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ToTellTheTruth

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Everything posted by ToTellTheTruth

  1. But he only signed a 3 year contract when offered much more. Sounds more like he knows what he wants. He is not married to the team. Friendships only go so far. Why is it wrong for a 24 or 25 year old player to want to play in the playoffs or on a winning team? He was drafted in 2017, the team has had that long to become a winner but they haven't, they are barely better, 6 to 8 points if that. So if his experience tells him there has been that small an improvement over that long is it just hope that he wants to stay? He can get his money and be on a winning team, maybe even have a chance at few cups over the next 5/6 years, but not here. So eliminate money, he will get that anywhere, friendships aren't marriages so he isn't locked into staying for emotional reasons, he wasn't bought so he isn't a slave, so all he wants is winning. That isn't happening here unless there are monumental changes, alot more than just Horvat moving on. Just can't be done if not started now
  2. Might not take 5 drafts. There is no ownership of players after their entry level contracts. Not just getting the players but also the time to get to the league That is why some teams ready to win and contend for a cup will trade away many of their first round picks. 5 drafts or 5 first round picks? Some years like this one 5 picks in the first round could be an entire rebuild. Even into the early 2nd round picks. 5 first over two or three years even could influence Petey into signing a little longer, light at the end of the tunnel. Last year Calgary coach Sutter said win the first round and then waste 8 days playing Colorado. That is the prevailing opinions of PLAYERS as well as the league. Sure players would want the challenge but they know good teams with good chances versus wannabe's Vancouver is in the 4th tier of teams in 4 tier league. You think Petey doesn't know this when the entire world and anyone who can see lightning and hear thunder knows this?
  3. Dermott is probably done. Just another concussion prone player Benning liked to sign or trade for. Barestchi, Ferland, Poolman, Dermott, Beagle, Garland, all had "upper body" injuries. Maybe even more than those. Winnipeg has been on a heater, the Canucks have been pulling a rabbit out of their hats for the last 5 wins, all in extra time. I don't think it is sustainable their style of play, pond hockey. There is nothing new about the Canucks, no real injuries and mostly healthy the entire year so far. They have had an extraordinary period of health since last year. Winnipeg has size and if they are not taking the game as a win before playing this game can be an embarrassment. Canucks have been starting to see back up goalies again, often because they are not taken as seriously anymore. Will Ehlers be returning? With all the extra time games I should go with the Canucks but not this game, sooner or later pure luck runs out. Winnipeg walking away.
  4. He was pretty clear, he isn't about the country club, he wants to win. FYI that is also the sentiment of Horvat; “I want to win,” said Horvat. “I'm getting tired of being out of the playoffs and not being able to fight for the Stanley Cup.” Seems some player still think winning is more important than merely being professionals, Euor's who think the WC and Olympics are more important and the NHL is just a way to make money. Not all Euro's just the "professionals" Ownership notices when seats are empty and bags are on heads. Rutherford still has some runway yet and the silence from the front office is deafening. Something is percolating
  5. No cap space for improvement, no good enough players available, no rebuild but no playoffs either so bye bye Petey. Then a rebuild. They have the next 18 months to become contenders from this group. If it was that easy why hasn't it happened before? Other teams are getting better faster with more upside, younger players getting better, the Canucks just don't have the assets, I guess they could trade away more draft picks for older FA's Maybe trade this year's first for Hedman? Or Ekblad? Or Doughty? Some aging vet on the backside of his contract. How do they get better? How long? Which decade? If EP decides to go then he goes, this is not slavery anymore. If he decides he wants to try for a cup he has only very few times he can make that happen, contract time
  6. Canucks have only tanked (3 yrs) once and that was Quinn and a cup final within 4 years. They have never done an all out tanking in 50+ years and have never won a Cup in 50+ years. Tampa has done 3 = 3 cups, Chicago did a big one = 3 cups, Pittsburgh did 2 = 4 cups, LA did one = 2 cups, Colorado did 3 = 2 cups Don't even go to cup appearances Sure there are many failed rebuilds but if the big one is a hit it seems they last longer with more chances than the plodding approach of trying to build a team one year at a time that results in one cup appearance every 12 to 16 years. If the first one fails fans will know within 4 or 5 years which is much quicker than the 8 or 9 trying and failing. Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa are the only Canadian teams that intentionally tanked and they are all well ahead of the Canucks within a very short number of years.
  7. October 2021; “I want to stay there (Vancouver), now but I also want to play for a team that’s winning and has a chance to go far into the playoffs every year, I feel like we’ve got a chance to do that next year If we have that chance when my next deal expires. I don’t know. I just want to play where there’s a chance of winning.”
