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Everything posted by IBatch
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Doesn’t anyone remember Lack? His stats were even better then Markstroms, and what did we get for him? Goalies are the easiest position to fill league wide, heck look what that guy did in the playoffs at 35 that we discarded Mckenlly or however you spell his name. Trading Markstrom won’t get us much of a return, we might be better off keeping him and using him a expansion bait. Who would you rather lose a Lind type prospect (2nd rounder who by then could be on the cusp of the NHL) and get maybe a 2nd rounder for Markstrom in a trade AND lose his veteran sheltering of Demko, OR lose Markstrom in the expansion draft, keep him for two more years and keep Lind or equivalent... Both ideas have merit as maybe Demko is ready in a year and like I’ve already stared its easy to find a back-up...but we’d likely also have to trade an asset to do that which also needs to be factored in. It really comes down to Demko...
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OTT might be easier...or just as easy. It’s funny the see Stanley Cup banners in their rafters, taking credit for their namesakes accomplishments almost 100 years ago. And some of those players too. Then go watch a game in MTL...which is something everyone should do if they get the chance, just to see the legends statues outside, and the fire hazard hanging from their rafters...a lot of numbers retired and deservingly so, pretty sure all or almost all in the HHOF....along with 23 cup banners, not even sure if they bother with division champions but it’s hard to see them all even when your in the nosebleeds because you get blocked by what’s in front of you.. I get that your barn should put someone up there, and it’s not like we’ve gone overboard...as far as Näslund he was the best LW and a top two or three player in the league for a few years...Bure and the Sedins makes sense....but so does Linden for sure rLuongo? Maybe too. Definitely the best we’ve ever had and without him no presidents trophies. Luongo is not a top five goalie all-time...top twenty yes. Take away the shoot-out wins and make them ties for a proper comparison to guys whom played before him same with so losses. Think you will find what Sawchuk did, Roy, Broduer, Hasek, Plante, Parent, Dryden etc a lot more impressive...he will get the HHOF call I have no doubt, but isn’t really any better or worse then Lundqvist is, or Price for that matter. Still he is one of ours, a former captain and the best we’ve ever had...retiring a 1 is not something to take lightly but if it might be a long time before anyone breaks the team records he made while here, in relatively short order too.
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Wow. Some dialogue. Sure you don’t want to add anything to that load of crap? What does “fewest minutes per game the last six years” even mean? And where do you get the data that he bollooned out 23lbs in one year? How far under 50% was he anyways? Blocked the second fewest shots in the last seven years compared to who? Himself (who cares) OMG two concussions AND we just traded for Sutter 2.0! Ha ha ha your hilarious. He managed more on the third line then Sutter ever did with Crosby and Malkin in their prime. What Army are you on anyways? Not the Canucks army. Think most of us are ok with this trade and at least want to see how it pans out before we pass judgement. Just in case you have to eat a crow pie I think maybe you should stop while your ahead.
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So I guess we are a team of smurfs. And BTW bigger then Odjick. Do you think height matters more then weight when I comes to the physical stuff ? Probert didn’t. In his book he said he’d always rather fight or hit a tall lanky guy then a short stocky guy. ... plus who cares he plays the game the right way and can rock guys when he needs to. Average. What did you do google average heights to see if he’s average NHL height? Does that include goalies these days? Brings things down doesn’t it. Same with defenseman. Peca was 5’11” 185lbs yet the one of the most feared open ice hitters in his day, and all the players aside from the goalies were at least as big. Maybe bigger. Tomato your troll game is so obviously full of holes that maybe it’s time to start again with a new handle. Why don’t we at least wait until we see him play before we pass judgement.. I don’t think YOU know anything about Miller.
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Why did that count? You get a pass anyone who watched that is a brother in arms in my books..arghh why do we have to suffer so?
