knucklehead91

Lmao he steps out of the box on a partial breakaway and you act like he did it all himself after OJ and the rest of the PKers killed a penalty. OMG MAN ITS A F***ING POWERPLAY. Yes he is good offensively that was never the bloody issue. ITS ABOUT ASSET MANAGEMENT DUDE. Get a grip.

Oh dont worry he got walked first, took a bad penalty first and OJ was out there making up for his mistakes. Thanks to OJ no one scored on the PP Gotta go.

Okay....where do I begin.... According to the games I watched, Olli played well enough to keep a spot. So you want to talk about skill gap and take a skill guy and use him as a 3rd pair???? That is not the kind of player Rathbone is, he is better off playing in the top 2 in the AHL and continuing to build on what he is good for, rather than toss him in on a 3rd pair and smother his talent with low ice time and playing a different type of role. OJ would fit better on 3rd pairing due to his skill set and his positioning. Juolevi is still learning how to walk again and skate all over again after 3 major surgeries dude. Both knees and his back have had surgery and of course his lateral movement, his stride and pivot are going to take some time to come around. Lets go amputate both of Rathbone's legs and then sow them back on and see how quickly he learns to skate at an NHL level. Rathbone is a top 4 guy, not a bottom pairing guy. OJ is more of a swiss army knife, nothing flashy, pretty smart, positionally pretty good and can be a decent #4 or be a good 3rd pairing kinda of guy. That is not Rathbone imho. Rathbone, like Bieksa, Kesler, Marchand, Burrows, Johnson and many many more players who spent a little extra time in the minors, would benefit at doing what he does best with the top pairing opportunities to really settle in and develop even further. Rathbone has 8 AHL games and 8NHL games under his belt. How in the hell can you assure me you have seen enough of him to know how he will look in a FULL professional season? Also to touch on the games I've watched. How about some advanced stats for you at even strength... And then I'll toss in some special teams numbers too. Juolevi 23 GP 13:13AVG TOI 284:19 TOI at ES oiSV% 92.36 HDGA 7 oZS - 33 (45.83%) dZS - 39 GA - 12 PK - 18:22TOI PP - :51TOI GV - 9 Rathbone 8 GP 15:30AVG TOI 112:48 TOI at ES oiSV% - 92.06 HDGA - 3 oZS - 20 (54.05%) dZS - 17 GA - 5 PK - :31TOI PP - 10:43TOI GV - 6 So first off, tell me how Rathbone was relied upon so heavily? In which way was he relied upon or gifted PP time and offensive zone duties? Kid got called up and handed 15 mins, gifted PP time and wasnt trusted in his own zone. 10 mins of PP time in 8 games..... OJ had nearly 20 mins of PK time. You're telling me sending Rathbone down would send a bad message? When OJ was here and wasnt getting an opportunity on the PP nor the same amount of ice time. Rathbone was giving up the puck almost once a game, OJ was coughing it up once every 3 games. Who's more responsible? Rathbone was on the ice for 5 even strength goals (6 goals in all situations) in 8 games..... 75% of the games he plays in, he is on the ice for a goal against. OJ was on the ice for 12 goals at even strength (13 total) in 23 games..... 56% of the games OJ played in he was on the ice for a goal against. OJ also played during some of the toughest scheduling of the season, so Rathbone's 8 games and smaller sample size isn't very impressive. OJ battled through garbage scheduling for 23 games. Rathbone did it for 8 games and was gifted opportunities due to his skill set. Why wouldnt a former 5th overall get PP time??

Okay so Rathbone also is still an IF.. he hasnt had much of a sample size. Granted he looks good. OJ had a 23 game sample size and played pretty solid this past season. Okay now heres my question for you. Where do you see Rathbone in the lineup, Where do you have him pencilled in?

