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Everything posted by kilgore
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You can't prove a negative, or in this case a positive. So we'll never know how much better a position we would be in if JB had started the rebuild in earnest years earlier. I think we'd be ahead, but I can't prove that. Perhaps making the playoffs in 2015 could be argued as an excuse for thinking we had more than we did. I give Jim a mulligan on holding fast into 2016. As someone mentioned in the thread, the charges of him being saddled with inferior untradable players, ....well Jim thought, with the Aquilini's prodding, that these were a good enough base of backup players to go for it again. It wasn't so much that he couldn't trade or deal for picks, its that he didn't try. When they failed to make the playoffs in 2016, that should have been the final straw and we should have been not shy of the word rebuild, but be shouting it from the streets. Much like NYR did. It was a lost opportunity. The fans in the city were knowledgeable and prepared for a years long rebuild. But the owner was not. JB should have, after the 2016 season, gone to the Sedins, Burrows, Higgins, Hansen, Edler, Hamhuis, (probably missing some) and told them in no uncertain terms that a ground up rebuild is what they were going to do. And they could waive their no trade, no move, and Jim could look to move them to contending teams, or they could stay but under the knowledge that there would be no long term major signings (Eriksson, Gagner, ...) No trading picks for help. They would have to live or die with bringing up more youth and only minor trades to fill positions and make improvements when they could. At least for the first couple of seasons. I have a hard time swallowing the perpetual excuse of "look what Gillis left him to work with!" This is 5 years in now. How long does that excuse hold water? Don't ask me how he could have handled the roster, and prospects that Gillis had left him, that's HIS job. Other GMs find creative ways. He never once considered weaponizing the cap. I think he even stated that in an interview. That's why he gets paid the big bucks. But I don't even think its because he couldn't, its because he didn't even try, at the behest of the owner. I realize that hindsight is 20/20. Eriksson may have been the missing link. The heir apparent to Burrows on the Sedin line. Gagner, Vey, Gudbranson, Vrbata, (probably missing some) all might have played above expectations rather than below. Although I still doubt that crew, even at their best, was a Cup winning roster. But the reality is that, yes, we have a few good prospects. What about that second tier coming in to back up the current rookies? There are some promising prospects but is it enough? Its too late now to start a traditional rebuild. We'd miss out on a lot of our new crop of rookies potentials, as well as wasting Bo's best years. So its full steam ahead now. Done with the rebuild. In Jim we (now must) trust. Even though in my gut I have a hard time thinking our present team's makeup can win the Cup now. Must....Not......Be.....Negative...... I'm trying. I want to believe.
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Good signing Jim! I got to give him credit when its due. For that price, its a great signing.
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This July 1st, Benning can make us a playoff team, or a Cup contender.
kilgore replied to Arrow 1983's topic in Canucks Talk
I feel ya bro. And with Boeser signed we are spent to the limit. But as a fan, a long time fan, I gotta believe that somehow, some way, everything will work out perfectly. At least more things working than not working. Anyone with a smidgen of hockey knowledge, and has followed this team, if they were honestly looked back at JB tenure here, are disappointed in general. Yes, Petey and Brock soothe a lot of wounds, and mask the mistakes. As well as Markstrom's improvement. But now Hutton leaves for nothing, when he was having a bit of a better year and could have been moved for SOMETHING just before the TD. Its not the LE contract that is slowly hurting this team, every GM makes mistakes, many have their own "LE" contract to deal with, so you could give a mulligan to JB on that. That was a deep cut, but its the small cuts of a thousand knives that has been more harmful. Losing players for nothing, overpaying, over-terming, over-valuing. Under-draft picking. And please no more....it was all Gillis's fault. If this team is now stacked with untradable assets after 5 years of JB, its on him now. Other GMs pull out creative ways to shed players. Its like a Prime Minister or President 5 years in blaming the previous admin for a bad economy. There's a point where you have to take responsibility. Its not that we have an empty glass, I can see that if everything works out we will watch an improved team this season, I can overlook that Myers lost the confidence of coach Maurice, and believe he'll flourish here with a greater role, and a new city, for instance. He and Benn have definitely improved our D. Miller will improve