  8. Gillis 1rst rnd picks 2008 - 10th - Hodgson, only 2 time Junior hockey player of the year team finished - Lost in conference semi finals 2009 - picking 22 - Schroder - Lost in conference semi finals 2010 - 25th pick traded - President Cup Winners - Lost Stanley cup finals 2011 - 29th pick - President Cup Winners - Lost Conference quarter finals 2012 - 26th pick - Lost Conference quarter finals 2013 - 24th pick and Trade for 9th - Horvat - Finished out of playoffs 2014 - fired Total eight 1rst round picks at an average 23 over all. Gillis did as good as every other top team, cup contender Benning 2014 - 6th overall - out of league and trade for 24th pick - traded - Lost conference quarter finals 2015 - 23rd pick - Boeser 2016 - 5th over all pick - out of league 2017 - 5th pick - Pettersson 2018 - 7th pick - Hughes 2019 - 10th pick - Podkolzin 2020 - traded 1rst - Covid year - At time of cessation of play - tied for 9th in conference - Lost in second round 2021 - Traded 1rst - 9th overall - Guenther 2022 - fired Total eight 1rst round picks at an average pick - 12th overall Number of 1rst round players on the team, 4 - Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes The "Potato" picked better drafted players. Pat Quinn did really good at drafting.
  9. Pretty similar to Detroit when they were winning cups 2014 to 2021 Playoffs every year, back to back cups. They traded away their picks for established players and saved the development time. Apples and Oranges no comparisons. The same for every cup contender, they all often trade their 28th+ picks for established players that help thier team now. The price of success is often at the cost of the future but when the future is NOW they all pay.
  10. If any of that was even close to true how did he allow Benning to fail so often? If it was playoffs or bust and that didn't happen why did he not fire everyone in year 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7? He meddled too much yes? Where? When? He wasn't around the Canuck draft table chatting up anyone making decisions, those are on youtube He wasn't at the introductory first meeting of the new Linden/Benning regime, again on youtube, he wasn't at the "hometown meetings" either. Just where was he? Never up sitting with Benning etal? No reported encounters anywhere in the social media universe, ala Roxie type stuff. With all the hate for him you would think there would have been ONE pic of him talking to Benning or Linden to give instructions. Any owner that meddles is going to be around the team's management in public at some point, there is nada anywhere. The team just became more about the players than the team.
  11. Talking about Benning's 8 years here now. Still need more time? Who? And Tampa tanked twice to get good draft picks.
  12. It is possible that Horvat just wants to play closer to home and for a cup before he is too old. Rick Nash hung around for way too long in Columbus and one of the best players in the league never got a chance to play for a cup when he could still be relevant. Maybe Horvat has just had enough losing and being the spokes person under the media hot lamp. He paid his dues now the team has to put on the best face it can so they don't get trashed for trading a fan favourite without apparent effort put out to keep him, sort of like they are maneuvering for a mutual departure. Both tried but just couldn't get it done.
  13. Still might, there was speculation the owners may pony up the remainder to preserve their teams. The Bettman comments could just be a negotiating start. Reported they need 70 million for the cap restraints to come off, just a little over 2.1 mil a team and then maybe a 4 mi increase. Possible
  14. I think it had more to do with Linden. He was the NHLPA president and was too sensitive to players being moved around like pieces on a board. His trades were still too recent and may have caused him much pain and difficulties so the no trade of vets thing started, especially the Sedins. And then Benning was still too old school thinking of how players should be treated. If the team is FIRST and not the players then the Sedins should have been asked to move for 8 away games and then resigned to retire the next year. That would have dropped the team down to McDavid/Eichel and Mathews potential. I guess it is coming around to "team first" now. I can't disagree about the owner only because he didn't' stop any of it from happening
  15. The cap will go up considerably within the next 2 years so for some teams with enough entry level contracts he is easily affordable. Colorado, Ottawa, Washington, Boston the list of teams in on Horvat is all but 3 or 4. For Miller it is probably around 8 or so. Boeser - 4, Garland - none unless there is massive retention but a buyout is more logical, Myers will have up to 20 teams after his bonus is paid, OEL is a fixture for another 3 years before a buyout is feasible, that pretty much takes all the core out of the equation. Demko would have 16 teams Hughes 20 teams and Pettersson 31 teams. What this team looks like in 2 years should be very different maybe a lot like Buffalo, Ottawa or close to Colorado 3 years ago.
  16. He is the only GM in NHL history to blow so many first round picks or trade them away on a losing team, Virtanen (6), McCann (24), Juloevi (5), Boeser (24) traded away 2019 1rst (23), 2022 first (Guenther), ya he ended up with 4 but had 9 1rst's. Pretty bad drafting or decisions for a last place team or a team with the worst league standings on average over 7 years. Deeper rounds? Who? On the team that is? Hoglander? Is that it? Demko? They are it, 2 out of 53 picks. Ownership should be lauded for the support they have given the team, an open cheque book and not one contract reported to be nixed. Rare public criticisms.
