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IBatch

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Everything posted by IBatch

  1. True...but 10 of the top 15 did play in the last 20 years ... Grandma loved Bozek..but have to go with BB there. I’ve been a big critic of anyone suggesting we trade this guy - players like him don’t come around very often, injures have slowed his arc down a bit but I’m sure he will get it back. TT comes in hot just like Pearson and all of a sudden he’s expendable ha ha. Boeser and or Pettersson have a good argument to be in the 45-50 range... but we still have a few locks like Butcher, Ververgaet, Oddleifson, McCarthy, Lanz and Smith to get in... When it comes down to 3 seasons or less against 4-6 years ... the waters get a little muddy. But not a decade - Murzyn is close to that. If Hansen gets his due so should he. Tallon, Reinhart, Seldbauer, Halward and of course Larionov who’s already nominated come into play. When guys like Smithers and Biestra who’ve (I assume) been around since or near the beginning make cases for (even via voting) I tend to listen pretty hard. Larionov vs BB? Tough call...ones a legendary Red Army and NHLer - the other had a brilliant rookie campaign, but despite that has a ridiculous amount of flak on this site for his past two campaigns. EP - well Larionov was probably just as special at the same age - but wasn’t a Canuck then and has sold me. He’s special. But I suppose we thought Nedved was too so we don’t really know yet. Think EP should be in around 45. Reinhart is tougher but what QHs does isn’t a lot different so far and he is played one more year. Have to give it to Reinhart. Nothing at all wrong with all of these guys ... as long as someone like Oddliefson, Murzyn or Ververgaet doesn’t get bumped out (and Cooke is on this list which could do that). Teams been around 50 years / most of the great - decent players the past 20 years have already been nominated - and most are votable options of already in ... Mitchell has a case...maybe he’s an outlier but can’t see anyone else getting missed. Edit: Fraser or Cooke? I’d even go far as to say Gélinas vs Cooke. Edit: Sh!t looks like I did it again and proved your point ... ha ha. Just to be fair Hamhuis deserves the recognition he’s getting as well. Formed part of our top defensive pairing in 2011 with Bieksa...and really was a great defenseman for us - Mr. Smooth - Lidsrom-lite. THN actually had him at 26 - one spot ahead of Salo, three below Bieksa and 6 below Edler...and three ahead of Mogilny at 30.
  2. That’s a thoughtful nomination. A top ten fighter for us - with a great record - usually the little guy too (Sortini was a bad fighter but those bouts were impressive given his size). Not many players all-time had a winning record like him - Bieksa only lost 3 (crazy) but his quality of competition wasn’t nearly as good either. Brashear is one of the best fighters in league history - but I’d agree with your RR nomination - he brought a fierce courage to his team. Walker was like that too - another guy worthy of some consideration - his bloody battle with I think Petit after a cheap shot is legendary- destroyed him and kept on coming despite the intent to injure and face and jersey covered in blood. Protecting Zezel instead of Walker was the first big rift with Burke and Keenan. What a mistake that became. Rick Rypien was definitely a fan favourite, and I’m happy to see that Gino and Williams also got recognition for the toughest job in hockey. On Brashear - in over 80 fights with us his record is ridiculous... a few draws and no decisive losses. And laid some beatings on some tough customers like Cam Russel (who beat McCarty who beat Walker) so badly you’d think he was fighting Bure. His reputation got so fearsome enforcers tended to stay away (and that’s coming from them - ranked the best in the league for several years and kept it up as a top fighter right until the end tuff guys magazine used to rank them once a year - was named fighter of the year twice with us). Was named best fighter/enforcer of the decade in 2010 by THN. With us his reign of terror started - and one could argue the quality of competition was never better during his career and they just got bigger and bigger. 9 fights with Probert (who was aging and in his defense didn’t like his “huggy bear” style)...but it worked and when he did open up it was almost always the other guy on the receiving end. Had titantic battles with Boogard, Probert, McSorely, Parker, Worrel, Domi (watching him get pummelled was always enjoyable given his blowhard opinion of himself ha ha) Laraque (who he exchanged wins/draws and rare decisions with), Belak well let’s just say some very very tough men. Actually got better with age too - better at reading when his teams needed a boost. Was also a tenascouis forechecker and hitter and was usually among the lead leaders in points for enforcers - ie wasn’t a total liability. Sorry for turning this into a Brashear reply - I agree with your nomination - despite what Brashear managed while here (breaking Gino’a PIM record and winning every fight that year - around 30) - I’d still have Rypien ahead of him. He was so fun to watch and there is something about the little guy winning a fight that is so energizing. Every time he dropped them with a really good fighter and bigger guy (Jensen, that huge OTT guy that layed a beating on Glass one year) I was thinking “he we go - he’s not going to get out of this one” - then he somehow did. Was incredible to watch. “he should get a ladder” vs Hal Gil...how many comments do you never forget? That’s one of them. I’d have him in the top ten all-time middleweights. With Keane and Stan Jonathan...RIP.
