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Everything posted by DownUndaCanuck
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We have a glorious opportunity to do a crash fast rebuild. We have a young set of Petey, Hughes, Podkolzin, Hoglander, Rathbone and Lekker who are all in their early 20s (and Lekk who's a teenager). Build around them. Everyone 25-32 can go. Luckily we have some of the league's best talents in their prime. We also have obviously weighty contracts who will be hard to move. Bo can fetch us a bucket load. Miller could have scored us a huge load last year, maybe even some now still. Garland and Boeser are very tradeable. Schenn is a great piece. Kuzmenko may be the most perfect asset for a contender to acquire. Then there's guys like OEL and Myers who will be too tough to move (although there's interest for Myers), as will injured Pearson. Our 4th line aren't worth anything for decent teams, and Bear probably isn't worth trading as we need someone to ride out the tank anyway. I'd do something like this for a rebuild (not retool): 1) Bo to a contender for young player + top prospect + 1st. We'd likely have to take cap back to make it work though. Has to be a C and defenceman. 2) Miller for a prospect + 1st. Again, need a team with cap coming off the books next year or take some cap back. 3) Boeser and Garland can fetch us a couple of 2nd round picks easily, if not some B grade prospects. 4) Kuzmenko surely nabs us a 1st, no need for cap back, maybe a conditional 2nd or 3rd if he resigns with them? 5) Schenn is worth a 2nd for sure. Suddenly we've acquired say a top young defenceman, two A grade prospects, a couple of B grade prospects, three 1sts and a 2nd. Plus with all that cap space I'd happily pull an Arizona for a year or two and eat other team's bad contracts for a first or second round pick and tank hard for the end of this year and we'll likely suck again next season. Won't take long then before the kids are up and running, then in 2-3 years we start complementing our kids with UFAs or trades to get them competitive and away we go.
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We need D. I'd take Ryker Evans, former 2nd round pick LD puck mover. Borgen would fit better if we want to retool and win next year, but if we want more of a rebuild: Bo + Schenn for Wright + Evans Of course cap is an issue, we have to take at least 5M back. Is Schwartz a cap dump yet (5M, 30+, 40-50pt pace)?
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(Discussion) Is it just me?
DownUndaCanuck replied to nameci's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
They did the same with Miller which was a key reason why Lou pulled out in NYI, otherwise they could have discussed an extension and he'd likely be moved. Instead, the prevented this so Allvin could sign him maybe a bit cheaper. Got made to look the fool in the Miller move. I get it for Bo though, if we can resign him we should try our best, but it was so stupid with Miller because he had a year left on his contract, wasn't an essential move last year and now we're shackled with an 8M 3rd line winger. -
[PGT] Edmonton Oilers at Vancouver Canucks | Jan. 21, 2023
DownUndaCanuck replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
We have to win 15 games in a row to be on par with the wild card spot points %. 36 games to go, we'd have to win 15 games to break even, then continue playing at a 0.58 clip. In 21 games left that would mean winning 12 of them. So we have to win 27-28 of the final 36 games. 27-7-2 LOL For reference, Boston has played that well all season, 2nd place Carolina is maybe a touch behind that. Yeah good luck Tocchet -
[PGT] Edmonton Oilers at Vancouver Canucks | Jan. 21, 2023
DownUndaCanuck replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
Good luck to Tocchet, going in to a city where the fans and players loved Bruce, and he looks like a much less jovial guy than BB. Don't know how he's going to win over the team, especially since they're not going to be winning. Question is, if they play the same for the rest of the season if not worse, do we fire Tocchet in the off-season? -
Mid-season coaching changes reek of desperation and worked well for us last year, but too little too late. The same again this year. If we realistically wanted to make a playoff run it should have happened at the Christmas break or earlier when we were still hovering around .500. Now we've sunk so hard it's obviously impossible. This team needed a trade last off-season, they didn't do it. If they wanted a coaching change (wrong move IMO but whatever) then it should have happened when we were a .500 team before the difficult road trip but management failed us again. Now the season is wasted there's no point making the change now, it might as well happen in the offseason with a bunch of changes. We're essentially playing for jobs, a pick and statistics now so why bother? Just going to make it seem like we're preparing for next year which will really weigh on everyone.
