Law of Goalies

Fair enough but sometimes it is not only the GM deciding as maybe Craw doesn't like van?

I still don't understand how people don't understand you have to sometimes pay more for shorter term.

Wow, you really hate Jake to make these stupid accusations. While you are at it, lets blame Jake for causing Marky to get injured during the playoffs.

Please enlighten us on which NHL player than can give us 30+ points and cost only 1.5-2 mil/season?

In reply to both your comments above, aren't you and a lot of others putting too much emphasis on the "missing a few targets" as it can be misleading as it can be barely missing and not missing by a lot. Also, I wasn't even talking about his work ethic which I do agree that it isn't that good or that high (especially when compared to the Millers/Peteys/Hughes of the world) as even if he barely missed a few targets, he should be exceeding them and not just barely meeting them or his case, missing them. However, I was just responding to someone saying he was Fat...=/

Please get your facts straight. He only came in one season fat and that's why he was quickly demoted to the A. Other times, he only "missed a few targets" in no means indicates he was FAT....come on man

Sure if you think that way, I think it's time to agree to disagree.

The fact is more than half of the posters here are making it sound like he hasn't improved at all and that he only scores 5 goals a year.

OK man, your bias is kind of boring thou. If you think he is horrible during other parts of the season, then there is really nothing much to discuss. IMO, you seem to only base whether a player is good or not is merely on points.

Lol

To be honest, your comment really applies to you more than me. You clearly only focused on points and not overall development. I never said he wasn't streaky cause he is but clearly that's all you focus on. So no point in discussing :/

You lost me when you said he hasn't had linear improvement, bro, watch the game and don't just read articles and read forums.

IMHO, even in the long answer, I think the effect of management might have made a difference in the results. For example, in his first year, he was hitting everyone like crazy and yes, he was out of position at times, but that made us all love him. I remember watching the hits highlights and 90% was from Jake. Afterwards, the 2nd year he came in, he was super fat (it was reported that management told him to get "bigger", not sure how much context is true or not true but he did come in "bigger" and maybe there was no guidance on how to become "bigger"). He was then demoted to AHL where he shed so much weight that he was ripped by the end of the season (good for Green). The third year, he didn't come in out of shape and was still fit from his days in the AHL and made the team. Didn't have a good year as he was adjusting back to NHL life. By the end of the third year, he stated in the season ending press conference, he will work on his skill set. He went out and found Pavel Barber and was learning and doing sick moves with the puck. Therefore, in the fourth year, he didn't come in out of shape and scored in the first or second game of the season on a breakaway and everyone was freaking out. He then finished the season with 15 and 10. This season, he came in and missed a few targets (as mentioned before, his targets might have been super high and he didn't meet it), but in no ways was he "FAT". He improved again and got 18 and 18. For the restart, he was not reported "fat" but only immature for clubbing and not joining the team earlier, therefore, his timing was off that even Tanev toe dragged him. Throughout his NHL days, he has been playing through the lineup and I don't think I have seen him with the same line mates for more than 5 games. It is like working for 8 different colleagues and not being able to get any type of chemistry with them. However, after year 1 and that suspension, he has tried to be physical but two reasons have made him a bit tentative which is 1. the suspension might have got to his head and 2. every time he did something wrong, he would be benched and seems to have a shorter leash than other players. In addition, he has to learn the two way game which I'm sure he wasn't required to do so in juniors. Furthermore, he didn't help his own cause too especially in the first few years where he would be partying too much, hanging out with Biebs and banging Chloe Moretz and even now, he is still partying (before the bubble) and doing stupid stuff. I don't mind him going drinking but he shouldn't have due to COVID. Therefore, I do think it is a bit of both.

I would say it is a bit of both.

Re: the bolded part The thing is, he did take advantage, were you even watching the games or are you just saying what everyone else is saying. For example, when he was given first line in game 5 against the Blues, guess what, he scored 1 G and 1A. And then he got demoted to 4th line in the 3rd period. How is that not taking advantage? And for people who say he was only good for those "20 games" where he went on a tear/streak, guess what line he was on? 1st and 2nd lines. And I do reiterate, for the games outside of the "20 games" he went on a tear, he was quite consistent in terms of not doing something every shift. I remember even on these boards, there wasn't much hate this season because he was relatively consistent. Not PETEY/HUGHES consistent but consistent as a middle 6 forward.

Thanks so much man!

Wow..do you have the list for the other awards? I wanted to see who voted for three Canucks players in the Hart category.

Sorry man..I wasn't specifically targeting you. I was reading through the first few pages and people were saying the likes of "It is easy to keep both, just sign Mark to 3-4 years with no expansion protection and have no "NTC/NMC", it will be fine. I mean it is quite impossible to think he will agree to that.

I still don't understand how people believe Marky will accept a contract with no expansion protection. If I was him and since I am 30, I will (deserving) ask for a higher amount with a longer period with expansion protection.

She did go to my highschool in Vancouver, Lord Byng Secondary. She is in no way a Leafs fan!

