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Everything posted by Ihatetomatoes
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What did Tallinder do? I'm just looking at the box score and he had 14min of penalties. Was wondering how Juolevi ended up with more minutes that him, usually he's TPS's high minute man
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They played 18 minutes of overtime so all the minutes are inflated. Being the top minutes LHD is a really good sign though http://liiga.fi/ottelut/2017-2018/playoffs/458/tilastot/
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Should be noted as well that Juolevi was the high minute playing Left defender, Played 2 min more than Tallinder who is usually their top minute guy. 2 Other defenseman played more than him but they are listed as RHD and it looks to be because there is a weak link on the right side that didn't play much.
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I don't think weight and strength are a concern for Juolevi anymore. He's listed at 190lbs and will naturally put on more. He also easily neutralized and outmuscled forwards during the WJCs on the boards. What he needs to work on now is quickness and fitness. Salo hasn't exactly been that subtle when he's alluded to this with Juolevi, I don't think he's been that impressed with Juolevi's dedication to off ice training and knows he's going to really have to get serious about it this offseason if he is going to take being a professional in the NHL seriously. Hopefully Juolevi has the work ethic to do what needs to be done this offseason.
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Ya I it was very apparent that a lot of the players that had monster seasons also had very strong supporting casts to inflate their numbers, something which Kole doesn't have at all, I don't think he even plays on a line with Dube either as far as I know. Is there a good website to look at those SEAL adjusted scoring rates? It's really interesting to look into as there is so much development for these players at those ages and what seems not much of an age gap between an 18 year old and a 19 year old has a dramatic difference in point production. If the age cutoff was a month later Kole would have been the youngest in his draft year and probably a late round pick. Now he's actually one of the oldest in his draft class so going by age the numbers he has put up are just not as impressive. But like you said and I was making notes of you have to take into account experience because it's obvious that each season in the WHL almost every player makes a progression in production so while Kole is the one of the oldest in his draft class and born a year earlier he still has the same amount of experience in that league as the other players that were born in 99. Definitely excited to see what Kole can do as a pro next year, even ignoring stats you can see he has a pro level shot and vision.
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DIIIIRRRTYYY...
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For sure. I think numbers can tell a lot but they obviously aren't a rule and there are obviously always outliers. Unfortunately I don't get to watch Lind play other than highlights so I just got curious on how his season is stacking up statistically against players of the past that have or have not made the NHL