our top 6 production. I'm just not sure that topping up our cap with these "final pieces" will put us over the top. It was pointed out that its remarkable that the second worst team in the last 4 years, Buffalo is the only one under us, has a full cap! At least Buffalo has had a 1st and 2nd overall in that time to soothe that position. IMO, JB has built a house with a few solid rock stars on the top floor, and a whole lot of sand bricks holding it up underneath. If there's not too much wind, and if the injury wolf stays away, ....everything and everybody plays to their highest possible projection, we may make the playoffs. I don't know how many others do, but I live in two worlds with the Canucks. No matter how many bad moves or non moves, being a rabid fan, I HAVE to believe everything will work out. I don't want to concentrate on mistakes (I swear). But then another hit happens to pull me down to earth....now its Hutton a 26 year old serviceable D, probably signing in Toronto, who was a relatively solid D for us for years, and we got nothing. Taken on its own its negligible, but adding all the small cuts over the years, and saddled with questionable longer term deals for years to come, its difficult to feel confident in JB going forward. But I HAVE to believe. Its the only NHL team I have. It HAS to work. I refuse to imagine not making the playoffs for two years and then losing a #1 pick. It simply CAN'T happen. . . . -
[Signing] Lightning sign Luke Schenn
kilgore replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Wait.... I'm confused. Tampa, a Cup contending team, thinks he can play a bigger role than the Canucks do on our team? Can't have it both ways. Either Tampa's GM is really stupid, or JB needs a good head shake. IMO from the eye test I saw, he'd fit in as a 5 or 6 D on the Canucks. At least before we got Benn. (Could have used the cap space) Moving up or down depending on the opposition. He's a presence we sorely lack on this team. We have a team full of reluctant fighters. He looked like he actually enjoyed the role. Not as a literal fighter per say, but as a mean aggressor on the ice. When's the last time we had that, in that weight category? And he can move the puck well. Maybe no amount would have kept him here, I just hope JB tried is all. -
[Signing] Lightning sign Luke Schenn
kilgore replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Maybe he really didn't want to be here, but its hard to believe that. He played well, fans loved him. He played the way we had hoped Gudbranson would have, at a fraction of the price. I hope JB offered him at least a million. And he STILL chose Tampa Bay @ $700,000. That would be the only excuse for the Canucks not to have him resigned. Does anyone honestly think Fantenberg as a depth D is worth $150,000 more than Schenn, and what he brings in size? Brother Jim give your head a shake. -
For an established older veteran green man who just needs a change of scenery to revamp his career.
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Lets just say if we miss the playoffs again, it would probably mean that Miller has under-performed. Or at least the same suspects out of other acquisitions of grunts that no one else wants, even for a late round pick, he has collected over the years. And they are continuing to under-perform, but of course must be given ice time over our ice starved prospects, because Aquilini and his facilitator JB had dreams of the playoffs dancing in their heads. And don't forget Green is now starting to feel pressure himself so will be hard pressed not to play, say, Sutter over Gaudette when, if ever, it comes down to the crunch. Or to put it another way, if we have the exact same season, only difference is this time we have also lost a first rounder in the next draft in 2021, and Aquilini STILL keeps him, and in fact would have to re-sign him if he did, probably to longer than a one year extension for Jim to accept it, then Aquaman would would be the laughing stock of the NHL, as well as the most unpopular owner in Canucks history. The idea that in such a case, Aquilini would be okay with Benning NEXT Summer spending his money again and adding more FAs and shedding draft picks is hard to believe. . .
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Jim Benning: June 27th, 2019 (Recapture penality/free agency)
kilgore replied to Rush17's topic in Canucks Talk
I said "unspoken". Come on. its common sense. Not a conspiracy. Its not like Lu's decision to retire is illegal. Its just something that with other players in a similar situation have all gone on long term IR. That Lu forfeited money in order to help the Panthers. That he's long been rumoured to be interested in being a part of the Panthers org for awhile now, and his wife's family is not going anywhere. Its all circumstantial, but its a bit of a stretch to think the Panthers wouldn't be happier with him if he forfeits 3 million dollars for himself, while saving the Panthers of millions. You can argue that all this was random, that Lu didn't take into consideration at all of the Panthers situation. But, just my opinion, I doubt it. -
WOOHOO!