  3. Think the teams past that part of their cycle and these young guys will have to get on the team and win a spot the old fashioned way which is at training camp or as an injury replacement. Rafferty scouting reports indicate he’s not ready - but close - OJ not great either - Brisbois probably the closest to getting the 7th spot. Given the way the contracts are staggered I’d expect during this season the AHlers will be fighting for Benns spot ..and this year I’d rumours are true Tryamkin for Tanevs possibly. Natural selection going forward....no more Del Zotto’s etc which is promising.
  4. Pretty sure it was game 2 as well...Churla was roughing Bure every chance he had ... something like 20 penalties given out that game ... enjoy the speed and the ferocity of that playoff game. Dallas actually had a pretty good team ... we handled them easily after Calgary set the bar on what we had to do to win so high (thanks Calgary!).
  5. You bet. I learned a lot about hockey from my uncle and grandmother who I lived with in Castlegar in grade 11. How the Smoke Eaters won a world championship in nearby Trail (with players from the area too) and how they went from original six fans (TO or MTL) to Canuck fans ... and how awesome some of our players are/were along the way. It’s also when I finally let my alliance completely go from Oilers (a lot of kids were wrapped up in how exciting they were - I wasn’t immune to that) .. and we watched every televised game that year on a 20 inch rabbit eared tv. Didn’t even know my grandma watched hockey - something im thankful for as she showed me the errors of my way cheering for an Alberta team ... Steve Bozak had a connection with our family (don’t even recall what it was) and that trumped everything the Oilers had according to grandma ha ha. In the end re-living 1982 was a common theme at that house - and I’m thankful for that - put some adult context on something I didn’t pay proper attention too when it actually happened. Their love for that team and some of its players was infectious. Sure the same is true for fans today- but instead for the 94 or WCE team...and for new fans 2011.
  6. Damn. Apologies because I feel like a bit of a bully now. Seriously just vote for whomever you want - you seem to have a good understanding regardless based on your nominations so far too. The end of the list is a lot more mercurial - and I’m sure when the so called “pro’s” make these things there is less and less agreement as they get closer to the end (in fact they said as much in an intro to a book on exactly the same topic - top 50 per team etc). The list isn’t that bad - have said that a couple times - and we all have our favourites. Also think it was you that made a comment about the possibility that fans hold players at a higher level when they first fell in love with them - which makes sense. Mentioned a long time ago my much younger sister got into hockey when the WCE team was going and loved Cooke (sure being a late-teen/early 20 had something to do with that) - seem to remember saying she’d like to marry him even ha ha. If she was playing I’d know as his name would have come up in the teens ha ha. Was into sticker books and cards when I was 10-12 ..it was CRUCIAL that I filled the 1982 one (which I did eventually - by sending out money to get one of four shiny foil stickers - to make up the rest of WG - leg). All the kids were doing that back then and imaging one day playing in a cup final. Also why I probably rate some guys higher then others - and why I am higher on Babych then others. Moustache were much cooler back then and wanted him on our team right away...same with Lanny McDonald. And for hair Bobby Clark.
