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Everything posted by IBatch
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Are you seriously doing this? Smyl was a respected leader around the league and any team would have loved to have him. I can think of several (players from his era ) actually. Can you?
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It was one after the other after the other ...Weekes was also supposed to be the next one. Back then Skudra and Auld game Cloutier a run for his money and before Clouiter it was even a bigger mess which I think made it both harder for fans and management to justify waiting for him to take the next step instead of cutting the cord and quite possibly going back to a Snow, Burke, Potvin etc situation. Was a merry-go-round before Dan - which surely exasperated things. And really he was a true number one - just not the one the team really needed at the time. Didnt make things easier with Kipper and Giguiere or even Roloson doing their thing in ANA, EDM and CAL around that time either.
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Good post. What happened didn’t stop me from making the effort to get to Vancouver once or twice a year but it wasn’t the same and really now is still a sore spot. After the initial shock I was excited about Messier - he did just come off two great seasons on year scoring 48 goals and at the time anyways didn’t appear to be close to slowing down - the next Howe and all of that (who had his career years at 40). Without Ronning our second line needed a boost and we had two of the best wingers in the game - plus Gelinas who was no slouch either. After 94 and even 95 which was a strange half year I felt that the team was going to get many more chances (which really it should have given the age of the core right?)... One of the things that sucked was I loved Messier growing up - he was a truly amazing player - skated like the wind - tough as nails - could deke and score or just kick off like he was starting an old hog and place it top corner. Didn’t forgive him for Momesso - but was willing to give it a go with him. I didn’t be-grudge NYR that much - they were the best team in the league for a couple of years which said a lot given how good PIT was...and Messier was a Hart winner legend and all that - in other words they were a top opponent and we were the underdog that almost did it (Rocky right?) that played .500 that year. It did feel like a gut punch / but hey we just landed Messier!! Wasn’t happy with Keenan coming one tiny bit later though.. My only regret is I couldn’t help but compare the WCE team to the early 90’s one and shamefully never got behind them as much as I should have. Getting Linden back helped ... but then was like why isn’t he on the PP? Ha ha. Even at the end he great in my eyes - I questioned Naslunds leadership constantly - and Bure for Jovo was hard given at the time he was winning or would be winning multiple Richard awards on a crap Florida team. And don’t get me started on Cloutier - that was almost unforgivable by management. Glad Burke came in and ousted Keanen in relatively short order...but he should have gone out and signed a proven vet - the entire hockey world knew that our goaltending was suspect but we did nothing about it - even though we could swim in the deep in with the big fish with him. Same with Morrison to a certain degree. Didn’t like that trade either - but happy Mogilny went on and won a cup in NJ.
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Games In Empty Arena's, Would You Buy Pay per View?
IBatch replied to Lazurus's topic in Canucks Talk
I’d watch games all summer if I could - can still do those others things too - even at the same time ha ha. Really if it came down to it I’d support hockey with some pay per view games if things get bad and that’s what they need to do to keep things going. Sure these guys get paid which a lot of people don’t make in a lifetime in one year - that said owners can’t soak it up forever - and the players would be willing to work for peanuts compared to their normal salaries too I’d bet - better for them then trying to find a job in the markets to come...don’t see it that much different then supporting local business - the exchange is well worth the entertainment value right now. -
Discussion: If you HAD to move Podkolzin....
IBatch replied to J-Dizzle's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Why in the world would we do that? Podz hasn’t played a game in the NHL yet and isn’t known for his offense but hopefully will make it and improve in that area. He’s a tenacious forechecker - ie likely a middle six player...as far as “keep signing these guys” go - well we’ve only got three marquee players so far and BB is one of them. Was top 5 in scoring for R wingers when he went down - not sure what more your expecting from him and as far as 8 million goes I hope that is the case because if he gets that then good times for us. Seriously think that he’s earned a top six spot at this point - he’s career PGP so far is impressive...and he’s going to get better and he’s showing that he’s not just about goals too. Players don’t peak their rookie year - well ok it’s happened twice that I can think of but one of those was Selanne - the other Gomez- both keepers. 20/40 goal scorers don’t grow on trees you know. How many years did it take Naslund, the Sedins, Nealy and Kesler to bloom? Yes he’s had some fluke injuries - so did rocket Richard - bet MTL is happy they didn’t give up on him as quickly as too many fans on this site have. edit: as far as TB goes - not sure what you mean by that - are you suggesting we trade BB for Palat or Johnson or one of their expensive vets and a pick back? Kind of counterintuitive given what you say about the future of our cap right? -
Absolutely keep it up. Overall I’m happy with the guys on the list mostly made it - and made peace with the fact a few won’t make it in. Just hoping after Lanz Fraser, Oddliefson and especially Murzyn given time served don’t get bumped out.....wonder what new or recent nomination will gain steam this time ... Erhoff? Raymond? Lappy? Ha ha ... or maybe JT Miller.
