ToTellTheTruth
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At some point both will have to happen, there is just not enough time to change enough wrong with this team. The team cannot continue to be the retirement home for the league is fans ever want to see a cup final again. I would like to see more than one push every 12 to 16 years, but it seems that is the way Canadian teams are being built one shot every generation, just so all the teams get a chance. Both will be traded hopefully at some time Pettersson will get a huge amount in return What if, ya if, a Pettersson trade returned a Stutzle and a Fox and replacement Horvat? Even if that return took 2 years? Two good for the next possibly 12+ years versus one good for another 8 years with 4 of those being without any chance of winning. Players are just part of a team, not the team itself just parts
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His agent was smart, he looked around to see what team could give him top 3 ice time so the next contract could be much more lucrative. There was no team that had open spots in the top line. Kuzmenko already has solidified his position as a top six player and PP player in the league now and almost a point per game player. He also was glowing when talking about his idol Ovechkin and Washington will have cap space, which they didn't have last year, to sign him to a pretty decent contract. They could sign him and trade for Miller and have enough cap space net year, do a mini reset for Ovechikin. There you go, use Kuzmenko as the add in to trade Miller It should not be hard for fans to think that the Canucks are just a stepping stone, t has happened here recently, Schenn was out of the league and ended up with a resurgence thanks to the Canucks, somewhat with Benn as well, Motte, Miller. He is a FA next year, his agent knows if there is no talks he is probably traded at or before the TDL, this management just can't go the same way as Elmer and let him go for nothing. The Canucks have a chance to get back a long lasting return for really nothing and help change the belief that these new guys are nothing but con men carrying on the status quo. That the new management really think the fans are idiots, stupid, immature, dumb, mere lemmings and mushrooms to be kept in the dark and covered with shat. Oh wait they are already treating fans like mushrooms :D
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And Vancouver's room is filled with them all singing kumbya? The defence is constantly being called out. Be real if that was a reason then the other player would be traded, oh ya, he was traded too. This also coincided with the meddling owner Melnyk telling the world they were blowing it up and laying out his plan that included the staggered cap structure and time line, which just happens to be pretty accurate. 3+ years ago. What difference would it be alright if there was a player disagreement and Hughes gets traded, that makes it alright? If so, what difference if he is traded to make the TEAM better than they are with him on it? What if they traded him and got two stars back, say a McVoy and Sergachev? Or a Fox and another Horvat? The team is losing now with him being the GOAT so if the return was like; Josh Norris Chris Tierney Rudolfs Balcers Dylan DeMelo 2019 2nd round pick 2019 or 2020 conditional 1st round pick - Tim Stützle 2021 conditional 1st or 2nd round pick - Zack Ostapchuk - Jamieson Rees 2022 conditional 1st round pick does that make a difference? It certainly did with Ottawa.
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[PGT] Winnipeg Jets at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 17, 2022
ToTellTheTruth replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
No I meant Rutherford when he was on a few weeks ago. Garrett started a conversation about the good old days to waste time, Rutherford politely but quickly answered then returned to the diverted question by cutting Garrett off. That impressed me about Rutherford that he didn't take the out. Ya Jethro Allvin only stirred up more fan doubt about this management group's plan or lack of a plan. Really scary was the "time to build one brick at a time" stuff. Like there are 4 GM's and they can only do one thing at a time? Bring's back the "we ran out of time" because they only did one thing at a time. I still hope, ya I have hope, that there will be a stunning amount of trade action very soon. -
Karlsson was traded at his peak. A Norris trophy winner because he was on a team losing worse than this with a less incumbered cap. The return accelerated Ottawa's TOTAL blow it up rebuild to the point the are ahead of the Canucks in every area. Glad he is doing well that should increase the return on this asset but not as much as some hope, he is very one dimensional, offence not so much defence.
