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[Discussion] Do You Have the Stomach For a Rebuild?
EP Phone Home replied to Warhippy's topic in Canucks Talk
It would’ve helped balance the club no doubt about it had we traded Miller. But even then I have had my reservations with the pipeline on our Defence. While acquiring more help on the backend for the here and now, I still think we need 3-4 blue chip Dmen in our system. That doesn’t happen overnight and definitely takes 3-4 years before they have an impact on the club. We need a top pair *RSD that can play with Hughes *A LD replacement for OEL *A RSD to replace Myers *Another RSD for depth or trade chip for other areas to improve. All that takes both a lot of picks to get right and then development. So to answer your question if I have wanted a rebuild, earlier in the summer. I didn’t want to sound like a negative Ned, but also maybe management found a way to get a gem or two from a trade or a 2nd round pick. But the holes on Defence for me have been a concern since we lost Tanev,Stetcher in the off-season of 2020. It takes a long time to build a defence and we have neglected it so far. My heart will always belong to this team and of course I have the best intentions for this club. Sometimes you cheer with your heart and it gets broken. But deep down in the noggin of mine I sort of had the sense that to do this correctly we needed a proper rebuild. But I wanted to be wrong, still do! It’s just not a happy place for us fans right now. But the heartbeat of my passion for this will always be there. Accepting it is the first step. I think lots of fans are coming to this realization now and most are open for it. And that is a true fanatic my friend! Cheers Spook007 -
[Discussion] Do You Have the Stomach For a Rebuild?
EP Phone Home replied to Warhippy's topic in Canucks Talk
100% He has to come out and say it. It HAS to be words that come out of Francisco’s mouth that will give fans the trust and belief again. Like you said perfectly, fans are disenchanted and feeling hopeless right now. To be so stubborn to try and trick the hockey fanbase again with this numb narrative of retool on the fly will have grave repercussions on him and his franchise. FA has to know that it was in this moment he knew, he f***** up. -
[Discussion] Do You Have the Stomach For a Rebuild?
EP Phone Home replied to Warhippy's topic in Canucks Talk
As a season ticket holder for 6 years. I bought my tickets when I thought that this team was going to be going through a rebuild to be honest. I trusted Trevor and was good with building towards a new core to replace the twins. However with the exception of the 2017 trade deadline where we did trade assets for prospects and a pick (Hanson trade for Goldy and a 4th & Borrows for Dahlen) we just have never done it. We’ve been in a position in the standings that rebuilding teams are in,(without our allotted picks because of trades) in spite of signing free agents and spending to the cap and trading picks for project players like Vey, Dickinson) instead of keeping our picks and trying to acquire more. This has been frustrating as a STH. I love the Demko’s Petterson’s and Hughes’s that this team has come away with. But it’s not nearly enough and the message of “retool on the fly” has made me feel numb and gives me a feeling of mistrust with the direction of the team. We heard those words from Trevor/Benning in 2014 and we just heard them again from JR on Saturday night. I bought season tickets because: 1. They were easy to come by because the team wasn’t as much of a contender as the late 2000’s teams -2013. 2. But most importantly I wanted to see this core grow and rise back into contention status. To have these talented boys become leaders. As a fan you just want hope and a clear organization direction. We don’t see either of those elements with this team at the moment. Ownership HAS to recognize that you can’t force a team to be competitive, these are the results of impatience and cutting corners. I need to hear it from FA’s own mouth (something he has never publicly said) that we are indeed doing a proper rebuild. Will be accumulating picks and prospects and doing this the right way. No more stopgaps, big spending in free agency or JT Miller trades for picks until we have a full competitive core. If we can’t do that, I am sorry but I will not renew my season tickets. I’ve given up so much of my time attending and thousands of dollars each year for false hope and misdirection. I’m sure like myself, we feel like we’ve been duped. P.S. If ownership allowed Trevor to be able to do a proper rebuild back in 2018 we would’ve been out of the darkness right about now. But we (the ownership collective WE) have to acknowledge and pivot that this team’s direction must change. Or to try and fool the fanbase again who already are semi checked out and have lost trust in the organization. If ownership/management double/triple/quadruple down on the retool on the fly narrative, no question will cause further fallout with attendance and merch sales, you can take that to the bank Spook007. -
[Discussion] Do You Have the Stomach For a Rebuild?