  17. Man you guys don't remember or were not around for McCaw. Everything you want, that was him. Hands off, indeed not even around in the city Left the team totally alone to the point that the GM of the day, Burke, was telling everyone the team could be moved for the price of a quarter and there were some rumors of movement. The most successful team in the league have owners much ore involved in day to day than the Canucks, if anything he was too much hands off too long and let the circus go on too long. Yes he is the reason, he tightened up the amount of money available, he closed the bank and forced the team to pay to an internal cap well under the salary cap and forced Benning into not being able to make trades, he nixed every trade regardless of amount of skill level of the players. He has never ever been involved in any type of hockey, he knows nothing about the game right? But through it all the "potato" drafted better because the owner didn't let Elmer choose. Hmm sounds like McCaw and his hands off operation of the team. Back to the topic, change is coming soon.
  18. LTIR would make no difference if he is not on the team. The recapture would have still been in effect but if he came back then it is absorbed back into a regular contract and subject to LTIR. Pronger got trade twice? once on LTIR, Seabrooke, lots of LTIR trades. You make all those thing the GM had to do like something that happened over night and were surprises and he only had what? 24 hours to take in? His cap control was so skewed it relied on spending money he didn't have and was never gong to have enough space. What RFA negotiations? Hughes and Pettersson? They didn't sign until well after the season was over, Pettersson and Hughes in October? Urgency? You think he negotiates contracts? He is the only employee? he is a lawyer and accountant that he did everything and there was no others? And that every decision needed months of preparation? If Benning was so good why was the teams win loss record so bad? He made the team's right? Why is there no cap space? Because God caused a disaster? Why were other teams able to survive and improve but not this one? Well Benning will go down in infamy for almost destroying this team for a decade or longer, Every aspect of the teams troubles go directly back to him.
  19. Horvat's roll over the years has been more a defensive role, maybe one he wasn't great at but he was never the go to guy on offence. He always has managed to be a playoff performer and scorer. He is playing for his last big contract and scoring counts for more. A good soldier he has been playing his role which was second fiddle to other 1rst line players. "Until they say otherwise" a slip of the tongue?
  20. These kind of statements are usually a precursor to a trade. Very soon. This will not die, it will only grow with every shoulder shrug, nod of the head or slow skate back to the bench. The heat this will produce could be the incentive to pull the trigger on an offer. Coming through the team kind of points to them being prepared for something Wanted to keep it private but couldn't have been louder unless he used a mega phone or less public if he took out a billboard.
  21. Due to the flat cap? Ya that was a big surprise right? Luongo's 3mil cap recapture after NOT trading for him so he could finish in Vancouver on LTIR? who turned that trade down? Oh ya, Benning. Think of it IF he had made that trade no recapture and money and cap space for Tanev, oh ya he ran out of time to talk to him. Ya, that screwed the team. Miller can be traded yet. Horvat will get a massive return with 50% retention now. Minnesota is also interested in Boeser but they would need retention.
  22. Interesting takes on the revision of Benning's history. Somehow a veiled reference to Gillis and his President Trophies as the existing problems. Benning had 8 years here and the group he assembled look to be affecting the team for another 2 yet. GMs are not hired to do the easy jobs, they are hired to work, not cap out and then sit back and watch because they spent all the money and draft capital. I get it there are Benning groupies and loyalists still, poor Benning he could not be held responsible. This new group started off with warning the fans that there would be unpopular moves made and a step back. This new management should not be looked at like the Benning regime where there was inactivity, inaction and little accountability. They are different, they purged the front office because of all the leaks. They hired smart people to add to the operation and building the team, Benning did the opposite. It is possible that everything that has happened so far might have been part of a longer term plan. Boeser was a feel good signing but after that a lot makes sense if looking longer term. Even Miller at 8 million, the clause is a concern though but Miller's personality might make that a non factor later. If there was a longer term plan even signing Kuzmenko to be traded later makes sense. IF they manage to trade Boeser, Horvat, Miller and Kuzmenko that should rebuild the team in one year. All except Boeser could get 1rst round picks plus plus back. Then the Benning purists will have to back all those prospects he drafted as they play in the NHL. If they did get 3 additional 1rst rnd picks this year and a couple more 2nds this could be a quick turn around. While probably not getting the first overall just about the rest of the first round should make the NHL and even into the early 2nd round. At the least the team ends up 4 to 6 points lower in the standings but with 15+ players under 24 yrs old. The chances at a playoff spot would not change for the next couple of years Some posters are so used to Benning's incompetence that they think trades are really hard. Look at Calgary then, in one week they lost their star and then their 2nd essentially told them he was going too, bam, in one week they had irons in the fire. They were never going to "win" after that happened but they did get some surprising returns and signings very quickly. If they are operating under a long term plan and have stifled all internal leaks like Lamorellio hinted they should then there could be some significant things happening soon. Predictions of another decade to rebuild the team are exaggerations, Ottawa only started 3+ years ago and are ahead already. 8 million for a 99 pt center/winger is not excessive for a team in a cup or playoff window. The team could even retain a little bit as well, they should have space for a few years, two cycles of entry level contracts. Just trying to be positive, there is a plan, they told everyone.
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