rest of the NHL teams on the way). Russian papers made cartoons showing the Flyers as apes with huge clubs instead of sticks ha ha.
  3. The two guys Gretzky feared most were Denis Potvin and Clark Gillies (getting hit from). Both those guys started their careers in the 70’s ... and Gretzky played until 1999 including when players got bigger and bigger. If you think players hit harder now then maybe sleeping on the 90’s a bit. Stevens and Lindros especially were brutal - watched 20 minutes of Lindros hits recently I forgot how great he was at it - guys literally flew 15-20 feet into the boards on some of them. Also whenever I watch old hockey one of the first things I notice is how everyone is finishing their checks and giving a little extra shot. Today’s game is tamer IMO and has been since the lockout in 2004.
  4. Man. Wendel Clark and Williams were sub 6 feet and 200lbs and did pretty good - you either know how to fight or you don’t. Bieksa and all of his 190lbs and sub-six feet (ok maybe six feet) beat the tar out of Marleau at 6’2” 220lbs ... Kocur who’s regarded as the hardest puncher in league history played at 6’ 205 lbs. Why the obsession on size? Sure most bigger fighters that are good at it do better. Gino was only 210lbs..tall and lanky. Domi 5’9 is generous... Fun thing is you can trace back who beat who all the way back.
  5. Howe scored 40 ish points as a 50 year old in what 1980? Spend some time and look at your hero’s and see how they did against the next crop - and how they did against the ones before them. As far as fighting goes well I’ve watched 1000’s of them and Brashear was one tough SOB but also rarely opened up and went toe to toe - instead hugged the other guy an pounded away at the side of whoever’s head and helmet. Probert called them butterfly kisses compared to the shots he took over his career. Said Crowder was the best he’d ever fought. Really who did he ever ko? Nobody. Brown did way more damage- so did Kocur - so did Shultz and even Stan Jonathon. The odd time he did open up its was 50/50 when it was a heavy ... Belak, Laraque and some big farmer all fed it to him. So no I don’t think your hulk meme is accurate. Shultz ... well guess you need to watch some more footage. Still think your underrating that team, it was very tough and had a lot of skill to go with it. Sure maybe in some multiverse we could create a team to beat it. But it wouldn’t be that easy. Like I said earlier / Sedins getting beat up every game until they quit doesn’t seem far fetched. Five for fighting - no ejections etc. No misconducts. If you couldn’t fight back you couldn’t play in that league period. Edit: As far as hitting goes I’d recommend watching some Lindros footage...swear he creamed Stevens about ten times just as bad as he got hit ... it’s devastating stuff.
  6. Oh ha ha. I’d agree if we didn’t have Brashear or maybe Odjick in the lineup it would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight / but the other way around and even then we might be in trouble. PHI had 4-6 very good fighters on their team all the time. Plus the entire team got into it and had majors year in year out and never backed down. I don’t think you truly understand what the game was like back then. Babych was like Tim Horton - a league strongman who didn’t fight. Yes Butcher did and he’d do fine. Williams fought some of these guys he’s a must have IMO. Jovo? Well yeah he beat Deadmarsh but lost to better fighters too. Ohlund had like two fights his career. Snepsts is a must. Bertuzzi couldn’t fight his way out of a phonebooth despite his size. Kelly would clean his clock. Kurtenbach would do fine. Linden couldn’t fight and Courtnall was marginally better at it. Momesso could and would be a must. Point is back then without the instigator anyone was fair game. Sure there was a code but PHI used fighting as a tactic. Seriously it’s an interesting story and worth looking into. Yes we would need some skill to beat them especially with Parent in net. They’d test us first scrum and if we gave an inch they’d take a foot.