EP Phone Home replied to Warhippy's topic in Canucks Talk
Yes I would. I have been ready for one for as long as the Sedins have been retired. We have 3 core pieces to build around. But that’s not nearly enough. We need 3-5 young blue chip D men because we only have one that’s under 24 that can play in our top 4. It’s a sad state that management has neglected. As OP has said on many occasions, START DRAFTING RD! We are so pathetic when it comes to this. You either have to overpay in FA or trade major assets to get them on your team. So tired of us not addressing this issue but if we actually kept our 2nd rounders, accumulated more picks (something we never do) then we can speed up the process and it would be a rebuild. We have never done so in the almost 20 years that Francisco has owned the team. This is my big concern about this topic. It’s not the fanbase that cannot stomach a rebuild but it’s the ownership. It always has been. Since he has taken ownership of this team he has had the best years (and competitive window as the OP has stated) in franchise history. So of course he wants to continue with that sellout streak in those times, non stop playoff revenue and top 10 franchise value. But all teams need to go through the pain of a true rebuild and until ownership can look in the mirror and admit that Trevor was right and we need a proper build, then we are just doomed to repeat the same mistakes from the last 10 years. Fans will put up with a rebuild because it gives us hope and direction. Fans will no longer put up with this mediocre mushy middle shit anymore. It’s time to break the chain and embrace the pain the right way. I get a laugh when people say that draft picks are magic beans, and you look at the teams that accumulated a bunch of them and now are a beanstalk rising up standings past us that’s “retooling on the fly” but hey magic beans. We are too good for those apparently. -
Isn’t it interesting that the mandate of making the playoffs remains the same between the two managements? It’s like the narrative hasn’t changed after all these executive changes. Perhaps it’s the guy who owns the team that’s to blame for a lack of vision and direction… Nah let’s just change the players, coaches and management chairs again. I’m sure we will construct a contender without a rebuild right? Throw more sh!t at the wall, one of these days it’s gotta stick right? RIGHT?!
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Totally. Fans have a right to be upset that the standards of “just making the playoffs and anything can happen” is just not a end goal any franchise should end. Where as Trevor Linden in the summer of 2018 stepped away from the team because Benning and Francisco wanted a to chase the playoffs instead of a taredown. Well procrastinating that proper rebuild and double downing this pretender status of retooling on the fly has just caused more impatience in the fan base. Some people say that this market can’t stomach a proper rebuild. I call that bullsh!t because fans can see the direction that the team is going in. They can see growth and hope. In this teams state, where is the hope? Where is the direction other then the same numb narrative that just squeezing into a wild card spot is good enough. Fans (not all but most) are not stupid and have seen the same movie for the last 10 years. We are done with this mediocre mandate and would be in favour of a REAL REBUILD, one that has us accumulate as many picks and prospects as the teams like Chigago, LA, Anaheim and others have done but not us, never us. That is the man at the tops issue and fans have a right to be frustrated and upset.
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[PGT] Buffalo Sabres at Vancouver Canucks | Oct. 22, 2022
EP Phone Home replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
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[PGT] Buffalo Sabres at Vancouver Canucks | Oct. 22, 2022
EP Phone Home replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
Nothing to see here but your blue and green vision of forever mediocrity FA -
That’s just not good enough to call it a Stanley cup winning core. The issue that has been with this team for a long while is we haven’t kept up with drafting a steady flow of defensemen. Sure Hughes would be considered a #1 or #2 D man but we need at least 3 more 25 and under blue chip prospects on the blueline. We are wasting Hughes talent by not having a legit right side D man to give us a true top pair. Where is our OEL replacement? How about Myers in two seasons from now? Remember how deep that 2011 blueline was and how banged up we were and still lost? We are nowhere close to being that deep and this is exactly why fans are pissed at the neglect of the backend since the bubble. We have gotten worse every year since. So while we do have some pieces to build around I’m not convinced we have enough of a core to win it all yet. All that said and yet we need a true shutdown 3C as well on top of the blueline. We are aways to go but it’s going to be hard to blow things up with so many contracts and money committed. We are sort of stuck, with capped out roster, not a lot in the pipeline for prospects and we don’t have our allotment of draft picks. Some of it is on this current managements moves this summer to hold onto some of bennings players like Boeser and Miller. But a lot of the lack of cap space and bare prospect pool is absolutely bennings doing. Fans want hope and direction to believe and entrust the team again.
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The only thing I will agree with what you said is, we needed to draft a RHD or more and we didn't and you're right we would only draft 5th overall even if we were the worst team this year. The issue that has always been in the last three management regimes is that no GM or POHO was allowed to do a complete rebuild due to impatient ownership. MG wanted one in 2013, Trevor wanted one in 2018 and I can't speak for this new management but they have doubled down on benning's roster so they don't appear to be thinking tare down rebuild either. It should be clear to anyone that as long as FA is the owner, this franchise will not do what teams like Chicago, LA or Pittsburgh (in the early 2000's) did. No team is immune to it but the man upstairs thinks otherwise. The result is a middling team that is stuck spinning it's tires in mediocrity.
