Lazurus

It sounds silly but Green HAS to bench Hughes except for power plays. His defence is so bad the team cannot score fast enough to make up for his miscue's Better to have 4 defence at -2 than Hughes - 4, because that usually means he was on the ice for one goal score for but 5 scored against. If Baumgarnter plays him too much because he is in charge of the defence then fire him.

Ya, now he has a whopping 3 points in 13 games. It goes to show just how bad this team's defence was last year, that he was that important and he is marginal in Detroit In 2 years time that will be year 9 for JB and quite honestly, until this team can start icing legitimate NHL defenceman, which JB has neglected to address in his first 7 years at the helm, I don't see this team being any more of a contender than what we see seeing right now Signing multiple aging FA forwards was ignoring Tanev and Edler aging out. Stecher was a bandaid. Myers was his only defence signing. Markstrom covered up a lot of mistakes but fans ignored or didn't understand what they were seeing, distracted by Hughes or Pettersson talk. Today's game will be very challenging for them, in a funk, can't get together and work it out, phone calls just aren't the same. Depression for some players can be a ral thing, especially Miller. Total isolated from his family, always.I posted before he might not want to be here, it isn't like he had any control of the trade and he lost millions to taxes and family contact. After he had signed a home town discount. Covid can be killing the mental health of the team, some players much more than others BTW lots of talk about not being able to trade. That is a very narrow and simple minded approach the media is trying feed the lemmings. True there would be a time lag but if they are trading it is likely a player not contributing so missing him for 2 weeks doesn't hurt that much. AS AN EXAMPLE ONLY - Virtanen sits for a week, how much did that hurt? What is another week then? They lose today again, they are so fragile. But I do see 3 fights maybe 4.

Ferland is collecting his full salary from the Canucks because Benning signed a contract the insurance doctors would not clear due to concussion symptoms. The LTIR only means his salary is not counted in the cap, but it costs hard cash to replace him because to that blunder.

When Linden was hired, he got 100% control. I think the decision to start getting back involved might have been around the time their kids exiting school and the Ferland contract. The Ferland could not be insured because insurance company doctors would not clear Ferland but Benning either missed that or didn't care or was simply too incompetent to understand the ramifications and didn't ask but it put the Canucks/Aquillini's 100% financially responsible for Ferland current and future health. I know posters keep trying to put some of the blame on the owners You have to remember the hyper intense heat the media helped propagate during that time. It was embarrassing and some media persona's must still not be very proud of that time. The result was this team, a team not built to win but to put bums in seats. Over the years Aquillini involvement has been speculated, but in the form of "I can't believe they let that happen" which points towards a hands off position. Fans got what they wanted.

Lombardi won cups with, Murray the first, Sutter was the coach for the second Nothing like just throwing any old numbers out there to troll eh? History lesson; Lamerello - Hired 1986 - Conference Finals - 1987, miss - 1988, then 1989 thru 1994-95 playoffs every year up to being Cup Champs. Coaches were replaced on a perennial playoff team 86 to 95 - 7 out 8 years deep playoff runs. Took Lamorello one season to make a playoff team. Hey! Understand this has nothing to do with Green as a coach, Chatfield is never going to suddenly become Potvin, Juolevi is not suddenly the second coming of Ohlund Green is not holding players back Look this problem has been around for years, Markstrom covered it up most Benning concentrated on signing old FA FORWARDS and ignored the defence with the exception of Myers. He relied on an aging under rated Tanev and Edler. You may have liked Stecher but he is marginal in Detroit, it just shows how bad this defence had become. For the rest. When the Aqulini's stepped back and left the team to the "hockey" people, as the fans and media at the time were demanding, They fired Gillis and hired Linden and let him go at it, they just signed checks until their kids got out of school.

A little Aqulini hockey history? East side family played hockey in Vancouver, cheered for the Canucks. Was in business handling 100's of employees and millions of dollars much longer than Benning Much higher education than Benning's grade 12 (that high?) Closer contacts than the average fan. Can't get too personal. Linden quit, not fired, no announcement, mutual departure, which means Linden quit. Dean Lombardi? You mean Murray don't you? Wasn't Sutter after for the next cup? Hey, coaches are hired to be firedbut he can only coach what he has The team has 3 AHL defencmen, sometimes 4, there is no depth. No practice time, when this happened to Torts, everyone blamed him too but practice is needed. What a bad example, he was GM for almost 30 years with NJD, coaches could have died of old age in that amount of time. There is no doubt he was in it to win, yes he went through coaches like beer. But his team was good and winning not like here.