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Will the Canucks win a dispute with NHL on cap penalty?
kilgore replied to Slegr's topic in Canucks Talk
Thanks for the info. The "retired early" thing affected the amount. Still, it doesn't excuse that they had that first round pick given back upon appeal. They got some kind of relief at least. Canucks too have an argument for "changes in circumstances". For one, going all the way back to it being retroactive to Florida influencing the outcome to help them the most and hurt us the most. The Devils recently applied to the League for reconsideration and relief from a portion of the original penalty, citing primarily changes in circumstances which, in the Club’s view, changed the appropriateness of the sanctions initially imposed. -
Will the Canucks win a dispute with NHL on cap penalty?
kilgore replied to Slegr's topic in Canucks Talk
I really hope you are right. But they've already stated publicly that there's nothing they can do. (I corrected that link to where it should be BTW) -
Will the Canucks win a dispute with NHL on cap penalty?
kilgore replied to Slegr's topic in Canucks Talk
Yup. I don't get why Jim Benning hasn't or can't fight harder against this. The fact that it was a retroactive penalty based on a decision by Bettman and other owners should count for something. New Jersey with Kovalchuk. A little different circumstances but still, they appealed and got a reduction of their penalty. Why do we get this shrug of the shoulders and "there's nothing we can do about it"? https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/nhl-reduces-punishment-for-devils-ilya-kovalchuk-deal-1.2562583 The New Jersey Devils won't have to forfeit a first-round pick after all for attempting to circumvent the salary cap by signing Ilya Kovalchuk to a 17-year deal in 2010, the NHL announced Thursday. The league originally docked the club a first-round pick in either 2011, 2012, 2013 or 2014 along with a third-rounder in 2011 and US$3 million for trying to give the Russian star a contract that lasted until his mid-40s just to even out the cap hit. The Devils recently applied to the league for reconsideration and relief from a portion of the original penalty, citing primarily changes in circumstances which, in the club's view, changed the appropriateness of the sanctions. . . -
Jim Benning: June 27th, 2019 (Recapture penality/free agency)
kilgore replied to Rush17's topic in Canucks Talk
Force is the wrong word. How about the unspoken "force" of less of a chance at being a part of the Florida organization after he leaves hockey? Less of a chance he'll get honors like a jersey retirement or at least the equivalent of a ring of honour accolade? He and his Florida family are not moving back here anytime. I'm sure he realizes that pleasing the Panthers is more beneficial to him than helping his old team way up in Canada. .. -
Drafting is a crap shoot. Sure. But that is still the best way to build a winner. Also, its what Jim promised and based on his experience as a scout, we took him at his word. The difference between established vets and prospects is that with vets there is not as much risk....Louie Eriksson was sure to get 25 goals playing with the Sedins....oh wait. Okay, bad example. What I'm getting at is with vets you pretty well know their ceiling, and pretty well know their floor. As well they have proven they are NHL regulars, which not all draft picks below the first round may get to. And that is a plus. BUT, the reason why building through the draft is better is that, yes, you will have most of your picks never make in the big league, but for the ones that do, you can't predict their ceiling. Its the cheapest way to find gems. Like Boeser @ 23. Who if you had to trade for him today, it would cost you plenty. And the more draft picks you build up, the more chances for these gems to pop up. Many you never know their potential until you see them play a season in the NHL. So its not as certain as just acquiring free agents (at ridiculous prices) or trading for other teams rejects, but more a chance you hit a jackpot, even in later rounds. Detroit's Datsyuk and Zetterberg come to mind. Perhaps even Tryamkin if he makes it back across the pond. Its a gamble either way. But if you are supposedly in a rebuild, where we were, or should have been, 5 years ago, it makes more sense to try the draft pick type of gamble, When there is no expectation for playoffs from fans. But its too late now for that. We have to all get behind this new quasi rebuild on the fly now. Jim will live or die by it. It might work. I hope so.
