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Everything posted by Noble 6
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Those Tanev replacements you listed are a significant downgrade though.
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Props for some good proposals that are more even than most. I like that Columbus trade, but I still don't know if I would do it. We'd be giving up two young, cost controlled pieces that could be relatively cheap for next year with our cap crunch. It depends on what Anderson is looking on his next contract and how healthy he is as @Nuxfanabroad pointed out. Anderson and Horvat were teammates in London, so hopefully he could be a stable linemate for Horvat. The second trade doesn't work as well. Buffalo likely doesn't want Baertschi's contract and Leivo isn't a good enough piece to get them to take it considering he's a UFA this year. We're likely going to be stuck with Baertschi, even though I think he should be in the NHL still.
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That says a lot about how bad Horvat's production has been this year, especially at even strength.
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{REPORT} Bogosian has demanded a trade
Noble 6 replied to Squamfan's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I still can't get over how Buffalo added 3 good RDs in half a year (Montour, Miller and Jokiharju) while the rest of the league has such a difficult time finding them. -
My bad I thought Pettersson's bonuses from last year carried over as well for some reason. So 1.7 million for next year. I really don't like the idea of buying players out and having dead cap space. To me it signals desperation and a lack of preparation. I would much rather just get rid of Pearson, but management probably will just buy Baertschi out. I think we should bring someone in to specifically manage the cap. There seem to be too many little mistakes that could be cleaned up fairly easily but add up over time.
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Knee surgery is one thing. Knee surgery then back surgery then knee surgery is another thing. Juolevi likely has next to no value at the moment trade wise anyways. It's best just to keep him. On a side note, the Kings were patient with Vilardi's injury troubles as he missed almost 2 years. He's now back and playing in the AHL looking good. That's the best case for Juolevi.
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I agree with all of that, it's just really tough to trade a hometown kid, especially one who signed here willingly. It would be relatively impossible for me to trade him or Virtanen for that reason. I think they bring a different kind of energy to the room given their roots are in the city and the team. If it does come down to a hockey/business decision, I've been beating the Stetcher for Kapanen drum for a while now. Maybe we have to throw in a pick or something. Kapanen could FINALLY give us a consistent linemate for Horvat which has been the most infuriating thing for me the past 2 years.
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@mll Thank you for the information. As you said, it looks like Pettersson and Hughes will hit their all their bonuses, which would be 1.7 million. It doesn't look like Gaudette could hit any of those marks and shouldn't contribute much to the overage if at all. Pettersson's schedule B performances could bring it up as high as 3.7 million, but likely somewhere around 2.7 million. So it's actually somewhere around 3 million, is that right? It really makes me think that management intended for Baertschi to he claimed off waivers. He wasn't and now there will likely have to be a trade. I would like to get rid of Pearson.
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Rafferty showed very well at training camp and earned some praise from Benning. That combined with his small audition at the end of last year where he didnt look our of place in the NHL seems to have spiked his confidence and it's spilling into his play on the ice. There were relatively minor rumblings earlier this season that management may look to move on from Stetcher at the end of the year for whatever reason(s). I think Rafferty could step into bottom pairing minutes effectively next season in that spot, especially next to a veteran like Benn.
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$900,000 against the cap is considerable considering our current cap situation. With everyone healthy and our extra players sent down, we only have about 1.2 million in space, which isn't enough. Do you have any estimates for how much that could cost? Is somewhere around 1.5 - 2 million fair?
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This was from a couple days ago:
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Who could have seen that coming?
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Does anybody else find it weird that the news came directly from Benning? If it was an injury that Juolevi suffered in that game, wouldn't Cull or Johnson be the first to know and relay it to us? Makes me think that they either planned for this re-evaluation period in advance or that it's a significant injury and they had to report to the higher ups in Vancouver immediately.
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The bolded is where you're still missing my point. The main benefit of signing a Groavac level player is having flexibility when injuries hit in terms of call ups. You've made it clear that you don't think this is important, but there's a reason why one of Benning's main goals was to acquire sufficient depth at every position. He talked about how beneficial it would be to be able to call up Baertschi for an injury in the top 6. He has acquired depth for the most part, just not at center. There's no way a signing at this level would make any significant change on our Playoff chances. There's no way a signing at this level would be the difference between a prospect turning into Motte or Arvidsson.
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@GoldenAlien Same thing, just saving space. You're taking the point that @UticaHockey and I were making and blowing it way out of proportion. There's no way at all that signing someone like Groavac should be related to players like Tavares or Arvidsson in any way. The prospects that play in the AHL are guys who will more than likely be middle/bottom 6 contributors, not top line producers. With regards to depth, nobody is saying that a Groavac type player should be able to replace 100% of Sutter's on ice abilities. We're saying that if our centers get injured, we have someone who can play center available. Obviously the AHL player wouldn't be as good as the NHL player. That doesn't mean he's useless. It's about having the depth to be able to have roster flexibility in times of need, which we don't have at center and haven't had for the last couple of years. You know what's worse than playing an AHL center at center in the NHL? Playing a winger there, or an AHL winger, or a young player who isn't ready for it, etc. This is the overwhelming benefit that center depth provides, everything else is relatively insignificant compared to this. If the team wanted to address the lack of centers in the summer, they didn't have to sign Bailey or Perron and could have signed two centers instead. There you go, same number of contracts, but way better depth at that position. We already have an overflow of wingers anyway and it's much easier to play someone like Groavac on the wing than it is to play someone like Bailey at center. Again, flexibility. The Leafs signing all those players for the AHL goes a long way in building a winning environment and providing the luxury of being able to put their prospects in positions to succeed. Bracco lead the AHL in scoring last year and Sandin has been putting up incredible numbers because they are such a strong team. When the Comets started strong, Boucher and Lind were tearing it up and Lind was scoring at a pretty good rate. Boucher then missed some games and Lind's production plummeted. I get what you're saying about development vs. production, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. Why do you think that good AHL producers are far more likely to find any measure of success in the NHL than bad AHL producers? We're not trying to develop Lind into a Motte level player are we? And again, this isn't even the discussion that was being had. This is completely unrelated to having enough depth for callups in case of an injury. You took a simple point and blew it up way bigger than it was supposed to be by trying to justify a situation which could be fixed very easily. Prospect pools and 1st line players are unrelated to the topic being discussed.
