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Everything posted by kilgore
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Benning says hi Add to that trading away two more 1st round prospects picked by him and buying out another. But he's not worth taking the high dive off the Lions Gate I guess JT is the quarterback we got back?
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[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Toronto Maple Leafs | Mar. 05, 2022
kilgore replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
Exactly. I just don't get some in the media who have a problem with Miller's anger. Its not like he walks into the press room after the game and punches over the mic and throws his chair at Friedman. The game is a live theatrical event. What goes on in the theatre stays in the theatre. Its part of the show ffs. Off the ice he is the consummate professional. Humble guy with thoughtful answers. -
Yeah that cluster&^%& surrounding Luongo still burns. Sorry, I always seem to mix up Hamhuis with Ballard. Its all a blur back then. A well intentioned trade that did not pan out. Probably one of his worst trades TBH, (don't tell HKSR I said that} Understandable though that Gillis wanted to bolster the defense going into our 2010/2011 Stanely Cup run season. After Willie Mitchell went down with a season ending concussion and never re-signed, Bieksa was coming out of an injury depleted season, and Salo was .....Salo. But Ballard was not the best choice, and he also added Grabner to that 1st, which added to the pain. But that one bad trade did not define Gillis's whole term here. Benning sent one of his 1st round picks, McCann to Florida for Gudbranson. He gave away another 1st, (and 2nd) just to take on OEL's 7.26 cap hit for 5 more seasons, mostly to rid himself of three bad contracts he signed previously. And IMO, in the long run, the team would have been better off to wade through this season with LE, Rousell, and Beagle, (maybe even get a little something back for Rousell or Beagle at the TD). OEL is already looking quite ordinary a lot of nights. That cap hit for 5 more seasons will be increasingly more unpopular I fear. And nothing against OEL for convincing someone to pay him that much. But I fear he will be much maligned by fans especially in his final years here. Again, all GMs make bad deals. Its how many, and how often, and how the team looks after all your moves, in multiple areas, how far they went, that should be the deciding factor of how successful a long term GM has been here. Not based on how much worse one perceives the previous GM to be from almost a decade ago.
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What I'm getting at...is that its obvious this is trying to pick one aspect of a GMs job to bash Gillis so Benning doesn't look so incompetent OP. After your failure to convince anyone in your mirror OP on how great a GM Benning was. Again...what's the point? Gillis is long gone and JB had 7.5 years to mold the team into his own. Now Benning is gone, thank gawd, and I don't even know why we have to keep comparing them. Both had their faults, (but only one got us anywhere near the Cup). But even on the trade front for Gillis, Higgins, and LaPierre > Evan Oberg, Joel Perrault, and two third-round draft picks Erhoff > White and Rahimi Horvat > Schneider Markstrom > Luongo and his sucky contract Three of which were key pieces on our Stanley Cup run. That or they were young talent handed to Benning to help bulld a new core around. I'd also ad his FA acquisitions, and finds like Tanev, but I'd get scolded. Hey I'm going to start a threat on a past GM too. Jake Milford....he didn't do so well It was that dastardly Jake Milford who ruined it for Harry Neale, his successor, by trying to build a contender and getting us to our first SCF! What was he thinking? Poor Harry, the cupboards were dry. Among other moves, that dam Milford traded away a second round pick for Gradin Traded moving down 11 spots in the fifth for Richard Brodeur Also in his term he traded for Darcy Rota, and Tiger Williams. A lot of cash traded away too to bolster his roster, which was allowed back then with no cap. This was also a way of depleting the cupboards for the owner and next GM. What a schmo. How could old Harry do anything with that?