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True (those four teams) but Detroit’s salary for their first two cups was middle of the row (don’t know about the others) which is a little surprising giver their roster in 97 and 98. That said it bloated to unreal proportions peaking in 2002 - they had six forwards that any team would be happy to throw out on their number one power play .. For me what separates Naslund from almost any other player we’ve had was that he was the most dominant athlete by position in this league for three consecutive years - and the only other player not named Sedin that won a Lindsay/Pearson award....three consecutive first line all-star awards isn’t any small thing. Something Bure didn’t even manage (think he did have 3 second ones though and in all fairness R wings (Jagr, Mogilny, Selanne etc) usually match up better then L wings historically). Hart votes and a photo finish with Forsberg for his only Art Ross also count. Not sure how he would fair with the Sedins best seasons points adjusted - but think it would be pretty close for sure. He wasn’t my favourite C - but as a player his skills were undeniable and for a short time there was hope again in Vancouver that something special could happen. Given the lack of that over our history I don’t have any issue with his number retired.
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Voted Lanz - nominate Momesso...
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Canucks can only sign two of Toffoli, Tanev or Markstrom
IBatch replied to Me_'s topic in Canucks Talk
Absolutely. Not many goalies are money year after year after year. It’s definitely a balancing act - Markstrom appears to be legitimate now and his before stats weren’t terrible at all either so I don’t have an issue at all with the team doubling down on him. But definitely wouldn’t criticize a surprise move that solidified our top six or top four pairings and went with a solid guy like Halak who just signed for relative peanuts either. -
Canucks can only sign two of Toffoli, Tanev or Markstrom
IBatch replied to Me_'s topic in Canucks Talk
Can we sign Holtby instead? Just curious. Because maybe that’s the correct move. Only history will show what was the wisest thing to do. Simply can’t believe how much love TT is getting over a dozen games. Wonder if you took every guy in a Canucks uniform and their best 12 games how awesome that would be. Maybe just maybe TT has already had his / as you know he’s fighting for his legacy contract and who wouldn’t give it all for that. My expectations for TT, IF we sign him - is that his he won’t take long to get to his career average. Maybe it’s not a coincidence that last contract was also a career year ... happens often enough - well really it happens all the time. LE, Foligno, Neal, Lucic, Okposo and so many other guys say hi. -
youth versus vets direction benning should go
IBatch replied to canuktravella's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
All we need is a Messier type to push us over the top. Iginla’s gone for awhile - maybe we should go after Bergeron? -
Greatest Canuck to Never Play for the Canucks
IBatch replied to Kevin Biestra's topic in Canucks Talk
Whoops. Yes that would have been something else. Imagine him centering Mogilny and Bure ha ha .... wow. -
Greatest Canuck to Never Play for the Canucks
IBatch replied to Kevin Biestra's topic in Canucks Talk
I went with the coin toss...but got to say Beezer would have been a huge shot in the arm (second)... -
Yep...he was a great Canuck for sure. One of many players on that team (and most of them are already in - except Gelinas, Murzyn and one could make a case for Diduck, Brown and even Craven too) that had clutch ability ... what a ride that was. Cooke and Hansen fans notice he was wearing the A. On personally I’d say the greatest team we’ve ever had (cue the reactions ha ha).