That's like saying if you put BB6 or Petey on the 3/4th line or for similar big men, i.e. Bertuzzi, Pastranak, Tkachuk on the 3rd/4th lines, they will most likely be ineffective too (although Petey might be the exception thou, haha). I am not trying to compare Jake to anyone of the aforementioned players but I am just trying to say that some players are offensive players and only play better when given an offensive role. Although his body is fit for a 3/4th line role, it doesn't mean he has to play on that line. However, if he is put on the top 6 and doesn't even produce, then you can say we have a problem. However, he has played decent from being on the 1st line all to way to the 4th line while being better on the first two lines.

I think no one here is not excited about Podz as I am also quite excited for him. My view is that keeping Virt here in Vancouver is not going to hurt the Canucks (financially or games won) and if Pods overtakes him (in terms of effort/passion/stamina/points/etc..), then we can trade Jake or we can push Jake to the 4th line. I mean everyone is saying Podz is going to be the next GOAT and will be the next [insert crazy good player here] but can you be 100%? I feel that if we trade Jake now, it is going to be a mistake.

I hope you aren't jumping off his bandwagon based on that? And the worse thing is "he isn't surprised" which means he doesn't even know..so ok

I understand and do acknowledge your points but my point is not rebutting what you are saying throughout this thread, it is giving you another point of view of the situation. In relation to it being a silver lining, it won't be a silver lining if he broke out and only asked for a low amount. That will be a home town discount/bad agent and not a "silver lining". What I am trying to say is, maybe view it in an optimistic way. He wasn't as good as his draft position so we don't have to pay him top dollars but he has definitely contributed to our success (based on the stats) and it doesn't hurt our cap situation and maybe when he finally breaks out, and we need to pay him top dollars, we will have money for that. In terms of being out of shape, I still don't understand how people got this theory after reading a lot of interviews and articles. The only time he truly was over weight was when he came in one year, totally out of shape, and then was demoted to Utica to shed weight and become a better player. After that, this year at the beginning, he wasn't "out of shape", he only missed a few goals. I'm sure Travis was super strict on his requirements and his punishments (i.e. if Travis told him to come in at 200 pounds but he came in at 205/210), that is missing a goal but not being "out of shape" and I'm sure Travis didn't give any leeway and was strict in his punishments. When people hear "missing goals", they quickly assume he was "out of shape". In terms of the restart, i have read a lot of reports saying teammates and management were unhappy he went out partying and was kind of irresponsible (which I totally agree as it was really irresponsible on his part but only on the irresponsible as he might have been training hard during the day and wanted a break but no one knows but everyone loves to assume) but when he was on the ice, none of the clips showed that he was slow or "out of shape". He definitely missed a lot of his timing since even Tanev toe dragged on him and needed time to get it back as he is definitely not as fast a learner as Petey/Hughes et al. In terms of him being less committed than the top 6, sorry, let's just agree to disagree on that. In terms of takeaways, I know you are merely basing on stats but to be fair, I saw at least a few per game that were not recorded in the stats line. Even hits, unless the commentator caught it, it won't be recorded due to the lack of personnel per game to keep track of stats. Furthermore, Motte having more shots is indicate of him playing almost 17/18 minutes to Jakes 11/12 minutes a game. If you have 6 WHOLE MINUTES more, you are bound to have more shots. That's like saying Oh, Petey has more shots than Jake..lol. In addition, we all know Motte is a defensive specialist but he was a hobey baker finalist and a scorer in junior, I'm sure it took him time to transform into a defensive specialist. This also brings me to Miller who I do believe is a trajectory that Jake seems to be following. For me, he is definitely not hurting the team, so why not keep him here as he is one of the few players who can play throughout the whole line up (except defence/goalie obviously) and he is at a cheap price. Not that many 2 million players can give you 40 points a season. However, one thing I definitely agree with you on and cannot provide you with a different point of view is I do believe that him being in Vancouver is definitely hurting him more than helping him as I think he concentrated the most when he was in Utica, away from his friends and pressure. So maybe he does need a change of scenery but the fan in me, wants to keep him as he definitely has been trending upwards. (A point to your statement is that you say since he started at zero (in terms of whatever aspect you can think of), he can only go up but to be honest, I have seen players just keep it status quo and not improve on any aspect, at least he is improving).

The last point about the trading assets for Toffoli if he broke out..that is the silver lining. He hasn't really broken out with 40 points and he only cost 2 mil. Now we can have both Toffoli and Virt. And if you want to say drive of comparing Jake with the top 6. Besides Petey, Miller, Bo, I would say his drive fits around the bottom of top 6. I might make an excuse for Boeser a bit more since he showed a bit more drive in the playoffs. But besides these four out of six, I wouldn't say Jake has less drive than Pearson or Ericksson. And you say he doesn't back check? Do you even watch the games? Excluding his back checking that everyone seems to see in the playoffs but completely forget that they might have saw during the regular season, I think his defensive work has improved immensely. As what another poster said, it seems like his game is being reinvented here. He went from being a scoring force in juniors to being a two way player. Look at Tyler Motte, he was a hobey baker finalist and now he is a defensive specialist. He was drafted I think one year earlier than Jake (albeit 121st overall) but I'm sure he took some time to redevelop his game (please correct me if anyone knows his trajectory better). Also, look at Miller, the Miller we see now is the finished product of many years for him to "get it". That's why Miller did say he sees a lot of himself in Jake.