  7. That’s Philly team was tough as nails - fighting ability and size have nothing to do with each other - you can have both or maybe not. Parent was one of the best ever too. When these guys aged they still did fine against the next best group of guys - who did just fine against the next group of guys (now we are into the 90’s) who did just fine against the next group of guys (now we are into the Sedin era) - so I don’t buy much about talent getting better and better as time goes on. Skating maybe on average but the league doesn’t ice the same sort of bottom six guys anymore. I don’t think your giving that team enough credit. They beat Boston who was one of the best teams ever (Orrs team, who like Bure is considered one of the best skaters ever), and they were the only team to beat the Red Army who came in and toasted one NHL team after another until facing the Stanley Cup champs. They didn’t call it the Philadelphia Flu for nothing .... not only is it considered a top ten all-time team, it’s the toughest of the bunch. Maybe watch some documentaries on the team - there is some excellent ones. Parent was like Roy or Hasek back then. How many HHOFers did they have anyways? And they had some very good players that didn’t quite make the cut too, plus their bruisers could also pot 20 goals in. Like I said - not sure how the Sedins would react to a full on beating - sure we’d have deterrents but so did every other team they played back then. Ten pounds here or there and one or two inches in height doesn’t mean squat if you can’t fight back. Edit: To give some credit where credit is due - the MTL dynasty took their crown but they were still contenders...right through that dynasty and into the next one in 1980 against the NYI - under Quin set a record that will never be beaten in today’s game (not ties anymore) 35 games unbeaten and six games into the final ... we’d be so lucky to contend that long and like I said they beat the Big Bad Bruins on the way to their time at the top too - no small thing. All four of those teams are considered top ten all-time teams - PHI is ranked 7th, one ahead of the Detroit teams of the late 90’s early 2000’s. Wonder how we could create a team to beat those guys? 2002 had something like 10 HHOFers on it ha ha.
  8. That’s a pretty balanced team - and toughness is what you need in the lineup against these guys. The only line I’m unsure of is the Sedins line - would they get murdered? Bertuzzi wasn’t much of a fighter and not very good at it when he did. Almost wonder if we’d be better off breaking up the Sedins or if they should be there at all. Fraser is a good option as a spare or even in the lineup - Brashear is a requirement so agree he should be a spare. Kurtenbach is probably the biggest answer to Shultz.. That defense assures at least one additional bruiser is on the ice all the time - wouldn’t change it. Also given Parents career sp is above .920 I think we’d need to answer with whomever had the hot hand - McLean is a great first option given his penchant for playing better in the playoffs. Love the fourth line - clutch. Really the only line I’d worry about is the Sedins - how would they react with no instigator rule and machine gun Kelly or Shultz or whomever knocking their blocks off just to take them out of the series? Edit: Neely and Fraser could score goals and fight while with us - two guys I’d consider. Also Mogilny could play left wing too - did on the Federov line with Bure so maybe instead of the Sedins add Kesler and Mogilny?
  9. Maybe. But the Orca unfortunately looks like a corporate logo ... thank god Quin would have thrown those suits up into the rafters before allowing them to change the name to Orcas too. Did Ceasers change Detroit into a Pizza? Nope. I get it - young folks can’t understand the old uni’s - Bieksa and Kesler begged to play in them though - why? Because they were awesome.
  10. I’m not saying any of this you completely misunderstood my post. What I said is there are other options - and that I didn’t agree with that path - which is we could trade Horvat or Miller - get a first back and lower our cap - and that it was one step forwards two steps backwards. Also you also misunderstood the LE comment. IF it was one year left on his contract - just like Marleau’s - would cost us a first as a cap dump. It’s a proven cost and if LE wants to finish his contract out it’s possible that will be the cost. Yes I know about LEs actual cost. That doesn’t matter much despite what people seem to think. His cap hit is what it is. If he doesn’t want to retire and wants to keep playing that is his right. Sure we can make supposition and a million trade threads to OTT because we all know they would love to have him to help make the league minimum. Which they won’t have much trouble at all doing just singing or re-signing their own prospect pool and with who they already have under contract. The point I was trying to make is we won’t have much difficulty signing TT and Markstom and JV and Tanev or his replacement even with LE on the team. But we will have trouble the next season if he is still here and wants to keep playing. As in a first rounder then. Whoopie f!cking do. We don’t have cap issues right now. Nothing pressing like contending teams have anyways. We won’t lose a marquee player (like TB and WNP did ). We might lose a pick and a prospect but not a big deal... All the vets will be gone in three seasons or less.