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So I got curious about how many guys have put up 100pts in the WHL as 19 year olds or older. There has been a lot. I made note of how many seasons they have played in the WHL as experience is also a major factor as well as age. I also added in a NHL few notables. Colin Long - 100pts in 72 games. Age 21 Mark Santorelli - 101pts in 72 games. Age 19 / 2nd season but player 2 in the BCHL Brandon Kozun - 107pts in 65 games Age 19 / 2nd full season Bett Sonne - 100pts in 62 games Age 19 / 4th full season Casey Pierro-Zabatel - 115pts in 72 games Age 19 (Played with Evander Kane) Jordan Eberle - 106pts in 57 games Age 19 / 4th full season Linden Vey - 116pts in 69 games Age 19 / 4th Full season Tyler Johnson - 115pts in 71 games Age 20 Brendan Shinniman - 134pts in 69 games Age 20 Adam Hughesman - 116pts in 72 games Age 20 Patrick Holland - 109pts in 72 games Age 19 / 3rd full season Jordan Weal - 116pth in 70 games Age 19 / 2nd full season Emerson Etem - 107pts in 65 games Age 19 / 3rd full season Mark Stone - 123pts in 66 games Age 19 / 4th full season Michael Ferland - 96pts in 68 games Age 19 / 3rd full season Ty Rattie - 110pts in 62 games Age 19 / 4th full season (Did put up 100pts in 3rd full season Colin Smith - 106pts in 72 games Age 19 / 4 season (1st season was a half season) Justin Feser - 106pts in 72 games Age 20 Mitch Holmberg - 118pts in 72 games Age 20 Oliver Bjorkstrand - 118pts in 59 games Age 19 / 3rd full season *Nic Petan - 89pts in 54 games Age 19 / 4th full season. * His ppg was too high to not include him here Trevor Cox - 109pts in 69 games Age 19 / 4th full season Tim McGauley - 105pts in 72 games Age 19 / 3rd full season Adam Brooks - 120pts in 72 games Age 19 / 4th full season Drayden Hunt - 116pts in 72 games Age 19 / 5th season (How young did this guy start playing in the league) *Brayden Point - 88pts in 48 games Age 19 / 4th full season Jayce Hawryluk - 106pts in 58 games Age 19 / 4th full season Looking at all this definitely makes what Kole is doing this year less impressive if you go by age rather than draft year. There is a lot of players that have had monster season that haven't gone onto NHL success. Also I just realized that Kole only has 3 games left in the season so he might not even hit 100pts. He's at 91 in 56 games. That said he'd have easily made it if he had hit it if he had played more games and it's just an arbitrary number anyhow. Looking at what players that played in the WHL in their 19 year old seasons and have gone onto NHL success and what they have did in their 19 year old seasons Matt Barzal - 79pts in 41 games 1.92ppg Brayden Point - 88pts in 48 games 1.83ppg Mark Stone - 123pts in 66 games 1.86ppg Oliver Bjorkstrand - 118pts in 59 games 2ppg Brayden Schenn - 53pts in 27 games 1.96ppg Jamie Benn - 82pts in 56 games 1.46ppg Jordan Eberle - 106pts in 57 games 1.85ppg Brendan Gallagher - 77pts in 56 games 1.375ppg Right now Kole is at 1.63 ppg. Going by ppg and age he definitely seems a tier below most of these guys that have gone onto being top 6 forwards in the NHL. A lot of these guys are 1st line forwards though so if I were to deduce anything from this Kole isn't likely to develop into a 1st line forward and his production in his 19 year old season projects him to be a 2nd or 3rd line forward or a not an NHL player, if we're going by age. Some people think it should just go by draft year, I'm not sure how I feel about that as if he was born a few weeks earlier he would have been drafted a year earlier. Also should be noted that Kole doesn't really have much help and quite a few of the players on this list had other excellent players to play with and boost up their ppg.
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Jagr Malkin Hossa Turris Tavares I'm ok with this
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The thing I take away from this is that Dahlen had the skill to actually tuck that it from the angle he had coming around the net. You constantly see guys trying that and if they have the goalie beat they can't get the angle on the stick to actually tuck it in near post. It's quite impressive. That said I don't think an NHL goalie gets beat on that play. How many wrap around goals do you ever see in the NHL these days?