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Great points. I hated watching the little drama Luongo started after game one commenting on the one goal Thomas let in as a routine save (felt oh brother too early to get that cocky) - following the pumping tires comments - and how he was taking long walks on the beach to clear his head for game 7 etc (ugh really? How’s that supposed to inspire fans? Going from extreme confidence to utter uncertainty) Really TMI and the entire exchange backfired in the end. About 1982 - I absolutely agree with you. That run started a iconic brand new thing for the entire NHL with towel power and if anything it should be acknowledged as one of greatest stories for a losing team ever. No McCarthy etc and yet we still went all the way. Broduer was one of my early favourite NHLers - I was too young to really know or understand the significance of what he did but I sure did hear what others were saying at the time and they thought very highly of that team and him. My two favourite goalies back then were King Richard (anyone who’s nicknamed that has to be great right?) and Pete Peters because I thought it was a cool name. So I will defer to your experience and expertise on the subject - it means more then some maybe THN writers who include some gen x (that’s me) and mellienials making a list for the boringnest or worst final ever. NYI punched a lot higher then almost any team ever at that point - didn’t they pretty much wipe the floor of the EDM Oilers their first try too? Not to mention how good PHI and MTL were at the time still too. I’m very proud of that team - even though I was still in grade school it was buzzing down to that level and I was in Victoria at the time.
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You bet - at this point we are in the five year or less range for a lot of nominations and guys available - McCarthy and Lanz were arguably better then Edler and definitely Salo - but had to wait this long to get their due.. term served definitely matters where greatness is concerned. Still voting for the above before Murzyn - who held the same position as Tanev (who’s already in) for a decade and had more intangibles, plus playoffs and also played on some bad teams too. My only point was if I had to choose between Hansen, Cooke and Momesso, I’d pick Momesso...for the above maybe Ohlund over Lanz but not the other guys. Which says a lot about the quality of guys that played for us...
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Game 7 was a team loss as much as anything - but I know exactly what you mean. Goaltending is a tough position- only a few guys all-time had the “it” factor when the chips were done - Luongo had the ability to shut the door completely and he did it for us several times during that run. McLean in game one in 94 did that for us - it was obvious we were seriously outmatched at the beginning of the series but he pulled a Roy/Sawchuck/Hasek like production and gave the team the time they needed to physically wear down NYR and claw our way back into it. Luongo won so many games in Florida that they should have lost I knew we were going to be great as soon as we traded for him. One of the most consistent goalies of his generation and all-time as well. The rare bad games were almost always followed by a terrific one. He wasn’t terrible in game 7 - but Thomas was extraordinary unfortunately. If we won Luongo would become a first ballot HHOFer..even with the shootout wins (that should be considered ties in the record books IMO) he still has over 400 wins - which for me at least is a huge case for making it in. Gold medals of course help too.
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My main man! Momesso was one of my favourite players to watch during the prime Linden teams. Hit often and hard - always involved in scrums and chirping players and watched Ronnings and everyone’s back. He wasn’t as skilled as some of the best at fighting and playing - but made a big impact anyways and scored his fair share too and was a huge leader and teammate for Vancouver. Fought some tough tough hombres - the one of Kruse you posted yesterday (a clear win for Momesso)- well he was ranked in the 18-22 range a few times as top enforcer (94-96) - Manson top 10-15 too and a Momesso throat punch permanently damaged his voice (why it’s all raspy and only speaks in soft tones)...really good in tight and with his uppercuts. Plus like I’ve mentioned before always looked like he hadn’t slept in a week and would be the last face you’d want to bump into in a dark alley. Maybe a bit if a homer pick given who’s still available - but if Hansen and Cooke can get in he’s the first middle six player that played a decent amount of years for us I’d take of the board first.
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189lbs were is the beach ball meme...or the puck one. Never seen that one before couldn’t help but laugh when you posted it yesterday- poor Cloutier. Master class at blowing things ... made Luongo’s gaffs look like Hasek was in net. At least with Luongo we knew he’d come back - often played amazing after a bad game including in 2011 final (2 shutouts in a 7 game final is pretty clutch). And also had the best goaltending display ever for us against Turco so could string a bunch together too. Cloutier was ok - and I actually didn’t mind him as much as some - but his legacy unfortunately is not a great one - both Auld and Skudra played about the same for us and they were ok but not good either (as back-ups). Wins the most mediocre goalie all-time award. Lidstroms center ice goal is up there with Smiths gaffe in EDM - up 2-0 against 2002 Detroit who everyone expected to win the cup that year after the trade deadline. We actually outplayed them - WCE peak prime was one of the best lines we’ve ever had and they were killing them. Our defense was doing a great job for us too against a murderers row of all-time greats. Was in shock watching that go in and had a bad feeling. Had the same bad feeling when TB lost game 7 and we drew Boston (well Thomas more then anything). And again with the Rome hit. Well a lot of bad feelings over the years - and Cloutiers failures certainly stain his legacy with us. Almost cried tears of joy when we traded for Luongo. At the time I thought we just won a cup - goaltending was Burke’s biggest failure for us too. Don’t know why he didn’t trade picks or a prospect and decent roster player for a veteran back-up just in case Cloutier lost his mojo at the deadlines. Bet he’s still kicking himself over that.