  7. If you read the OP there’s a reason Sundin wasn’t listed. Over the years the Sedins comments on Sundin have grown out of proportion - attributing “much of there success” is over the top. If you can source an article that says this from their own mouths I’d be happy to read it. All I can find was one about helping them relax in the playoffs (advice to treat playoff games like regular season ones...) as early on they didn’t have as much success (PPG players until the post season). Sundin didn’t make them peak or take off or anything-they already were good - had two stellar years and went back to already good again. I used Naslund as an example because, well he also say nice things about Messier too - but he did play more then 1/2 season with him (gut punch yuck!) Sundin is a Swedish legend - and the Sedins won a gold medal with him too..but unless I need a bit more to go on then getting some advice from a vet changing into a career changing moment to buy in.
  8. What about “Back-up Bob” Essensa? He was a top five goalie for a few years/ Vezina candidate early on in WNP - and posted 18-12 with us when mediocre to poor goaltending or the “graveyard” was near its peak...
  9. Umm. Here we go. And for Naslund it was Messier for sure. Edit: Sure it wasn’t Anson Carter that got them going?
  10. Keane is one of the best middleweights in league history - decimated opponents in juniors before starting his reign of terror in the show. Also was a well travelled Stanley Cup good luck charm for while there...seemed to win one wherever he went for a large part of his career and teams sure loved having him - myself included. Good choice!
  11. Good list ... can we add Beezer who was just paperworked on and off the team? Ha ha . How about a shout out to some tough SOBs, good fighters the were here and gone fast. Ciccone, Crowder, McCallister, Brookbank, Antoski, Stajonov....have to give this one to Crowder - oh yeah Langdon was pretty good too. Went with another pugilistic fighter/player Mel Bridgman.
  12. Congratulations Tanev, vote Butcher - nominate Murzyn...
  13. Saw your Taylor Hall quip. How’s this for foreshadowing... ugh
  14. The check marks are for who got a point during the game ... and we played the Oilers. Note the check for The King ... a rare win against those guys
  15. Just a reminder - a couple of these guys aren’t in yet.
  16. Figured - voting for Cooke is about the only monkey business going on at this point and I’m pleasantly surprised- and both him and Cloutier have an argument to get in. Before we started I had Aucoin dead last (50) he was becoming quite a player for us near the end and suffered through all the heartbreak going on with Messier and post 94 but was a good solider nonetheless. Went on and had a very solid career as a two-way guy - was 6th in Norris voting one year in NYI soon after tying the all-time PP goals for us and proved it wasn’t a fluke for sure..his all time stats are very close to Jovocops - with and they re-united in PHX for awhile. Not as long or great a tenure as Murzyn ... but worth noting and in a few years he won’t make the cut. BB, QH, EP and maybe Miller could be prominent players in a re-do in 6-10 years - Marksrom too and maybe even JV or Hogs or Podz too or TT who knows. I expect this will be the last time I’d have Murzyn in the top 50 (and I do have EP in now)...Still Butcher, Ververgaert, McCarthy, Lanz, Oddliefson and a few others waiting to get in...and of course Tanev..Hamhuis has a good case for nominations as well. Have a hard time with Hansen before quite a few of these guys and do believe that’s a recent bias for sure. Take Gelinas for example - a big part of our 94 run scored 5 goals and had 13 points - then later when we had both Bure and Mogilny led the team in scoring and had two 30 and then 35 goal seasons for us in the start of the dead puck era. Gretzky listed him as one of the players he was looking forward to playing with in his book - part of the “kid line” fast and skilled etc. Only played five years but as far as quality of middle six forwards goes Hansen and Cooke couldn’t touch him...well he was a second liner eventually ... 309 goals and 660 points is a very good career . Momesso too IMO (which is a drum I’ve beaten quite a bit). Of course longevity matters...so whys Butcher not on the list before Hansen too? Top four D for us for a decade trumps 3/4th liners unless there are very special circumstances (Gino). Especially when intangibles are considered. Anyways like I said I’m pleasantly surprised there is enough on this site making good cases and so far the list is maybe a little out of whack but at least the nominations have been very solid for the most part - just time to get these guys in.