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One last thing is these recent losses are what fans are asking for, they are early Xmas gifts, the tank. This is what a tank might look like, close and almost there but a loss. Now if management actually stated this was part of a plan fans would not be throwing jerseys It would alleviate much of the fan lack of trust and the lack of faith in the front office. It would also ease the pressure on the players and fan attacks on individual players. It would not take 8 years if they were in earnest, but they can make it take 8 years by doing it ONE BRICK AT A TIME. If they lose think of it as part of the secret plan. I know not much about the game but then the team has made most things not about a game either. At least not one's they are no shows. Very easy for this to be a blow out. This is unintentional tanking, support it
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Excuses lining up for the Nux; Empty seats due to weather. A possible loss due to missing Pettersson's illness. More to come yet I am sure. Car accidents? This should be a closer game. Both team's have been going into OT for wins or points. The big difference might be that St Louis has been a winning team in the past so might be a little more resilient, they have also been getting pretty decent goaltending again. ST Louis wins
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[PGT] Winnipeg Jets at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 17, 2022
ToTellTheTruth replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
Shorty, Garrett, was not allowing Scott to pursue questions, he was giving excuses for Allvin and deflecting some of the tougher questions until Oake asked if he was the Assistant GM or applying for the job. Really how did being at home become too stressful for the players, too many distractions? Garrett's answer to a question put to Allvin. "Shorty" has been put to so many people, Larchied, Shorthouse, Garrett. Seems this team needs a "shorty" in the booth. He should not be on any of these interviews at all, he plays the part of the relief valve diverting tough questions. Even Rutherford almost ignored him when Garrett tried to change the direction, he politely answered Garret, cut him off and surprisingly answered Oake's question. -
I could care less if they missed Bedard, there are 5 to 8 others at least equal or ahead of Wright from last year already. Bedard would be all the wishes in one package though. Just look at our #9 pick from last year, he is ahead but with Arizona, we got OEL The local boy and marketing dream. But those guys rarely ever make to their home town team or team of their choice before they are used up. Tkachuk, Dubois and Pettersson might though. Pettersson is FA in 2 seasons same with Dubois but they can force a trade if they really want to. They really don't have to do much do they to get better odds for a top 2 pick, they could even earn a top five all on their own, which is almost worth 14 years or more of a decent to really good player and a roster spot solidified, one less over the years to try to find through trial and error.
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They were also already a good team before last year, a good winning team, not a loser that had neve won anything
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Ottawa is 3 and bit into the rebuild they have millions in cap space, are ahead of the Canucks already with 7 injuries to key players and in a harder division/conference, they also have 11 core players under 24 and 5 picks so far in the first two rounds this year and next. He started the rebuild only 3+ years ago, he laid out the plan, cap spending and expectations, there were no hands off players. He knew that his team wold be stuck in a perpetual retooling with overpaid players getting older and less impactful. It was obvious that Toronto was going to become a powerhouse while his team kept the same players. That lesson is all over the NHL, failed retools, upgrades and hanging on to fan favourites many more of those failures than the successful ones and like I posted with a planned tank and plan looking forward those are mostly successful. Vancouver wants to do this to fans or at least some feel like it already;
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As much as they are fan favourite and lodestones for attention their departure will not change the team's success much. With them the team is only marginally better because the team was never planned to be better, it takes a longer view than "we don't know what will happen tomorrow". Vancouver contrary to Allvin and Benning is not a young team and using Rutherford's guidelines not enough in the same age bracket. Any GM can add enough young age roster players to make that argument of being a young team but as NJD, Buff, Otta, Colo, Mon, all show there is young but there is also good And rebuilds from scratch don't take as long as this franchise has been suffering already, often two rebuilds can be made in that same time frame and have been. hockeyreference shows the needed information but some still had to be added and subtracted yourself. The wins and losses are easy though Take the number of season and add the games played then subtract the number of wins the rest are losses. The only set back is OT wins are counted as wins and really shouldn't be, but for simplicity that works easiest.
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If Bo goes then get rid of Rutherford!