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I lost you once you started to generalize about the media’s 1/4 1/2 1/4 etc...I don’t live back West and I can tell you nobody is really even talking about this deal but the ones that have thinks we did great given it fills a need and they have no skin in it. I can find sources from Vancouver and post them too about how we underpayed for J.T. Miller and do what you did but the exact opposite. Again with the generalizations, I get it you don’t like the deal. It is what it is why don’t we wait until he’s played a season or at least a few months before we pass judgement. Of course your going to find blah blah about wtf is Benning doing now he’s ruining the rebuild etc AND your going to find objective views that make good arguments either way. That’s what the media does. And really does it matter? If your and educated fan can’t you make your own mind about it....this is no gamble we just got a great vet that can play all three positions and won’t have to waste five years waiting for whomever it was to make the lineup, even if it’s a superstar you can bet Horvat, EP, Boeser and Hughes will be tired of all the losing by then. We needed another guy to play with EP that’s good on the boards, isn’t a pee-wee sized and has enough skill to play with him. That’s NOT coming through the draft picking at ten for two or three years.. he plugged a hole can’t you see that? Maybe he will suck and we will be stuck with him for four years and I will switch sides to the fire Benning pitchforks out etc. I highly doubt it. Even though I almost barfed when I didn’t hear Sergechevs name after hearing first what we were giving up. No way in a million years does TB do this deal if there is no cap. They’d keep him on and be happy...even better is the reactions from opposing teams in the other forums...they are not happy with this at all. CAL and EDM can go suck eggs, we have a utility top six player that can move around as needed and EP has a worthy line-mate not Goldobin as a rookie. Ha ha. But go ahead continue your dialogue on how we got burned and Benning sucks. I don’t need the percentages of the media from someone I don’t even know making them up to know that this was a great move by GMJB. Also as an aside, be honest how long have you been following this team? My guess is not prior to the WCE years...us older guys know that we’ve never had it better then we do now. And that the deck was so stacked against us that the best hope we could possibly have was two cores away MAYBE we could contend again. Anyone that thinks we should have a three-five year rebuild and be back on top is naive.
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Will the Canucks win a dispute with NHL on cap penalty?
IBatch replied to Slegr's topic in Canucks Talk
I think your castrophizing this. Retiring now was the best thing that could of happened other then playing it out which was so unlikely nobody could expect that. This isn’t a surprise. It was coming the moment he signed the contract. It is what it is, if you want to be critical of it and not see the bright side that’s up to you. If you want to put blame on it blame MG. But also understand that back then there is no way we had one of Erhoff or Hamhuis on the team. -
Bobs the man. Pretty much says it all in a nutshell. Bettman was right to say at the time it may be legal but it isn’t in the spirit of the CBA...of course Luongo wasn’t going to play 22 years in the NHL, no goalie does that. MG must have thought he was pretty cute at the time ... same with Hossa. One gets out on a technicality the other does not. Someone has to pay and you better believe it will be us no matter what. I can say watching the fans boo and boo and boo was completely overboard at the draft. I know it’s a thing that a lot of fans do around the league... but why? Except for a select few rich owners and big market teams the cap helps everyone else. When it was installed almost every fan was on the owners and NHLs side because salaries were getting completely out of control. Have we forgotten already? It’s starting again if anyone hasn’t noticed. No hockey for a year was unbelievable, nobody ever thought that would occur especially the players, but they were raping the owners so bad year after year what other choice did they have but to say enoughs enough and FU. Why should they be making 75% of the revenue? They rolled back 20% to make it work remember... Since then the league has continued to grow and has actually prospered through a world - wide crisis that rivalled the Great Depression in the US at the time.. so many people lost their jobs and their homes around the world, not here in Canada thank god because our banking laws weren’t insane. I bet the NHL might of had to fold at that time if players continued to take the majority and most owners just hemorrhaged money to support their pet project, while their actual business was taking big huge hits. Instead they got 15% raises while the rest of us working joes took the hit in our RRSPs etc. Bettman got his cost certainty, the cap had a floor and a ceiling which artificially keeps a bit of free market going within it, but small market teams were protected and big market teams with infinite dollars could no longer try to buy cups the way the NYR tried for years (go back and look at those late 90’s early 2000’s teams...how the heck didn’t they have a dynasty??!) unsuccessfully...much like the MLB NYY still do to this day with good results though. Yet for some reason fans use Bettman as a lightning rod for all their hate and dettestment over the past. FACTUALLY he is a hero. I know the players still begrudge losing and having a cap (they are pros and losing isn’t in their nature) you can see it in their body language often when they are around him. But we aren’t players, we actually won and won big time. Because we can compete with any other team in the league now ... Vancouver is and never will have the deepest pockets or be the biggest market. No we aren’t small market...but their are a half dozen or so teams ahead of us at least and now we can compete on an even playing field with each of them. I bet after the draft and the fans continually (and embarrassing themselves at the same time) booing the crap out of Bettman, it will still be fresh in his mind, and he will be smiling inside with the idea of a phone call from Benning for a free pass on his predecessor’s sins on the cap. NO WAY are we getting out of it. Just accept it for what it is. And it was cap circumventing ... we should pay the price, thank MG for the memories and the money for either Erhoff or Hamhuis and move on.