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Edit- Rick Tocchet Expected To Be Next Head Coach
DownUndaCanuck replied to BertaNuck's topic in Canucks Talk
Foote and Gonchar? Loved them as players, maybe they can bring some defensive structure to our team but what's their coaching history? We had no idea how good we had it with AV as head and Rick Bowness as assistant. Every team Bowness has been on instantly becomes a contender, look at the path he's carved out. IMO best, most underrated coach in the business. I'm not a fan of Tocchet at all but Foote and Gonch could be fun. -
[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks
DownUndaCanuck replied to HOFsedins's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
The longer this goes on the happier I am for Bo to be leaving this organisation and play some real hockey with a playoff team, he deserves it. If we're in this same position in 5 years time you'd say the same about Petey and Hughes. Hope Schenn goes with him, what a package that'd be for a playoff team for 6M. Would get any contender over the hump. -
[Rumour] Canucks Getting Calls on Luke Schenn
DownUndaCanuck replied to Warhippy's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Starting to think that Schenn is as good as gone too. Standing up to the media to say how management have mis-treated Bruce, calling out how bad we're playing and being honest - JR won't like that. In all fairness he's pretty replaceable on ice but we will lack some serious leadership losing Bo, Schenn and BB. Our leadership team will pretty much be Miller and OEL and Myers... -
[PGT] Edmonton Oilers at Vancouver Canucks | Jan. 21, 2023
DownUndaCanuck replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
Amazing how everyone has turned on management. We've never had a more hated boss. I remember around 10 years ago everyone hated FA (think he was bood coming on the ice once?), but no one ever really hated guys like Nonis or Gillis or even JB. Chubby old dull guys but they never made any disrespectful moves like this to fan favourites because they knew they'd be crucified for it. We knew with JR coming in there'd be a blow up and change of this team but we were hoping it'd be our players (specifically, the bad ones) and not two of the best people in the organization. -
[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks
DownUndaCanuck replied to HOFsedins's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Boston fans saying they'd do Lysell + 1st + Mike Reilly for Bo. Yikes. -
[Proposal]Van- Boston
DownUndaCanuck replied to RetroCanuck's topic in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
If we want to win and be a playoff team ASAP (next year), then this makes sense: Horvat + Schenn for Carlo + Zacha (I know, just signed) + 1st (because it's basically a 2nd). -
I think he goes as a rental, the team go on a decent playoff run and he signs there in the off-season. From what it sounds like so far, I think it's Carolina. I think they'd give us a pretty average offer though. NJD or Detroit would surely have a sweeter deal prospect-wise. If we could snag one of their top-2 elite defensive prospects for Bo I'd be happy. Morrow is probably the worst defenceman we could come away with from this whole situation.
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Edit- Rick Tocchet Expected To Be Next Head Coach
DownUndaCanuck replied to BertaNuck's topic in Canucks Talk
Nuts to hear he beat Babcock for the job...I know Babcock has had his time in the sun but also been very questionable, but boy would that have been an interesting hire and suddenly we would have had a couple of great coaches behind our bench - AV, Torts, Babcock and BB. Obviously some are more heroic than others... Tocchet is not one of them though. He will not save this team, we'll more or less be the same as we are now under Bruce. This isn't a coaching problem, it's not a systems problem. It's obviously a defensive personnel problem and not much else. Obviously there are cap issues and lack of prospects, but the on-ice product is suffering right now because of lack of goaltending and defence. Simple as that, nothing more, nothing less. If we had even average Demko and 1 top-4 defenceman we'd be a playoff team (much better than Edmonton and Calgary bouncing up and down). But we don't, instead we have Carolina's 7th man in Bear as our top RD, OEL-Myers weighing us down and two AHL goalies. -
This is just the type of player Boeser is. If that was Mikheyev he'd crash the net. If it was Kuzmenko he'd float into the slot waiting for a rebound. Boeser is and always will be a bit of a perimeter player, but unlike some of the others he does have pretty elite offensive IQ, a great shot obviously (which we have missed recently) but more and more he's becoming quite a good passer of the puck. Sadly he'll never have the drive that say Mikheyev has, but arguably has more skill/talent offensively. Pro's and con's from Brock's game.