  11. Well 50-60 maybe in the top six. He’s made Sutter somewhat expendable but he’s not as good defensively yet or maybe ever either. I agree we need to trade some vets to trim the cap so we can re-sign guys plus maybe add TT if the deal is fair (read that some think he’s worth 6.5-7 which is so absolutely crazy - have people already forgotten about the LE deal? And he had a history of putting up a lot more points) which to me is at most what Miller is making 5.25 x 4). TT isn’t breaking out at his age folks. Expect 3-4 more years at his career average and then regression best case scenario. 40-50 point guy but a goal scorer which is valuable. We’d essentially be adding a 20-25 goal guy which is what you should expect of your top six wingers. That’s what LE was supposed to be right? Point is yes we need to shed some vets - so we can afford to pay our young guys first - and then look to add and roll the dice on similar vets that we are shedding and hope they don’t disappoint. It happens ALL the time. Blue chip UFA vets are almost all getting overpaid for past production- and once they get their “legacy” deal 50% approximately fall straight off a cliff within the first year or two of their deals. Okposo. Skinner. Duchene. Foligno. Ladd. Lucic. LE...it’s a very long list folks. For me I’d rather go to the top tier and get a guy like Panarin...still even then some of those guys don’t deliver all the time - Benn and Bobrovsky last season for example. But it’s definitely way less common. Point is TT looks to be a good add - hopefully if we do sign him he won’t lose his desire to play at his best every night as so many do. And I 100% agree we need to focus on the band we have before looking to plug the holes we do have. Manson is a reasonable target - but not for Brock. We’d be better off looking to replace Tanev for free with another UFA, or just signing him.
  12. This is thinking outside the box but not sure what the actual trade is. Is it Gaudette and Stetcher for Getzlaf and Manson and salary retained? Well we all know that’s not enough. So maybe it’s Gaudette and Brock. Love Manson - he’s a veteran that’s most likely going to age like fine wine. Mitchell 2.0 possibly for us and he’s RHD. I’d trade AG for him in a heartbeat. Getzlaf is probably going to the HHOF...one of the best centres of his generation given his intangibles (not just a regular top ten scorer in his prime - but a leader and tough guy to play against etc). I see him as a future rental more then anything else - and he’d definitely get a first in return. AG might also be enough for him on his own depending how high ANA is on him ... 33 points in 68ish games is nothing to sneeze at for a third line center - in his second season. Brock for either of these guys is a non-starter. We need youth in our core and he’s a key member. If Manson was the same age I’d consider it - ANA would have to add quite a bit for me to consider that. A first rounder for starters. That would be a fair trade - not good but fair. Now here’s the crux of this proposal that been overlooked. No way we could afford TT as well - his money is going to Getzlaf let’s say ANA retains 3 million to make it fair there. So the cost of this trade also includes him. Or we lose Tanev instead. I’d say we’d be a better team in the long run by staying the course with the guys we have. AG has some upside to eventually maybe become our second line center. He’s scoring at the same rate Horvat was in a similar role with less to work with. Some nights this year he was our best player. That’s what you want and need from the youth in your lineup- same with JV (some games he was our best player too). I like that line exactly how it is. With Ferland or Roussel the grit is good enough too. Yes absolutely Getzlaf is an upgrade - however he’s often injured now too, maybe in a lesser role he’d be more durable but it’s a risk from that viewpoint too. But only for a year or two then I’d say it’s a wash based on age (AG for Getzlaf). This is the sort of move you make in two or three years when the teams contending and you want to go for it to add depth and improve the lineup etc. So the timing is also off even if we could afford it. This deal means no Brock and no TT unless Manson replaces Tanev, and we get a modest bump on our third line. That’s a lot less goals...so hard pass.
  13. The team might have no other choice if LE refuses to retire and wants to play out his entire contract. They shouldn’t have too much trouble adding TT, paying Markstrom, raise to JV and re-signing or replacing Tanev - but even that is going to cost us something - picks or prospects to take Bear and Roussel off the books to fit them in. When EPs up LE will have to be traded. Or Miller or Horvat. Which actually is another route to consider. We wouldn’t lose a pick - we’d gain a pick. But we’d also take one step forward and two back if we went that direction. Until Luongo and LE are off the books this team has a thumb pressed stiffly on its neck capwise. The bright side is : hopefully that means no crazy contracts including to TT or other mid-star range UFA forwards (defense - we might need that) and the money is safely put away for when we will need it the most.
  14. We can sign those guys with or without LE in the picture - maybe with a modest cap dump in Bear or trade Roussel or both ... Leivo is obviously gone too. We can also play with a shortened bench or with less players depending on how tight against the cap we are - think that’s what TO did this year. It means we lose a bit in depth. Bears agent is pushing to get him back on an NHL team...yes we tried twice to get a bite and nobody did. Hard to say how he will do it and if he will even try with all of them but it would sure be nice. Tanev seems the odd man out given his history but then we’d need that money for his replacement. If LE won’t retire at the end of this season then we’d probably have to do a Marleau deal then.