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So its if you are against him continuing on from here? Like tomorrow? Because even if one was disappointed with his tenure here, if he left tomorrow, none of his perceived mistakes by some would leave with him. So even if we got a more experienced hockey GM, we wouldn't see much change for a few years from what it is. Its a little late for that question. JB will live or die by this summers moves. If it all works out I'm happy, if it fails, he'll be gone anyways. So its a pointless question IMO In the present, we can only evaluate what Benning has done from a past perspective. No one 'hated' his being hired I don't think. We were all willing to give him a shot. But If the question was, would you, in hindsight, have wanted Aquilini to have hired an experienced name recognizable GM who would have followed through with his promise to build through the draft , find more creative ways to get rid of contracts etc...then I'd have to consider a yes to that. But that's not the question.
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Interesting comparison. Different types of players. But in the same boat kind of. I think both still have potential to improve, but for both its mostly between the ears. As far as ice skills, Goldobin has a higher ceiling for offense. But Jake has a greater potential as a better all around player. And he has size, which maybe, all things considered, weighs the argument in his favour more. If either one of them could have some kind of epiphany like other players have in the past...Bertuzzi comes to mind when he was traded here. The question is can they make that leap without the shock of being traded and the pressure of a "last chance" situation?. Virtanen grew up playing junior being the biggest boy on the ice, and ran over his peers with ease, which helped his position at the draft. Then he's drafted by his home town team, so has an instant level of comfort, which also includes a built in fan base here, and a more forgiving honeymoon period. I think NHL players are no different than workers in other industries in this way....there are those whose whole purpose is to advance, get bonuses, get into a foreman position, then eventually into management, with higher income each stage. Then there are those who'd rather just come in, do their job sorting widgets, punch out no later than they are required to, go home, put the Canucks game on, and sleep and repeat. They'd rather have a comfortable enough life, but a lot less stress and pressure involved in trying to get ahead of all the other rats in the rat race. Especially looking around in the pro factory, nothing like the junior factory, and realizing how much effort it would take to push yourself ahead of the pack. It doesn't mean they don't enjoy the job, or want to quit or do anything else, they'd just rather put in the time and punch out. So its really that we want both of these guys to wake up and not only realize that its now or never, but also that they want it.
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Dumb poll question. No Canucks fan worth his salt is "against" Jim Benning. That sounds personal. Even if its strictly professional, framing it as being "against" or "for" him is not the point. We all are FOR him succeeding. The question, if there is one, is rating his results, so far, as leaving us with a glass full or empty. If his positive moves outweigh the disappointing moves, or how much confidence do you have in him based on his past deals. But whatever that poll comes out as, everyone is FOR all his deals to work out in Canucks favour from now on. Miller will have new life and average at least 20 goals a season for his contract. Lind and Gadjovich and other prospects take a leap forward, he can cajole Tryamkin back, etc. etc. I'm more than ready to upgrade my opinion of him. Go Jim Go . .
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Hey, those are nice thoughts. Its true its only a game. Its only sports. But I don't know how one can care about the team but not care what management does. I don't get that. I've been through too many years of Canuck luck. But really, I only get fired up in here. Its not like I talk canucks much outside of the CDC. I'd love to have your kind of fandom. Where management is like a computer generated luck machine. And what players we start with in October is what what the computer spits out for us. So its pointless to even vent about it. Or even think about it, that would be such a relief. I'd reset my focus on something else..... COMPUTER HACKERS!!! ha. Its a sports franchise which is a private business, but its also a public trust. Its a big responsibility, and a big privilege for the Aquilini family that they are granted. Especially if its a hockey team in a Canadian city. And these are not a computer generated decisions, these are all human decisions based on what Aquilini wants, who he hires, or doesn't hire to make final decisions. It is a human run enterprise that is prone to human mistakes. And I have a right to criticize humans! I'm an alien dammit! . .