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[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Minnesota Wild | Oct. 20, 2022
EP Phone Home replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
I mean this is the best draft talent pool since 2003 and we all know how spectacular that draft was. If there was ever a time to load up on picks. This would be the year to do it. Would love to see it but I’m skeptical from previous regimes that were never about accumulating picks. It has to start somewhere, it has to start sometime what better place then here what a better time then now? -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Minnesota Wild | Oct. 20, 2022
EP Phone Home replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
Hope you’re happy with your team Francisco. This is the consequences of cutting corners and not rebuilding like TL wanted in the summer of 2018. No team is immune to a rebuild. This is just absurd. No other words to say except… -
This will be my last season being a STH until ownership changes hands. Doesn’t seem to matter what management, coaches, players come in and out. The mandate remains the same. At some point you have to come to terms that this ownership is too impatient to go through the pain of accumulating draft picks and being at the bottom of the standings for 3-4 years. Spending to the cap is great, when it’s time to contend. When the Sedins retired that was the time to have a rebuild. We doubled down, triple downed with the Miller and Boeser signings this off season. Honestly I feel like a fool paying thousands of dollars for a pretender. Love is blind and we all love this team to succeed. Unfortunately the status quo is not attractive to spend my hard earned money anymore. When the love is gone you must move on
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Connor Bedard is the dawn! You always know what to say Spur.
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Not really on topic but… Trevor Linden was right about wanting a real tare down rebuild. We know who stopped it and 5 years later I really wonder where this team would be if FA listened to the President of hockey operations and constant congenital Canuck’s legend. We won’t ever see him again with the team until the man up top parts with the club. And that’s a real shame. I guess where I was going with this is that the owner has a rotten residue/reputation and this is just another case of it on the growing pile that proves, he is a prolific POS of a human being… but he spends to the cap right?
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Predict The Score Contest: VAN @ CBJ Oct 18 2022
EP Phone Home replied to goalie13's topic in Canucks Talk
Canuck’s win 10-4 A sign of the club saying it’s all good 10-4 ol buddy. seriously have no idea. Just want a W -
You are right, we are being irrational Spur1. Nothing to see here, just give some more patience and let the chefs cook as great things come to those who wait right? We should’ve not fired Benning and allowed him to work on his 10 year masterpiece delish dish. In all honesty can you really blame the fanbase when the trust is no longer with this franchise? How much rope should we give to see this through? Honest question. 52 years of no cup championship isn’t this current managements problem. But doubling down on the team that Benning built and didn’t improve the mess that is our D corps? No question Benning screwed the pooch on this teams cap structure and competitive window. This is where our frustrations are coming from. Things are bleak and people are pissed. It’s a beautiful sky outside today but it’s not falling. Canuck’s on the other hand are caving in and digging a hole really quickly. From the last two starts this team has had and all the talk of the team having a good start, can you really blame them seeing us fall behind in the standings already? Cheers Spur
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100% bang on WH. I’ve been asking myself this for awhile as to why have we only drafted less then 10 RHD since 2004. Is it that we don’t have the scouts that have an eye for RSD talent? I don’t know what the reason is but it’s been unacceptable for a long time now. We are about to retire the best right side D we ever drafted in 5th round pick Kevin Bieska. That’s it he’s the best we have ever had. We have a glaring hole on this roster and in the farm on RD. And yourself, myself and many others on here have been swearing about this issue for awhile now. And for the crowd who justifies the lack of this position says “It takes 3-4 years to develop these defensemen” So don’t do it at all? Here are the results, 14 GA in 3 games to start yippee. 100% on the owner and how “rebuild” is not in his vocabulary (Goeff Courtnall’s words not mine) and FA should have always entrusted Trevor Linden and his vision to rebuild the team. He did not because he wanted to fast track it so he could make the playoffs and get his playoff revenue for a few home games. Trevor linden was right, and the last 5 years since he left proves this. Until ownership learns to let the hockey people do the hockey priorities (such as a rebuild) we are DOOMED to REPEAT the same cycle we have been stuck in since we had the 2011 core. I would even say that we haven’t ever had a rebuild since FA has been owner. We are just like every other team when the time comes to rebuild. This mandate from the top just refuses to acknowledge it. That’s where most of the frustration is coming from the fanbase. The trust is gone.
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Trevor Linden was right. That is all.
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The sun rose up this morning and it’s another fantastic beautiful October day out in Vancouver. I hope you all enjoy it.