Oh… my god dude… you are hurting my brain IF OLLI JUOLEVI…. HAS A STRONG FINISH TO CAMP… are you with me so far? HE HAS EARNED CONSIDERATION FOR THE NHL are you still with me? ITS NOT POLITICAL ITS A GOD DAMN COMPETITION AND OJ HAS MADE AN ARGUMENT. HE WORKED HARD AND FINISHED STRONG. THAT IS DUE TO HARD WORK. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? CAN YOU HEAR ME?! You do what is best for the club. SEND THE GUY WHO IS WAIVER EXEMPT DOWN AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE GUY WHO HAS TO PASS WAIVERS. TRADE HIM, KEEP HIM, DONT PLAY HIM I DONT CARE. BUT DO NOT LOSE A F***ING PLAYER, AN ASSET FOR F***ING NOTHING BECAUSE OF SOMEONES BLOODY PRIDE. If it is remotely close, YOU SEND THE WAIVER EXEMPT GUY DOWN. If it is not close between OJ and Rathbone, YOU SEND OLLI DOWN BECAUSE HE WILL CERTAINLY CLEAR WAIVERS. Jesus christ man. What do you not understand about asset management. OLLI JUOLEVI CAN BECOME A VALUABLE TRADE CHIP IF…. He 1) has a strong finish to camp and is in the conversation as to who to keep up and who to send down, if OJ is in that kind of conversation at the end of camp, he might not clear waivers and then you lose a) a trade chip b) depth BE SMART First OLLI HAS TO EARN IT. But if it comes down to it, think logically, what is best for the organization. Is sending Olli down and risking losing a dman who finished a strong camp going to help or hurt? Or would sending Rathbone because he DOES NOT require waivers make more sense? Once again I will say it for you for the 10000th time.. ONLY if OJ makes a serious case to stick with the club.

Okay…. How many bloody times do I have to say this IF JUOLEVI MAKES AN ARGUMENT FOR A F***ING SPOT ON THE TEAM…. You send Rathbone down. BECAUSE OF WAIVERS If Juolevi DOES NOT MAKE AN ARGUMENT FOR A SPOT. YOU SEND HIM DOWN, BECAUSE HE WILL CLEAR WAIVERS. Jesus christ. It sends a bad message if you keep Juolevi if he doesnt make a case for himself. Its understandable if he makes a case for himself to be on the team BY THE END OF F***ING CAMP. Not today not yesterday, not tomorrow, BUT AT THE END OF CAMP. Give him a full evaluation. THEN MAKE THE DECISION. Its a simple conversation with Rathbone if Juolevi plays well enough to be in contention with that final spot. ”Hey Jack its Jim calling, you had a great camp and we love what we saw out there. It came down to you and Juolevi, he had a slow start to camp but he finished strong and because we dont have to deal with waivers with you, we are going to have to send you down for the time being so you can get some top 2 minutes in the AHL, while we make some decisions with the big club. We’re going to find a spot for you up here, we dont think we can sneak anyone down on waivers after the camp you guys all had. Go down and keep working hard, you’ve earned an opportunity to play for the Vancouver Canucks, we just need to figure a few things out first. Great camp Jack, see you soon” Guys who have earned a spot in camp have been rewarded a spot. Hoglander in, Player Name out. They are not catering to anyone, they give opportunities to the guys who stole the opportunity. You also need to consider OJ hasnt really had a healthy camp or been playing at 100% through rehabbing. You need to give him a fair look to really make a decision. CAMP IS NOT OVER. I dont give a flying f*** if OJ gets beat out hands down by Rathbone, I do not care. I want to see a full camp and a fair evaluation first. OJ has spent the last 4-5 years battling multiple knee surgeries, back surgeries and then finally when he earned a shot to play this year he got destroyed by COVID and he was playing pretty solid up until that point.

Yes Rathbone can move up and down without having to pass through waivers. He’s exempt When I teased about “calling OJ up” and him not being there, its teasing at the stupidity of throwing a guy on waivers and when you need a player, he’s already gone, claimed by someone else when he first got sent down. Its like when you go to look for something because its been out of sight out of mind and them you realize OH SH*T ITS GONE. So if OJ proves by the end of camp he is a valuable player, he might not make it through waivers, so sending Rathbone down and keeping OJ up, we dont have to worry or run into the issues of someone getting claimed on the way down. OJ stays up and avoids being taken on waivers POTENTIALLY… And Rathbone is exempt from waivers. Its the smarter more logical way of managing our assets. Dont risk waivers. If OJ doesnt prove anything by the end of camp, well then he likely will clear waivers and we wont need to worry. But for now, lets get through an entire camp and pre-season and worry about who stays up who goes down and whos a bust for later… right now these guys need to gut it out in camp and be in game shape and ready to go by the end of camp. Some guys are sluggish to start after the summer, others can step on the ice without missing a step. Its just a bit of timing and adjustment to get back on track and used to the tempo

