BoeserSnipe

Yep a player's drive is all because of a coach, not because he wants to be a successful professional athlete., lets keep changing coaches because little jakey is sad and pouty because he has to play hard - again you ignore the fact that Green seemed to be having progress with him last year, so clearly its not coaching is it? First wilie, ok remove willie and use the coach that got through temporarily, and guess what, Jake is the same kid...maybe he's just lazy....its not the coach it the player SMH dude - not sure if you're a troll or what but if not you've never played a sport in your life other than lawn bowling What's the most odd here, is not once have you even suggested Jake has responsibilty for his own effort, all deflection, all blame...is that you Jake?

Yes you're right, a furry puppet on CDC knows more lol SMH - good night man your comments are beyond stupid

Yes you're right, the responsibility of playing hard doesn't fall on the player, its really on the coach to physically move Jake's his legs for him (WTF are you on man) - I am not even talking about lack of offensive production. I am talking about things 100% in his control. Effort, skating, playing physical, trying to be a difference maker without scoring every shift - anyone objective watching his play can see he's doing pretty much nothing As I said, its not hard for Jake to play as hard as Gaunce, to play that same game, and given he's on the fourth line, that's all that's being asked of him, and he can't even do that. Effort is internal. Your comments are absurd

A player can play like matt martin if they had no coaching friend. I played at a high level, simply using your motor and working hard is easy. His lack of effort is not because of overcoaching 1. With Willie it was the coaches fault 2. Green seemed to be making inroads with him in Utica 3. Green is now the coach and he's doing the same thing as he did with Willie - being a passenger 4. But somehow, its the coaches fault again IF Green was making improvements in his game in Utica, and was doing a good job coaching, well Green is still the coach. The constant in the scenario above is Jake being lazy with 2 coaches and one that was credited for helping him prior. Green has been sitting him now, so...when do you people start putting the onus on the player to show he wants to be in the league vs blaming the coaches?

Hockey isn't brain surgery guys....smh- its a damn game he's played all his life He's lazy

To play and straight up and down 200 ft game doesnt take much hockey IQ buddy, it takes effort, that's all. When are people here going to actually place his lack of effort on him, vs 'overcoaching' Give that nonsense a rest. So because Green is telling him to play defense it means he can't work as hard as other players? He can't work as hard as Burr or Hansen did as they came into the league? Is it 'too hard' or the coaches fault that he can't play as hard as say Matt Martin? Or Gaunce Apologists on this site for Virtanen's indifferent play, either don't know hockey or are such fan boys they are biased, you cannot objectively say he's giving his all. Is that why he saw barely any ice that last few games in the third? A player has a choice to want to contribute or not, he is choosing not to contribute its that simple

So, to play good defense he can't forcheck? LOL... Maybe Bo, Granny, Sutter, etc should do the same then? WOW SMH

Agree with all you've said but bert had shown some pretty strong offensive play in his first two years and took a step back in year three. Given we gave up a 27 yr old Linden, clealry he was seen as having alot of potential. My issue and many here is that the effort to make a difference every night is not there. He has the tools to impose his will on other players with his speed and physicality but I seldom see him as the first man in, throwing a hit, etc. That's effort nothing else

You can’t say what he is I agree but you Cannot also ignore “trajectory”. Many people use the Bertuzzi example or say “power forwards take time to develop”, and sure every player is different. However, what you need to see is a player making significant improvements in key facets of his game, and see “it coming”. Bert was inconsistent in his earlier years but there was still enough of an upward trajectory to see he could hopefully put it together. Virtanen hasn’t shown that whatsoever and one could argue this season he actually looks worse as he’s not really doing anything to show he belongs, and the effort to try and make a difference just isn’t there. would people be on Jake if he was working as hard as Gaunce? Maybe a few but many would say “ok I see the effort, and with that effort over time, hopefully the talent emerges”. But he’s not. hes trending a lot more like kassian in Buffalo and here than he is Bertuzzi

That's a very low hurdle/ benchmark. And my comment was in response to the idea that trading him would risk another neely type situation. It won't . This kid is on the path of Kassian and will be lucky to even reach the level Kassian has, with his indifference to being a pro It seems he's happier to be 'seen as a pro athlete', vs actually doing the hard work to actually be one. That is evident by his effort on the ice. I suspect if he doens't find a way to start contributing this year, it may be his last as a Canuck as he wont be able to clear waivers next year, and he certainly hasn't earned a spot in the lineup and each year, hungrier players step in and are willing to compete for spots. Jake plays the game like he thinks he's earned the rope the twins have.

poll some of those who were around at the time and who were Canucks fans- Neely was seen as a game changer through his physical and intimidating play alone as a rookie - not to mention the 21 goals he scored as a rookie in 56 games buddy - it was seen as an awful trade right at that time, choose to accept that or not but asking around will tell you something. and the point was, Virtanen is not close to Neely in ANY manner irrespective of your choice to accept my analysis or not, simply look at the point totals, pims, go look at some of the youtube videos of his play as a canuck etc, and see for yourself. No one saw Neely becoming a 50 goal player, but those of us around saw a unique talent that was already PROVING he was a game changer as a rookie. Virtanen has not shown he even wants to be in the game in his D+3 year.