  17. Larionov would be a top five all-time Canuck if he played his entire career for us. One of the best second line centers in the history of the NHL - His career is crazy long late 70’s all the way to 2004. Didn’t come to the NHL until after 12 seasons with the red machine ... and part of the famed KLM line that dominated. It was crazy how good Makarov was ... a few years older played a long time too and even though near the end of his career on a terrible SJ team he was dominating on the ice. Read an article where the coach (think it was Crisp at the time) was showing Makarov where to go on the ice and he said “No no no that’s not how you do this” and grabbed the chalk from his hand and then started showing where EVERY guy on the ice should go. After that he never coached that line again and let Makarov work with his linemates separately. And it worked that team would have been way, way worse without that line (scored 68 points after 20 years of hockey his second to last season) ...Fesitov was awesome too -and these guys were in the 30’s when they came over (and are why the Calder rules changed as they definitely were not rookies but wily pro’s). Imagine what the 80’s NHL would have looked like with them in it during their primes...wow. Laid severe beatings on us except for 1987...
  18. Yes in both regards - although i think that the poster your commenting on has a point - just not on Larionov. He did make an impact while here and got a cool nickname for his work and was a great player no doubt but not really a great Canuck given it was a short stint with us. The list isn’t based on best players - otherwise Messier would unfortunately be number one - and Mogilny would move way up etc. Subjective for sure. Which is fine - do feel that without re-hashing the past the list would look too much like the top 50 all-time scorers though - or too much the other way and based on games played. Overall I’m pretty happy with the list - even a but surprised. Your votes and nominations have shown you know your history. Think EP will end up nominated fairly soon and once he’s a voting option probably get in. edit: As far as active Canucks go / hard to have anyone else on it yet - but the last core has a stranglehold all over the list (with Hamhuis maybe still coming). BB and EP have a case - EP a the stronger one maybe but then Reinhart, Tallon, Hlinka etc also have to be considered...ha ha there I go again. Larionov vs BB?
  19. Well it looks like Tanev is taking this one. Just so you know, upon his retirement Butcher was named by this organization - the 6th greatest player in their own top 50 of greatest Canucks. THN has him at 38 (and Tanev didn’t make the cut) more recently. The guy was incredibly tough - gritty- very hard to play against and a master provoker. He prodigious scorer in juniors he was ranked as a top 3 prospect going into the draft by some and was part of Canada’s first junior gold medal team ... never translated into the NHL but he was a leader for us and his other teams - with all due respect to Tanev one area he’s hands down ahead of just like his toughness. Knocked out some folks - the “Strangler” was a feared fighter - but offered a lot more then just enforcing. I know that a lot of fans never got to watch him play - it was a gut punch when we traded him despite the great haul in return. Became the Captain in St Louis - not Oats - not Hull etc as I think Biestra pointed out. Understand the bias towards players you watch over those you weren’t around to watch - or were too young to remember - Butcher is and always will be a great Canuck. Also has one of the greatest moments of any Canuck at the time he was traded - that is the game winning goal that got us to game 7 in arguably the best series we’ve ever had that we lost - Vernon is the main reason we didn’t win / that and Otto’s goal being allowed (which bothered Pat Quin until the day he died friends say). Played a decade for us ... was a good pick at 10 even though we whiffed on a few players...so. To this day we haven’t had anyone like him since. Edit: I’d also like to point out that Calgary had one of the best teams all-time in the mid-late 80’s, the few times EDM slipped they were right there to pick up where they left off...and we almost upset them. THN has them in the top 20 all-time, ahead of NYR ...
  20. Scouts use a formula for how they determine whether a player is a bust or not - and for the first round they busted if they didn’t play at least 200 games in the 25-30 overall range (which used to be the second round ...). 1-3 700 games, 4-7 500 games 8-12 400 games etc etc ... a player can still be a bad pick of course but just based on this we sure had a lot of busts. Second rounders have about a 50% hit rate - the remaining rounds it’s less then 20% you get one roster player combined. JB is ahead of the game so far (and we can’t really tell for 3 or 4 years)....