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True but about a year ago when I checked Luongo had over 50...turn those into ties and add another 5 and he’s got about 425 wins under the old system. Still an amazing accomplishment, especially when 400 wins used to be otherworldly. THN has a top 100 all-time goalie book/publishment, which they re-vise every couple years, one came out this year where do you think he ranked? Hint it’s not even close to where his win ranking is...
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Will the Canucks win a dispute with NHL on cap penalty?
IBatch replied to Slegr's topic in Canucks Talk
You do understand that there was no way he was going to play this contract out right? He did us a huge favour retiring now instead of going for 500 wins and then retiring next year or even worse the one after that when both EP and Hughes are up. Personally I’m stoked, very happy for him and that he didn’t go to a doctor for a note as it would have been dishonest. Dont think this needs to be a big deal, I’m sure Benning has plans for each scenario and is sending flowers and a thank you -
Pretty sure teams will get to two more get out of jail cards after the next CBA...if an owner has deep enough pockets they could pay him what he wants and later give him his pink slip if he’s not worth it or they simply want to spend the money somewhere else. Right now as it stands we have nobody that would be worth using this on...food for thought.
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That’s the type of salary he should get...depends on the market though and how desperate some chump is to get him...a 7 x 7 deal would be a handcuff for sure, much like the last Kronwall deal was for Detroit edit: of course it all depends on his play...there is an off-side chance this wouldn’t be too bad, if the cap goes up and he rocks the PP ... which he does have some mojo to do. Risky, don’t think we would pay him, we can’t afford it now with 3 million less, Boeser still to sign and a pile of qualified players waiting to get paid, plus your namesake Hutton ...
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Will the Canucks win a dispute with NHL on cap penalty?
IBatch replied to Slegr's topic in Canucks Talk
I’m sure Benning is grinning right now because a much bigger headache was avoided had he retired a year or especially two later. We should be thanking Luongo and sending him flowers instead of worrying about this. This is a GOOD thing. I’m also sure Benning already had three different scenarios ready for his future cap structure, and the best of the three just opened up. MG would have never been able to assemble the group he did without this contract too. No Erhoff or no Hamhuis... think about it for a minute. Rejoice, now we have a lot more flexibility then we could have had things worked out differently, we were already on the books for part of his cap hit anyways, what’s the actual difference between the two? 1.5 million? -
I think some people don’t realize what an average NHLer is, because Myers is most definitely not that. He’s above average on the low side pretty good on the high side. 8 points, 4 goals in 16 two playoffs ago, and gets around 10 goals and 30 points mostly 5 x 5 on the third pairing on a deep team...48 points and Calder winner, then some disastrous injury plagued year etc. He’s good enough to be a solid second pairing RHD, that’s valuable today, and is above average defensively. For us he’s a huge upgrade...think of who he’d bounce out of the lineup, Stecher would be our 3rd pairing guy which is where he’d be on most contending teams too. Absolutely he’s no first pairing guy, but he is a decent Edler replacement long term too. Just on the other side. Or a decent Tanev replacement, a lot more offense, a little worse defense. There is a chance this could backfire on us, just like there is for any mid-range UFA signing (LE, Ryan, Okposo, Neal etc) but the short-medium term this deal makes a lot of sense for our team. We want to get bigger - check, we want to improve our immediate defense -check...and I could see a Hughes/Myers pairing as a great fit. He can shelter him and allow him to rover while he takes care of positional needs ... and he has one heck of a shot, something our defense has very very very little of at the moment. It wouldnt surprise me at all if he got first unit PP time that he could even break 50 points. And score 15 plus goals. He’s done it almost before as a rookie, and quite often defenseman have career years in their early thirties. Coming here would give him a lot of opportunities to shine that’s for sure, as we have nobody else to shoot the puck on the right side...