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Really if the league plans to finish the season I can’t see how they couldn’t follow social distancing rules and allow some fans in to see game - or even just the families of the players etc. Just have specific times when they arrive and allow them in one at a time - direct them to a row etc. If done intelligently they could phase fans into the games the same way to at least get some people in the stands leaving rows to separate them. Mandatory masks when walking around and waiting - let them take them off once seated. It’s not rocket science. Fans that have had covid and recovered....surely they should both be allowed back to work and to participate in events before herd or vaccinations have been completed.
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Nothing wrong with that - but then we should also be considering Pederson and Cassels if it’s about points only...and don’t forget Lanz and McCarthy are defenseman - with PGP are not far of Gelinas really - and Fraser did have a 67 point season with us and was a top fighter in his era - imagine Gino doing that or Brashear? Love Gelinas and have mentioned him several times...scored at a higher rate then Horvat has mostly in the dead puck era and like others on this list already (Tiger for example) - led our team in goals in the middle of the Keenan era - dark ages. And played an important role for us in 1994...will nominate his line mate Momesso...one tough cookie - best scary mug in team history with all due respect to Tim Hunter - Garth Butcher and more recently Juice. Voted McCarthy - team captain - one of our best defenseman ever (Lanz is up next another great defenseman we’ve had).
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It’s pretty close with most of these guys isn’t it ... your right to keep up the nominations and I just noticed one for Momesso who for me at least left an impression. So in the same spirit will also nominate Momesso - one of my favourites from that era.
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Great post...I have Momesso in my top 45-50 too...one of the best support players we’ve ever had .. and yes he could certainly give and take a punch. Top shelf in meanest mugs all-time ...
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Top 50 Most Legendary Fighters to Lace Up for the Canucks
IBatch replied to Kevin Biestra's topic in Canucks Talk
Good points.. the best fight I’ve found so far was him laying a beating on Otto who was no slouch in that regard - and those two bulls had a lot of bad blood going hammer and tong against each other (Otto was so good in the dot and we had nothing that could handle him that Linden was moved from the wing to center to handle him). That said the other ones he had that I’ve watched he doesn’t lose badly - wins some lose some sort of thing - however the quality of competition is a little suspect. Not as suspect as Bieksa (Otto is better then any guy Bieksa dropped them with) - still fighting some heavyweights so I’d have him in the same area. Saw your Antoski post...yeah he was a mountain of a man and would have mopped the ice with Messier. edit; I re-call very late in his career everyone paired up on the ice and whomever Messier ended up with didn’t fair well either - all Messier did was grab his sweater up and choke him with it against the boards -didn’t really throw a punch (positive because he didn’t want to hurt him) - just choked the poor bloke until his face was turning reddish purple (he was definitely a strong guy). Don’t think the other guy wanted a piece of him either it was just circumstance at the time. He averaged around 2 fights a year. -
Top 50 Most Legendary Fighters to Lace Up for the Canucks
IBatch replied to Kevin Biestra's topic in Canucks Talk
Covid 19 has and this forum has me going further down memory lane then possibly ever to get my hockey fix. Watched some Larry Robinson highlights and man could that guy skate and did he ever have some good hands for such a big guy. His fight with Shultz when on and on and on and on with him really laying it on in the end for a resounding exclamation mark of a victory (during a brawl so limited refs available). Too bad more of the older stuff isn’t available...on small guys fighting but the Jonathon fight against Habs tough guy Bouchard is a classic and I’m kind of glad it’s grainy and not recent footage. Walker vs Petit is a classic already - had his arms pinned and Petit threw a couple hard rights with zero defense available given the refs were busy his karma was exacted beautifully and Petit was also one tough hombre. Couple fights to see. Also recommend Brown highlights - same with Ben Wilson ... not as popular names as Probert and say Domi - but top fighters for sure - same with Kocur.