But Rathbone is not waiver eligible and OJ is. Am I right? Ultimately you could lose one guy for nothing. There may be some issues recalling Rathbone, but Id rather have an issue than an absence. Say we lose a couple D in the regular season which happens quite often. You go to call OJ up but hes gone to Montreal because they have no Weber and need some depth on D… The whole point I am trying to get at is to let camp play out… if OJ is nowhere near close to NHL caliber, hes gone and Rathbone is in. If OJ is ready, hes up and Rathbone is down, due waivers. At that point we can possibly look at moving OJ and getting a pick in return, that way we get something for OJ and maximize our assets. Or OJ stays with the club, we move someone else, Rathbone comes up or whatever… first and foremost we should get through camp and let it play out

Based on everyones conclusions on Rathbone, I am speaking on the majority of people’s assumptions on Rathbone. Which is why I said “even thats debatable” There is a good sense of Rathbone, there isnt a great sense of OJ imho. People are already pencilling Rathbone in and writing OJ off. Which is why I keep saying over and over again, to let camp play out first before making any decisions or assumptions

Im sorry to hear you have lots of friends going through it. I know someone who was put on a medically induced coma and then had to be airlifted to Vancouver and was put on a heart and lung bypass machine. He has only recently been taken out of the coma. We have no idea how he will be and if he will ever make a full recovery

And you know what I hope both succeed too. If we manage our assets appropriately and give OJ a legit chance he can either be an NHL dman for us and Rathbone can develop in the A for another year and he can come up next year full time. Or we can see trade OJ for a pick and not lose him on waivers potentially. We can maximize our assets. OJ could be a guy we showcase and move out and get another organizational need in a package deal. Or they both become NHL Dmen for us. Like I just dont see why people are so impatient with a guy who has had to be so bloody patient with his own surgeries and rehabilitation. He hasnt had 4 years in the minors of doing sweet F all playing every game and not improving. If he had been playing lots but struggling, then ya move on from him. But this is not the case for OJ at all We pretty much know what we have in Rathbone for the most part and even that is still debatable. We do not really know what we have in OJ.

OJ looked decent this season and he was finally keeping healthy… until COVID. He has incredible potential… when he’s healthy… Has he been healthy? NO! He shows glimpses of NHL defensive positioning. Does that sound like a guy whos improving? Somewhat yes I would say so. But he has also had very few glimpses in the NHL. So how can you say he only sometimes shows glimpses when he has only sometimes been given a glimpse in the NHL? Neither his time on ice or opportunity in the NHL have been given a good enough look. His skating looks like it isnt NHL ready for some reason?? Uhmmmmm maybe the 2 knee surgeries and back surgery the past few years might have a bit to do with that. Knees and backs dont just fix themselves and heal over night, he has a lengthy road to get back to 100% if he will ever be 100% after fairly big surgeries. Also, he doesnt look like he’s putting in the work? Olli Juolevi Faith was lost by a lot of people when Olli Juoleviwas seriously injured on back-to-back years. Not only was he badly hurt both times, but he also needed surgery on each occasion. First, it was his back. It was a case of offseason training gone wrong that eventually forced him to go under the knife. The rehab has long and difficult and put him behind schedule for the following 2018-19 season. Despite the critics, Juolevi shot out of a cannon and had himself a tremendous offensive start to that year. He posted 13 points in his first 18 games and looked better than ever. Unfortunately, he got injured yet again and it required him to get yet another serious surgery. This time, Juolevi’s promising season was ended with an operation to repair his knee. After that, Juolevi did everything in his power to get back on track, but many people doubted his ability to actually be able to pull it off. One major surgery can be enough to end someone’s career in sports, how could be possibly survive having two? However, the determined Juolevi did his time in rehab and fought through additional hip soreness in order to keep pushing the needle forward. He played 45 games for the Utica Comets in the AHL last year and he performed well above expectations when he joined the Canucks inside the Edmonton bubble. Green liked what he saw from Juolevi enough to dress him for his NHL debut. Juolevi played just over six minutes, didn’t make any mistakes and helped the Canucks eliminate the Minnesota Wild and punch their ticket into the Stanley Cup Playoffs. “Juolevi looks ready to play in the NHL full-time,” said Jim Benning on Sportsnet 650.