  15. If there is no playoffs then picks based on this shouldn’t have to be honoured period simply based on that language. A lawyer would pick that apart with ease. Don’t see why teams should get punished more then they already have. Most of these deals are on expiring contracts anyways right?
  16. Absolutely. Really we or Canucks management shouldn’t be worrying about it too much - in the big scheme of things it’s a drop in the bucket compared to real time problems. I’ve resolved myself not to care either way. Miller is a keeper - we wouldn’t get that sort of impact without a franchise player who excelled as an 18 year old. Look at Podz for example. A lot of experts had him as the third best pick - we got him at 10 and won’t see him for two years and it’s very unlikely as a 20 year old he’d have the same impact is Miller this year. Maybe we only have him for four years - but that’s the equivalent of six for almost any player we could draft. And way better then most. Makar too two years ... we are still waiting on OJ and on JVs breakout season.
  17. No. We won’t ever win the first overall it’s in our DNA. A lot would have to do wrong for that to happen and I personally thing that our team will continue its upward trend despite cap issues and whether or not we improve our roster. At some point the young guy have to start clicking in a bigger way. All three of BB, EP and QH have shined at certain times and they are all far from peaking. Miller’s best season is no coincidence. I also feel our vets are feeling the internal pressure and will be playing hard for their next contract or their Swan Song with a playoff run. We have an abundance and potential in the system both with older and younger players. Yes JB rolled the dice with JT Miller - it was shocking at the time - since then I’m 100% behind it and you can bet that 30 other soon to be 31 other GMs would be happy to give up a lottery pick every year to get those sort of immediate results even if they ended up losing out on a first overall. If it was only that easy to get a guy who puts up those points every year right away on an excellent point per dollar basis. JB or whomever is running this club can do that every single year going forward and we’d be a contender in short time forever. PPG plus guys with intangibles don’t grow on trees for 5.25 ... wish our entire top nine was loaded with them then we’d look like the 80’s Oilers and be sending 10 guys to this all-star game each year ha ha.
  18. I have an idea - like the thread title suggests why don’t we talk about whom we should pick assuming the season is over and we are a lottery team. Who’s available in the 10-19 range that looks good? Do we draft a defenseman first or go for a forward who’s not going to take as long to develop? And if it’s a forward should we be considering a center (think so) or a winger? I’ve read so many times on this site that this is the draft of all drafts - suggesting that even second round picks are like regular drafts first rounders (I don’t believe that for a second but what if I’m wrong ha ha...I’m not). Pearson has done great work for us and Hoglander is coming and Podz is coming so I believe wingers are sorted even if we don’t sign TT. What we need is an eventual Horvat replacement at this point - even a Sutter or Beagle one too. Our defense pipeline is also weak or could be better - so would be cool with playing the medium to long game and nabbing whomever is available L or R side BPA (defenseman) too. Edler won’t play forever- Tanev might be done with us - and Rafferty, OJ, Rathbone, Woo..well you’d think two of those guys should work out but I’d say even odds none of them do. Thoughts? A lot of HHOF or just really really good and players have been picked in the middle of the first round ... who should we be targeting and why?
  19. Did some digging in my hockey books and decided to go with what THN hockey historians said about Dickie Moore (who they have ranked 11 th best all-time player for the habs..almost all of their top 33 are all HHOFers - good grief) They said one of the best two-wingers ever to play the game. His 96 points in 58-59 were the most ever at the time (guessing in 72 games but didn’t check). 594 points in 654 GP for the Habs. Considering the murderers row of HHOFers they have listed after him I’d have to agree with the superstar handle he had during his playing days. Other L wingers on their list are Aurel Joliat (18) who they said was relentless, tough and a goal scorer (1922-38), Bob Gainey (19) who we’ve talked about, Toe Blake (22) Steve Shutt (27) and Frank Mahovlich (29). Also some a tier below in Mats Naslund, Ferguson and Olmstead who I’m sure would make the best top 50 by position all-time. Moore was ranked ahead of Savard, Geoffrion, Dryden and a bunch of others with cup rings and HHOF resumes too. Pretty sure the guys that do this for a living would have Moore in the top five. Also have to wonder where D Sedin would compare to these guys - if Moore is higher and that much higher can see he has a very good argument to be ranked before most L wingers including Daniel. Edit: Their 50th player is Patches...562-209-202-411 ... ha ha. Wonder where he’d be ranked captaining our team ... top ten in goals three times ...