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The WHL is a strange league for developing forwards. A tonne of defenseman have come out the the W but it seems there is a lot less forwards and it is hard to find comparables for Kole Lind. I did a bit of digging and this is what I found looking for top 6 forwards. I ignored the older generation of guys like Getzlaf and Marleau. Eberle - Drafted #11 Didn't hit 100pts until his D+2 Jaime Benn - Drafted #125 Didn't ever hit 100pts. Scored 82pts in 56 games in his D+2. He's a late bloomer though Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - Drafted #1 106pts in 69 games in Draft year Sam Reinhardt - Drafted #2. 105pts in 60 games in draft year Brayden Schenn - Drafted #5. Scored 99pts in 59 games in his D+1. Brendan Gallagher - 5th round pick and never much of a point producer Jake Debrusk - Drafted #14. D+1 he put up 65pts in 61 games. He's looking like a pretty good NHL player. Oliver Bjorkstrand - Drafted #89 Put up 109pts in 69 games in D+1 and 118pts in 59 games in D+2. Played on a stacked Winterhawks team though. Leon Draisaitl - Drated #3. Put up 105pts in 64 games in draft year and 52pts in 32 games in D+1. He's a beast though. Nino Niederreiter - Drafted #5. Put up 70 in 55 games in D+1 Ryan Johansen - Drafted #4. Put up 92pts in 63 games in D+1 Matthew Barzal - Drafted #16. Put up 88pts in 58 games in D+1 Mark Stone - Drafted #178. Put up 106pts in 71 games in D+1 Brayden Point - Drafted #79. Put up 87pts in 60 games in D+1 Sven Baertchi - Drafted #13. Put up 94pts in 47 games in D+1 Again that Stacked Portland team Evander Kane - Drafted #4. Put up 97pts in 64 games in Draft year Going back to 2008 these are players that have hit 100pts in their D+1 seasons and haven't had much NHL success. Petan 113pts in 63 games. Tiny guy and stacked Portland Rattie 121pts in 69 games. Stacked Portland Leipsic 120pts in 68 games. Tiny Guy and Stacked Portland. (Yes I know he's looked good but he was a throwaway on an expansion team) Weal 102pts in 72 games in his draft year actually. I wonder what scouts saw in him that made him a 3rd round pick. Kozun 108pts in 65 Tiny guy Michael St. Croix 105pts in 72 games Colin Smith 106pts in 72 games (May have been an overager in the draft?) What I've deduced from all of this is that Kole is looking like a bit of a stud. The only guy that has put up points like him and didn't have NHL success that wasn't on an absolutely stacked team or wasn't a tiny guy is Michael St. Croix. He put up 105pts in 72 games and led his team by 20pts. Closest comparable with NHL success seems to be Mark Stone. 106 points in 71 games. Plays wing, wasn't playing on a stacked team and led his team in points. The one question mark on all this is that Kole is 19 while most of these guys were 18 in Their D+1 years. An absolute $&!# tonne of players has put up over 100pts in their D+2 years at 19 years old. However since Kole is only in his 3rd full WHL season at 19 while most other guys were in their 4th full season at 19 it swings in back toward being optimistic about Koles chance of success.
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I really can't imagine the scouting department picking Boqvist or Hughes over Svech and Zadina. Svech and Zadina have almost zero holes in their game and are as close as you get to a guaranteed 1st line 30 goal scoring wingers. While both Boqvist and Hughes have big question marks on their size and ability to play defense. I keep imagining a world with Svechnikov, Pettersson and Boeser in our top 6. That would be a dirt nasty offense.
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I believe Bouchard still has some major developing to do on the defensive side of the puck before he is NHL ready.
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Lol...This is so hard to picture. The most opposite style of players imaginable yet I can see where you're coming from
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I'm guessing Juolevi isn't eligible to come over and play with the Comets or the Canucks when his season is done with TPS ya? I'm sure there would have been talk about it like there has been with Dahlen.