ToTellTheTruth replied to Steve The Poolman's topic in Canucks Talk
I wish some of the really old posts were around, I always posted he relied on his team mates to score and that he wasn't that much better or different than Dane Fox for his release and need for others to help him score. But he had a much "cleaner" reputation than Fox. At 23rd that was where he was ranked so not much of chance taken and he did do much better than a lot of others taken before him at first. He has had at least three or more injuries to his wrist or hand, a couple requiring surgery so that could be a long term concern. So much talk about how hard it is to make a trade, only if the teams want to win every trade made. But team that have intentionally tanked are historically successful in the end. Pittsburgh got Lemiuex, Tampa twice the first got Richards and Leclavier and the second time Stamkos, Hedman and Vasilevskiy, Chicago got Kane and Toews, although they did an unintentional one a few years earlier Seabrooke and Keith, Toronto got Mathews, Washington - Ovechkin, Pittsburgh again Crosby and Malkin, those are just recent, Buffalo re-did another tank 2 years ago, Ottawa 3 years ago, New Jersey 3 years ago, NYR tank but kind of a retool too. When the intentional tank fails they know within 3 or 4 years, when building like the Canucks it is 6 to 9 years or until the young players aren't anymore and moving on. Teams that have never tanked, Vancouver, Nashville, Minnesota, San Jose, Dallas maybe, Columbus (maybe this year), Philadelphia, St louis ... the league has many that didn't intentionally tank but none have more than a single appearance or cup. Most of the others have won a cup or been in the finals for more than one. All the recent cup winners except StLouis did intentional planned tanks. Some teams can't be used as examples, accidental tanks don't seem to work out, they need to be part of a wider long range plan moving forward. It doesn't matter how many 1rst overalls a team gets if they can't do enough to work around the team. They just start using them for ticket sales, a reason to continue to encourage fan hope. Like here, first it is Sven Baerstchi, then Boeser, then Horvat again, then even Tryamkin, then Markstrom, then Juloevi, then Pettersson, then Hughes , then Pods lots of nice new players to watch but forget the standings. -
Predict The Score Contest: STL @ VAN December 19 2022
ToTellTheTruth replied to goalie13's topic in Canucks Talk
7-3 StLouis Thomas -
While usually the truth this group of coach killers has proven that sometimes the 21 players need to be fired, the scarcity is getting enough picks, prospects and YOUNG, under 22 yrs old, players back, not coaches. Anyone could coach this team with the same results.
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[PGT] Winnipeg Jets at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 17, 2022
ToTellTheTruth replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
Just like Benning didn't do either, under him they got older and the young players added were like now, not very effective, future journeymen at this point. But Tage Thompson will be paraded around as a "don't give up hope" for the farm system. As far as playoff revenue, if that was all that was wanted then the team would have had an internal cap saving more than 10 million a year. No playoff revenue is not even worthy of discussion unless they are good enough to actually win rounds with fans in the stands not when they could have saved more by cutting the cap. Which they didn't do. -
The article is like 9 years ago. Good god man, that is a canned statement any owner or any team official would say, except if they are ready to tear it down. Sort of like what Rutherford said, they aren't good enough. True that was an obvious statement but it was said while sitting next to Aquillini and he didn't blink an eye. If anything he supported that with "anything they want" Even Melnyk was saying the same thing right up to when he tore it down. It is such an obvious statement it is almost impossible to find an owner that would say anything different. The closest I can remember with regards to winning was in reference to the team winning a cup before his father died. The stats are about losing percentages, that is points percentages including loser points so the real stats are worse. An OTL is a loss. The last 8 years and to date, the Canucks have the worst win/loss record of any team in the league. Their win loss record shows they never made the .500 mark 565 games - 239 wins and 326 losses, not close a .423 win percentage Even worse is the number of games won in OT included as wins. And the last 8 years to be repeated following what Allvin is saying now, it will take time, one piece at a time, younger without winning (ais an excuse), see Benning extracts and change the name to Allvin. Canned statements. At least when Montreal, Arizona, Buffalo or Ottawa say that it really is true. Canucks have a grand total of 6 players 24 and under. Some aren't even regulars like Delia, Pederson, Studnicka and Aman, hardly instrumental in the team's success, oh and Stillman One thing did come up was that he didn't refute the possibility Hughes on the trade block comment though. Very hard to get a handle on just what the plan might be. Another jersey on the ice too, were the fans chanting "bull shat" during the game, I noticed the play by play guys started talking non stop and got much louder or crowd noise got much quieter.