I remember the Neely trade. most who understood the game saw the deal as a rape by Boston when it happened. perhaps you’re too young, but I remember how angry I was. Neely came into the league as a rookie and was hitting, scoring at a decent pace, intimidating, and beating the crap out of anyone. You could see he was a force and was going to at worst be (comparatively) someone like What he had in Bert after him. He was breaking out offensively in his third year with the Nucks and to trade him at 21 plus our first round pick, when we sucked, for a 27 yr old small center was absurd. it was an awful trade even at that time, not knowing what he would become. It’s a VERY different situation than Virt. Virt is in his Draft + 3? year and has shown no signs of being even a solid AHLer yet.

No one here is saying he’s our “main problem”. We’re saying he’s not showing the drive to want to be a NHL player and certainly not showing material signs of being anything other than a fringe NHL at best. I would argue he’s not even shown that to date.

He hasn’t earned freedom given a lack of effort. Anyone can see he’s not giving it every night- effort is easy. You don’t reward a kid for how he played in his draft year, you reward him for what he shows now. Why should he get special treatment relative to Bo? Bo proved he deserved more ice, he proved he deserved PP time. That’s what professional teams expect and if he can’t deal with that and wants to play like a pansy - go to Europe. Sick of all the apologists for this kids lack of drive and effort. Does he have all the tools to be a great player yes, but I question his desire to actually be a pro.

Kid you dont get it...good luck You seem to be the type who'd answer 2+2= 3 on a math test, give a long answer, spin yourself into confusion, then argue with your math teacher for 8 hours because he explains to you 2+2 = 4.... I am sorry you are confused Oh and by they way 14 mil if we retain 50% on one of the twins = 2.625 mil. If a team has 2.625 in cap space they can acquire the twins its THAT DAMN SIMPLE - NOT SURE WHY YOU CANT UNDERSTAND THIS There are 2 numbers you need - and this is PROVEN by the NHL.com link i gave you 1. What is the cap space left - see the link I provided 2. What is the remaining cap hit the team is assuming - in this case 2.625 mil (assuming 50% retention on one twin) 3. If a team has cap space > 2.625 mil they can aquire the twins - they dont need your funky math you've spun yourself into and 14 mil 4. There are many teams that will have 2.625 mil of cap space Move along- i am done proving you wrong

but you stated they need 14 mil not 14 mil prorated right? you're playing fun with numbers guy. 2.65 mil is 2.65 mil. if a team has that room they can aquire the twins they dont need 14 mil its THAT SIMPLE - 3.5 mil in cap space is not hard for many teams - many have close to that space already or could make room. There are very few teams that couldn't afford the twins if we retained 50% on one of them move along, tired of repeating myself when I am right. Here's the list AGAIN of projected cap space https://www.capfriendly.com/

no they dont - try reading the link i provided it spells it out for you

the point is an acquiring team doesn't need 14 mil in cap space as you suggested.

Not sure what you mean by 'Banked cap space' but a team acquiring the twins would NOT need 14 mil in cap space friend - my math was correct. The hit to the cap is 'whats left' of their salary/ cap hit for the year /contract which we know ends this season). https://www.nhl.com/news/trade-deadline-q-a/c-409700

can retain up to 50% (you are correct) for up to three players and i see we have Lou and Hansen so you're right. Math then 1.75 for Henrik (50% retained) = 875k 1.75 for Daniel (none retained) = 1.75 mil total =2.625 mil - many teams still have space left and we can always take a player back and for 2 players thats not alot. Thanks for clarifying

I agree, I think they want to see what the Canucks thoughts are and they may pull a Burrows and throw the organization a bone by being good soldiers here to help the future. Then resign one year contracts in july for next year

We can retain salary, they go to a contender for cheap, we get some picks and prospects, they come back in July on one year deals at 2.5 each and we've helped the rebuild - Many teams would love them for cheap salary as 2b/3rd liners. Imagine adding them to Tampa, Anaheim, San Jose, New Jersey etc? Don't forget teams are only on the hook for the 'remaining cap', so at the end of the year its not alot and if we retain say 75% most teams in the playoffs could have a shot at them. https://www.capfriendly.com/ Here's some guestimate math. By trade deadline there is what, 25% of the season left? So 25% of 14 mil is only 3.5 mi for both players to your cap. hit. $3.5 mil opens alot of teams to the twins and if the nucks retain even 1/2 of that its only 1.75 mil for TWO players....every team w cap space would make a call.

Jake played LW in junior and was much more effective on his off wing "offensively" - I take your point though as they are playing him on his strong side in the pros. That being said it may be simply to make it easier on him initially as he's focusing on developing his defensive positional play and they dont want him even thinking offense right now. When he's proven he can 'play the way they want him to' - he may get a chance to get back to that more offensive role and thus its plausible to see him back on his offwing. That being said, depth wise, it is better to have size on both wings so time will tell what they do with him. I agree he's being played as a RW but don't forget he was a LW in junior where he was potting alot of goals!

That's a hell of a team if the young prospects can reach those levels of play! I like, but I'd like to see Labate/Dowd on the 4th line. Lockwood is a maybe to make the NHL and if he does his role is likely a 3rd liner who can swing up to a 2W if required. I see him as depth if he even makes it. Love that first line, and would still like to see Granny around - He reminds me alot of Hansen - less physical but does all the same things Hansen did just as well, and has slightly better hands.