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I think you're reaching a bit to call Sbisa a bonafide top 4 player. You're basically ignoring 3 seasons of playing here as the pizza delivery man and taking a 30 game sample size from Vegas to conclude that Benning was right on his assessment of Sbisa. Sbisa has a team worst corsi of 43% on Vegas so I'm not so sure it's safe to call him the top 4 defenseman that Benning thought he would be. As for as Gudbranson saying we have yet to see what he can bring after 2 full seasons at the age of 26 is a lot like Sbisa, it's hoping on a player becoming the player you want to be, not what he is. Benning seems to pro scout like he amateur scouts, expecting these older guys to develop into something else. I don't think Gudbranson is a bad player or a bad signing but when you heard Benning talk about how good he was and what his role would be as a top 4 defenseman then watched him play you could see there was a disconnect. Also we're forgetting about Clendenning for Forsling, how he thought Clendenning was an NHL defenseman is another big question mark on his ability to evaluate defenseman at an NHL level and like you mentioned Larsen too. Any of these on their own and you don't really blink an eye. But Sbisa, Gudbranson, Larsen, Clendenning. All guys that were evaluated poorly, all moves that made you question what he was thinking and getting Stecher who was a college free agent signing that wanted to come home and play for the Canucks and Pouliot who is still another guy who is a hopeful to be a bonafide top 4 defenseman doesn't really balance it out to bring confidence into his ability to evaluate defenseman at the NHL level. Compared to his trades and signing for forward talent at the NHL level where he has had some misses (Vey, Eriksson) but also some wins (Baertchi, Dorsett) and it evens out and brings confidence that while he may miss on a few he'll still hit on a few and find talent. Anyway I don't want to turn this whole thread into a Benning debate. Just couldn't resist throwing out my 2c
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There's always going to be people who don't like the pick but I feel the Pettersson pick was fairly tame compared to previous picks. The meltdown with Virtanen over Nylander/Ehlers was incredible. Juolevi over Tkachuk wasn't as bad at that but it was still quite heated. A few people wanted Glass or Vilardi but it seemed most were happy we took a risk with the guy with the most skill and highest ceiling. Just imagine right now if we had taken Glass....eesh.
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Ya I'm excited and nervous to see what Benning will do to shore up the defensive side of our prospects. I'm a little nervous because while he's shown to be able to draft and find excellent forward talent so far, with his pro scouting he's been less than stellar evaluating defenseman. I mean picking up Sbisa in the Kelser trade then signing him to a 4m a year contract with the expectations he's going to be a solid top 4 defender was a big tell all. Same with Gudbranson, I don't mind Guddy but it seems Benning is just a bit off on his expectations of what these defenseman can do. Hopefully, as we've seen with Benning so far is that his amateur scouting is much better than his pro scouting and he really hasn't used many of his picks yet on defenseman. It's too early to really get a read on what Juolevi will turn into and other than that Breisbois seems to be doing decent for a 3rd rounder. Rathbone is way to far off to have any idea so really we haven't had much to go on to judge what Benning can do with his amatuer scouting of defenseman but he has shown to be pretty dismal at evaluating the talent level of NHL defenseman. Although he does get some brownie points for getting Pouliot, he has potential.
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Ya I wasn't worried more curious if it were possible to compare his stats to a player that has made the NHL. Really hard to say if his 1.8ppg is good or not for an NHL hopeful in that league. Just have to wait until next year in the NCAA to see. I did look up Donato's stats and he had about a 2.5ppg in his draft year then dropped to a 1.6ppg in his D+1. He looked like one of the better players on team USA but I have no idea on his chances at being an NHL player. Also on Dexters website they do list all of their drafted players. 4 of them. Ryan Donato – Boston Bruins Tim Harrison – Calgary Flames Cam Darcy – Tampa Bay Lightning Jack Rathbone – Vancouver Canucks
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Are they any NHL comparable out there for Rathbone? Guys that have played in the same league in their D+1 year
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I see the Islanders being a team willing to pay up for Tanev. If they want to keep Tavares they're going to have to show they are willing to do what it takes to build a winning team. My guess is that they wait and make sure that the Calgary pick isn't a lottery winner, if it isn't they use it to pick up a top 4 defenseman. Basically giving up what they got for Hamonic. 1st and 2 2nds.
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Also if moving him for picks the sooner the better as our defensive prospect group severely lags behind our forward prospect group. Considering defenseman usually take a bit longer to develop it's definitely in the teams best interest to turn those draft picks into defensive prospects sooner rather than later. Ideally we trade him for a prospect and a pick. Liljegren and a 2nd or something of the sort.
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To be fair that isn't saying much. It is nice to get some feedback on how he has been doing this year, I've been wondering how his game would develop.
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Just going by the stat page he was on the ice for 2 goals for and 3 against. How much did he factor into those goals?
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Vilardi is a big and skilled. When you have size and know how to use it you don't have to be an elite skater. Glad we got Pettersson but Valardi was next on the list for sure