  21. Tanev a top five league wide defensive defenseman? THN does a Langway award each year and has for some time (best defensive defensmeman) and can’t recall seeing Tanevs name listed once (they do the top 5 plus honourable mentions sometimes) and can’t find that anywhere when searching other sites/reports either (saying Tanev is top five at his trade). That’s a bit of a homer view . Elkholm, Pesce, Slavin, Vlasic, Weber (I’d call him a two-way guy but defense is defense and he’s still one of the best at that), Manson and several others but Tanev doesn’t come up. Going back to 2013 Hamhuis and Bieksa were named in a top 25 overall (13th and 9th respectively) in one article but guess that’s too far back. Tanev always ends up on trade threads - we believe TO needs him desperately...trade deadlines pass and we can’t add picks with the players we have - and Tanevs contract should make him low hanging fruit and who wouldn’t want a “top five “ like Elkholm or Pesce or Slavin or Vlasic right? He’s been a good soldier for us but is easily the one of these three to walk away from given his injury history and that his play has started to decline. I’m not sold on TT either but would sure be a nice add to our to six. Marsktorm - give him the big contract - he’s earned it.
  22. Ha! Bastard stole my idea. Have been suggesting this for years - almost since when the cap started as predicted that the quality of rivalries would diminish and that teams would end up too close in the standings, dynastic teams would become a thing of the past etc. Wish they would create a hybrid system of some sorts or do something else to allow teams to have more talent on one team for more then 2-3 years...get that salaries needed to be contained and not sure this would work - but teams with the money should also be allowed to spend more of it if they would like too...and this would be one way to do it. Owning an NHL team has become a money making machine since the lock-out, and it’s the fans that lost the most from it. Shoot-outs...pathetic. Skills competitions shouldn’t mean the difference in who takes the two wild card spots...and rivalries have diminished because for one to start you need two great teams going hammer and tong for a period...CHI/VAN might have been the best after the usual suspects PHI/PIT and Boston/MTL which have both cooled of and the Battle of Alberta has too... this might work or just serve to jack salaries up...probably a little of both.
  23. Yeah this made me chuckle...loads of examples really - Adams and Courtnall say hi too...
  24. At this moment in time all three seem like essential players...and probably are. That said pretty much the same could be said for Big Balls, LE, Vanek, Miller, Myers etc...Ferland maybe too and the results have been mixed. That said one, two or at worst all three of these guys contracts could come back to haunt us for different reasons. Health is always a concern with Tanev - that’s an easy one - but at some point regression is too and personally I think his arc peaked and is on the down slide - not that his play won’t drop off a cliff but injuries pile up and don’t make it easier. Markstrom...well he’s been a beast for us for 1.5 years - but not before that, it’s a fickle position these days one year great the next mediocre or even bad... TT - way too small a sample size, paying more then 5 is a big risk ... And JV (or someone else) could make him yet another overpaid middle six player. Of course they could all work out brilliantly too. But history shows this doesn’t happen often for most teams. The team should also be considering other options. Like J.T. Miller 2.0 - another trade for a younger player under a great contract that’s getting squeezed out due to cap - a defenseman this time preferably (if available). Or other free agents ... Holtby vs Markstrom...hmm tough one there. Plus where is the money later for EP and QHs? I’m sure that all three will get signed- or at least two of them - but I’m not so sure we should be and glad I don’t have to make these decisions.
  25. Quin hit a huge home run with Bure and they really hoodwinked the rest of the league with that one (it was legal - they knew he had played one more game then was recorded as they had the program for it - which was required) ... and had Jagr higher then Nedved but didn’t want to take the risk having already dealt with the headaches with Larionov and Krutov to get them over and weren’t willing to risk it. But missing on the Antoski pick was all on Quin - his guys wanted Keith Tkachuk but he vetoed it (and later swore he’d never make that mistake twice). Jagr also told other teams he wouldn’t report ... except for PIT so they get a pass on that one. Made some great trades and drafted Bure ... but made some mistakes too (which a lot of other teams do too). JB deserves a lot of credit - he’s made mistakes - but seemingly at a lower rate then his predecessor’s.
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