Patel Bure

My biggest beef with him (and that site in general), is that they gave the Canucks no credit whatsoever due to their hatred of Benning. 1) The Canucks started 9-3-3 that season only due to a butter soft schedule. #NoCredit 2) Again, that January 2020 situation. Canucks won almost every game that month if memory serves me correctly, and yet the guys there attribute all/most of our victories to Markstrom, despite the fact that the Canucks were racing out to leads in almost every single one of those games. Is it possible that our bottom 10 analytics had more to do with the fact that we were playing an ill-advsied shut down game upon racing out to those leads (which then lead us to being dominated possession wise, etc.). 3) Before the 2020 covid outbreak, we won 2 of our last 3 games against the NYI and Colorado (two teams that finished in the 2nd round that year). Yes we were slumping, but it's also possible that we were starting to turn things around. We were tightening up defensively and were displaying much better gap control in those last 4 games, and Demko was starting to look like bubble Demko. The main point? We don't know what would have happened had the season gone on............and yet everyone at HF just automatically assumed that we would miss the playoffs because they hated Benning? Want proof? A year later in 2021, we went 8-3-2 in our best stretch of the year before our team covid outbreak. Oddly enough, this 8-3-2 run happened after Pettersson got injured. Did anyone at HF speculate that we might have caught the #4 seed had we not had the outbreak? (just as they speculated about our playoff aspirations in 2020 before the covid outbreak?). No. Why? Because - they hate Benning. 4) You talk about "unsustainable bottom six production" and yet the posters on there were slamming Benning for overpaying their 3rd and 4th liners. So which is it? 5) We had out of world goaltending but who cares? When Buffalo went to the cup in 99, they had out of this world goaltending. The Kings and Bruins had out of this world goaltending when they won their cups. That's why teams invest in goaltending. 6) Tantalum's assessment that we were getting dominated possession wise and were giving up high danger chances in 19-20 was only a half truth because those situations were only occurring after the Canucks would race out to leads (to which they would then play a dumb shut down style of hockey). The "metrics" were a whole lot different before the Canucks would actually race out to these leads. That was what I called out tantalum on.

Makes sense. Throwing a line of Miller-Horvat-Boeser Podkolzin-Pettersson-Garland Would have made a lot of sense but I guess we know why this has happened. I'm more disappointed the Benning and Green didn't address this situation (from what was starting to brew from last season?).

Remedy = Hire Miroslav Satan for a front office Canucks job?

Mogilny stopped caring about being a Canuck after the 95-96 season.

1st sentence: JT Miller and Bo Horvat think they are Shaq and Kobe. 2nd sentence: Elias Pettersson and Brock Boeser think they are Paris Hilton and Brittany Flickinger

No offence taken. We aren't real GM's just crazy fans on a message board. If you think you have a strong idea of what constitutes fair value, make your own proposal. :-p

I normally wouldn't be a fan of Babcock due to the way he verbally and emotionally abuses players (allegedly), but this could be a good thing in Petey and Brock's case. Lets see what these guys are made of. The three best players in our organizational history (twins and Bure), passed with flying colours with our two toughest coaches (Torts and Keenan) and so lets see what our current pansy superstars are truly made of.

I didn't realize Dobson was struggling. I read a report that said he was thriving and that he was playing alongside Chara on the top pairing?

Was banned from there in 2020 since I called out Tantalum on his mediocre analysis of the Canucks bleeding high danger chances. At the time, January 2020, the Canucks were winning almost every game which enraged Tantalum and MS for whatever reason (likely because a month before, both "men" predicted that the Canucks were going to play .300 hockey for the rest of the season since they had a tough December if I recall correctly). Anyways - In the month of January 2020 or whenever it was, Tantalum mentioned that the Canucks were winning because they were overly reliant on Markstrom and were bleeding high danger chances. I then told Tantalum to take a closer look at the numbers. Yes, Markstrom was getting peppered with high danger chances, and yes, we were being dominated possession wise, but only once we had taken the lead. In other words, I pointed out to tantalum that he was creating a false narrative in which, "we were a crappy team hanging onto the tails of Jacob Markstrom," when in reality, we were a team that simply did not know how to play with a lead. I mentioned to him that if we were such a bad team, we wouldn't be jumping out to leads almost every single game (which is what was happening), and that, our biggest problem was that we'd go into some weird "shell mode" of "playing not to lose" rather than "playing to win" once we had the lead. Tantalum then reported me to his buddy Mr Canucklehead, and I was booted.