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And that’s the problem. Without dismantling part of the core we simply won’t get the help we need on defense without overpaying for a RHD - all UFAs come at premium and rarely live up to their cap hit. Myers is a decent player even good right now, with some upside given he hasn’t had a lot of top pairing minutes for a long time. I think he’s the best option available right now, and given the Miller trade probably our best chance at making that first something in the twenties. Would be a massive upgrade both figuratively and literally, 6’8” the guy has size and a huge wingspan. We could wait another year and hope to get one of the RHD that might be available...but there could be none that good too, having already re-signed or traded and re-signed. If he wants to come id he ok with it.
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We can buy him out but then half his salary still counts against the cap for double the remaining contract...so in other worlds 3 million for six more years...otherwise it’s cap circumvention. We used up our two freebies a long time ago on Ballard and can’t remember. Would rather we trade him or just stick it out...three more years.
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Hey I have that too, and did back when I was their age as well, no frigging way he can play the game if it’s serious. MRIs state how bad it is, from mild-crippling, he’s probably played with it already for years and now has problems putting his skates on. Who knows how bad it is, the point is if it’s bad no way can he play or should he be playing pro sports, the risks of it getting worse is extremely high. Have an aunt who had it so bad she was bedridden in the hospital for weeks.
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Without checking this I’m almost certain your wrong there, Roy certainly won 200 for MTL before going to COL. Agreed that goalies don’t play for as long as they used to but the ones that do can still pile up the wins if their team is good enough and they stick around. With the shoot out and OT wins not counting as ties like they once were, it’s a lot easier to pile up the Ws too. Ask Lundqvist has like 90 of them. Quick .. Vasilevsky has a decent chance of getting 400 if he sticks around... Luongo records with Vancouver will eventually get broken just like he did with McLean (who faded fast approaching 30). Will take some time but it will happen. Rinne is another current goalie that’s piled up the wins for one franchise so far..
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And thank you MG, your handprints on this team continues to make things difficult for your predecessors...
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Apollo have you considered that maybe the cap recapture penalty his contract is makes was part of the reason he retired now? It’s the best case scenario by far compared to him doing it next year or god forbid the following one when we have to sign Hughes and EP...it would have been monstrous then. Helps both his teams really. Its not his fault, but he does bear some responsibility and I’m sure he takes it seriously too. And he’s doing it the right way, pretending your injured to circumvent this sullies his legacy. Like I’m sure you’ve said before “the greatest goalie ever to play for the Canucks and in the history of pro sports etc”. A stand up guy. A real pro. We were lucky to have him, one of the happiest days of my life when we traded for him, I knew right then that we were going to be a contender. Was a huge fan already given he was always on the highlight reel, making ridiculous Hasek like saves and winning games well being outshot 55-20. He was so good he actually had decent record playing for absolute garbage. As far as the recapture thing goes it’s completely fair, we took advantage of it at the beginning paid him 10 million knowing full well it was unlikely he’d ever finish the deal, and kept his cap hit way down as a result. We also ratified the next CBA fully accepting the recapture penalty to make sure it all evened out in the end and there was no circumventing. If we don’t pay the penalty we don’t honour our agreements. It’s on Luongo a bit too, but not much, way more on MG for creating the albatross in the first place. Hate to see you lose a fan favourite over this...