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Fair enough on the not enough value for Detroit argument. One thing I would like to say though is that an asset like Goldobin has slightly more value once he clears waivers. If Detroit claimed him in October and decided to send him down, they would risk losing him for nothing. Now, Goldobin is already in the minors so they can call him up for 30 days or 10 games (not sure on the specifics but something like that) without fear of losing him for nothing. When I mentioned potentially moving the contract to a cap floor team like Ottawa, I didn't mean right now. Ottawa has 18 contracts expiring at the end of the year (including LTIR contracts like Callahan) and over 40 million in cap space. That would be the time to see if we can dump the contract there.
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This trade would be similar to the Neal - Lucic trade in that it is a swap of bad contracts hoping that the players involved can bring something new to the respective teams. Both player's contracts expire at the same time and the cap hits are comparable. To DET: Eriksson Goldobin 4th Round Pick 2020 To VAN: Nielsen Detroit takes the higher cap hit ($750,000 difference), but also saves around 5 million in actual salary for this year as Eriksson's base salary is 1M while Nielsen's is 5.5M. The remaining year's of the contract are fairly comparable with only a $500,000 difference in total salary, but Detroit saves big this year in terms of actual dollars. To sweeten the pot for taking the higher cap hit, they also get a relatively young forward with good numbers who's already in the AHL and a mid round pick. Eriksson could carve out a role by helping the league's worst penalty kill. Vancouver saves an extra $750,000 a year against the cap, which does help considering how tight against it we are. Nielsen brings more speed and versatility than Eriksson as he can player center or wing. Nielsen's contract would also be more attractive to a team like Ottawa trying to reach the cap floor in the offseason because he owed slightly less over the remainder of his contract. Being the more versatile player, he could also be more attractive to Seattle to take (along with other assets from the Canucks) for one year. If worst comes to worst he also has the more buyout friendly contract.
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You're talking about everything besides the point. Can you show me where in my post I was talking about cap space, prospect pools or the Playoffs? It looks like you saw the word Toronto and nothing else. I'm talking about signing 1-2 more players for Utica. Toronto signed 5 or so players specifically for the AHL this past summer. That's all I'm comparing.
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Sakic was going through the ringer in the media for like 8 months leading up to the Duchene trade. He waited until the season after his trade request to move him. They had one of the worst seasons in recent memory at that time as well. To be honest, the one person that deserves all the credit for the incredible turn around in Colorado is MacKinnon. I still think his 2017-18 is one of the best seasons by a player in recent memory for the way he single-handedly turned a franchise around by himself, similar to Karlsson's performance for Ottawa in the 2017 Playoffs. That Colorado team that finished last in the NHL traded away Duchene and MacKinnon still got them to the Playoffs. McDavid, as great as he is, still hasn't done that (although this could be the year it happens). He brought the best out of Rantanen and let him reach his ceiling while reviving Landeskog's play after a couple of down years. He was far and away the Hart trophy winner that year over Hall in my eyes. In an interview, he talked about how he got a sports psychologist before that year and how much it helped him. He was also watching Kucherov tear up the league, who was drafted a full round below him. Something clicked and he hasn't looked back. The effect that he had on an entire franchise by himself if truly mind boggling and I still don't think he get's enough credit for that. For me, he's an undisputed top 3 player in the league with Crosby and McDavid. Sakic had nothing to do with the actual turn around in Colorado, but he has done a fantastic job filling out the team now that MacKinnon has proven it's a worthwhile investment. He brought in a second line, filled out the team depth and added some high end pieces to the prospect pool in like 2 years while constantly having a large amount of cap space. They signed Rantanen for over 9 million this summer and still had way more cap space than us. They made a bunch of smart moves to bring in cheap, effective depth (emphasis on cheap) and essentially filled out the rest of the roster with players like Calvert, Donskoi, Kadri, Wilson, Burakovsky, Bellemare and Nieto. The most expensive player on that list is Kadri at 4.5M per, or essentially what we're paying Sutter. It doesn't matter if you're first or last in the league, you have to smart with your spending. This was way off topic for the Rathbone thread, sorry about that. Hopefully Rathbone continues his play in the NCAA for this year, signs in the summer and has a good year in the AHL next year.
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I would probably lean towards not offering Lockwood a contract anyway. A physical player with a bad shoulder isn't a good mix, especially when you add in relatively low IQ and production.
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That's definitely true, but surely it was possible to sign more centers than we did. We didn't have to go as far as signing 5 players, but an extra one or two would've made a difference.
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Do you really think it takes 5-ish years to get AHL depth? 5-ish years for prospect depth (while trading away picks) makes sense, but we're not talking specifically about prospects. The Canucks could have easily signed 1-2 more centers of the Chaput/Megna/Groavac variety, but haven't. Toronto does it every year; they signed like 5 player to one way contracts this offseason and buried them in the AHL for depth and to strengthen the team.