Your arguments don't make sense because our strengths and weaknesses at current are quite different from what it was in 2019-2020 when you supposedly predicted all of this.

You are pretending not to take my posts seriously because you are ducking the legit hockey arguments that I've made towards you in this thread. Yes, my obsession with HF is weird and my trade proposals are awful, but none of that has anything to do with my hockey arguments towards you both on your status and in this thread.

I'm glad that you mentioned the Leafs by the way. A few years back on HF when I was there, I asked posters on there to give me an example of a team that had rebuilt "the correct way" in a relatively short amount of time. MS, Y2K, and their followers (Kanuck25), all pointed to the Leafs as a paragon of excellence. When I pointed out to them that the Leafs hadn't won a playoff round since 2004, and that "Shanaplan" already had some young decent pieces when he took over, it fell on deaf ears. Then, when they signed John Tavares at a premium price (before re-upping their RFA's) and I told them that the Tavares signing would lead to more problems than happiness, they scoffed. "Internet cap structure be damned." That's the problem with all of these cockroaches such as HF Canucks, JD Burke, and Thomas Drance. They keep pointing to the fact that we've been rebuilding for so long, but fail to acknowledge that ALL teams such as Florida, Carolina, Colorado, Tampa, etc., etc. (basically, any team that is on top right now) went through many years without a playoff appearance. Boston is the only team that I can think of that consistently qualified for the playoffs (although they always lost in the first round). Even for teams like Calgary and Edmonton who were rebuilding for so long, randomly made the 2nd round in 2015 and 2017 respectively, before having a few more years of growing pains. The Canucks might be on a similar path. Unfortunately, these cockroaches like Kanuck25, JD Burke, and Thomas Drance don't mention this fact. They try and paint this picture that the Canucks are the only ones going through these rebuilding pains due to their hatred of Benning. It's pathetic.

You and I both know what the answer is to this question as it pertains to him and his buddies at HF.

How was it "inevitable" when a lot of our strengths and weaknesses are completely different than what it was back then? -Demko still faces high danger chances, but not to the extent that Markstrom was when he was tending for us. -Special teams are not a strength of ours at current. -We tend to hold our own and be fairly middle of the road 5 on 5. -Heading into this season, our only real "bad contracts", on paper, should have been Myers (decent defenseman, but probably should be paid around 3-3.5 million) and Tanner Pearson. Poolman is good value for a third pairing dman. You guys claimed that OEL would be horrible value but he's actually been really good for us and is worth his 7 million+ cap hit. How was "inevitable" that Pettersson and Boeser would end up being our 'bad contracts' this season?

I would give credit where credit was due if they foresaw Petey and Boeser falling off a cliff, but no one from that site did. Not even the "great" Melvin or MS. The one thing "they" got right was that our PK would be awful but most of us were saying the same thing.

Him and his boys at HF are trying to tell us that "we told you so", but they really didn't. Refer to my post above this one.

Except "your boy" tucked his tail between his legs and ran away from my post on his status update..........so yes, I would agree with you. This interaction basically exemplifies those who critique management, and those that explain management's actions and point to the fact that there may have been other circumstances involved. Exhibit A: No one ever once said that the North Division was "tough." Once again, you are making $&!# up because that's what your leaders MS and Y2K at HF Canucks have instructed you to do. As far as this year goes, the Canucks would have been a middle of the road team had Pettersson and Boeser not completely fallen off a cliff. So - if you or your "clan" at HF accurately predicted that Petey and Boeser would completely tank this season, then kudos. From what I can tell though, "your people" predicted the following: 1) OEL would be a train-wreck. 2) The OEL-Myers pairing would get hemmed. 3) Dickinson would be an upgrade over Sutter, Beagle, and Gaudette as Dickinson had pretty good defensive metrics in a number of defensive categories from an analytics perspective (this was touted as one of the "few good moves" that Benning had made throughout his tenure) 4) The Canucks would struggle mightily 5 on 5. 5) Our team would be overly reliant on its Powerplay 6) Our PK would suck. So congrats - "your people" got #6 right, and #4 to a minor extent. Not one of you guys however mentioned anything about Pettersson or Boeser. "Your people" are standing there in pretention claiming that "we told you that this would happen," but the Canucks are failing due to completely different reasons. I have no idea what happened in the lorckerroom in 2020-2021, or what went on behind the scenes in the 2020 off-season, but something must have definitely happened. Other than letting Toffoli walk and being overly loyal to Travis Green, I can't see a single mistake that Benning made post 2020 bubble playoffs. Nate Schmidt for a 3rd should have been a steal. Hamonic, on paper, wasn't that much of a downgrade from Tanev.....only difference being that Hamonic came with much better term and money. Holtby (a 1A goalie) was required in order to help insulate Demko into his new role as a #1. Even this year, guys like Garland, Hamonic, and Demko shouldn't be that much of a downgrade from Toffoli, Tanev, and Markstrom.......except with the former three, we have much more favourable term and money. Demko faces a lot of high danger chances, but not to the extent that Markstrom was facing in 19-20. But hey - if you guys predicted that Pettersson, Boeser, and Dickinson would be complete non-entities this season, then more power to you.