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Cole Caufield to miss rest of reason
DownUndaCanuck replied to MeanSeanBean's topic in General Hockey Discussion
Sad to see but that's how you tank - write him off for the year. Wonder if we'll do the same with Demko now... -
[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks
DownUndaCanuck replied to HOFsedins's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Sadly the first is basically a 2nd rounder anyway, Carolina will surely be picking 30-32 OA so not that exciting. I really hope there's a better package out there, surely Detroit or Boston can beat that with some stacked Detroit prospects. Edvinsson or Wallinder + would be nice. -
Pacioretty's future in question?
DownUndaCanuck replied to Coconuts's topic in General Hockey Discussion
There's certainly a monster deal there possibly, Bo + Brock would make sense for them. We'd need a LOT coming back though just to make cap work. Do they dare dump their captain Staal? Bo + Brock for Staal + KK + Morrow + 1st + 2nd Scraps but starts a solid rebuild or very young retool -
Me too - as long as they make the right moves and create a winning team. So far they're doing things the rough, rude way and we've got a losing team with even worse contracts than when JB left, not in a playoff spot and even less prospects and picks than when they started... But I'll hold my final judgement of them until we see what they do with Bo and Brock.
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[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks
DownUndaCanuck replied to HOFsedins's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Sounds like Carolina has the most concrete offer. Bo for KK + Morrow + 2nd? Doubt we'd get a first as well. I'd take that to be honest. Morrow is still relatively unproven but 20yo RD putting up some nice numbers as a junior, will need at least a year to cook in the AHL. Problem is, he could be another Rathbone-like project - former 2nd rounder, not had a shot yet in the NHL. It'd suck if we just got a 3C 30-40 point center in KK and a couple of 2nd rounder prospects for Bo so you'd hope they give is a first too because there are far better RDs out there surely. -
Don't agree with the method but look if we're a contender in 5 years, fair play, people will forget about Bruce. Right now though, and so far, this management has done nothing but Ls across the board. I know we gave JB almost a decade and have turned on this management within a year, so have to be patient, but there are nicer ways of doing the business they're doing.
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3-9 since Christmas, yikes, sums up the season. Can't wait to see how bad this team is under Tocchet, maybe it is a stealth tank move? No way we suddenly get wind and start playing well, the boys aren't going to want to battle the way they did for Bruce. Hopefully ownership see this mess and fire JR and PA in the offseason for shaming the Canucks franchise name across the league. Who would want to come to work here after this?
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Edit- Rick Tocchet Expected To Be Next Head Coach
DownUndaCanuck replied to BertaNuck's topic in Canucks Talk
Absolutely, I haven't seen something like this before this publicly talked about, and it couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Absolutely disgusting treatment of their staff. I wonder who's to blame, it's probably media to an extent but obviously management are involved and maybe ownership a bit. This does reek a bit of JR to be honest, I doubt Allvin is pulling these strings here. -
6th last in the league with a PPG defenceman, 100pt player in Petey, 99pt Miller last year and Bo scoring at a 60 goal rate, 11th best PP and 13th most goals for is just insane. Chuck a couple of two top-4 D men into this lineup and we're a contender IMO but of course they don't just appear. Even if we traded two forwards for two defencemen, we'd lose some offence and our overall quality would surely drop. A Bo for 3C and RD would fix a lot of problems and maybe if we had made it sooner in the year, we could have changed things sooner, but it's too late now to even find out now. They have to be thinking pure tank now and get the best possible 1st rounder they can. Can we contend for the playoffs next year? Absolutely, but only if we acquire these top-4 defencemen. I worry Myers and OEL will be too hard to move, Bear will get a nice deal and there's our top-4 : exactly the same as it is right now. A young RD from a Bo trade would go a long way. Bo + Schenn for Chytil + Schneider Boeser for Monahan Garland for 2nd, then use that 2nd to flip Myers We essentially wipe out a 2nd line, gain two middle-6 centers, a top young RD and a bucket of cap space. Run with Schneider and Bear as our RDs next year.
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I know Dumba and Severson are far from elite and make a lot of sloppy Myers-like plays, but I'd take them both right now for a couple of our wingers if they're going. Boeser for Dumba, Miller for Severson Would fix a lot of our current problems (and probably make some new ones), but we'd be better off.