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I'm a little sick of this excuse honestly. Who acquired those scraps? GM Benning is paid handsomely. He's supposed to be the smartest man in the room. Its his job to have a better and more knowledgeable basis to make these player decisions, and/or who he decides to listen to on his staff than us here on this board. Yes all GMs have misses, but JB track record for trades and free agent signings is abysmal. Based not only on their production on the ice, but their resale value. One has to ask why do other teams players hit the market and are snatched up, but no one wants our plugs? Its partly due to mis-evaluation in the first place, added to that overpayment on money and term in signing them, If Hutton walks away for nothing its just another feather in his cap. The idea that, still in a rebuild, even if its nearing an end according to management, we are STILL giving away draft picks, a number one, to make deals, when we have an overflowing stable of collected acquisitions gathered over 5 years, is frankly unacceptable. Drafting Boeser and Pettersson saved Jim's bacon. I'm also hoping that Tryamkin comes back and proves that later pick a steal. Along with Hughes, these picks make up for missing on Tkachuk and Ehlers as far as his drafting record. I can live with that. Its his trades and free agent work that has really watered down this team. Its going to be very difficult to shed many of these superfluous grinders now that they are in the stable. And ultimately the buck has to stop at JBs desk. I have to hope for the best going forward. But I don't know how anyone can't be a little nervous of any trade or signings he makes, based on his past performance. . .
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I'm optimistic that THIS time, Bennings trade strategy of sell low, buy high is gonna work dammit!!! We don't need no stinkin first and third rounders no more! We gonna make the playoffs and win the Cup next season! All we needed was one more 13 goal scorer to add to our stable of other playoff beasts like Beagle, Sutter, Granlund, Baerchi, Spooner, Eriksson, whom we are lucky are all still here too. Along with the same elite D core. The R word is done! WooHoo! And if he follows through with this MO, Myers will be a Canuck for the next 7 years @ 7 mill cap hit. . I can hardly wait.
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Where's clutch now? Is he still here under another handle? Even he(?) must be astonished that when he started this thread, Burrows was still a third line shut down grinder trying to simply keep that job. And even though the vast majority of CDCers disagreed with clutch about his value and what they saw on the ice, how hard he worked even back them, willing to do whatever the coach asked of him etc...who would have guessed that he'd go from where he was at the beginning of the thread to the end(?) with now Alex headed to the Ring of Honour! Quite the turn of the thread.
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From Eliteprospects.com He can bulldoze through a defenseman on his way to the net, Hockeyprospect.com 2019 A force to be reckoned with each time he is on the ice, his explosive skating and speed help him carry the puck with ease, Future Considerations 2019 He takes powerful strides to get up ice and needs only a few steps to reach his top speed, McKeen's Hockey 2019 He’s a complete winger with all the qualities that you want in a player, Craig Button - TSN 2018 Very strong on the puck.. plays the hard way.. fierce but disciplined.. sound puck management.. possesses an effective move to his forehand, Draftin Europe 2018
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A big chance. Still two years left on his KHL contract as well. Maybe it will entice Tryamkin back. Not sure how I feel about this yet
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Not sure if I am reading this correctly, but I agree! This is an okay signing. Nothing to get excited about. Two years for Eddie works. I'd like to see him have reduced minutes now. Especially if we land a FA defenseman. He chews up minutes. If that's the best compliment he can get then he still deserves what he got. But please, some are deifying him as sacrificing his potential earnings to be loyal to his colours. Maybe its also that he doesn't feel like moving his family, or dealing with whole new linemates, and hates uncertainty and is comfortable here. Some greatly overvalue him, which sadly is what is almost expected when we don't have much in the stable. If the best compliment is that he chews up minutes, that says a lot. I think he's kinda an average defenseman for his age. He's never been physical, but now that he's 33, most D that age are not as physical anymore either. I think reduced minutes can only improve the quality of the time he is on the ice. I hope that happens, (If we land another D). But its almost as if this is getting such a cheer in here mostly because Benning didn't screw it up, this time. That Edler signed for what most agreed would be reasonable...2 years. An average player, who has size but rarely uses it, is slowing down (but that was never a part of his game anyways) but he's a veteran player with a lot of NHL experience, in different situations on the ice. That counts for something. So I'm good with 2 years. Nothing to get excited about though. He's now become a placeholder. I'm much more excited about watching Quinn develop and if Tram will return, or who we can possibly pick up on July 1st.