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Under Aquillini this team was the best in the league for two years in a row, never happened before for the Canucks, played for a cup, became one of the iconic teams in the league, were one of the most progressive for player health, made the playoffs several years in a row, drafted two winner the only two top ten picks they had, traded away other picks to improve the winning cup contending team. One of his biggest failings was listening to the fans and firing Gillis and the fan revolt caused him to hire player first and friendly Linden. Allvin says the fans will need to be patient, it will take time to build this team one player per year. Cemented into mediocrity. I sure hope Aquillini doesn't wait another 7 years to demand his employees build a good team. It seems to be the NHL formula for teams, 7 to 12 years out of the playoffs except for some markets. The NHL hated Melynk because he was a maverick and showed what a determined owner that takes a hand can do and what is possible, Ottawa has rebuilt in 3 and bit years. Here is a perfect example of differences between fan bases. There is no doubt that Montreal fans are as dedicated to their team as Canuck fans, if not even more. Montreal got embarrassed in their game and the overall reaction was, "Oh well they are young and rebuilding" They will learn. In Vancouver because there is no massage of rebuilding fans are on edge and the reactions are quite different, polar opposites actually. Montreal loses and the reaction they will learn Vancouver loses and the reaction is are the good enough to learn or will they ever learn or why haven't they learned yet?
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[PGT] Winnipeg Jets at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 17, 2022
ToTellTheTruth replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
And that is what tanking could look like. Embrace it they got 2 points closer to a better pick. Winnipeg played really bad, they made all kinds of mistakes and took half the game off. They didn't even bother hitting. They rested up after the first period. Canucks just played like a team of players resigned to being traded or wanting to be traded. Horrible game from both teams Fans should start to support the team when this kind of game happens, it is what they want after all. And I am not being sarcastic, really they did what most fans want. -
Petey's QO is 10.25 million. He wants to play on a winner and in the playoffs. IMO I still think he signs no more than a minimum term contract for max money taking him to UFA status. His agent is not going to put himself into a corner by publicly stating his client does not want to stay unless it is the end. Neither would a player unless it is the straw needed to break the camel's back. In all player and agent discussions has there ever been a negative response except very few times. They all want to be there and once traded they are all glad to be where they were traded to.
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Actually he was under Arthur's thumb, they were not a rich team so he had to keep to the budget. Arthur was there daily and involved. Aquillini is rarely there and there is no budget per se. There can be no more interference than locking the vault and prevent spending. There was no cap and Quinn was operating in US dollars in a Canadian market. Which made his success even more remarkable. A marked difference was at first the team was first, later it became the players, he traded whoever he had to before they got stale. In the new NHL it seems the formula is to give each market a couple of star level players and sell them instead of the team. Try to sell one nights entertainment instead of a season. Maybe more interference is needed, like Melnyk did. Blow it up and now they are ahead of the Canucks in every category. Even Buffalo re-tooled and is ahead of the Canucks in every category. Arizona is only 4 points behind with a game in hand and 20 mil in cap space with 30 picks coming up. Canucks are the worst team in wins and losses over the last 7 years in the entire league. Time for a change in tactics and players. Try something new a true rebuild, not done in 50+ years and no cups in 50+ year either
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I can certainly tell you who is not. Who is closer than the 24th placed Canucks that may have room? Hmmm, that a real hard one let's see, Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago after next year, Tampa, Toronto, Boston, Calgary, LA, Anaheim, Dallas ..... Who says they need 9 million right now? If the cap goes up 4 million then it is only 5 mil.