gameburn
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[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019
gameburn replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
I've never seen it called this before. You should copyright this... -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019
gameburn replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
I would agree with you every time. Except I watched this game. It's as if he lets people into the zone, then decides to push back, usually by hitting, sometimes by blocking shots. I am so conflicted by Edler. On the one hand, he has a nice feel for offense: getting pucks through, making key passes -- especially evident in overtime. And defensively he can hit like a truck while intercepting passes near to the net. And he will block shots -- often without taking an injury (wish Tanev would learn from this). And yet he concedes the zone on all rushes, seems to be on the ice for a zillion goals and is seen in replays as doing little more than waving at players in front of the net, usually way too late to make a difference. When he has the puck he is good. When he has a player in his sights, he is good. All the rest is rubbish. Reminds me of the sea change in soccer: fullbacks went from being big slow bruisers to fast play-makers who were almost wingers. -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019
gameburn replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
And the way they change lines: other teams are watching for this too. Green is too predictable. I give Green 10 more games and he is gone. -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019
gameburn replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
I don't care how many hits he had and especially don't care about the number of minutes. It's the way he plays: passive, passive, passive; "you take the puck and my partner will block the shot." "Unless I'm close enough to hit you, then I will." "Otherwise I hang out in front of the net waiting... for what, who knows?" Edler is playing great, if only it were 1998 again. He seems unable to chase, harass, close on players. This is what D have to do now. Look at how St Louis won the cup. They didn't give attacking forwards the time to make plays or take shots. They cut off plays, close on players quickly, made opposition player turn over pucks. Edler doesn't do any of this. He fades, he maneuvers, he blocks. It's like mortal combat vs. chess... I''ll take combat thanks. The answer to the Edler "problem" is always the same: put Edler in the position that will let him succeed (usually in the 4 to 6 range of the D depth.) This is actually below the standard we had for Hutton, who we let leave for nothing. Edler has to be REPLACED. Someone similar but who can play the faster game of today. My hopes are on Woo, others are betting on Juolevi (for the offensive side). Tryamkin would be an improvement too. -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019
gameburn replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
They have always preached the importance of a winning culture. If that is still true, then they have to address this game. Goaltending and penalties cannot be used as excuses in this debacle. Coaching, luck and player selection seem to be the issue here, in descending order. (Injuries play a bit of a role in player selection, but bring up Goldobin in place of more defensively reliable players is an issue.) -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019
gameburn replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
Oh my God, did he blame the players? -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019
gameburn replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
Rotiman's post was beautiful, much needed. This game was historic. I follow the Bundesliga as well as the Canucks. When Bayern Munich lost a game 5 to 1 against an inferior, they fired the coach. Bye bye Kovacs. The team had been uneven for a while, but the standards at Bayern are very high. Kovacs failed. Kovacs was ready to resign and more or less did. He knows what was expected. Vancouver finally has a world class team here... and we don't seem to understand what's expected. The coach did not adjust to the momentum of the game. He is used to losing, he accepts it. Not his fault, has seen a lot of it in the last 2 years. But this can't be the attitude now. -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019
gameburn replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
Between giving up early goals and not keeping leads... all made ugly by retreating into a 5-man shell? Has to be about the coach. All most of us ask is not to "retire" into a defensive shell. Play hard, play the way that got you the lead. Watch the Red Army team of the 1980 era. Or, Team Canada in Sochi. Same team I think, lol. -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019
gameburn replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
There was more good than bad in this game, I agree. But this isn't good enough. With our power play and core player group... something has to be better, we should have won this game and by two or three. -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019
gameburn replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
Your post is needed. It is easy to miss just how bad this one was. Takes an exasperated fan to remind us. Thanks. Edler is finished as a player. Not sure why this isn't being addressed by the team. I love what he has done for the team for years, but he no longer has it. Too slow, too passive. Too vulnerable. Boeser doesn't seem to have the intensity you need to defend, to get the puck back in your own zone. The whole team retreats into a shell as if they are killing a penalty. Just hopeless. So 1990s. Coach change all round. -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019
gameburn replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
You have to differentiate between the players and the management on this one. The players have to improve, see what they did that was not good enough. The management? Green has to go, the CULTURE has to improve. Standards, quality. -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019
gameburn replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
If this was the Bundesliga where the local fans own 51% of the team: what would you guys do to move the team forward from this catastrophic defeat? I can tell you what Bayern Munich did (the fans 51%) THEY FIRED KOVACS. Green has to go. -
[GDT] Nucks @ Pens 27/11/2019 - 4PM Pacific - Live on SNP
gameburn replied to xereau's topic in Canucks Talk
Consensus: time to get an experienced coach. And, as a bonus, someone who won't put the team in a defensive shell. -
[GDT] Nucks @ Pens 27/11/2019 - 4PM Pacific - Live on SNP
gameburn replied to xereau's topic in Canucks Talk
Babcock... Sometimes you get rid of a coach because he's lost the room... other times because you can find better (WD) other times because anyone can do better. Green... he has to go. Rotate him into the AHL if you really like him, I'm okay with that. But a REAL team needs a REAL NHL coach. This is so painful to watch. -