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All those guys have fair arguments to get in...heck after like 30 years Vachon was jt got in just recently. Barasso tops the list IMO, media have suggested for years he hasn’t gotten in yet because of his prickly personality...Luongo would be up there with Jospeh although he has more Vezina finalist appearances (an argument made for why Joseph isn’t in, was rarely higher then five in voting) two gold medals including one as the starter...made it to the finals etc..Vernon and Osgood also both would look good in the HHOF...heck Osgood was the front runner for the Smythe on their team the last time they were in the final ...two cups as starter...4 cup appearances. All these guys are considered top fifty goalies all time and higher...Luongo around 30....right around how many goalies are already in. Wouldnt call Luongo a shoo-in first ballot guy, but with the lack of quality guys retiring these days (Joe Thornton is a shoo-in first ballot but still playing, someone will sign him) and a short list of guys still waiting there turn I think he has very good odds of getting in a couple years after the waiting period is over...maybe when he’s 45 or so. Fluery will likely be the last goalie to play 19 seasons or so like Luongo...Lunqvist has an outside chance maybe too. Goalies simply don’t start before they are 20 anymore. Both these guys are probably HHOF players too. Also want to add that Lundqvist feasted on Shoot out wins, over 80 and counting, the other guys on this list got ties for that, a 400 win season is a remarkable feat for them. Make all games that were won or lost in 4 on 4 or 3 on 3 OT or at very least the shoot-out and make them ties it creates an even playing field with the goalies that came before that...Luongo wouldn’t crack 500 likely even if he played the next three years under that format. And would be considerably lower down the list too, closer to ten then 5.
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There fixed it for you. Strange how taking one sentence or one part of a post can change it entirely. Thanks for acknowledging Bennings made a lot of great picks.
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Will the Canucks win a dispute with NHL on cap penalty?
IBatch replied to Slegr's topic in Canucks Talk
I think he’s proud and didn’t want to sully his retirement by going out that way as it’s dishonest. He probably could have continued to play and passed 500 this season ... but he didn’t and that’s his choice. A lot players his age have physical ailments that are part of the reason why they are ready to hang them up, in his letter he says he wasn’t happy about his performance last year and that he didn’t want to put the work in it takes to get ready for the next season...sounds like if he doesn’t think he can play like a top goalie he doesn’t want to keep playing. For sure he could have gone to the doctor and got a note, but if I was in his shoes why would you want to have that as your closing out legacy retirement move? He wants to retire and join the Panthers in another capacity, he’s screwing them a bit too but they don’t seem to mind, as fans why should we too. I agree that we signed the last CBA and that’s supersedes whatever agreements were made before (from your earlier post), we will just have to live with it, and heck it could have been a lot worse if he didn’t retire until a year from now, who knows maybe he knew this and didn’t want to stick it to us and it played into his thinking process...would have loved it if he stayed and got his 500w...and then retired but then the cap penalty would be a lot worse for two more years...and if he retired with one year left it was a huge penalty, right when we have Hughes and EP on new contracts...we should be rejoicing from a cap penalty stand point...that he retired now. -
Yet you’ve repeatedly stated he lost all his trades. So we should have got a first for Beiksa, two firsts for Hansen and Burrows right? And how many games has Granlund played with us? How many did Shinkaruk? How many picks did we get for Lack again? Hmmm...five years lost all his trades ... good grief ... oh yeah and second for Bear what a waste too. Pearson, what a bum. Things aren’t as black and white as your trying to make them out to be, just because a lot of us support Benning doesn’t mean we don’t see the grey areas or can’t acknowledge the bad moves. No GM is perfect. Heck look Yzerman and all his shine from TB make a splash by picking a guy he could have traded down a few spots and added a second and still got his man, or even right out of the top ten and added a small treasure heap of extras..worst case there was still Soderstrom whom pretty much everyone ranked higher .... thinking he’s gonna to miss the scouts in TB, been batting the best average by far in the draft the past four years. Or Bergevin making fans want to puke when he left sure things on the board last year for his coveted center. Plus a entire novel of questionable moves over the years. Dubas. Well he’s got his nickname for a reason, literally lobbed a hand grenade into every GMs RFA negotiation’s going forward. Loved to here what you’d have to say about some of them. Man just gave up a first for a year of Marleau, and he won’t even be playing for them ha ha ha you’d be puking your guts out over that one. NO GM is perfect. Never have been. Quin did a lot of good things but look at his drafting aside from Bure it was pretty bad. Stajonov became Näslund though... Id like to see what Benning can manage once we have a decent team again and we aren’t far off thanks to him. Five years but only three years of concentrated rebuilding and we are sniffling the playoffs already?...wow...CAR just waited a decade AND CLB who’s been around for decades now just won their first series in I think their third ever appearance. In fact there are sixteen experienced managers that don’t make the playoffs each year. Doesn’t mean they are bad necessarily.