The promote to President is certainly opposite the current language used but in my context it is a positive regardless of possible sarcasm. I apologize for assuming you championed Benning and the management group, I could not find any real complaint you had about them and even more supporting the current team than anything else. I don't think Green should be fired, just to say it. And letting Maholtra was a mistake Canuck PP is suffering the same as every other aspect of their game. There is no President so moving Benning into a non existent position with no set responsibilities is not firing him, just a sideways move that would amount to about the same thing without a lot of drama or shame attached. I do see tons of panic and altered states on the forum, like a forest fire out of control but to this has been inevitable since Chris Gear was hired as Assistant GM or a couple of months earlier. To me all the background comments, such as from Tryamkin's agent about nothing happening until finances were sorted out in December followed up by Gear and then the multiple reports of lack of negotiations from all the upcoming expiring player contracts and the Brackett stuff, well with Maholtra his contract was expiring and the Canucks granted him permission before it did and as most will do, said he didn't want to go but blah, blah, blah. The IT guys being let go in the front office. To me this is the team, with the exceptions of Holtby and Schmidt, that I figured would be here, with age the majority of the team would slow down and the pressure on the young players might crush them, just like what happened in Edmonton. I still don't think Miller really wants to be here or is happy. He played great last year. In Tampa he signed a home town discount, was then moved to a place he didn't have any say in, as far away from his family as possible, the added taxes and expenses cost him a million dollars and then comes covid, a novelty for the play ins and playoffs. But now a further reduction of his salary and more expenses and longer period of time away from his family and isolation. Players are people too and can be depressed, what has Miller got to thrill him? He can't even go out for a beer. It is not the same for all on the team, they come home to family, Miller maybe borrows one. The butterfly and windshield, I was thinking the butterfly effect, butterfly hits windshield, causes bad vision, car hits ? All that said I apologize to you for my assumptions of your position with regards to the team. My post was just a comment.

The OJ thing, he is listed way to light, like he is 20 lbs under weight. You know my thoughts on him, they have never changed, a blown pick but this D is so bad he wasn't outstanding or I mean obviously really bad. Chatfiled is much faster though

What does the President do now? Hint, there isn't one and he does nothing. So a promotion moves him out of the GM position and into the ? President Benning and Vice president Weisbrod with exactly the same responsibilities as today's President and Vice President They don't have a president or vice pres and there is nothing in that job description, promoting them to do nothing.

There can be no favorites, well there can be but if they are on the trade block there has to be a fortune coming back The Canucks fans will fill the arena even if the team loses 50 games a year, they just did that for years. If a GM has the cojones some very onesided trading combined with the usual ownership open vault, monitored this time. And with a solid vision a young core group could be assembled with some senior prospects and top level FA's I wonder if any team has ever traded away all one year's draft picks for a single player? I know one thing it would be unlikely I lasted because I would use the offer sheet to my advantage. There is now way I would have traded for Miller not when defence was the team's big need. At forward there was Horvat, Boeser, Petterson already at defence there was Hughes. I would have insisted that one of their young defence be included and going back would be Juolevi with a later pick. Now I would use the threat of an offer sheet to leverage trades Just this last season if offer sheets were used and the Miller trade a little less expensive, Sergachev would be in a Vancouver uni maybe at the cost of the picks but if they know you are going to do it anyway they will be more open to taking help now or sooner rather than later (waiting for development) because their window is now. I would sell the farm to get Dahlin.

The team has been operating for quite awhile without a President so give the job to Benning complete with existing responsibilities President is a title only Vice President Wiesbrod too. No Firing Needed How about that?