Okay so heres what we do…. 1) let camp play out If OJ proves to be NHL worthy and makes an argument to be in the NHL we send Rathbone down even if Rathbone is a bit better at the end of camp, because Rathbone does not require waivers where as OJ does. We show off OJ to the league We can either use him as an NHL player or as a trade chip for later in the season or even next season. Meanwhile Rathbone gets top 4 mins in the AHL continuing to develop. Once we move OJ if we move OJ, Rathbone comes up. 2) ITS THE BEGINNING OF TRAINING CAMP CAN WE NOT JUST LET CAMP FINISH BEFORE WE FREAK OUT?!? This is what training camp is for, to see where your at and for you to TRAIN and get ready for the NHL regular season and thats why there are pre-season games to get teams into the rhythm of game flow before turning it on to the regular season. So you didnt show up to camp in as good of shape as the coach is pushing you. You werent ready, but how far off are you? Camp is more than 1 day and 1 bag skate. If you are not caught up to speed by the end of camp, you completely failed to show up for camp. If you are caught up and keeping up at the end of camp, you werent that far off. People just take a freakin chill pill and I will too. Its still early in camp and OJ has a legitimate reason to be a little behind on his conditioning after the hell he has gone through the last few years. He also had the longest battle with COVID. How does a guy work on conditioning after working on rehabbing knees and back surgeries for a few years and then to get hit with COVID and lose a bunch of weight??

Okay so heres my beef with the “‘might be done waiting for this guy to turn the corner” idea. How many fair opportunities has OJ been given and failed to show improvement? How long has he spent “developing”? He has had TWO knee surgeries and 1 back surgery in consecutive years. Does that sound like a guy who is not getting it and not turning a corner or a guy who has been developmentally stalled? Do you really want to give up on a guy who hasnt had a healthy break for a little length of time to actually prove hes an NHLer? I think there is a lot of unknown with OJ right now and I feel like it would be a gamble to send him down and hope he clears waivers and its likely a gamble another organization would look to take on a former 5th overall who has shown some promise but has had to rehab multiple serious surgeries before getting his chance to shine. Its a flat cap, teams need cheap options and need some depth on the back end. Montreal has no Weber and may look to snag a decent Dman to insert somewhere on the back end. Id like everyone to just read this little article first before sh*tting all over OJ for one f***ing bag skate after having a really tough battle with COVID and who knows what kind of damage has been done to his lungs. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/thecanuckway.com/2020/10/24/canucks-3-players-who-need-to-overcome-the-critics/amp/2/

So at the 1 min mark what Im seeing is Podz fighting off a check from a Woo who is pretty damn strong and Podz gets dumped and the puck gets stripped away. Podz Reaches out to protect the puck and Woo muscles him to the ice… when you said bad give away Im expecting or envisioning a bad pass. That was good back pressure from Woo to out muscle Podz and strip the puck away.

I guess Garland is a little b*tch We should send his ass back and get CDC’s favourite boy Loui back, he never puked.

But you cant understand if he was affected by a virus from a pandemic? Idk if youve looked around the past 18 months but theres this thing called COVID and its real. We arent making this virus up. He had it and he was seriously effected by it

He might have passed some tests and felt fine, but he wont know how his lungs truly are operating until he has to dig deep for oxygen and find out he isnt getting close to enough and is struggling to supply oxygenated blood to his extremities

Just because he is phyiscally feeling okay does not mean his lungs are ready for a bloody bag skate. In all honesty have you ever player AAA hockey or Junior? Have you ever truly been bag skated? When I was playing competitively and in my best shape. My warmup for workouts would kill most people and a bag skate would kill me Its a bag skate at the end of practice at the start of camp. Why is anyone panicking?!? CAMP JUST STARTED

He could have some serious lung issues from contracting COVID and you want to attack his character for being bag skated to the point where he couldnt stand or barely breathe??? I think if anything his rolling around and not getting up should be taken with a grain of salt, he had COVID the worst of anyone on the team. Had he not had that reasoning then ya sure blast the guy. But we have zero inside information as to how is body is handling post COVID. So stop with the ignorance.

Lmao have you ever taken off your furry costume and actually played competitive sports? You have clearly never done a bag skate in your life and if you did and you werent barely breathing or hardly standing you werent bag skating. The guys who mailed it in on the bag skate are still standing because they gave up on the bag skate at the far blue line.

And thats totally fair, we should let camp play out and see how it goes. If OJ doesnt earn it in camp, he doesnt get claimed. If he makes an argument for a spot, he will get claimed. From there we can make the zero risk move, either Rathbone or OJ goes down and neither get claimed.

