GoBoGo53

not a good signing thusfar but maybe he can turn it around. A lot of Jets fans though were happy to see him gone and we can kinda see why now

How is this an opinion? It's a model.

Are people seriously trying to argue that Virtanen is better than Ehlers/Nylander? Those two are elite first line forwards. Quite embarrassing that someone would even think Virtanen is better

He had a terrible draft +1 in the WHL, a terrible draft +2 in the NHL (albeit he was rushed, not his fault), a terrible world juniors, and a terrible draft+3 season. I have no idea how you can even write something like your last sentence and have anyone take you seriously. Of course he's been a disappointing 6th overall pick. Jake needs to show progress in order to be taken seriously as a prospect. He hasn't. He came into last year out of shape, which is completely on him. He didn't take hockey seriously enough, obviously. He still has the same issues that he's had since junior, and the same thing that has plagued him at the professional level: he has little hockey IQ, at all. He doesn't put himself in good enough positions to be an effective offensive player, he doesn't drive a line, and the physical aspect of his game that was supposed to be his calling card has been missing since his Hitmen days. Again, you are citing a couple very specific examples of players that actually panned out to be solid NHL'ers. However if you look at the list of comparable point producers from their first 3 years after being drafted, Virtanen's comparables show a player that is a bottom 6 forward rather than a top 6 guy. For every player like Doan or Bertuzzi that someone brings up, there are dozens of more players that didn't pan out. So many people are disappointing with Jake because not only has he been a disappointment in his own development, i.e producing offense at a poor AHL level, he also has been disappointing relative to his peers right after he was selected. I can't remember how many arguments I had with other Canucks fans after Jake was drafted arguing Ehlers/Nylander were too small, nothing special, would get pushed around etc. After drafting Boeser, Juolevi and Pettersson, 3 players who are extremely skilled and similarly built to Nylander/Ehlers, those people have changed their tune.

Lias Anderson (NYR), Erik Brannstrom (VGK), Timothy Liljegren (TOR), Sam Steel (ANA), Joran Kyrou (STL) were all fantastic today. Steel, Anderson, and Kyrou in particular. Petterson wasn't very noticeable. It is a summer game so who cares really but I would have liked to see him dominate against players his own age.

I think this is a really good, fair post. Anderson may not have the high end skill of a Pettersson, but he showed he can snipe and play a really good complete game. Completely agree with your assessment on Liljegren. It's clear he is very, very raw. But the tools as you mentioned talent wise are too good to ignore. You can coach out those bad plays out of him, but the elite skating, shot and hands/passing are impossible to teach. I agree with the Kessel/Mittlestadt comparison. It's a good one. I think Casey doesn't have the shot that Phil does, but the playmaking, speed, and vision is there. He's very raw defensively.

Petterson is playing on the third line with Bratt and Karlstrom in 10 minutes vs Canada.

Yeah he was clearly dealing with something, he's not at 100% but still looked decent. Off topic but Casey Mittelstadt (BUF), Lias Anderson (NYR) and Timothy Liljegren (TOR) looked really, really good. Three standouts for me.

it would be a terrible idea. You wouldn't get much for him anyway. Keep him, coach him, and hope it works out.

And again, even if the examples given of Neely, Bertuzzi, Primaeu were accurate, those are cherrypicking the very best case scenerios for Virtanen. There are hundreds of examples of players that put up similar numbers to Virtanen (thus far, he can still turn it around of course) and don't amount to much at the NHL level. In fact, given his production so far, it's far more likely he turns out to be a 4th liner than he is to become a Bertuzzi/Neely type player. That isn't hating on Virtanen, that is using comparables to judge that there is a far greater likelihood of Virtanen being a 4th liner than Bertuzzi just by the shear numbers of his closest production comparables. Take a look at Oskar Lindbolm, Philly prospect taken in the same draft as Virtanen (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=86181) same age as well. HIs production suggests he is much more likely to become a top 6 forward than Virtanen. Point being for every Bertuzzi, there is 10 or more powerforwards that don't pan out.

it's the truth. We clearly didn't value elite skill at the time, or we would have taken Nylander. Petterson has elite skill. Overjoyed to see them take this direction.

exactly this, wish we had Nylander but lets just be happy that we see the franchise values elite skill over "meat and potatoes"

completely agreed.

Said this would be a good pick from a long time ago. Great to see the Canucks chose skill over size. That's what lead us to take Virtanen over Nylander. This is great. Ecstatic.

Rewatching some of the Knights games recently, I can't help but notice how good Victor Mete is (100th overall, MTL 2016). I'm beginning to question who is the better defenseman between Mete and Juolevi, and talking to some of the Knights fans and season ticket holders they were about equal this season.

Disagree. I haven't seen many players develop hockey IQ over time. It's either something you have, or you don't. Virtanen doesn't.

I get where you are coming from, but Nylander played in the 2nd tier of swedish hockey for more than half of the draft year. People on CDC wouldn't have seen him because nobody really watches 2nd tier swedish hockey. It's part of the reason he fell to 8 when he's likely a top 2 talent. that's on the scouts of every team who passed on nylander because they get paid the big bucks to watch these guys.

And the Canucks will never win in Vancouver. Fun to use crystal balls isn't it? I like talking using facts, not hypotheticals.

how dare that name be mentioned in this thread! Nylander doesn't have an ounce of the heart that Virtanen does! All Nylander does is produce offense at an elite pace! /s be prepared to be endlessly told how useless Nylander will be in the playoffs my friend. Happens everytime Nylander gets brought up as if people on CDC can predict that an elite hockey player won't produce in the playoffs somehow.

Virtanen's low hockey IQ goes beyond poor fitness. He doesn't think the game in the same way other picks around him do. Ehlers, Draisaitl, Reinhart, Nylander all have elite hockey IQ and can drive offense. Plays die on Virtanen's stick quite frequently, and I can't remember how many times he skates in and aimlessly shot it at the goalie's crest. Or in the World Juniors with Canada on the powerplay, he takes a stupid penalty to negate the man advantage. Or his poor use of his team mates in general. It's the primary thing holding him back and has been a problem his whole career, a major reason guys like Button had him ranked in the 2nd round. Speaking of Nylander, he just won MVP of the world championship. Gonna regret that pick for the next 10 years atleast. shame.

The big red flag in your post is you saw Cal Clutterbuck in Virtanen at the draft. I have no idea why anyone would ever draft a player like that at 6, especially when guys with huge ceilings like Ehlers and Nylander are available, both look like superstars.

If he made the 1st team, OHL MVP, CHL MVP, was named best CHL D, etc etc we would all care.

OHL all star teams released. Juolevi didn't make either the 1st or 2nd team. Sergachev made the 2nd team. Confirms what most of us thought, Juolevi didn't really take a big step forward this season.

Fair enough. Nice having a reasonable discussion without getting flamed. Look through my post history. I've said plenty positive about the Canucks. I'm as big a fan as you are. I like the future of this team. I just think Virtanen wasn't a good pick, and saying stuff like "Nylanders and Ehlers come around every draft" is the dumbest thing I've read on these forums.

This is a good post. Dangling someone at your own blue line is the most risky play in hockey. It's a breakaway if it doesn't work out. That's why Nylander is so special, he has the confidence and skill to make the play. And I completely agree with the bolded. My video post wasn't intended to troll. It was just to counter the point that you can find players like Nylander in every draft. It's not possible