When management stops re-signing anyone then it is more probable that there is fire where there is smoke. I know you love your team and nothing they do is really wrong and the idea of firing anyone let alone the person you have championed for so long for is distasteful or outright repugnant. So as a solution let's not fire Benning, indeed let's do the opposite, let's promote him to President of Operations. Now there are no operations mentioned but he can then go scouting and no one is fired. And there is always fault to be found, even a butterfly can smash your windshield making a mess

Look around, nothing happening. If Benning could have saved his job he would have done something before now. Forget firing the coach, this team as constructed was never for this kind of intense competition, it was to fill the arena with competitive games, to be entertaining with just enough star power, real or exaggerated, to distract from the major flaws on the team. Buying out Tryamkin's contract and bringing him over might not salvage the team now, not that he is Moses or anything, just a solid top four defenceman that might, just might be good enough to make up for Hughes defensive ineptitude. If ownership takes a hand, then that tells fans change is coming and there is light at the end of this well. It might even give a spark to the players knowing that things can change. 3 more losses pretty much does it, even a record of 5 and 5 finishes the season, Tryamkin's appearance if that close might stop enough goals to make difference. Really there is not much house cleaning left, Benning and Wiesbrod and then let Gear run the day to day while taking time to select the right GM and let Green carry a little more decision weight, like AV used to until he took advantage of his power and traded for Kassian. Don't even have to fire Benning, just promote him to President and shuffle him off to oneside

Wow, the number of poster that have never ran a team where winning games was the first thought is abundantly clear here Maybe simple math will help, now pay attention, this is real simply and has no names attached. What is better? Scoring 16 goals in 4 games or stopping 28 goals in four games? The team scores 36 goals but allows 48 against the team scores 20 goals but allows only 20 against Which team has the best chance of winning every night? Which team is more exciting to watch? One team will attract fans eager to win The other a group out for an nights entertainment and a close game. Winning is nice but not the end all be all There once a player that was scoring 150 to 160 points a year, his team never won anything then came a coach that taught him to be a 200' player, his scoring went down to the 110's and 120's but suddenly his team was winning and eventually won a cup or two and created a foundation that played in the playoffs for 25 year. That was Yzerman and Demers, followed by Bowman who put Federov on defence to teach him that part of the game. Now Hughes, no matter how much you think he is cute little cuddly bear is just that, little and he isn't handling premier forwards very well, in regular times he may have got a break every now and then but this division if fighting for bragging rights in Canada so every game is competitive. Chatfield made the deadlines being minus 4, Hughes was minus 2 with and assit meaning he was one the ice for 3 Toronto goals, Chatfield 4 TO goals Team that win know stopping goals is just as important, that is why some goalies make big bucks but it is the same for skaters, what the sense of having a guy score 10 goals if 20 are scored against him?

Benning already fired two coaches, Torts and Willy. What do you do just keep firing coaches? At some point it becomes evident that a god couldn't win with a group that just isn't good enough. That is why there are different levels of hockey, this is a great AHL team but not so great NHL, it is a matter of skill levels.

There is always a price to pay to win. The only other option is to try, try, try and try again with middle of the road draft picks, not good enough to push the team over but good enough to sell hope. If Gillis had won a cup would that have made a difference? Burke and Nonis managed to be competitive and "winsome kind of championship" Burke was referring to Division, Conference or Stanley so his goal was really to be competitive. Gillis stated his goal was to win the cup, period. He also thought the Sedins couldn't do it. And the team he inherited was passing by their window. Most of the repeat teams have their stars in their early 20's, the one and done in their late 20's and early 30's. Gillis got almost all the team around 28 yrs old and that was good for a 4 year window, 2008 to 2012. Then if he followed the Tampa model the team tanks for two drafts and comes back with a great mix of to level youth and aged experience, a three year turnaround.

All those player you mention that Tampa has, if you look at the standings you will see they tanked to get them. The best comparison id Detroit because of the average draft number, both team were at the top but had horrible drafts because they were always 25 or deeper. That goes every round after too. As an example the #1 pick team picks 32 next, Gillis was picking #30 and #60 Another circumstance was the team was solid, who would a draft pick bump out? Just about every Canuck of those teams continued to play for another 5+ years No my friend this drafting story has been slanted to give Benning another excuse to trade away picks, prospects and not trade for any. Just like the "clause" contracts were causing problems and then he went and signed more than any other GM What we see here now that there is this amped up competition are teams built to be competitive and teams built to win

The team can be fixed. But not with the existing management group It will be painful Young players will have to be moved Time will be needed to have some contracts go away. But with all the information available to the general public and some information of the old boys club and turn around can be accomplished within 4 years counting this one. BUT THERE HAS TO BE A PLAN. Not matter how good Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser or Hughes are they are not enough. I feel for them having to answer questions for thing they have no responsibility for, the same for Green The Aqulini's were burned in effgy starting in 2012 and all of 2013. They stepped back and let this gong show continue because they decided to not be involved to stop the threats to their family. The kids are grown now. Benning is a Faceman, a lame duck GM. I eagerly await the re=hiring of Gillis, at least henever lied to the fans year after year and was in hindsight the best GM this team has ever had even slightly better than Quinn,maybe, it is very close

Part of spending to the cap was a consequence of stepping back and letting the Linden/Benning group run the team unfettered and without oversight. If you remember the media pressure of years ago hiring Linden and stepping back was what the media build up was all about, the media getting even for losing their CI.