Okay so I just want to start this over again..... I am not saying I do not entirely disagree with you. Im not saying we shouldnt slide him down through waivers. Not yet at least. Camp has just begun... He has gone through hell the past 4 years and hasn't had a chance to show what he is capable of. Fans knock JB for his "asset management" Would it not be better asset management, to send the guy who doesnt require waivers down and see what the waiver eligible player is capable of first? Before sending a top 5 draft pick not too long ago, down through waivers.... We could find out we have TWO NHL dmen in Rathbone AND Juolevi. He is a low risk high reward waiver guy. He has quite a bit of potential to offer and we have only seen a very small amount of it. Do I think he gets claimed, maybe not... But there is still a chance and a reasonable chance that he DOES get claimed. A team with D-issues or cap issues in a flat cap world that need a cheap D option could easily look and see a former 5th overall who hasnt had much chance to shine, for free. Why would a team NOT take a flyer? He is free!!!! We could keep OJ up, give him a fair shot, a legitimate opportunity and a real look and send Rathbone down and let him get top 4 mins and continue to develop and be a star. We then get a fair assessment of OJ, we either see he is not NHL ready and his time here is done, we can send him down to the minors and not give a flying f*** if he gets claimed.... ORRRR He proves us and JB who selected him 5th overall right and he PROVES he is an NHL caliber dman.... Now we have a possible trade chip who we can move out for picks, possibly another prospect. We can improve his trade value OR we keep him and allow him to step in and become a top 4 dman. We do not need to rush with Rathbone, we have time with him. OJ we need to utilize his opportunity to dictate his future. Remember... Training camp just started on Wednesday.... Not 2 weeks ago.... and fans are already clamoring to send a guy down on waivers and have given up on him in under 3 days of camp. Look at his HockeyDB Regular Season Playoffs Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM NHL Totals 23 2 1 3 0 1 0 0 0 0 2015-16 London Knights OHL 57 9 33 42 16 38 18 3 11 14 4 2016-17 London Knights OHL 58 10 32 42 36 26 14 3 5 8 8 2017-18 TPS Turku SM-liiga 38 7 12 19 14 7 11 2 5 7 0 2018-19 Utica Comets AHL 18 1 12 13 2 -12 -- -- -- -- -- 2019-20 Utica Comets AHL 45 2 23 25 24 -8 2019-20 Vancouver Canucks NHL -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 0 0 0 0 2020-21 Vancouver Canucks NHL 23 2 1 3 0 -1 -- -- -- -- -- Thats not a lot of hockey the past 4-5 years. I think for that to occur for a conditioning stint it would have to happen during the season? would it not? Im thinking more logically of what is better asset management and how it helps the team/organization. Invest a bit of time and opportunity in OJ and see if we have a good trade chip to move at some point in the season and then when we do move him Rathbone comes up and takes over. It's a better problem to have OJ in the NHL and Rathbone in the AHL than it is to have Rathbone in the NHL and OJ playing for a divisional rival. That is of course if OJ can prove it after camp and get a few games in to show a bit more of what he can do. Its about asset management. Turn a "waiver guy" into a trade chip with value or smother his value in the AHL if he clears or lose him completely. Take your pick.

Weakness is a guy who wont push himself to point of breaking. Wont do anything and everything at all costs, wont give it all he’s got to help the team succeed. If you want camp full of guys standing around at the end of practice at the end of a bag skate, go cheer for your lovely Toronto 3-1 series lead Maple Leafs. I’ll cheer for the guys who collapse at the end of a game and dig deep to pull out a win. Montreal won because they dug deep. Toronto didnt and that starts at training camp and continues through practice. Its the guys who give it all in practice that give you the best chance to win in a game, not the guys who half ass it in practice and then dont know how to push hard in a game. There is nothing to win in practice, a guy who will push himself to the point of breaking down in a practice, is a winner. Plain and simple.

Rathbone looks great and thats awesome, but we’re also comparing a guy whos been healthy and a guy who was just recently seriously ill with COVID, lost weight and who knows how he has recovered? Im happy either way, but I’d like to give OJ a fair evaluation and not risk losing a potential top 4 dman to a rival for nothing. How pissed would you be if we lost him to Calgary and he turns into a Dan Hamhuis kinda guy minus the hipchecks. We could manage our assets a little better and get a full read on both and then make the choice to move on