[GDT] Nucks @ Pens 27/11/2019 - 4PM Pacific - Live on SNP
gameburn replied to xereau's topic in Canucks Talk
Babcock. -
[GDT] Nucks @ Pens 27/11/2019 - 4PM Pacific - Live on SNP
gameburn replied to xereau's topic in Canucks Talk
Is Deb a girl, does it matter? I think "she" is (reminds me of my wife) but does she have to be a girl? Maybe, not sure... On the other hand... an ex can be a serious distraction... either gender. -
[GDT] Nucks @ Pens 27/11/2019 - 4PM Pacific - Live on SNP
gameburn replied to xereau's topic in Canucks Talk
There is a consensus on this... how long before Green is fired? I really think he is gone by February. Trading the first pick for Miller, and bringing in Ferland suggests that the team wants to make the playoffs and go on from there. Do you think Green can do it? I have my doubts. Your thoughts? -
[GDT] Nucks @ Pens 27/11/2019 - 4PM Pacific - Live on SNP
gameburn replied to xereau's topic in Canucks Talk
COULD NOT AGREE MORE. Caps help, but still not enough. -
[GDT] Nucks @ Pens 27/11/2019 - 4PM Pacific - Live on SNP
gameburn replied to xereau's topic in Canucks Talk
Edler has been bad for weeks now. Too passive, too slow. Time to move him out, get a quicker D up here. Juolevi's injury is the worst luck. Could have been here a month ago. Edler no longer suits the team. I wish we had the flexibility that leagues have who do not have the cap issue. They panic and find players. We have very very bad habits because we don't really have a lot of choice in mid-season. -
[GDT] Nucks @ Pens 27/11/2019 - 4PM Pacific - Live on SNP
gameburn replied to xereau's topic in Canucks Talk
Cannot hold a lead. Why? Very interesting problem. I think coaching and player selection is the problem, I could be wrong though. -
[GDT] Nucks @ Pens 27/11/2019 - 4PM Pacific - Live on SNP
gameburn replied to xereau's topic in Canucks Talk
The team is too good for the coach. Time to move the coach. Back to AHL. "Too passive." the commentators say. This is a coaching problem. Ferland and Sutter would help. But the coach's selection of players and what he says to them matters. -
Ferland… man, if he didn't exist, we would invent him lol. Power plays are not enough, you have to stand in there, play tough 5 on 5. Wow, do we miss him. And Roussel I guess.
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Jake has been underused, to say the least. The guy needs minutes, opportunity. I hate to say it, but he needs a new coach or maybe a new organization. With Green he is the "power forward who plays no pp, no pk, no critical minutes." Uggh. Every minute given to Leivo, Baertschi, Pearson, Eriksson (!!), is a minute that Virtanen is not getting. He needs minutes to augment his ferocity and intensity. He doesn't need AHL-style training on the defensive side of the game. He doesn't need "coaching". He needs real minutes. Unleash the guy. With his skill set he has to play serious minutes.
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I've never liked the way the team fades into a passive shell near the end of so many of the games they lead. I also don't like having Leivo and Baertschi (when he is not in the AHL) on pp when Virtanen is available -- it's really the same problem: about utilising players and building a winning team. About not being disabled by traditional thinking. I suspect that Green has an old school mentality that says the Beagle/Sutter/Edler types are good for defending, while the Pettersson/Hughes/Boeser types are for attacking. Just because a guy scores or is good at puck control doesn't mean he can't defend. He does the same by putting Beagle, Horvat and Sutter on D zone faceoffs and Pettersson on O zone faceoffs. Stupid, imo, because it is so easy to rush up the ice and change the game, it's so quick now in today's game. This same problem shows up in who starts the game: often it is the 3rd of 4th line that opens the game. Stupid. The Oilers used to do this at one point back in the days of Gretzky, until someone pointed out that you were probably losing a goal every two games by doing this! Especially bad in the playoffs when momentum and good starts are so important. Same with D zone starts. If you give the Beagles and Schallers a lot of the D zone starts, you will see less of the offensive players, and have less of a chance to change momentum. It also makes line changing an ordeal -- especially on the road! (How many penalties do we get for this, or give up scoring chances so that Green can rotate and change his lines/centers like mad.) A "bonus" to the over-use of defensive/faceoff guys is that you lose cohesion by having a different center with the line that is out there (unless you use the entire 3rd/4th line, which is even worse.) It is also shocking to see Schaller and Leivo get more ice time than Virtanen. On a team that needs goal scoring you keep one of our few bona fide scorers on the bench? Get enough penalties (for or against) and guys like Virtanen don't see the ice for half a game. Pettersson and Boeser don't kill penalties, same issue, nor does Virtanen or Hughes very much. Hopeless. Watch a team like the Leafs use Marner killing penalties and you see what's missing with the Canucks. I didn't like the way the Sedins sat for minutes on end while the other guys killed penalties. TEACH THE BETTER PLAYERS HOW TO PLAY IN ALL SITUATIONS. DON'T SPECIALIZE TOO MUCH. And, find a way to have your best/core players play the majority of the minutes. Same with the way that some of the D defend. All the shot blocking is part of the same passive D thinking -- i.e., a symptom of a problem not a sign of good defending. You'll notice that Hughes finds ways to defend without making himself a pincushion for pucks or taking a bunch of holding/slashing/tripping penalties while defending. Nor does Stech or the many other quick D around the league. My guess is that Woo and Juolevi do more of what Hughes does and less of the stuff that Edler and Tanev do. At least I hope so. We are starting to see the return of the old Edler, the one from 2 or 3 years ago: too passive, too slow on rushes, and way too many penalties. Keep him for the second power play (he is actually a better attacker than a defender) and restrict his minutes to 15 a game. And rest him on back to backs. Or move him. Moving him to another team works for me too.
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It's the same problem every team has which has an Edler or a Muller (Bayern Munich in the Bundesliga) -- a senior player and leader. Very difficult to transition them to a smaller role. I think it has to be done. A new coach would have no problem with this imo. Not saying we should get a new coach. Playing a 5-man retreat isn't working. You see how Edler and to a certain extent Benn and Myers retreat to the box... just a disaster, allows the other team to set up a pp when there isn't actually a pp. Horvat has been coached to do this, so have some of the others. Not good.