  20. I knew the left side was weak but not that weak ha ha. For sure Naslund makes it in then ... possibly higher then his points. Yes to Gainey moving up, he never scored that much but also wasnt on the PP much and always played against the best players of his time. Gilles i was happy to see get the HHOF call, his PIMs would suggest he wasn’t mixing it up much but that was because nobody wanted to fight the guy...his only decisive loss was against Ben Wilson, and he more then made up for that his second go around (thanks to Bob Nystrom insisting he get that monkey of his back) - one of the best power forwards ever. Shanny id have ahead of D Sedin despite his lack of personal hardware - cups matter...lucky Luke and Goulet not sure. Shanny is a little like Howe with the rare combination of skill, durability and pugilence. Moore is a tough one / from what I’ve read he was a superstar in his era so he should probably move up. Hard to compare eras but you can just by going from generation to generation and who played well against the next crop, and who they played well against all the way to present time. It’s much easier to go from expansion all the way until now. Jagr and Iginla played in the 90’s until the 2010plus right? If a 38 year old Gretzky is getting 90 plus points in the dead puck era just before retiring against some of the best in the 2000’s then maybe he really is great right ha ha. Other then Bure, Naslund, D. Sedin and Luongo would make the top 50 cut probably Mogilny too. Haven’t checked the stats - maybe I’m missing someone ...
  21. Didn’t mention Luongo simply because he’s retired but for sure he’s making the top 50 goaltenders all-time. Chara is one of a few defenseman of his generation that also might make it - Burns, Karlsson, Doughty and Keith are the others ... maybe Kane too. Edit and yes Thornton is all but a slam dunk...put huge points in the dead puck era and made the Sharks one of the best teams the past 20 years despite no cup. edit; Think D Sedin also would make the top 50 for L wingers - H. Sedin probably not given the competition is much stiffer...Naslund also has an outside chance too
  22. Best all-time by position top 50 for each would keep us busy for awhile too. Would be interesting to see who’s playing now that might be worthy. Crosby, Ovi, Malkin, Lundqvist are slam dunks of course...but who else ?! Edit: And would be interesting to see what former Canucks could crack the top 50...Bure for sure.
  23. Best by position would be fun to do. I have BB near the top for his - well because he currently is. For defenseman could do right side and left side - QH and Edler should both make the top 30 there ... Myers ... hard to say but would put things into perspective for guys that think that’s an albatross (it is not). Or we could do best all-time by position which for me at least would be more interesting...as long as Lidstrom doesn’t go before Harvey, Shore, Orr, Potvin, Borque, Coffey id be ok with that ha ha.
  24. Still another year before Podz plays here .... a lot could happen in the time. Maybe he has a bad year - or maybe his offense starts matching his motor and Peter Forsberg 2.0 is on the horizon ha ha. More likely he makes modest gains and comes to camp after next season and gets a tryout. Don’t think he’s likely going to displace anyone until he’s had some games. Ideally we make the playoffs and he gets some games after his season is over...that way JB has the summer to make a trade to fit him in IF he’s ready. Always try to make your team better and a reasonable TT signing would allow JB to make a minor trade in JV (a bottom pairing D maybe) or a blockbuster with BB in a year or so. As long as the return is fair I could stomach that. BB could break out - but even now it’s on the early side... He’s much better off keeping Boeser and hoping he plays an entire season and scores lots of goals then making a trade this early. I think Miller EP BB could be a top three line in this league in two years. TT gets a bump playing with those guys but not expecting a PPG out of him, best case Horvat/Pearson like numbers over an entire season. BB on the other hand - has the ability to score 40 goals in this league and think he will one day. Maybe even next season - he should be 100% then.
  25. That’s his game - middle six forward is my best guess. His best quality is along the boards and getting the puck or possession back. He’d have been a perfect line-mate for the Sedins possibly, it looks like that’s his best case scenario - a complimentary player to a top line but not the main component. His game also screams center and he’s getting some time with that so that’s also in the cards. If he can make the switch then he’s probably going to be our third line center with an asterisk- as in Horvats long term replacement and Sutters short term one. Best case.
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