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Wow, you just keep digging HKSR So we ended up in much the same position with a depleted prospect pool at the end of JBs tenure. Who was the GM who was supposed to specialize in drafting and developing again? And which one came from the player agent world and relied on his amateur scouting dept to do their jobs? Which GM was building a championship team, won GM of the year and had two Presidential Trophy seasons, and usually had lower picks to choose from? And who still only traded one #1 pick in his term. Which traded two and never came close to a SCF? Which GM managed to convince core players to sign for reasonable deals in order to keep and build that championship level team? And which one signed multiple FAs for over valued and over extended contracts? Many of who had to be bought out. Which GM added Tanev, Bo, and Markstrom to build the next core. Which GM let two of those walk for nothing? Which GM said, "we can turn this team around quickly" to please the owners, and which GM was a realist and first raised the suggestion that the team needed to think of a rebuild as far back as 2013 and was fired for his troubles? But beyond all that, as every GM will have his hits and misses. What the fudge does Gillis have to do with Benning handing Rutherford a nightmare to deal with? Lack of prospects, draft picks, under-performing multiyear contracts maxing out the cap, the OEL contract, and now almost forcing the team to trade away its best player just to get some cap room to improve the team? Its eight @#$%$ years later. But but but but Gillis! lol.
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[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at New Jersey Devils | Feb. 28, 2022
kilgore replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
We got Halaked. Must have been day dreaming of all the ways he was going to spend the extra mil fiddy. Both Myers and Oliver had terrible starts. They weren't prepared for such a young fast team. Maybe not even paired right for this game. Not that Hunt or Schenn had particularily great games either. Thing is, its okay for a D, even a D pair to have a below average game, at least there are 2 other pairs to take up the load if need be. Same goes for forwards. But the goalie position cannot afford a below average game. He has to play at least average to be a legit NHL backup. . His last two starts have been crippling losses. I don't think the team wants to play in front of him again. Who knows if we had gotten the first goal or two, it may have been enough to change the outcome. And bumped Halak's confidence as the game went on. But that didn't happen. -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at New York Rangers | Feb. 27, 2022
kilgore replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
We'll see the colour drain out of the faces of the NJ forwards when they come onto the ice and see Demmers is in goal. -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at New York Rangers | Feb. 27, 2022
kilgore replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
Telling your girlfriend you can't go out for dinner because there's a game on Price: Doghouse, sleeping in the basement Canucks win 5 - 2 Priceless -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at New York Rangers | Feb. 27, 2022
kilgore replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
I thought that was back when they got rid of GM Gonzo and Mr. Green. -
[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at New York Rangers | Feb. 27, 2022
kilgore replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
Anyone else see that close up shot of Demko after the Rangers made the game 4 - 2? Close up on the side of his face. I wanted to see if there was any hint of fear or panic in his eyes. I remember thinking he looked like he was almost bored he was so calm looking. He's not only a large, athletic, quick goalie. He also has the perfect mental demeanour. He's on his way to greatness. -
I picked the first 3 rounds only because they represent the highest percent of players that usually will stick onto an NHL team. And I'm too lazy to go through every low pick coming and going,. JB may have, and probably was, in deficit with later rounds too. I wouldn't be surprised. That is not "changing the narrative". If you want to go through all his picks below 3rd round, and be able to crow how JB may be behind from the first few rounds but is ahead in later rounds by two 6ths and a 7th, or whatever it is, be my guest. lol Its not about IF he traded a player here for a pick somewhere in a future draft. Every GM can boast that. Even the likes of Gillis. Its about how many actual potential prospects he wasn't able to be in on, and add to that how many he did have but gave up on too early, add on how many higher picks were included in trades for bad value in the veteran we got back. An alarming number of which had to be bought out, or moved for a loss or a poison pill contract the other way. Again, its about over all VALUE accumulated or lost, in different areas that make up the total competitive health of the team. Your list of transactions doesn't come near to showing all the results and ramifications. The cause and effect. Bottom line we were judged 29th in prospect development last summer. We are up to the cap limit extending through the next 2 years at least if nothing changes. And will most likely miss the playoffs again. You can cherry pick some list and try and make chicken soup out of chicken #$%# all you want if it makes you feel better I guess. I'm a realist. JR did not land into a easy job to try and get us past JBs incompetence. And start to build value instead of depleting it. But I'm hopeful.