The last 8 games that Hughes he flies around the ice, he skate really fast into offensive zone and gets shot, he dazzling when he get PP points, but song of a gun, too bad the other team score 5 goals when he dashing around and lose 5 to one.

Hardly looking for a scapegoat, EVERYONE KNOWS THAT IS VIRTANEN! No I just did the hockey thing a look to see who was on the ice when the other team scored. After 20 times seeing #43 and not finishing yet, it started to become apparent that like all youse ignoring standard hockey logic the team was hell bent to not mention it and if anything deflect notice to Virtanen. Once I noticed this I started listening to all those apologies the players have to give after these losses and it was becoming clear they kept saying they have to get better defensively. Once looking a +/-'s of the team, Hughes was the worst on the team, Hughes also was the worst in the league. A really bad thing I noticed after the next few games was the more he scored the worser his +/- became. Now another distraction, Eriksson. I mean c'mon man, if it was anybody else on the ice for 25 of the 55 goals against on a team that is losing worth notice instead of praise? Or are you content to be led around and being told who to blame? WHY ISN'T HUGHES FED TO THE MEDIA TO APOLOGIZE? Why isn't the media asking the players "what do you mean play better, who play better?" This issue did not start this year, this has been ongoing and was magnified by Vegas.

Why not play Dipietro instead of Holtby? If the team can stop 31 goals against at a cost of 22 goals for, that would put the team at 35 goals for and 34 goals against that would be good right? Two goalies, one lets in two more per game than the other, which plays? How often are the fans told that work in the AHL is important to figure out the game. So Hughes can get goals but what is the worth if he is on the ice for 3 goals against every game? Yaaa he got 65 points, but the other teams got 195 points while he was playing. At his current pace his minus number will surpass his points in 2 games. How a hockey fan can miss how team win can be baffling at times. Score more and stop the other team from scoring. Hughes 1 - Other team 3 Get it?