Resorting to GIF's to enhance your "argument." True sign of a defeated man and a defeated liar and charlatan.

That's quite the prediction you [liars] made a few years back. You [liars] could possibly be the only people on the planet that predicted both Petey and Boeser falling off a cliff. With predictions like that, I'm sure that you "25-30 year old geniuses" at HF can give us all stock tips and what not.

Don't take hockey so seriously and simply go to the games to enjoy a night out with friends and family. Support the boys to the best of your ability and let Mother Nature take its course just as it did during the late 90's with the Canucks. If you are no longer enjoying hockey, find a different hobby and don't get stressed out about the Canucks. Come back when they start to upswing again. There's no shame in that.

I would be estatic provided that 1) We trade Horvat and he lands us an elite prospect (Braden Schneider?) 2) We trade Miller and he lands us an elite prospect (?) 3) We tank this year and land someone like Shane Wright or Conor Geekie 4) Benning and Green are both long gone before the draft and before July 1st. A UFA, on July 1st 2022, looks at our team and sees the following potential line-up in 2023-2024 Dickinson-[Wright/Geekie]-Boeser Podkolzin-Pettersson-Garland Hoglander-[MillerTrade]-#### Pearson-#####-Lockwood Hughes-[Schneider] OEL-Myers Rathbone-Poolman Demko Dipietro New coach (Julien/Budreau) New GM (Maybe Mike Gillis again?) New President: Hank and Dan? And all of a sudden, UFA's, as early as July 1st 2022, start looking at Vancouver as a breath of fresh air and a potentially solid long term opportunity.

Schneider is a big RHD that is defensively responsible in his own end, and is one of the few (if any) young RD’s available that are more valuable than a 1st round pick (based on merit), and yet probably quite haven’t reached “untouchable” status like Moritz Seider or Noah Dobson have. In my opinion, it is these prospects that the Canucks should be targeting with Horvat and Miller. Young guys, through merit, that are now valuable than a 1st round pick, but still haven’t quite reached untouchable status yet. I had assumed that Anton Lundell was in that category but it looks like he’s reached untouchable status now. As has Columbus’ Cole Sillinger. Maybe Kent Johnson is attainable?

Fair enough. My point being that both Horvat and Miller should be able to land you Atleast two elite prospects in total. So maybe Braden Schneider is one, and another guy out there is two (ie Kent Johnson from Columbus?........I’m guessing that Cole Sillinger is untouchable at this point for us). So - we land two very elite prospects for Horvat and Miller, tank the rest of this year, and then land someone like Wright or Geekie in the draft. All the while keeping everyone on our team outside of Horvat and Miller. Now all of a sudden, a 2022 UFA looks at our team and says, “these guys look promising long term, and maybe I can even help these guys short term while those young diamonds develop.”

Given the bad reputation that our ownership has for being meddling, do you think anyone qualified would be willing to be President at this point? Trevor Linden is very well respected around the league and we all know the falling out that he had. At this point, the Aqua’s might have no choice but to promote the twins and co-Presidents in a PR related move. Maybe the twins at the helm could goax Gillis to come back as GM? (provided that there is an understanding the ownership stays out of the decision making process). From a PR standpoint, the combination of the twins and Gillis might keep the fans’ spirits up since those men represent our most successful period in franchise history.

Yes they are dude and I will be buying NHL 22 fairly shortly! Muhahahahaha!