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You are in an argument with Benning. He'd make you wash your mouth out with soap if he ever heard you describe his work in the Sedin's final years as a "rebuild". Bottom line, in the drafting rounds that are relevant, the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, he ended up with less picks than even his minimal allotment as an NHL team over his tenure. He traded away more of these round of picks than he got back. While other teams, more honest with their fans, and themselves frankly, like Detroit have been stocking up, almost doubling their picks. You can laugh all you want at Stevey Y's team now, but he knows its not just about squeaking into the playoffs. Picks like Moritz Seider, Lucas Raymond. And already even his 2021 first round picks Simon Edvinsson and Sebastian Cossa are playing at high levels. Your summary was a bit of a mish mash involving player swaps, and some good, some bad returns. This is about drafting, or acquiring, and developing prospects. Or should be for a "rebuilding" team. For Bennings Canucks, the highlight was a few draft picks he made with Judd Brackett steering the amateur draft department, whom he sanctimoniously fired for his troubles. He hit homeruns with Petey and Hughes. And could also include Demko and Boeser in there. But that's not a GMs only job. Any GM, if they finish at the bottom of the standings multiple years should be able to "build" a group of good young players over a 7 year period. It boils down to VALUE lost over his tenure. Value as interpreted as ...draft picks accumulations....top prospects being developed....trade win/losses....ability to get value back for good players before they leave for nothing.....cap space. All of those elements together determine the value + / - , not in monetary terms, although that is a part of it, but how and what aspects of value, future management can look to as a strong element of their team, that they can take advantage of. One of the difficulties JR has is that there is no areas he can take advantage of with what JB has left him. To the point we may be forced to trade away our best player, just to begin to actually start to realistically build a winner. And waste the services of Bo, and Miller in their primes. And waste the front half of our young core players careers as well, on a delayed rebuild. I'm just praying JR is a magician, and can pull off a miracle, where we can still build a winning team without trading the likes of Miller, Bo, or Boeser and Garland either.
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You mad bro? So Lammikko > 5th overall pick......WIN! Even if you use your own logic, draft = loss, trade = win, it was a draw at best. And this guy may have an argument with you about who's team it was then. I've brought up Wally Buono of the BC Lions before, but how many moves did he make, Geroy Simon being one of the more notable and last of them, when fans like you and I thought it was "Geroy's team"? That we needed to allow him to play out the rest of his career here. We owed him that. When you are a GM of a major sports team, your job is not to bow down to any one or two players, or please fans like you that have already given a couple of vets veto over any moves, its to make the team better going forward.
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The Sedins retired before the Hughes draft, but whatever. Of course JB will get credit for those picks. As he should for big misses too. As well as how well he kept and developed other picks like Forsling, McCann, Dahlen, Tryamkin, But wow. I wish I could have a job review where they just throw out 4 of the first 7 years of my employment. "This team was the Sedin's team up until 2018-19. It's a fact" Talk about star struck. We all loved the Sedins, But they did not own the team. So you are now implying that not only was JB cowering to the owners pressure of wanting a playoff team every season, but he was also handcuffed by the wishes of two players on the team as well? This is the type of leadership to praise? So....5th overall draft pick, that was reported was insisted on by Benning, when a lot of his amateur scouts....and the rest of the hockey world TBH....were assuming he'd pick Tkachuk. He picked for position over BPA. Then he carried OJ for years. Through injury and lackluster play when he did play. And he finally trades him for at least a shot in the dark. (Lammikko was a -8 and 5 points last season.) Yaaaah It worked out that he got a better return than the player that Juolevi turned into. He found a decent third line center. Good for JB. I love Lammy, but I'd rather have another 5th overall. To call that a win, in the grand scheme of things, is a bit of a stretch. But I guess as long as you only see JBs last 3 years as relevant, and compare this to his other moves, its one of his biggest wins!