So we come full circle to blaming the Aquilini's somehow. Sure they had a lot of input with THEIR team. Gillis was an outside the box hiring and he turned out to be quite innovative. The owners spent money they didn't need to spend to help make the team better, sleep studies, now used league wide, statics before it was trendy and other fruitful ideas. Owning their own farm team. None of this was cheap and there was hardly anything mentioned in the media that didn't end up becoming a reality. After the isolation of McCaw, the media was constantly complaining about absentee ownership so the locally owned Aquilini's were welcomed with bells on. It didn't hurt that they wanted the team so badly they ended up in court to get them, they fought to get the team. Could there be more motivated owners? Hands on owners were the people who owned championship teams and dynasties, absentee owners such as Toronto's Teacher's union were quite happy to be just good enough to sell out. McCaw ran the team like a business rarely even attending games and then did look into moving the team to Seattle because it wasn't making enough money here in part due to the low Canadian dollar. The Aquilini's opened the vault for Gillis and Gillis structure of team management, Gillis was responsible everything he hired the best and brightest new thinkers and ideas like a capologist, except the on ice product, that with consultation of AV who made the decisions (this gave AV the power of careers, something stiil around then) on who played. Only once did this fail, the Kassian trade occurred without Gillis' immediate approval, this strained the relationship between AV and Gillis as to who held how much control. The Aquilini's sided with the genius who had built a team that had done nothing but win everything except game 7. At the end AV was let go and looking to the future, the best NHL coach for training young players was hired, Tortorella. But AV was a media darling, often leaking information and as result the media took to harassing the owners and Gillis with every negative fact they cold find. Indeed if some of this media looked back into their stories they would be ashamed, nobody today can remember the intensity of the media induced fan rage, so much so the owners had to hire security for family members. A result of this was firing Gillis and hiring hometown darling and hero Linden, even though Linden had 0 experience running a team and giving him 100% running of the team and becoming a rubber stamp and Lindena PR move. IMO the original idea was to have Quinn as the "mentor" role like Scotty Bowman. The owners sat back and allowed the Linden/Benning combo to fire several internal and external personnel at great cost them 10's of millions for people to not work for them, they did not complain. For 4 years the TL/JB spent money like water and did little to build the franchise value. The owners watched as team values slipped from 5th in the league, higher that Chicago down to 9th, at one point under Gillis the Canucks were worth more than Montreal, still they did not interfere. Then came the Linden, Benning internal feud and power struggle which forced the owners to discuss the break down but ended with Linden quitting. Still the owners stayed backed off and just let the remaining run the team without interference. They gave Benning another contract because of promises of improvement. In 2019 the kids graduate 2019 the owners start getting involved again, the books are a mess, overspending has approached or surpassed revenue income. Taking back may have started as early as July 2019, no new FA's and Tryamkin talks keep stalling. No new contracts except that innovative deal Boeser got which would have been rev neutral if not for covid but is now a poison pill, other than that not even internals deals unless just housekeeping. They still give Benning 100% control of hockey ops but not finances, he trades the future for Miller. The fiances are somewhat supported by Tryamkin's agent's December's comments about having to wait until the finances are figured out and later Benning's Tofolli resigning comments and having to wait. Tanev stated no real conversations, Brackett ditto, Markstrom, Stecher all make it pretty clear in hindsight that the restrictions were very tight. One thing many fans seem to miss is that the Aquinli's are very well educated in hockey, they know good from bad and obviously they know how to make money. Benning has his day now, Playoffs or bust. Owners hire Chris Gear as Assistant GM in charge of finances and contracts January 2020 Benning makes his last big push, he trades away more of the future for Toffoli and places the team deeper into cap hell. There is a chance that if the team had failed to make the playoff there would be a change. Hence no contracts signed, the new guy decides. Covid happens and suspends decisions until the next season. The owners clamp down on spending, cap limit but no more. But fans here are so spoiled with an open check book and spending like ti is a fantasy game they want to blame the owners for not spending even more. They don't understand that even if they bought out Eriksson the team is still capped out. Today we are here, Benning's team it took him almost 7 years and 750 million dollars and is not doing well. There are no fans or money to lose by them not showing up. Hands on owners; Jeremy Jacobs Jerry Jones Robert Kraft Bartolo (deceased) Davis family before Al's death, after hands off. Pegula - Bills and Sabres Wirtz Molson Tanenbaum Aquilini before - 5 divisional champs, conference champs, two Presidents League Trophies, hands on under Gillis - 261wins - 197 losses - 0.570 after hands off - 275 losses - 218 wins - Benning - 0.442 It definitely shows hands on owners get the most out of their teams. At any-rate the fans of this hockey team should be proud to have the Aquilini's as owners After all the media madness dumped on them, their commitment to this team can hardly be questioned The thing is I trust them, they ARE HOCKEY people already.

Funny thing about the lack of response to this title. A few years ago there were dozens of pages stating TO' Shanaplan would not work and defending Benning's whatever plan, something Jason Botchford came to call the "The No Plan, Plan" because what was happening made no sense or results. Just spending 100's of millions. Back then is was clear that support for Benning vs Shanaplan was clearly one sided on this forum, maybe as much as 22 to 1 going by the number of pages, although there did seem to be 10 or so posters defending Benning like pure fanatics with no other thought than to everything else is wrong but Jim. Could have been just a hired mob because several came on line at the same time, like multiple avatars per user. At any rate the time is now, the two plans will come head to head again, every dog has it's day and even a broken clock is right twice a day. It will be the cumulative results that will tell the tale. But a underlying issue might be raising it's head with the No Plan, Plan, the players are getting discouraged having to apologize to the media day after day and know that one or two wins will not stop the doubts they carry themselves or fans.

I don't get this cap rule. At the beginning of the season all teams HAVE to be under the cap to even start play, in theory. And they are supposed to stay under or at the cap maximum or minimum all season long until playoffs. Now last year's playin round were considered regular season games but Vancouver was allowed to be 13 million over the cap for those games. Now this year, with Eriksson being added to the roster the team is 4 million over the cap, in the past that would require waivers. This has happened to other teams already. So what am I missing here, this isn't LTIR stuff, are they going to waive somebody? They have until the first whistle I think.